notanjelika Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 So i made a powertech, wanted a tank character. During class story I've noticed something that puzzles me , i'm curious to know you opinions : After i killed Kellian Jarro as the last target in Great Hunt, i left his padawan Thandys Noori alive. Soon i received a letter from her, urging me to surrender and answer for my crime. What crime?? I fought the Jedi master fair and square, he had a weapon and the possibility to defend himself, is not like he was tied to a chair or something. So, how is this making me a criminal? Isn't it a bit hypocritical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 So i made a powertech, wanted a tank character. During class story I've noticed something that puzzles me , i'm curious to know you opinions : After i killed Kellian Jarro as the last target in Great Hunt, i left his padawan Thandys Noori alive. Soon i received a letter from her, urging me to surrender and answer for my crime. What crime?? I fought the Jedi master fair and square, he had a weapon and the possibility to defend himself, is not like he was tied to a chair or something. So, how is this making me a criminal? Isn't it a bit hypocritical? You still murdered him. Sure, he was trying, at the same time, to murder you, but that doesn't make what you did less like murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notanjelika Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 You still murdered him. Sure, he was trying, at the same time, to murder you, but that doesn't make what you did less like murder. So it was murder even if it was a fair fight? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 So it was murder even if it was a fair fight? LOL Yes. Look up the definition of murder in a legal dictionary. It doesn't distinguish between, on the one hand, sneaking up behind someone and sticking a large knife between their ribs or breaking his head with a baseball bat, and on the other hand, going up against them in a fight, fair or not, and the fight ending up with the other person dead. (If you don't intend them to die, then some legal systems reduce the crime to manslaughter. A different list of systems might also mitigate the crime by allowing you to assert "self-defence".) And most legal systems differentiate between murdering ordinary people and murdering law enforcement officials. The latter category would, I'd suggest, include the Jedi. I would also suggest that the tone of moral outrage in the letter might not be appropriate (that is, it's a crime for sure, but doesn't automatically make the character is debased pit of moral depravity). I guess I'm making a distinction between a moralistic and legalistic sense of something being a crime. In the legalistic sense, it is, indeed, murder, but perhaps not in the moralistic sense that the Padawan is probably intending. There's a secondary consideration, which might make the moralistic sense of a crime more accurate. I've only done that sequence twice, and not recently, and I don't remember if you defeat him and then kill him after a few words, or if his death is part of the fight. If the latter, then the moral outrage is misplaced. If the former, then yes, you murdered a defeated and helpless person, and the moral outrage is entirely appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCobalt Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Your character attacked them for no justifiable reason resulting in their death; That's the epitome of murder. Whether they're armed, trying to defend them self or not its still murder, big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notanjelika Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 Your character attacked them for no justifiable reason resulting in their death; That's the epitome of murder. Whether they're armed, trying to defend them self or not its still murder, big time. No justifiable reason? He is a target on the Black List, he killed a lot of Mandalorians, so eventually the past caught up with him. So if a jedi kills someone is "justice", but when someone kills a jedi is "murder"? Guess i was right, theres huge hypocrisy in Thandys Noori's letter.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCobalt Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I doubt if the Imperial or Republic legals would consider a Bounty Hunters Kill List as "legal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notanjelika Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 I doubt if the Imperial or Republic legals would consider a Bounty Hunters Kill List as "legal". What Adeline Marr did - killing the unarmed and defenseless Bloodworthy and Jewl'a Nightbringer was legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 This is precisely why I can't do the BH story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seireeni Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 You infiltrated a Republic warship with the full intent of killing someone aboard. Of course people from the Republic are gonna call that murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 No justifiable reason? He is a target on the Black List, he killed a lot of Mandalorians, so eventually the past caught up with him. So if a jedi kills someone is "justice", but when someone kills a jedi is "murder"? Guess i was right, theres huge hypocrisy in Thandys Noori's letter.. The killing of Mandalorians was in wars (and likely the defense of others). He didn't go hunting them. The Bounty Hunter's list is an assassination list (whether the Hunter or Mako want to admit it or not). Let's look at some of the other targets. Go kill the Moff who killed Mando's in war. That Moff didn't just go out murdering Mando's for killing sake. It was war. Same with the Jedi. Mando's, they like to go out and kill for the fun of it. They think it's okay, if it's a fair fight (or even if it isn't, so long as they think it is), as they think it's honorable. Still murder. Doesn't matter if it's a cop doing his job and they didn't like the cop who did their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notanjelika Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 You infiltrated a Republic warship with the full intent of killing someone aboard. Of course people from the Republic are gonna call that murder. If you remember, you do not infiltrate the Aurora, they use a tractor beam to forcefully bring your ship into Aurora's hangar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seireeni Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 If you remember, you do not infiltrate the Aurora, they use a tractor beam to forcefully bring your ship into Aurora's hangar. Well, I didn't remember. But the point was, you still intentionally went there to kill him. It's not like you were escaping imprisonment and he just happened to be on your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSkate Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Well, I didn't remember. But the point was, you still intentionally went there to kill him. It's not like you were escaping imprisonment and he just happened to be on your way. I do not consider killing someone that deserves/needs killing as murder. Sometimes a fool just needs to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I do not consider killing someone that deserves/needs killing as murder. Sometimes a fool just needs to die. Of course, the Jedi didn't do anything foolish to deserve to die. Mando's wanted war and lost. They then got butt-hurt about it and put the Jedi on a kill list, because if you can't beat someone in a war, you hire an assassin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCobalt Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Its first degree Murder. That character made plans and executed a series of steps to accomplish that, Premeditated. The B.H. is Not a Soldier carrying out orders, Not a Gov't Agent acting on Legal security measures. The B.H is a citizen same as the Smuggler. As long as the Mandolorians are doing the dirty jobs the Empire doesn't want to ofcourse they'll (Empire) will let them hang around (Until they're nolonger useful (Akavi's Clan)). Just murder; that war ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonVII Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I will mention a certain point of view. And leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notanjelika Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 I do not consider killing someone that deserves/needs killing as murder. Sometimes a fool just needs to die. Agreed. And Jun Seros deserved to die - he was very unbalanced and emotional for " an old respectable jedi", his biggest mistake was making everything personal - if you remember consular quest on Tython, one hologram of the founding members tells you to never take thing personal and avoid emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Agreed. And Jun Seros deserved to die - he was very unbalanced and emotional for " an old respectable jedi", his biggest mistake was making everything personal - if you remember consular quest on Tython, one hologram of the founding members tells you to never take thing personal and avoid emotions. That doesn't make him a murderer, that just makes him a crotchety old man For all the Jedi talk, almost none of them (Even the masters) are ever able to take things 100% by the code. That however, doesn't mean it wasn't murder. Hunter murdered. Hunter needs to be brought in. The Hunter story is never one about them being some big hero. They're a gun for hire, who may or may not be looked at as a hero by some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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