Why NO KILL option on Ashara?

[Taramayne]

I have to say I found this scenario extremely disappointing.

 

From an IC standpoint my SI would say to her "Just.. what.. makes you think you are in any way, shape, or form, MY equal? Your audacity astounds."

 

..and then probably shock the crap out of her before walking away.

 

..wouldn't kill her, but certainly toss her to the curb on MY terms, not let her walk away on hers.

 

It felt like my SI got railroaded. VERY disappointing.

[MikeCobalt]

I cant help but think these "Companion Reunions" we've asked for now over two years have turned out to be a "Colossal Let Down". Much Anticipated, Consistent top subject of the forums, an event we were Promised, Trust Us, We Know how Important they are and even Originally scheduled as part of KotXX (but dropped in Favor of "Keeping up with the Valkorians") has turned from elements of Anticipation to events that *Promised Insults, Ongoing Belittlements, Companion script defects, and Regrets (for not Yanking them out on our own) with a *Personal cause to boot. This was Important to *Everybody*. I don't have any more on the way but if I did I would take them myself; the 2 minute story isn't welcome, in character plus detrimental to the character.

[QuinlanSaathis]

I cant help but think these "Companion Reunions" we've asked for now over two years have turned out to be a "Colossal Let Down". Much Anticipated, Consistent top subject of the forums, an event we were Promised, Trust Us, We Know how Important they are and even Originally scheduled as part of KotXX (but dropped in Favor of "Keeping up with the Valkorians") has turned from elements of Anticipation to events that *Promised Insults, Ongoing Belittlements, Companion script defects, and Regrets (for not Yanking them out on our own) with a *Personal cause to boot. This was Important to *Everybody*. I don't have any more on the way but if I did I would take them myself; the 2 minute story isn't welcome, in character plus detrimental to the character.

 

Doesn't matter if you pull them out or not.

Say you pulled out Kira, she would be replaced by the "returned" Kira as soon as Kira was returned.

[Dracofish]

Doesn't matter if you pull them out or not.

Say you pulled out Kira, she would be replaced by the "returned" Kira as soon as Kira was returned.

 

Not if you just ignore the alert. And, I highly suspect if you do...you can ninja-mance yourself into a poly relationship. I know that if I return Andronikos via console, it doesn't break my relationship with Theron...they're both there.

 

Just make up whatever you want. Anything is better than what we got.

[MikeCobalt]

Doesn't matter if you pull them out or not.

Say you pulled out Kira, she would be replaced by the "returned" Kira as soon as Kira was returned.

 

I've read here (Forums)

1-if you Draw the Companions out early then *Ignore, Their Alert you *Keep the Pre KotXX version (Not Speech broken and Resumes their placement of your ship).

2-If you draw them out *Early then *Do, take their Alert, then your comp. version will be *Replaced. Personally I only took out Akaavi early and I do Plan on Ignoring that Alert Indefinitely.

3-Wait for the Alert (Like it was BW intended) suffer the script defects, be insulted, have an emptier ship (for those that still use it) and two..ish minutes of Story that may or may not reflect your companions character.

[BlueShiftRecall]

Nearly all male LI (ones that returned) can be killed now, wich is the case only for Vette and Kaliyo for female LI, quite unfair for straight female PC, considering their LI is as good as dead even if they're not, once they're killable...

 

But, I'm not naive, and I'm pretty sure he'll be killable

 

If Theron get's a kill option then all 3 m/m options can be killed, Koth/Theron/Arcann. Unless I missed someone?

[Sinhammer]

If Theron get's a kill option then all 3 m/m options can be killed, Koth/Theron/Arcann. Unless I missed someone?

 

You can chalk that one up to bad writing. All three male LIs unfortunately DESERVE to be killed at this point, in spite of their fans saying otherwise. Theron is either a traitor or just a massive liar who either way caused damage to the Alliance. Arcann is a mass-murdering, genocidal psychopath. And Koth is a selfish, gigantic d-bag who had a fling with Lana (and thus why he's universally hated). Any Dark-aligned character would more than likely end any of these NPCs, violently and painfully. LANA should have been the traitor to balance that out, since she is the only one so far who hasn't given a reason to kill her. But for some reason she's so far untouchable. Even IF Theron is just lying and let's say Lana is the real traitor (just throwing that out there), he still needs a kill option for nearly killing you and lying to you. If there ISN'T one--yeah that's just more bad writing.

[BlueShiftRecall]

You can chalk that one up to bad writing. All three male LIs unfortunately DESERVE to be killed at this point, in spite of their fans saying otherwise. Theron is either a traitor or just a massive liar who either way caused damage to the Alliance. Arcann is a mass-murdering, genocidal psychopath. And Koth is a selfish, gigantic d-bag who had a fling with Lana (and thus why he's universally hated). Any Dark-aligned character would more than likely end any of these NPCs, violently and painfully. LANA should have been the traitor to balance that out, since she is the only one so far who hasn't given a reason to kill her. But for some reason she's so far untouchable. Even IF Theron is just lying and let's say Lana is the real traitor (just throwing that out there), he still needs a kill option for nearly killing you and lying to you. If there ISN'T one--yeah that's just more bad writing.

 

I fully agree with you. As a Theron fan myself I can fully understand why people's characters will want to kill him after lying and deceiving them (not to mention how he's hurting those who romanced him by doing what he's done) and that it would be fully in character for their toons, I even have a DS SW who would kill him because that's fully in his character. Having written all 3 m/m romances this way they've backed themselves in the corner because we all know what happens when a character can be killed (no more story for them), so m/m will be dead in the water moving forward. I'm going to make a bet the next m/m will be a liar/traitor/murderer who'll turn on us...just calling it now.

[QuinlanSaathis]

I've read here (Forums)

1-if you Draw the Companions out early then *Ignore, Their Alert you *Keep the Pre KotXX version (Not Speech broken and Resumes their placement of your ship).

2-If you draw them out *Early then *Do, take their Alert, then your comp. version will be *Replaced. Personally I only took out Akaavi early and I do Plan on Ignoring that Alert Indefinitely.

3-Wait for the Alert (Like it was BW intended) suffer the script defects, be insulted, have an emptier ship (for those that still use it) and two..ish minutes of Story that may or may not reflect your companions character.

 

Yes you are correct, I was speaking if you do take the alert.

Not taking it locks you out of any future story with the companions

[MikeCobalt]

Yes you are correct, I was speaking if you do take the alert.

Not taking it locks you out of any future story with the companions

 

Kinda what I've thought also. Maybe I can *YouTube what other people have done in their Akaavi / Mako reunion then weigh the results. One thing that keeps going through my mind concerning these returns and much of the recent SWTOR bits....The original story writers dealt with crucial events, different companions and landmark decisions and never once write themselves into a "Spot" where any of this was necessary. Lately the Bits have driven the stories into Impossible situations, convoluted the story line and created animosity in every aspect. "Shock Effect", "Life & Death Decisions" and "Profuse Drama" are tools when the story otherwise would be flat; a better written scene requires none of these "Crutch's" to entertain and hold an audience.

[BJWyler]

Kinda what I've thought also. Maybe I can *YouTube what other people have done in their Akaavi / Mako reunion then weigh the results. One thing that keeps going through my mind concerning these returns and much of the recent SWTOR bits....The original story writers dealt with crucial events, different companions and landmark decisions and never once write themselves into a "Spot" where any of this was necessary. Lately the Bits have driven the stories into Impossible situations, convoluted the story line and created animosity in every aspect. "Shock Effect", "Life & Death Decisions" and "Profuse Drama" are tools when the story otherwise would be flat; a better written scene requires none of these "Crutch's" to entertain and hold an audience.

 

Unfortunately, the corner was written into when they decided to go the route of the boorish "Keeping up with the Valkorians". A distinctly un-Star Wars side trip story. Anything that comes afterward now is going to be unsatisfactory because of this. The only way out is to retcon the last two expansions and remove any influence the story had between 3.0 and 6.0.

[Paulsutherland]

Unfortunately, the corner was written into when they decided to go the route of the boorish "Keeping up with the Valkorians". A distinctly un-Star Wars side trip story. Anything that comes afterward now is going to be unsatisfactory because of this. The only way out is to retcon the last two expansions and remove any influence the story had between 3.0 and 6.0.

 

Well, we have time travel now, maybe cause a timey timey event that takes us back to the end of Ziost? In which we save Darth Marr, Vette, Vaylin etc ... maybe we zap Valkorian with his Holocron and trap him in there? thus saving our past self from KOTFE/ET ... but then the reasons for us going back in time wouldn't exist ... so we'll spend the rest of SWTOR's life pondering if we ****ed up the timeline or if we're in a parallel dimension.

[QuinlanSaathis]

Unfortunately, the corner was written into when they decided to go the route of the boorish "Keeping up with the Valkorians". A distinctly un-Star Wars side trip story. Anything that comes afterward now is going to be unsatisfactory because of this. The only way out is to retcon the last two expansions and remove any influence the story had between 3.0 and 6.0.

 

I completely disagree with this.

It was statements like this that cheated us out of the full three episodes at 16 chapters each with full blown and satisfying companion returns and gave this the rubbish we have now.

 

I enjoyed every part of KotFE and KotET and if you appreciated the depth of the Aric, Kaliyo, Torian, Scorpio, and the Vette/Gault returns then that depth would have been for a vast majority of the companions.

Instead we got a few Alerts and the dross that is being served up as "returns" now.

[Goreshaga]

I completely disagree with this.

It was statements like this that cheated us out of the full three episodes at 16 chapters each with full blown and satisfying companion returns and gave this the rubbish we have now.

 

I enjoyed every part of KotFE and KotET and if you appreciated the depth of the Aric, Kaliyo, Torian, Scorpio, and the Vette/Gault returns then that depth would have been for a vast majority of the companions.

Instead we got a few Alerts and the dross that is being served up as "returns" now.

I completely agree with this.

I enjoyed KOTFE and KOTET a lot, but it was really too short to really be satisfying, and now everyone is upset with what we have

[DefenderTwo]

I completely disagree with this.

It was statements like this that cheated us out of the full three episodes at 16 chapters each with full blown and satisfying companion returns and gave this the rubbish we have now.

 

I enjoyed every part of KotFE and KotET and if you appreciated the depth of the Aric, Kaliyo, Torian, Scorpio, and the Vette/Gault returns then that depth would have been for a vast majority of the companions.

Instead we got a few Alerts and the dross that is being served up as "returns" now.

 

I agree with this.

 

I would rather pay to see what was in those two 16 chapter expansions that wherever we're going now.

Edited April 19, 2018 by DefenderTwo

[Dracofish]

I fully agree with you. As a Theron fan myself I can fully understand why people's characters will want to kill him after lying and deceiving them (not to mention how he's hurting those who romanced him by doing what he's done) and that it would be fully in character for their toons, I even have a DS SW who would kill him because that's fully in his character. Having written all 3 m/m romances this way they've backed themselves in the corner because we all know what happens when a character can be killed (no more story for them), so m/m will be dead in the water moving forward. I'm going to make a bet the next m/m will be a liar/traitor/murderer who'll turn on us...just calling it now.

 

M/M...and F/M...considering original romances are paperweights.

 

Yes you are correct, I was speaking if you do take the alert.

Not taking it locks you out of any future story with the companions

 

Somehow I don't think that would be an issue...and that any companions returned via alert will have no future story.

 

I completely disagree with this.

It was statements like this that cheated us out of the full three episodes at 16 chapters each with full blown and satisfying companion returns and gave this the rubbish we have now.

 

I enjoyed every part of KotFE and KotET and if you appreciated the depth of the Aric, Kaliyo, Torian, Scorpio, and the Vette/Gault returns then that depth would have been for a vast majority of the companions.

Instead we got a few Alerts and the dross that is being served up as "returns" now.

 

I also enjoyed FE/ET (for the most part, though the one-size-fits-all storyline made it hard for me to swallow for a non-force user) and would have loved to get back what they cut, along with the meaningful, story-driven returns they promised us.

 

I liked how FE/ET got beyond the never-ending hamster-wheel of Imp v. Pub. I like how we were able to explore the validity of shades of grey rather than doom, doom, DOOM RAAAAR! DARK SIDE!

 

I play a moderately dark Darth Nox. She's pragmatic. She gets along with Ashara (the conversations you can have with a pragmatic SI are amazing). She's still Sith. And she'll still open up the hurt if she needs to. But she's not a mustache-twirling psycho throwing severed heads into the streets. I wish more people would acknowledge the idea that not all Sith have to be examples of the extreme...and I got to do that with FE/ET.

 

Sith are people too.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Dracofish

[Goreshaga]

I also enjoyed FE/ET (for the most part, though the one-size-fits-all storyline made it hard for me to swallow for a non-force user) and would have loved to get back what they cut, along with the meaningful, story-driven returns they promised us.

 

I liked how FE/ET got beyond the never-ending hamster-wheel of Imp v. Pub. I like how we were able to explore the validity of shades of grey rather than doom, doom, DOOM RAAAAR! DARK SIDE!

 

I play a moderately dark Darth Nox. She's pragmatic. She gets along with Ashara (the conversations you can have with a pragmatic SI are amazing). She's still Sith. And she'll still open up the hurt if she needs to. But she's not a mustache-twirling psycho throwing severed heads into the streets. I wish more people would acknowledge the idea that not all Sith have to be examples of the extreme...and I got to do that with FE/ET.

 

Sith are people too.

Same here. IMO, the one story for all does not fit very well with non Force users or fully DS characters (ones that always pick DS options that is).

 

Well my Darth Nox is quite full DS and so does not get along very well with Ashara, I guess he'd rather kill her on Taris than drag her along but, no choice here, though my Darth Imperious sees Ashara quite as a kind of a little sister and she'd probably be ok with her being a bit cocky, but would probably nonetheless tell her that she may have improved but is not quite her equal yet and needs more training.

 

I play a more neutral SW though and prefer that more neutral, pragmatic approach for that character as I feel this makes him much more dangerous as everyone unedrestimates him and sees him only as a brainless brute wich he is not.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Goreshaga

[QuinlanSaathis]

Somehow I don't think that would be an issue...and that any companions returned via alert will have no future story.

 

I hope you are wrong.

 

I also enjoyed FE/ET (for the most part, though the one-size-fits-all storyline made it hard for me to swallow for a non-force user) and would have loved to get back what they cut, along with the meaningful, story-driven returns they promised us.

 

Agreed, it really is difficult for a non-force user.

 

I liked how FE/ET got beyond the never-ending hamster-wheel of Imp v. Pub. I like how we were able to explore the validity of shades of grey rather than doom, doom, DOOM RAAAAR! DARK SIDE!

 

I play a moderately dark Darth Nox. She's pragmatic. She gets along with Ashara (the conversations you can have with a pragmatic SI are amazing). She's still Sith. And she'll still open up the hurt if she needs to. But she's not a mustache-twirling psycho throwing severed heads into the streets. I wish more people would acknowledge the idea that not all Sith have to be examples of the extreme...and I got to do that with FE/ET.

 

Sith are people too.

 

I have 6 Inquisitors.

The "Bad" one who is evil and will inflict as much pain and suffering as they can, not necessarily DS

The "Good" one who will help and offer kindness support and fights injustice but not necessarily LS

The "Neutral" one who will maintain a balance between being a complete d-bag and a saint, like the rest of us

The "Complete Psycho" ******* crazy. DS/LS are meaningless, hug you one moment and electrify you the next

The "Power Hungry" Out for themselves whatever gains them the most DS/LS irrelevant

The "Loyal" Devoted to the Empire and the Emperor all options to enrich the Empire DS/LS again, irrelevant

 

I have other concepts in mind but I haven't got around to building them or I haven't figured out how to play them correctly yet.

 

Bad = Ashara Dead

Good = Ashara alive and rejoins

Neutral = Ashara alive but not rejoining

Psycho = No idea

Power Hungry = Ashara broken and rejoining

Loyal = Ashara broken and rejoining

 

That is just one companion return and out of my 6 Inquisitors only two of them can be true to their personalities.

Not all Sith have to be extreme, there are many personalities and possibilities available for us to play them as but with this writing the ability to stay true is gone.

 

So I acknowledge the fact that some Sith are fairly benign, my "good" Sith could out-good some Jedi as they show empathy and sympathy where the Jedi does not and these characters are just as valid as the others but it is not fair to cut off personalities as they have with this lack of choice.

[Dracofish]

I hope you are wrong.

 

I hope so too, but I doubt it.

 

That is just one companion return and out of my 6 Inquisitors only two of them can be true to their personalities.

Not all Sith have to be extreme, there are many personalities and possibilities available for us to play them as but with this writing the ability to stay true is gone.

 

So I acknowledge the fact that some Sith are fairly benign, my "good" Sith could out-good some Jedi as they show empathy and sympathy where the Jedi does not and these characters are just as valid as the others but it is not fair to cut off personalities as they have with this lack of choice.

 

Pretty much everything they've given us over the past couple years has been one-size-fits-all, and if your character doesn't conform to that "all" then you're s.o.l. This Ashara return is no different. A lot of the actual "role play" has to be done in your head.

 

I don't know if my Nox would see Ashara as an equal...likely not. When does a Master ever really see an Apprentice as an equal? But that's why I ran through it once, and will likely skip the alert with my other versions of the same character (I have three...one for Andronikos, one for Theron, and one for Arcann...which ended up being a disappointment, but that's an entirely different can of annoyed worms).

 

But, I don't think MY Ashara would act the way she was written in that alert anyways. Because again...one-size-fits-all. Everybody gets the same Ashara back, regardless of where her personality developed by the end of the original class story. Folks are upset that their characters can't react the way they'd like...but another important factor is that in all of the alerts I've seen so far...not a single companion has be "in-character" for me. Even Andronikos. The idea that he was so completely oblivious, that he had no idea the SI was alive and the leader of the Alliance, despite the fact that her face has been broadcast across the entire galaxy for TWO YEARS...uh...yeah. NO. Too busy? Riiiiiight. Like he never saw a news report or set foot in a cantina in two years...

 

Like I said, I'll just make it up in my head.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Dracofish

[IoNonSoEVero]

. I wish more people would acknowledge the idea that not all Sith have to be examples of the extreme...and I got to do that with FE/ET.

 

Sith are people too.

 

This.

 

And it's pretty telling that there hasn't been the same insistence in "it's the Sith Way OMG GUYZ!!" for the male companions. The same people that don't think a simple kill option for Ashara would have been enough, but want to enjoy abusing her, have not asked for that for Andronikos. So the Sith way doesn't cover him, too?

 

Andronikos wasn't looking for the SI and raided their ships, but he gets a pass? Any DS inquisitor would either fry him on the spot or torture him for it. I haven't heard a single person ask for that, but they'll ask for it for a female character.

 

Because it's okay to kill and abuse a female character and if the game doesn't allow it, that's somehow an agenda. If the game doesn't allow it for a male character on the same class, that's apparently fine. It's more that people are using what they perceive to be the Sith way to justify whatever they want and dropping it when it's convenient.

Edited April 19, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[AlienEyeTX]

This.

 

And it's pretty telling that there hasn't been the same insistence in "it's the Sith Way OMG GUYZ!!" for the male companions. The same people that don't think a simple kill option for Ashara would have been enough, but want to enjoy abusing her, have not asked for that for Andronikos. So the Sith way doesn't cover him, too?

 

Andronikos wasn't looking for the SI and raided their ships, but he gets a pass? Any DS inquisitor would either fry him on the spot or torture him for it. I haven't heard a single person ask for that, but they'll ask for it for a female character.

 

Because it's okay to kill and abuse a female character and if the game doesn't allow it, that's somehow an agenda. If the game doesn't allow it for a male character on the same class, that's apparently fine. It's more that people are using what they perceive to be the Sith way to justify whatever they want and dropping it when it's convenient.

 

It probably depends on the character's actions. Ashara shows blatant disrespect for her master. Not to mention that she was pretty flakey before KotXX. My SI didn't want to abuse her. But execution for insubordination would have been appropriate.

 

I haven't done the Andronikos mission yet, but I already know that my SI DOES want him dead. So, you can count me as one on that side. Really, any of the companions who chose not to go looking for the SI are fit to be executed. She's ruthless.

 

That being stated, I'm also fine with no kill option on companions. However, the way that last interaction went down just didn't make any sense. All it would have taken was another few lines of dialogue to make it right... even without a kill option.

 

Also, it seems like plenty of male characters have kill options. I don't think it's a male/female thing. I think you just choose to see it that way because of the most recent events.

[Dracofish]

It probably depends on the character's actions. Ashara shows blatant disrespect for her master. Not to mention that she was pretty flakey before KotXX. My SI didn't want to abuse her. But execution for insubordination would have been appropriate.

 

I haven't done the Andronikos mission yet, but I already know that my SI DOES want him dead. So, you can count me as one on that side. Really, any of the companions who chose not to go looking for the SI are fit to be executed. She's ruthless.

 

That being stated, I'm also fine with no kill option on companions. However, the way that last interaction went down just didn't make any sense. All it would have taken was another few lines of dialogue to make it right... even without a kill option.

 

Also, it seems like plenty of male characters have kill options. I don't think it's a male/female thing. I think you just choose to see it that way because of the most recent events.

 

Just throwing this out there...but it's okay for Andronikos (the female SI's love interest) to show blatant disrespect for Sith and anything Sith and/or Imperial related (which is totes fine by me...my girl has a weakness for 'pub boys...it's like her guilty form of kryptonite)...but it's NOT okay for Ashara to do so? And depending on your conversations with her, she is no longer "blatantly disrespectful"? Mkay....this lead's me back to wanting to agree with IoNonSoEVero's assessment.

 

And, Andronikos *was* looking for the SI. It's bad writing. Completely bad writing. He *was* looking for her...for seven years. Tearing apart Eternal Fleet ships. (And seriously, the Fleet rapes both the Imperial and Republic fleets with a dry, splintered broom handle, and Andronikos is fine? Um...okey dokey). And even though she's been awake for two of those seven years...he had no idea she was alive. Because BioWare wrote it that way. So no, I don't see there being any reason for a SI to want to kill him. Because he was looking...BioWare just apparently wants us to think he's a total idiot.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Dracofish

[Lammia]

This.

 

And it's pretty telling that there hasn't been the same insistence in "it's the Sith Way OMG GUYZ!!" for the male companions. The same people that don't think a simple kill option for Ashara would have been enough, but want to enjoy abusing her, have not asked for that for Andronikos. So the Sith way doesn't cover him, too?

 

Two words: Malavai Quinn. For years.

 

ETA: Actually, four words: Malavai Quinn, Theron Shan. Many scream for their heads because it's "the Sith way". They are male companions.

 

ETA 2: Six words: Malavai Quinn, Theron Shan, Koth Vortena.

 

Seems like no, it's not limited only to female companions. On the contrary, they are under protection, because Ashara is alive, while 2 of the above not (one returned with the pure purpose of being murdered by edgelords, his fans be damned), the fate of the third one unknown yet.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Lammia

[casirabit]

Male Companions that can be killed:

Koth

Jordan

Quinn

Arcann

Theron(from all the indications he can be killed)

 

Female companions that can be killed:

Kayilo

Scorpio (Though I would classify her as a droid)

 

So it doesn't look like it is a female thing.

[rachetsw]

Two words: Malavai Quinn. For years.

 

ETA: Actually, four words: Malavai Quinn, Theron Shan. Many scream for their heads because it's "the Sith way". They are male companions.

 

ETA 2: Six words: Malavai Quinn, Theron Shan, Koth Vortena.

 

Seems like no, it's not limited only to female companions. On the contrary, they are under protection, because Ashara is alive, while 2 of the above not (one returned with the pure purpose of being murdered by edgelords, his fans be damned), the fate of the third one unknown yet.

 

How can two words cause so much pain? Oh wait, four words.

 

I am heartbroken right now Lammia, and it is your fault. I need ice cream.

 

Male Companions that can be killed:

Koth

Jordan

Quinn

Arcann

Theron(from all the indications he can be killed)

 

Female companions that can be killed:

Kayilo

Scorpio (Though I would classify her as a droid)

 

So it doesn't look like it is a female thing.

 

Torian and Vette can be killed too.

I really hope that all indications are wrong and that Theron can be removed from that list.

Edited April 19, 2018 by rachetsw