Bull story vs bull class

[Isnogut]

Hello there,

the title is just a synoyme for the personal impression of "good class, but crappy classtory", or "crappy class but interesting story".

 

This thread is about your personal experiences in the game with those two particular issues. Companion stories overall fit into the "good class, crappy story" as well.

 

I got this idea whiel FINALLY getting the nerv to play the imperial agent. Dear lord! I thought I'd rather have picked out my eyes than playing this storyplot. It is awfull! Simply awfull! Until I've played the agent story I always thought the trooper was bad. But enough ranting. I just want to give a overall overview:

 

Companions:

Caliyo - dhat bich! I was the happiest man alive, at the point she was arrested before Corellia. And I was devastated, when she rejoined the crew. *** man!

Vector - he's a strange one. His story is also weird. But in combination with Doc Loken, it is ok-ish.

Skorpio - Yeah, right, like an Operative of the agents caliber is really going to revive her and add her as a crew member. Also he is really going to give her access to the entire imperial network. *** man!

 

Storyplots:

The Darth Jadus complot. ...yeah, how genious of him letting one of the imperial ciphers solve his plan. It's not like those guys are trained to be extreme professional. IMHO this decision was extremely dumb of Jadus.

 

The doubleagent complot. Yeah, kinda makes you hate thourougly the Reps. By controlling Cipher 9 through his mindprogramming, it is very likely he is going to free himself and erase anything and anyone who leads to the fact, that he was programmed. So I did. Also, Jedi scum has to die!

 

The star...whatsoever complot. I always thought Hunter is that haty guy. That ubercounteragent. The real nemessis... He is just a characterless dick. His motives did not polarised me in any kind.

Strangest mission was on Voss, the glowing man... what's all about? You go in there, get to find out ho this guy is and ... you are done. Why the heck was he even there for real? Just to delay the alliance between Voss and one of the major parties? Realy? Just for that? This was the BIG plot? At some point I got the message, "return to your ship", wondered why do I got that message in the "middle of the mission", just to realise, that's it, this was the mission.

 

Overall, the entire imperial agent story was awfull!

However the Agent classes are quite interesting to play for me.

[Mubrak]

The big plot was that the Star Cabal led both sides to mutual destuction, blocking all paths that might have given one side an advantage. The ultimate goal was that the force users of both sides wipe out each other in one final clash. Which side "wins" the war doesn't matter to the conspirators, as long as the new society that emerges from the ashes is free of the force user's tyranny.

 

In that new world, the simple man would be free to live his life under the thumbs of a few obscenely rich cosmocrats.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Mubrak

[bluehufsa]

I liked JC story, but some comps do not fit in it, not at all :

 

- Qizen Fess: why on Earth would i want to recruit a crocodile when i get much better options, for example Nalen Raloch?

- Tharan Cedrax/Holiday : that dude is a gambler & scammer, loves a holographic woman, again not really fit to join a Jedi, plus hitting on Nadia even if she's a Jedi Order Padawan and not supposed to get involved in promiscuous relationships

- Felix Iresso : the dude has an entire Sith archive in his head, shouldn't he be at a medical facility on Coruscant ? we all know the Sith mumbo-jumbo is dangerous.

 

The only two comps from JC i like and believe they make sense are :

 

- Nadia Grell, because she's an untrained force sensitive and needs someone to help her master her abilities

- Zenith : he has the skills and motivation to fight against the Empire, not to mention maturity.

Edited March 22, 2018 by bluehufsa

[Ardrossan]

The big plot was that the Star Cabal led both sides to mutual destuction, blocking all paths that might have given one side an advantage. The ultimate goal was that the force users of both sides wipe out each other in one final clash. Which side "wins" the war doesn't matter to the conspirators, as long as the new society that emerges from the ashes is free of the force user's tyranny.

 

In that new world, the simple man would be free to live his life under the thumbs of a few obscenely rich cosmocrats.

 

I wish they'd done more with that one. I would much rather have had the Star Cabal [a surviving faction maybe] show up in KOTET instead of the Genoharadan. Their motives make more sense than the latter, which is now a disposable cultist/villain group. I'd also liked to have seen more of the backstory, since the conspiracy goes back presumably to The Great Hyperspace War, which means they were around for KOTOR 1 and 2. I'd also liked to have seen when exactly

they acquired SCORPIO, and how

.

 

I thought the inquisitor story was pretty dumb, but the class mechanics were interesting. Conversely, I like the SW story but I don't really like mDPS.

[grania]

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the agent OP but I laughed because I felt the same way about Kaliyo. What a tease when she's taken away

 

I thought the inquisitor story was pretty dumb, but the class mechanics were interesting. Conversely, I like the SW story but I don't really like mDPS.

 

I wasn't always a melee type, but figured what the heck, mobs are always up in my face anyway, what's the point of ranged?

 

Sometimes I really enjoy playing the sage though, it feels very smooth to me. But I had to play a dark sided one with an elaborate headcanon to make the story bearable.

Edited March 22, 2018 by grania

[SithKoriandr]

Hate the Reps? For taking advantage of what the Imps did?

 

Pffft. What the Reps did was at least understandable.

 

What the Imperials did to the agent, "brainwash or kill" for taking care of the mess a Dark Council member made and basically just doing their job.

 

It's at that point, no agent should really be "YAY! EMPIRE!" imo. You were betrayed by your own side. Which makes sense, as that's all the Sith do, when they stick to their code.

[Isnogut]

I'm rather disapointed in some outcomes, especially when it came to the agent storyline.

So Cipher was indoctrinated and yada-yada by the imperials. Old news. He knew, he was redesigned to fit the needs of his missions. That indoctrination did not made me personally upset. That's the kind of thing Imperials would do to their personel. This means for at lerast 30-40 generations this is happening daily. This should not bother Cipher at all.

 

What I didn't take well, was the fact, that the so called good guys not even tried to win Cipher over, but directly misused his imdoctrination. What positive motivation would a imperial superkiller operative have to change sides with people who have absolutely no interest in him. As as imperial at least he know he is just a pawn. - This fact does not mean, that he has to remain a pawn.

 

Voss and Star Cabal tricks. Come on guys, it took me 30 seconds into the mission briefing to know what they are actually up to. But I thought, it has to have a deeper understanding. This is exactly why I disliked this particular planetary storyline. It is obvious and dull.

Anyways, enough about the imperial agent.

 

Another class storyplot I disliked, yet loved both specialised classes was the trooper. In very short, the best way to get passed the story is always the "Yes, Sir!"/"No, Sir!" answer. Everything else is so absolutely nontypical to a military surounding. The trooper is not a soldier per se, but only a loose gun of the republic.

 

Aside from that, both subclasses do really give me the impression of playing a genuine (Clone)Tropper in Star Wars. They got the look, they got the skills. Man, when I unwrap one of my trooper alts, I have the impression there is quite litte I can not handle.

 

Another thing I had a bit of a problem was the Sith Warrior. First of all, I think this is one of the most intense storyplots in the game. But the flaw is, you can only feel the entire impact and the connection to the Emperor during the Ziost incident. If you ask me, this planetary stroyplot peaks up the SW storyplot massively. Since this is actually not necessarily to be played the SW looses its momentum. Basically most of the players had never took the opportunity to understadnd the true motivation of the class, because there is acutally no need in playing through Ziost.

[Suzsi]

I love playing a smuggler, duel pistols etc

Hate the class story though.

 

Corso and Risha are nice but just not my favs as far as comps or LIs go and the story itself is pretty boring so I never really end playing a smug. Maybe ill rush one through during double xp one day to romance Theron and see if that helps.

 

I love the game playmof the consular, the story and the VA.

 

I love playing a sent but the class story for JK is a little too same old, same for Sith Warr. Kill this sith/jedi rinse and repeat after all attempts to talk them down fail. Over and over again. The saving grace there is enjoying some of the comps.

 

I adore the agent story, companions ( except Tharan who is outright creepy) and dont mind the class game play, not my fav but I dont hate it.

 

I also very much enjoy the BH in game play and story which was a nice suprise as im not usually a fan of the *idea* of bounty hunters per say.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Suzsi

[SithKoriandr]

I'm rather disapointed in some outcomes, especially when it came to the agent storyline.

So Cipher was indoctrinated and yada-yada by the imperials. Old news. He knew, he was redesigned to fit the needs of his missions. That indoctrination did not made me personally upset. That's the kind of thing Imperials would do to their personel. This means for at lerast 30-40 generations this is happening daily. This should not bother Cipher at all.

 

I think this is a mistake in thinking.

 

Yes, they know the Sith rule all and one doesn't disobey a sith.

 

However, I never got the impression from the storyline, that one doing a good job would then feel like they would be screwed over by their own people.

 

Not to mention, common knowledge of such things would keep more out of the profession.

[Vercundus]

Every story in this game is pale in comparison to KotOR stories, even rushed Sith Lords is better then the best here, whatever you feel is the best.

 

Agent story is not bad, the problem with it is that people put it on #1 pedestal so newer players automatically assume it is the best. Why agents are my mains DPS and Healer, I really dislike the entire brainwashing plot and Hunter is a complete joke of a villain (if he is suppose to be a villain).

 

Most stories I enjoyed are Hunter and Smuggler, gives that feeling of classic Star Wars.

 

Here's my ranking of stories:

 

1. Smuggler

2. Bounty Hunter

3. Imperial Agent

4. Sith Inquisitor

5. Jedi Knight

6. Sith Warrior

7. Jedi Consular

8. Trooper

[bluehufsa]

Agent story is not bad, the problem with it is that people put it on #1 pedestal so newer players automatically assume it is the best.

 

IA is not an easy to play class, personally i wouldn't recommend it as the first played class for newbies. The story is somehow OK, if you ignore the 30% about Kalyio.

[grania]

Hate the Reps? For taking advantage of what the Imps did?

 

Pffft. What the Reps did was at least understandable.

 

What the Imperials did to the agent, "brainwash or kill" for taking care of the mess a Dark Council member made and basically just doing their job.

 

It's at that point, no agent should really be "YAY! EMPIRE!" imo. You were betrayed by your own side. Which makes sense, as that's all the Sith do, when they stick to their code.

 

I dunno, I mean "the Empire" isn't just imperial intelligence or the Sith. I like to think that my agents have friends and family and neighbors etc (or at least did, before she chose an agent's life), normal people, and they are all imperials. Switching allegiances, especially to a historically hostile faction, would be turning her back on everyone and everything she ever cared about in her life.

 

I also don't like to think of my agents as being naive about what the Empire is really like. She didn't just fall off the turnip ship straight into Hutta.

[Ardrossan]

She didn't just fall off the turnip ship straight into Hutta.

 

I think the smuggler did fall off the turnip ship straight into Ord Mantell though.

[DocDAM]

Agent story is not bad, the problem with it is that people put it on #1 pedestal so newer players automatically assume it is the best. Why agents are my mains DPS and Healer, I really dislike the entire brainwashing plot and Hunter is a complete joke of a villain (if he is suppose to be a villain).

I hear you, and agree in part.

But it is the consensus favorite, clearly. So I do like to acknowledge that when someone asks about "best story".

And I can see the general appeal: it is the one that more than any other, gives some credence to "your choices matter" (never mind that once the class story is over, and in all subsequent stories ... they don't at all )

 

Personally, I'd rate them:

1. Jedi Knight (cliche, but it's a classic cliche, and yes, I'd say closest to "KOTOR3")

2. Sith Warrior

3. IA

Others more or less fall in a group where I might elevate the one I'm playing up, the one I played longest ago, down. I probably would tend to put the Consular at/near the bottom, but don't detest it as some do.

 

But that's me.

 

And yes, I do think the Agent has the worst companion as a group. At least three of them make absolutely no sense as no competent spook would have them on their team (Kaliyo, Scorpio, Vector). Huge wild card security risks.

 

Oh, and I agree that none of these stories holds a candle to BW's best solo RPG storytelling (I'm thinking KOTOR, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect trilogy)

[grania]

I think the smuggler did fall off the turnip ship straight into Ord Mantell though.

 

Lol maybe so but I’m fuzzy on the smuggler story. I know the smuggler talks big but seems to get taken for a ride an awful lot

 

I’m really not an expert on the agent story either and hopefully I haven’t integrated too much personal headcanon with the official story. And we’re all allowed to interpret it anyway that makes us happy.

 

I only know for sure that the agent is an imperial citizen, as per the line they say during character creation. The agent has been through.. what is it called, the Academy? Agent school, whatever. And that the female agent alludes to a former love interest during one of her conversations with Vector. All of which tells me that she’s either a pea in an imperial pod when the story starts ~or~ that perhaps she’s a caring person, who understands what her government is like, and wants to make the Empire a better place, kinda like the ls warrior does.

 

But like I said, these possibilities just make the most sense to me, and I don’t want to give the impression that anyone else has to feel the same way about it. Fun to talk about anyway

[Atalantia]

Personally i cant stand any of the republic side story. To me theres no one that would be that naive. THe smuggler story would be a complete waste of time without Risha, Meanwhile, Corso, along with that lizard guy and aric whatever his name as the first companions you get absolutely are terrible, The Jedi Knight story redeeming factor is T7 without t7 throw the story out the airlock.

 

Imperial side you at least get the chance to be a semi-nice person and not kill everyone who irritates you. You can do the opposite of that as a republic player but it wasn't, in my humble opinion, written very well.

 

As I have over 30 Inquistor toons, both advanced classes I might say the SI story was my favorite.

 

 

My choices:

Inquisitor

Agent

Warrior

Bounty Hunter

 

Why play anything else?

 

OH and Ive been here since early release and dont not have the legacy or legendary or whatever title one gets for completing all class stories. I despise the pub side

Edited March 23, 2018 by Atalantia

[Xbladez]

My favorite class stories

1. Sith Inquisitor (this is a true path of for any Sith Lord trying to carve their own power and eliminate the optical to get to the top).

2. Sith warrior same reason like SI and I do love to mock Baras and make Vette giggle on conversation!

3. Smuggler chapter 1 only, the last 2 are bad.

4. Agent (I don't like the way Sith treating the Imperial Intelligent, everything are slave to Sith but hey...they are Sith so be it.)

5. Jedi Knight too blank and already knew how the story layout in beginning of the game....

6. Bounty Hunter it's just kill and kill and kill...Well, they are Bounty hunter so it's their job...Not interesting!

7. Trooper a boring army play style.

8. Jedi Consular the class itself is nice to play for both range and melee tank or dps but the story is the worse compared to all 8 stories.

 

I can re-play the Sith Inquistor or Sith Warrior story multiple time but I could not swallow the JC story a second time LOL. At the end I'm main play JC and I hated JC story the most (most my crafting/mission screw toons are Sith...)

[Ardrossan]

I must be the oddball.

 

1. BH - My first max char and love the storyline. SW may be Baras's enforcer, but the Hunter is EVERYBODY's thug. I like the class mechanics too. the Best Crew imo. LS and DS don't have much to do with the char, instead think of it as a quadrant divided up between mando culture / honor / will kill for credits merc / psychopathy.

 

2. Agent - Great story with multiple trees branching out. I like the Op mechanics better but think Snipers are more the canon class. As others have mentioned, the crew are a bunch of conspicuous weirdos who would otherwise be in an imperial concentration camp.

 

3. SW - I'm meh about the mechanics but I like both LS/DS storylines. I think they both have more manipulative choices open than the SI, particularly if you're a DS SW who manages to get a LS Jaesa to play with. Vette is a great LI.

 

4. Trooper - Lawful DS is preferred, but it's also fun to have a LS trooper who defies Garza at every opportunity. By Corellia she's given up trying to give you orders. I've learned to like Aric, but it takes awhile. 4X is the best droid in the game.

 

5. Smuggler - Extremes are better here, whether it's extreme LS Pub Patriot or DS backstabbing gangster. As noted, it's hard not to find the char terribly naive regardless of your choices. Risha is great, LI or not.

 

6. JC - If you must be DS, wait till after act 1 or it won't make much sense. I like the story even if it isn't without flaws. The mechanics suit the class. It's best played in combo with the planetary quests. I loved Zenith.

 

7. JK - Bit of a tossup here for 7 or 8th place. I don't think it's at all similar to the KOTOR series, but maybe we were playing different games; my Revan and Exile shot the bad guys with Mandalorian Rippers. Doc is probably the most interesting of the comps. Scourge is just a plot device, though depending on earlier choices he can liven up some of the class scenes on Corellia.

 

8. SI - People who like this story often say something like 'I love how crazy my toon sounds', but imo it's hard to understand the motivations of a crazy person - it's like people yearn to play DS Jaesa with a somewhat better VA. I also found the LS version rather bland. It's tolerable if you play a neutral, sardonic char who is eye-winkingly aware of how nonsensical the whole 'magical journey to ultimate power' story is. Adronikos was probably the most well-developed and / or least irritating comp in the crew, if not that his VA gets used for hundreds of lesser roles.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Ardrossan

[DocDAM]

My fundamental issue with all the stories is that they are so narrowly written, but have to apply to such a broad range of character and dialogue/action choices. Race choice, LS/DS, 100's of actions you choose.

 

Essentially it boils down to: "MMO's suck"

 

Maybe I should be more generous ... RPG's suck

 

The stories assume certain choices. Yet by the very design of the genre (and clear from the demands on the forum), people want to play their own way.

 

We all know what is going on. No matter what you choose, they are going to funnel you down the same path. Like streams that fork from the main, but eventually rejoin.

 

Examples:

SW: Overseer Tremel picks you due to his bigotry. You are his pureblood champion. But you chose to be a twi'lek. This takes an inordinate amount of rationalizing to explain.

 

SI: You are a slave ... but turn out to be offspring of a powerful Sith Lord. If you chose a pureblood Sith - can they be a slave? My limited understanding of canon is "no", but one can rationalize circumstances allowing this. Instead, you choose a twi'lek. How was a twi'lek ancestor a great Sith? Interbreeding??

 

JK: You play a pure, righteous, Jedi. You don't even snog Kira. Yet Chap 2 end implies you were always at risk of turning to the dark side. Huh?

 

You choose to play a Cathar. And on Taris, someone goes to pains to explain Cathar to you. Okay, this is not plot centric, but still.

 

I'm sure we can come up with a hundred examples. But yeah, doesn't mean some stories aren't more cohesive than others.

[Ardrossan]

Yup. It's why i've never made a cathar trooper. I can find ways to headcanon sith pureblood SIs and alien SWs, but I just can't deal with the weirdness of Aric assuming you don't know anything about Cathars. Or Mako having affinity for her little buddy on nar shaddaa [Fruli? Something like that] because of his cybernetics, but not noticing yours.

 

I see this game as a bridging step to a game where the AI is good enough to account for these discrepancies with story-focused dialogue that really is centered on your character, and not just a cookie cutter template. We're not there yet, but we will be eventually.

 

Of course, while we don't have weakly godlike AI yet, we do have writers and devs who could go back into the code and make those changes for themselves, but they don't, because they have no money or they're lazy or they just don't care as much about story as they say they do.