Conquest Feedback and Upcoming Changes

[Andryah]

Unbelievable. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

 

You said:

 

 

So I responded and tried to produce adequate reason. And now because I've successfully done that, you are going to twist it around to make it about me wanting Bioware to cater to me personally. Nope, that's not what I said at all. I met your challenge.

 

You asked for examples of making alt exclusion hurt small guilds. I gave them to you. You ignored that reasoned response and instead are going for the throat grab because I responded to your request directly and met your challenge.

 

Well let me stop you right there. Back on /ignore you go.

 

.

 

Probably simpler to just state the following....

 

To olagatonjedi: they screwed up the release of Conquests, even if you only measure it by what they stated in advance. Further, they are following exactly the same methodology they did with the release of GC ---> slow walking any changes and only making changes they want to make rather then simply incorporating any and all changes that are broadly endorsed in player discussions. Note: I am not weighing in on how much feedback they should actually incorporate.. only noting that this is a repeat behavior of how they handled GC.

 

I get that many people simply do not like things changed on them once they are accustomed to them and comfortable to them... but the core issue here once again is the studio promised one thing and delivered something completely different..... regardless of each players views as to if Conquest actually needed changes or not.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Andryah

[Lhancelot]

Ok, so stop right there. If those 30 individual crafters had 8x level 50 companions, they would still have an advantage, and an even more significant one than you and/or your guild.

 

Please correct me if Im wrong, but with your example, you want BW to balance conquest so 1 person to have the ability to produce the equivalent of 30 people?

 

What stops the 30 people from crafting and working as hard as the one? If they put in half the work the one does, they easily would produce more if they wanted.

 

The old system enabled people willing to do the work a way to compete with larger less productive guilds. What is so hard to understand here?

 

how is it a bad thing to have the flexibility and option to work 10 times harder and reap the benefits of that work?

 

Personally I would never do it, but some gamers like this style of personal grind in games and if it encourages more player participation then it's a win imo.

[Elliraen]

Unbelievable. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

 

You got trolled hard.

[DarthSpuds]

I get that many people simply do not like things changed on them once they are accustomed to them and comfortable to them... but the core issue here once again is the studio promised one thing and delivered something completely different..... regardless of each players views as to if Conquest actually needed changes or not.

 

Exactly.

 

By their own stated goals they failed - they delivered the exact opposite of what they said they intended to deliver.

 

All The Best

[Lyshar]

So your guild was able to acquire goals set up for the best of the best without having adequate numbers and without even having the right bonuses in place (strongholds).

 

Based on that way of thinking, people with green gear should be doing NIM content without buffs.

 

A change was merited just from your guild being an example of what was wrong with the system. Conquest is an endgame activity and a competition of sorts. Why shouldnt it be designed and implemented as one?

 

Just STOP!

 

Conquest isn't an endgame activity, it was introduced to reinvigorate old content, to help save the queues, and it did. They changed it as they say to balance it and give smaller guilds a chance. If they wanted to revamp it to become endgame content they should have started by saying that, since they did not say that people don't have to assume so. Most people are not mind readers, and I highly doubt you are, and if you are you should just prove it and stop spouting nonsense.

 

From the start the game was friendly towards casuals, and these past few years things only got dumbed down ad nauseam, removing the need for people to spend much time and removing the need for tactics when you could simply rush to max level using only the basic attack! No need to log in daily, spend hours on end, no need to even learn your class & spec. Converting the casual system to a hardcore one makes absolutely no sense.

 

But then they did with Gods of the Machine what looked like an attempt to return veteran opsers, a failed attempt. I was part of such a guild, that guild died a few years ago now. Too long there was nothing new to do for the majority of them. So BW finally added a new operation and the few people that still ran progression ops beat Izax on vet mode not long after it went live, the failed conquest didn't even activate when they were bragging about the failure of this supposedly difficult boss that fell so easilly.

 

So I suppose you could be right in that BW wanted to cater to the elitists, but then they would have advertised it as such, and they would have failed as well. You can't cater to include goldfish and then dump those goldfish in a shark tank. THEY WILL JUMP OUT OF THE TANK PREFERRING TO SUFFOCATE OVER BEING EATEN ALIVE.

 

So my final suggestion to BW/EA, not that they read this... Stop catering to a player base you already scared off many years ago.Fot your next game pick a target audience and stick with it to the end so you can give quality, assuming EA will let you.

[KendraP]

What stops the 30 people from crafting and working as hard as the one? If they put in half the work the one does, they easily would produce more if they wanted.

 

The old system enabled people willing to do the work a way to compete with larger less productive guilds. What is so hard to understand here?

 

how is it a bad thing to have the flexibility and option to work 10 times harder and reap the benefits of that work?

 

Personally I would never do it, but some gamers like this style of personal grind in games and if it encourages more player participation then it's a win imo.

 

Hear hear! Again, im prinarily a PvPer and find grinding crafting msts (or crafting in general) to be incredibly dull and a snoozefest.

 

But that was the advantage of the old system - everyone had a way to contribute.

[Savej]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. The person you are responding to doesn't actively participate in conquest, pvp, or much pve other to enjoy RP. Which is fine however not sure how or why they are posting on something that doesn't really affect their game play.

 

I along with the other two to four players in my guild that actively hit conquest on multiple toons prior to 5.8 are no longer and will no longer participate in conquest. We are doing the activities and playing the game the way we like. However by doing so that means we play much less and are playing and paying more money to other companies.

 

If that was the overall goal of this change than congrats.

 

I'm in the same boat. I used to hit conquests on 2 or 4 characters a week without trying or bothering with crafting. I was thinking I might play a little harder on the new system if it rewarded other activities as they said it would and if rewards were more interesting. The new system is still a step down from my perspective from where we were in the old system.

[DarthSpuds]

Just STOP!

 

DNFTT

 

My forum experience has improved immeasurably since I put him on ignore.

 

 

All The Best

[Krazhez]

@Eric, @Keith

 

Are you guys even still reading this thread? The second thread of nearly 80 pages of feedback, some of it very helpful, some of it not... but almost no word from any of you guys. Should we bother?

 

To my fellow posters: The only replies to this I'm interested in are from those that I addressed at the top. Thanks.

 

Swtor central is doing an interview with Musco and Boyd, tomorrow at 4pm cst. He said he will ask them about conquest.

 

[Lhancelot]

Hear hear! Again, im prinarily a PvPer and find grinding crafting msts (or crafting in general) to be incredibly dull and a snoozefest.

 

But that was the advantage of the old system - everyone had a way to contribute.

 

Yeah that's the best way to put it. It enabled everyone a way to contribute using different methods. I too PVP, yet recognize its good to give players the opportunity to play the way they want.

[PennyAnn]

Swtor central is doing an interview with Musco and Boyd, tomorrow at 4pm cst. He said he will ask them about conquest.

 

 

Thank you for the heads up on this! I will be watching for sure.

[Ibokagain]

This was only possible on crafting weeks anyway and if thats how she wants to cap her toons and has fun doing it, why not? She took the time to level and equip those toons for the purpose and its her resources being dumped into it. Again, how does that hurt your ability to have fun in any way?

 

That person is trolling, they haven't added one substantially ounce of positive feedback. All they continue to do is belittle and try to rile up folks, just ignore them, you'll be much better off.

 

Everyone pays for this game, if you like the changes great offer some legitimate feedback on how you are capping and how many toons. For those that don't like the changes do the same minus the capping of tons part.

 

Hopefully the good feedback and suggestions made will actually get taken into account and fixed before irreparable damage is done.

[HKtheindomitable]

Let me try to help you out here, as you obviously haven't done much Conquesting (based on assumptions that you've made in your posts):

 

The "cap" is the personal rewards quota per week. "Capping a character" means reaching your personal goal with that character. Many were able to "cap" or reach their personal goal with as many alts as they wanted to work for, and now you are lucky to reach "cap" with one main and possibly one or two alts, and that's if you're playing the game 80 hours a week (exaggeration, but not by much).

 

In the former system, there were always one-time crafting objectives, but then there were weeks that were focused heavily on crafting and saw most of those objectives become repeatable. Just as there were weeks when PvP was the focus, and many added objectives gave people who focused on that type of play a better shot at hitting their conquest goals. In all conquest weeks, the ability to hit personal goal was infinitely easier on alt characters than it is now, no matter what the objective "theme" or focus was.

 

The ability of a small guild to get alts through the system and complete their goals is imperative to competing with large guilds who rely on a larger number of individual legacies putting up points. Without being able to mimic the "large guild" effect of having so many individual legacies by using alts, smaller guilds are out of the loop and always will be. It took something that allowed them to compete for planet conquers and titles sometimes, and turned it into never.

 

Yes, those that meet the personal goal and also have their guild meet the guild goal have access to rewards without having to be in the top 10. However, fewer guilds are hitting the guild goal and fewer members of the guilds are hitting their personal goals due to current restrictions and low point yields such that fewer people are earning rewards now than ever in the conquest system.

 

The current design sees fewer people earning rewards, small guilds unable to compete for planet titles at all, and players being encouraged to play the game less than they were before due to the fact that it is statistically impossible to make any headway on more than a couple of characters in conquest. None of this is good for the game in general, even if you don't participate in conquest or care about it.

 

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I appreciate the clarification.

 

I never denied any of that to be untrue. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I was. The points for guilds are a problem and need to be fleshed or ironed, or whatever you want to call it, out. Same with personal things. My question for KendraP was regarding whatever they were mentioning. I asked because I felt they were referring to something different.

 

Now that it's deployed on a mass scale and not their teeny tiny small scale testing area, they can better balance out and refine things. What seemed good on a small scale, is clearly not as good on the large scale.

 

There are also quite a few bugs that exist. Until they say what is and isn't a bug, I'm withholding judgement, and giving the benefit of the doubt.

Edited March 29, 2018 by HKtheindomitable
Incorrect user referenced.

[HKtheindomitable]

What disturbs me far more is that big guilds arre now happily invading small planets, leaving the big planets to either the MEGA-guilds AND the SMALL guilds.

 

This is a big issue too. I get letting a guild go for a smaller yield if they don't want to go all-out, but when they're too much for smaller guilds, or don't have a sense of "fair-play"... it causes trouble.

[PennyAnn]

You got trolled hard.

 

I know. I tried. But lesson learned.

[olagatonjedi]

People like flexibility, options, and choices in games. This is called fun. Adding restrictions in a game to the point it deters people from playing it is called a failure. Games are supposed to be fun.

 

Hope that helps.

All games start with restrictions. It's an integral part of balance and challenge. I'm not sure what point you are making

[KendraP]

All games start with restrictions. It's an integral part of balance and challenge. I'm not sure what point you are making

 

The point that people enjoy playjng for different reasons and trying to artificially force people to play differently pisses off paying customers?

 

I rhink thats rather obvious.

Edited March 29, 2018 by KendraP

[olagatonjedi]

You tend to like to speak as if you are a developer yourself and know their intentions/desires. They never once said anything about smaller guilds achieving goals in conquest being a problem. In fact, much of the reworked system was to encourage more competition among smaller guilds, and give them more opportunity to do so.

 

Evidence of their intention to do this is given here (you don't have to take my word for it):

As has been stated, and included in your link, the intention was to encourage competition between like-sized guilds. Very plainly, they did not want a guild of 5 to be able to compete on the same level as a guild of 100, which pretty much references your post about being able to singlehandedly compete against 30 crafters (from your other post).

 

Now keep in mind they also never, ever stated or promised that small guilds would never have to go against large guilds. The incentive for large guilds is to go for large yields, but its not a guarantee they will go after it. It's each guilds decision.

 

I tend to view it as the PVP system - you have 3 systems in place, with different rewards for open pvp, solo, and team. When queuing, skilled players have incentive to play team, solo, or 8m. They are encouraged to participate in the more rewarding ones, but its ultimately their decision. And their decision can affect the competition, just like conquest.

 

Further, when it became an overwhelming part of the feedback and their goal (as stated above) was in fact not being met, they discussed changes to make it more in line with their intention:

I would hope they are interested in monitoring it and making appropriate changes. But I think you are getting ahead of yourself, because they arent making certain adjustments yet, and may never adjust certain parts of it.

 

So as much as you seem to want to claim that you know exactly why they did what they did to the conquest system, the developers own words about their intent behind some of the changes speak the opposite of your points.

If you have ever read 99% of my posts, I deal with possible reasons, not necessarily concrete reasons (mainly because we rarely receive concrete reasons from BW). I don't ever claim I know the reason, but I do choose to stay open-minded about possible reasons.

[olagatonjedi]

Unbelievable. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

 

You said:

 

 

So I responded and tried to produce adequate reason. And now because I've successfully done that, you are going to twist it around to make it about me wanting Bioware to cater to me personally. Nope, that's not what I said at all. I met your challenge.

 

You asked for examples of making alt exclusion hurt small guilds. I gave them to you. You ignored that reasoned response and instead are going for the throat grab because I responded to your request directly and met your challenge.

 

Well let me stop you right there. Back on /ignore you go.

 

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I asked for something that small guilds used that large guilds couldn't, and also that would affect a small guild more substantially than a large guild. I think you misinterpreted what I was asking, so I have clarified it for you.

[olagatonjedi]

This was only possible on crafting weeks anyway and if thats how she wants to cap her toons and has fun doing it, why not? She took the time to level and equip those toons for the purpose and its her resources being dumped into it. Again, how does that hurt your ability to have fun in any way?

It doesnt hurt me in the slightest. It hurts the game, as communuty-wide feedback has verbalized. And no, its not exclusive to crafting, because of the other activities she could do on her alts as well. Again, this isnt exclusive to her.

[olagatonjedi]

What stops the 30 people from crafting and working as hard as the one? If they put in half the work the one does, they easily would produce more if they wanted.

 

The old system enabled people willing to do the work a way to compete with larger less productive guilds. What is so hard to understand here?

 

how is it a bad thing to have the flexibility and option to work 10 times harder and reap the benefits of that work?

 

Personally I would never do it, but some gamers like this style of personal grind in games and if it encourages more player participation then it's a win imo.

The 30 decided to join a larger guild to allow for that. The solo artist chose not to.

 

It comes down to balance. Some standard had to be established to build a better system. Perhaps BW didnt want 1 person to be able to replicate the same as 30 people.

 

I mean, there are restrictions on HIM content that prevents 4 people from being able to clear content just because they are willing to work harder.

[olagatonjedi]

Just STOP!

 

Conquest isn't an endgame activity, it was introduced to reinvigorate old content, to help save the queues, and it did.

Just stop right there. Where had BW stated this was the intention of Conquest? Also, where have they claimed it isn't intended to be difficult to accomplish?

[olagatonjedi]

The point that people enjoy playjng for different reasons and trying to artificially force people to play differently pisses off paying customers?

 

I rhink thats rather obvious.

People have been playing with restrictions this whole time. Again, what point is being made? People are restricted in lots of areas and still have fun.

[KendraP]

The 30 decided to join a larger guild to allow for that. The solo artist chose not to.

 

It comes down to balance. Some standard had to be established to build a better system. Perhaps BW didnt want 1 person to be able to replicate the same as 30 people.

 

I mean, there are restrictions on HIM content that prevents 4 people from being able to clear content just because they are willing to work harder.

 

I think we are at a paychological impasse. I see no reason jer capping all 30 of her toons hurts the game. Or how my formerly capping 10 did. Its certainly not contributing to inflation as i am hardly rich from doing conquest.

 

If their goal was to encourage guilds to go for larger reward planets they failed miserably as thr rewards arent worth the effort.the larger guilds already have an advantage- sheer numbers. They dont need the additional help provided by the alt nerfs.

 

Again, what exactly is the problem with capping multiple toons? How is it unbalanced in any way? How was it hurting the gsme? I just dont see it. Again, maybe im being purposefully blind.

Edited March 29, 2018 by KendraP

[olagatonjedi]

I think we are at a paychological impasse. I see no reason jer capping all 30 of her toons hurts the game. Or how my formerly capping 10 did. Its certainly not contributing to inflation as i am hardly rich from doing conquest.

 

If their goal was to encourage guilds to go for larger reward planets they failed miserably as thr rewards arent worth the effort.the larger guilds already have an advantage- sheer numbers. They dont need the additional help provided by the alt nerfs.

 

Again, what exactly is the problem with capping multiple toons? How is it unbalanced in any way? How was it hurting the gsme? I just dont see it. Again, maybe im being purposefully blind.

It's balancing to the least common denominator.

 

If you dont agree, please explain how you would balance a system where some people have only 1 toon, and others have 30 toons?

 

Im truly curious.

Edited March 29, 2018 by olagatonjedi