Why NO KILL option on Ashara?

[Paulsutherland]

Marr never felt like a "I pick all the dark side option" Sith to me.

 

As many of the DSV players talk, they're very much the "Gotta pick all the DS options." I just don't see any character like a DSV gaining a follow the likes of Palpatine (thus Alliance commander) without first some under handed tricks, which the PC never does.

 

Marr strikes me as the guy who would pick the option that would benefit the Empire the most regardless of if it was good or bad.

[SithKoriandr]

Marr strikes me as the guy who would pick the option that would benefit the Empire the most regardless of if it was good or bad.

 

Exactly, so he was never DS 5

[Goreshaga]

Marr never felt like a "I pick all the dark side option" Sith to me.

 

As many of the DSV players talk, they're very much the "Gotta pick all the DS options." I just don't see any character like a DSV gaining a follow the likes of Palpatine (thus Alliance commander) without first some under handed tricks, which the PC never does.

Both my SD SW and SI are not the "gotta pick all the DS options"

MY Wrath will kill you if you stand in her way and try to fight, but she doesn't go around killing babies and kicking puppies just for the lolz. And if you're an ennemy but manage to earn her respect, she might spare you (like that Mirialan Jedi on Belsavis).

 

My Nox is a bit different, but there is ONE thing you absolutely can't do if you don't want to die is trying to force him do something.

For instance he let that scientist on Balmorra go freely (which is LS) because the guy was usefull and told him that he more or less felt like a slave within the Empire, which is something Nox can relate to. On the other hand, that imperial soldier who forced him save his Sith son, well he killed the father and the son, because you don't force him, either he wants to do something or he won't do it.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Both my SD SW and SI are not the "gotta pick all the DS options"

MY Wrath will kill you if you stand in her way and try to fight, but she doesn't go around killing babies and kicking puppies just for the lolz. And if you're an ennemy but manage to earn her respect, she might spare you (like that Mirialan Jedi on Belsavis).

 

My Nox is a bit different, but there is ONE thing you absolutely can't do if you don't want to die is trying to force him do something.

For instance he let that scientist on Balmorra go freely (which is LS) because the guy was usefull and told him that he more or less felt like a slave within the Empire, which is something Nox can relate to. On the other hand, that imperial soldier who forced him save his Sith son, well he killed the father and the son, because you don't force him, either he wants to do something or he won't do it.

 

Dark V doesn't even necessarily depend on choices, because if you just leave the toggle on, it will eventually drift to V on either side.

 

But yeah, even being Dark V doesn't mean you're going to be a mindless killing machine and slash and burn your way through the story. Most of my characters are DS aligned and they've still made a variety of choices. They've been kind to their companions; they've saved people when they've felt it's been warranted, and they don't go around kicking puppies either. Likewise, my characters that are aligned Light V have also made DS choices when they've felt it was necessary or warranted.

 

My SIs always make the same choices on Balmorra.

[Lunafox]

Both my SD SW and SI are not the "gotta pick all the DS options"

MY Wrath will kill you if you stand in her way and try to fight, but she doesn't go around killing babies and kicking puppies just for the lolz. And if you're an ennemy but manage to earn her respect, she might spare you (like that Mirialan Jedi on Belsavis).

 

My Nox is a bit different, but there is ONE thing you absolutely can't do if you don't want to die is trying to force him do something.

For instance he let that scientist on Balmorra go freely (which is LS) because the guy was usefull and told him that he more or less felt like a slave within the Empire, which is something Nox can relate to. On the other hand, that imperial soldier who forced him save his Sith son, well he killed the father and the son, because you don't force him, either he wants to do something or he won't do it.

 

I play mine quite similarly; they're dark, but if you're capable of earning their respect, then they'll have it. My toons are decent to the crew, because you need 'family' and they know where you sleep lol. Plus it's good to have people you can rely on. That's the thing with Ashara, my SI Nox, never felt she could rely on her ever. As for me, that Mirialan Jedi, he dies every time, lol. Something about the guy, just...rubs me the wrong way lol.

[Goreshaga]

I play mine quite similarly; they're dark, but if you're capable of earning their respect, then they'll have it. My toons are decent to the crew, because you need 'family' and they know where you sleep lol. Plus it's good to have people you can rely on. That's the thing with Ashara, my SI Nox, never felt she could rely on her ever. As for me, that Mirialan Jedi, he dies every time, lol. Something about the guy, just...rubs me the wrong way lol.

Same here, my DS toons still treat their crew pretty well, and aren't mean to them.

Problem with Ashara is that no matter how you treat her, she'll be exactly the same, you can be the best person she's ever had in her life, she'll just one day like you and hate you the next time you talk to her. I don't think my Nox thinks she's reliable either because of that behaviour. Had she had different reactions depending on how you're treating her, i think she would've been a better character, but no matter what happens or how she's treated, she never changes, she's always unable to make up her mind about you.

 

Yeah, that Mirialan, i started off really wanting to kill him, but he somehow managed to gain my SW's respect while fighting with her. Plus he never tried to outright kill her, so he earned the right to leave with his life

[SithKoriandr]

Same here, my DS toons still treat their crew pretty well, and aren't mean to them.

Problem with Ashara is that no matter how you treat her, she'll be exactly the same, you can be the best person she's ever had in her life, she'll just one day like you and hate you the next time you talk to her. I don't think my Nox thinks she's reliable either because of that behaviour. Had she had different reactions depending on how you're treating her, i think she would've been a better character, but no matter what happens or how she's treated, she never changes, she's always unable to make up her mind about you.

 

Yeah, that Mirialan, i started off really wanting to kill him, but he somehow managed to gain my SW's respect while fighting with her. Plus he never tried to outright kill her, so he earned the right to leave with his life

 

The point still stands, there's no reason considering the DS speech options, for anyone to say "Yeah. I should side with you over Arcann." Unless it's a matter of "Well, they're both evil a-holes, but at least that one is from MY part of the galaxy."

 

Which, if that's the reason they back you instead...okay.

[MikeCobalt]

All of this is the reason I haven't taken my S.I. through the Zakuul stories (Even though it would be the Best way to *Alleviate myself from Ashara). My Inquisitor is DS4 (Mainly from Heroics) but Certainly Not the Psycho Fanatic Sith BW has often portrayed here. I Originally based that character on Vader and later on Marr/Malgus types; Determined, Professional and Proper. Even considering those traits I can still see taking the Inq. through Zakuul would lead to *More* Damage then just what Arcann, Valkorian and Vaylin caused, The Reactor, Citizens living in the swamp neither of those would concern my S.I. The Aric / Kaliyo incident, Koth and other less famous but still consequential decisions.

 

My S.I. wouldn't consider any of those as particularly *Important and in the end it would be less a "Champion of" issue and more like "The Feudal system". Ashara with *Contempt actively resisted a Sith, what typically happens to that person?? Ashara IS special and considering the outcome, more important to BW then the S.I. and the Customer behind it. No business ever made any gains *Insulting the customers.

[Lunafox]

The point still stands, there's no reason considering the DS speech options, for anyone to say "Yeah. I should side with you over Arcann." Unless it's a matter of "Well, they're both evil a-holes, but at least that one is from MY part of the galaxy."

 

Which, if that's the reason they back you instead...okay.

 

Well, there is the trope, 'The Devil You Know.' It would likely be easier for Imperials and surviving Sith to throw their support behind 'one of their own' because you're not the one that blew up their home, killed their loved ones etc. The Republic is more difficult, as they see you as an enemy anyway, but again, it could be a case of 'The Devil You Know' or 'The Lesser Evil' or it "Takes Evil to get rid of Evil." There are tropes for this, which seemingly make sense for stories, or else they wouldn't be tropes.

 

What really doesn't make sense is any Alliance being left if the Commander decides they love Arcann after all that was done. Voss healing or not, it's not human nature to be that forgiving or understanding. The Alliance would've literally thrown a fit and freaked out, if you landed one day, hand in hand with Arcann. That's the thing that REALLY doesn't make sense and would've been an interesting angle to the story...to watch all you built fall apart because people have this perception of you taking up with the destroyer of their worlds.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Lunafox

[bluehufsa]

What really doesn't make sense is any Alliance being left if the Commander decides they love Arcann after all that was done. Voss healing or not, it's not human nature to be that forgiving or understanding. The Alliance would've literally thrown a fit and freaked out, if you landed one day, hand in hand with Arcann. That's the thing that REALLY doesn't make sense and would've been an interesting angle to the story...to watch all you built fall apart because people have this perception of you taking up with the destroyer of their worlds.

 

Welcome to SW:TOR, where freedom dies and legends are forced on the Galaxy. :p

[LordVitalus]

In my head canon, Ashara dies while I was in carbonite. It's the only way it makes sense. The recruitment scene on Voss was just a dream. Edited November 26, 2018 by LordVitalus

[Paulsutherland]

In my head canon, Ashara dies while I was in carbonite. It's the only way it makes sense. The recruitment scene on Voss was just a dream.

 

More like a nightmare.

[Lunafox]

More like a nightmare.

 

Haha yeah.

[casirabit]

Now I want to know how many want to kill Ashara but left Arcann alive, because that should never be a thing for those DSers

 

My ds sorcerer killed Arcann and would have done the same for Ashara but was not able to her so I didn't accept her back.

[AllisonLightning]

Haha yeah.

 

I find Ashara a twit, don't want to but since they gave into the haters with Quinn- I want one on her and Lana, especially. Can I just say I love your thread and when I realized and did resub this time (knew there was a high chance), I used your link. You're always so positive and your threads and posts are interesting and kept me engaged when I simply wasn't playing.

[Lunafox]

I find Ashara a twit, don't want to but since they gave into the haters with Quinn- I want one on her and Lana, especially. Can I just say I love your thread and when I realized and did resub this time (knew there was a high chance), I used your link. You're always so positive and your threads and posts are interesting and kept me engaged when I simply wasn't playing.

 

Well, thank you so much! For both the kind words and using my link. I got my little green droid today and was very happy, cause it was the one I wanted in particular, so thank you, right back atcha! Welcome back, I hope you have fun playing and reading the posts, I've missed seeing you around. <3

[AllisonLightning]

Well, thank you so much! For both the kind words and using my link. I got my little green droid today and was very happy, cause it was the one I wanted in particular, so thank you, right back atcha! Welcome back, I hope you have fun playing and reading the posts, I've missed seeing you around. <3

 

I aim to please and aww. I might get critical of the game but there's so much I like and everything invested, it's when I simply don't care, I don't want things to be better. I have this thing about the teeny astromechs they keep giving us- they're adorable. I have a soft spot for them and the akk dog pets- I want them to drop Firestalker pets in EV.

[Lunafox]

I aim to please and aww. I might get critical of the game but there's so much I like and everything invested, it's when I simply don't care, I don't want things to be better. I have this thing about the teeny astromechs they keep giving us- they're adorable. I have a soft spot for them and the akk dog pets- I want them to drop Firestalker pets in EV.

 

Same here. I have my moments where segments of the game bug me too, but for the most part I'm quite happy and find plenty to occupy myself with. I'm a fan of all the pets, I love the little creatures and I have a soft spot for the droids. Here's a screenie that fits this thread that you might appreciate lol. This is at my Rishi house lol.

 

https://i.imgur.com/kz1HRIn.jpg

Edited November 27, 2018 by Lunafox

[Amonthia]

This thread brings me comfort.

 

I've not completed my storyline with her yet, but I already find her completely insufferable and have been trying to find ways to stuff her through a woodchipper feet first.

 

I spacebar through most of my conversations with her and find myself rolling my eyes a lot while shouting 'Oh, FFS. Sith up, or shut up you big baby!' at my monitor.

 

Please consider giving us a kill option for her. <3

[Lunafox]

This thread brings me comfort.

 

I've not completed my storyline with her yet, but I already find her completely insufferable and have been trying to find ways to stuff her through a woodchipper feet first.

 

I spacebar through most of my conversations with her and find myself rolling my eyes a lot while shouting 'Oh, FFS. Sith up, or shut up you big baby!' at my monitor.

 

Please consider giving us a kill option for her. <3

 

Welcome, I'm glad it's comforting and more support is always welcome. I love what you're screaming at your monitor. I usually just mock her barks and make faces lol. I used to give my monitor a little flick whenever she'd say "Don't make me go against my teachings" lol. But she said it so much, well, suffice it to say I have a new monitor now and don't do that anymore lol.

[BlastBoomArt]

I actually really like Ashara as a character. She can definitely get a little annoying sometimes with how preachy she can get, but I think of it as her just being a very passionate individual.

 

I will say though that her return was absolutely awful and actually made ME want a kill option. Not because my SI dislikes her, but because she absolutely would not tolerate Ashara trying to undermine her authority - questioning it is fine, as she often does - but not this whole 'I want to be equals even though I've seen with my own two eyes how insanely more powerful you are than me". It was absolutely ridiculous to me that we only had the option of either nodding along like an idiot or making some half-hearted attack then staring dumbly as she walked out the door.

 

I honestly don't support the killing off of any companion just because Bioware has made it so that any such decision effects literally Everyone, not just the people that killed them off in their game. But Ashara's return needed to be wayyy different.

 

Either she comes back as a willing subordinate (because I don't care how much experience she gets, Ashara's not even remotely close to the same league as the SI) or we get to lock her up. She and Andronikos can hang out in prison together

 

Those are my thoughts on it anyway~

-

[Lunafox]

I will say though that her return was absolutely awful and actually made ME want a kill option. Not because my SI dislikes her, but because she absolutely would not tolerate Ashara trying to undermine her authority - questioning it is fine, as she often does - but not this whole 'I want to be equals even though I've seen with my own two eyes how insanely more powerful you are than me". It was absolutely ridiculous to me that we only had the option of either nodding along like an idiot or making some half-hearted attack then staring dumbly as she walked out the door.

 

 

Either she comes back as a willing subordinate (because I don't care how much experience she gets, Ashara's not even remotely close to the same league as the SI) or we get to lock her up. She and Andronikos can hang out in prison together

 

Those are my thoughts on it anyway~

-

 

Thank you. I think it would've been a lot better, had it been done differently. I can't see how Ashara would contribute anything meaningful to the story given that she had no part at all in KotFE/ET but stranger things have happened. If they are keeping her in mind for some future story bit, they still should've allowed those of us who didn't want, or are displeased with her, or even outright hated her guts to have a satisfying way of resolving our story.

 

I personally wanted a kill option for her because I've hated her guts from the very start, her whole persona grates on my nerves and irritates my Nox, but I would've have settled for :

 

a) leaving her for dead or actually dead.

a.1) Some Voss could've healed her after I split if she's needed in the future.

b)leaving her alive, but on our terms

c)prison

d)dismissal (for my gentler SIs) and

e) Keeping her (for those who wanted to continue with her/romanced her)

 

As it was left undermined our character's agency and history and basically sucked the joy out of playing the SI character.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Lunafox

[Goreshaga]

Things is that unless they give content to companions who came back through class specifics AA (and if that's the case, they better give the same courtesy to the killabe ones too), she's already dead storywise, as she's completely absent from the main storyline and will more likely than not have no part to play (or very minimal like mails and / or romance cutscenes) in the future storyline, so giving her a kill option would not have removed her from anyone's story more than she already is, so it makes no sense not to give her one.

My only explanation to this is that she's a female LI and you should not want to kill them, but it's perfectly fine to kill male LIs...

 

Back to her though, there is no way my Nox would tolerate her attitude. If there is one thing he hates above everything else that is someone trying to force him do something. So there's no way he would take her back on her terms.

But he's not an idiot either, he'd never let someone who spend something like 5 years traveling with him go away if they could become a threat to him later (with everything said person learned about him) so he'd clearly not let her walk away without killing her (i'm fine with a quick painless death a snap of the neck "Vaylin style" would work just fine by me).

 

Well if i was able to have it my way, he'd either have send her back to the Jedi on Taris if he was in a good mood or just outright killed her for luring him into a trap there, but he'd never have taken her on his ship.

I guess that if she never has any new content later, i'll just HC that she was never allowed on his ship, that would save me many troubles as i find her completely useless : Xalek is Nox' only true Sith apprentice (along with Zash' former ones that risked their lives to save Nox and gave up their lives in the end for him), Talos is highly knowledgeable which is great asset to Nox, Khem is the most loyal being in the galaxy and makes a both a perfect bodyguard and killing machine, and Andronikos is an ace pilot who handles himself pretty well in a fight and as a pirate i guess he has some usefull contacts in the underworld.

Ashara, well she'll never be a Jedi, never be a Sith, did nothing at all for Nox except lure him in a trap on Taris, has no particular talent that can be usefull (except being the strongest of a bunch of weakling Padawan). Seems like her only purpose is to be the male SI's lover, which is pretty useless if you're a female SI or not interested in her, especially considering she's the only option.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Goreshaga

[kirorx]

Ashara belongs to a Jedi who brings her back home.

 

She has no place at the side of any Sith Inquisitor. Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Keeping the most displaced companion in the place she belongs the least... not the best idea ever. Not even Sith Inquisitor players want her back.

 

Agreed. She is one of the companions that would of been better off as a multi class companion. She would do well with any of my republic side characters.

 

It will make even less sense with the war between sith/jedi now.

[QuinlanSaathis]

My SI would have broken her like a unwanted toy and if she wouldn't break she would die.

One of them took her back on her terms because she is his love interest but I have to say they made that damn hard as well. I pretty much had to ignore the whole return and make up another story for the reunion because even as a love interest she would not have walked out of that room.