HK-55 false advertising as of 01/07/18

[LordFell]

I'm really struggling to wrap my head around a lot of this, and I need a little bit of help understanding something...

 

Ok, so, a little about me...it'll be relevant by the end, I promise.

 

I just recently (early December) came back to the game after a very long absence.

I felt that everything you had to say was on point and very worth reading.

 

While I do not completely oppose re-skins I don't think it's a solution that will actually change anything. There is already an attainable option to HK-55 with the 51 model. That isn't resolving the issue and I doubt more re-skins will have a different result. Not saying it isn't a suggestion worth looking into, I'm just pointing out that it's pretty much already been implemented and it doesn't seem to have worked.

I wanted to address the notion of Re-skins, so I'm not specifically responding to you, per se, mostly I'm quoting you to give my following thoughts some context to the conversation.

 

I'm going to use an analogy, to explain why I don't care for the idea of re-skins. One of my areas of expertise is watches, I've done sales and technical work in the area... and, I regularly see fake watches or "off branded" products. By this I mean... someone can't afford a Gucci watch, so they buy a Cucci watch. There's definitely a market for these Cucci products... someone likes the look of a Gucci, but they don't have the 5K it costs, so they buy a similar looking Cucci watch for 20 bucks. Absolutely no one in their right-mind is going to go to Gucci and suggest that they make an off-brand product. "Hey, Gucci, I can't afford your watches, but I like them. Can you make a cheap knock off of your model L-900? kthxbye."

 

Compare and contrast with:

"Hey, SWTOR, I really like Shae Vizla, but I missed that promotion. Can you make me a similar companion that I can have called Bae Shizla or something?"

 

 

Anyways....

I still contend (as someone who has HK-55, Shae Vizla, Nico Okarr, etc) that it's entirely legitimate for people who missed out to say "I want those things." I do not agree, and never will that a legitimate reason for denying these people is "I don't want you to have that." Throughout the histories of North America....

(and I'm reluctant to get political, but it's kind of the best analogy, but I'll be vague in hopes of not rustling any jimmies)

...groups of people have said that they want to enjoy the rights, freedoms and privileges that other groups had enjoyed since ever. In every instance, the governing and judicial bodies have always come down in favour. "I have this thing, but I don't want you to have this thing" is just not a valid argument against.

 

You were never promised exclusivity. Your things (my things, too) aren't any less special if you (we) share them.

[LordArtemis]

I like the concept that you propose.

 

Is your proposal "going forward" or would you expect it to be retroactive?

 

Ill answer your other posts later, as I think we are making progress there, but I wanted to answer this one right away. Yes, it would be retroactive. Any and all players, former players and current would be eligible for this systems rewards depending on how long they have subbed.

 

I feel, personally, that this would be a huge draw to former players AND would encourage folks to sub and stay subbed.

 

As to the mention of not really wanting reskins posted by other folks, I would like to comment on that.

 

I am of the opinion that a reskin would work to draw back former players IF it included the original mission as well. The voice over would be the same....it would essentially be HK-55 in new duds. Part of the rebuild lets say.

 

I might even change the appearance of the secondary droid in the mission as well the name. IMO this provides two things...

 

Access to a HK droid that is much easier than the original grind AND the new droid and access to the prior mission AS WELL AS a way to retain exclusivity for those that have it currently.

 

The question then becomes this....in order to satisfy those that already qualified, do we put the original requirements in place? That is what I would prefer, since it would encourage folks to sub and stay subbed.

Edited January 22, 2018 by LordArtemis

[CrutchCricket]

 

I wanted to address the notion of Re-skins, so I'm not specifically responding to you, per se, mostly I'm quoting you to give my following thoughts some context to the conversation.

 

I'm going to use an analogy, to explain why I don't care for the idea of re-skins. One of my areas of expertise is watches, I've done sales and technical work in the area... and, I regularly see fake watches or "off branded" products. By this I mean... someone can't afford a Gucci watch, so they buy a Cucci watch. There's definitely a market for these Cucci products... someone likes the look of a Gucci, but they don't have the 5K it costs, so they buy a similar looking Cucci watch for 20 bucks. Absolutely no one in their right-mind is going to go to Gucci and suggest that they make an off-brand product. "Hey, Gucci, I can't afford your watches, but I like them. Can you make a cheap knock off of your model L-900? kthxbye."

 

Compare and contrast with:

"Hey, SWTOR, I really like Shae Vizla, but I missed that promotion. Can you make me a similar companion that I can have called Bae Shizla or something?"

 

 

Anyways....

I still contend (as someone who has HK-55, Shae Vizla, Nico Okarr, etc) that it's entirely legitimate for people who missed out to say "I want those things." I do not agree, and never will that a legitimate reason for denying these people is "I don't want you to have that." Throughout the histories of North America....

(and I'm reluctant to get political, but it's kind of the best analogy, but I'll be vague in hopes of not rustling any jimmies)

...groups of people have said that they want to enjoy the rights, freedoms and privileges that other groups had enjoyed since ever. In every instance, the governing and judicial bodies have always come down in favour. "I have this thing, but I don't want you to have this thing" is just not a valid argument against.

 

You were never promised exclusivity. Your things (my things, too) aren't any less special if you (we) share them.

Exceedingly well put. And again, in case it was missed (or studiously ignored), reskins do not address the question. The demand is not for "Cucci watch" products; a droid companion, a female Mando companion or a notSpaceCowboy smuggler companion and so on, but rather for the real deal: Hk-55, Shae Vizla, Nico Okarr etc.

 

The arguments for the reintroduction of these items is a) fan demand and b) recapitalization on existing assets leading to more profit for practically no effort. Reskins do not address those arguments. The argument against is based on some assumed idea of exclusivity. The rebuttal of said exclusivity (namely it being demonstrably false) and its net weight being less than that of the benefits of re-introduction is also not addressed by reskins.

 

All reskins do is enforce the side against, namely the side of arbitrary exclusivity for the "specialness" feelings of a few. It is not a middle ground or a compromise at all. It is in fact, a false olive branch.

 

A suggestion like my tagging or flair to denote "generations" of these rewards on the other hand, is an actual compromise. It allows the "specialness exclusive" crowd to keep its selfsame token (and a token is all it is anyway) while those who may be enticed to support the game by the reintroduction of these limited time rewards may a) get their wish and b) generate some more cash for the company, again at zero effort on their part. I do not see a loss here, in any reasonable mind.

[culwinthelost]

Wow, this thread just needs to be shut down.

 

This is never going to be resolved.

 

Break it down for the people who want HK-55: you don't need him. There are 8 or so companions that you can get and level up with the ultra cheap companion gifts that were available for a while. Nobody promised to bring him back and lets be honest, you're never going to convince the snobs that they do not deserve exclusive right to him forever because they are better than the rest of us.

 

Break it down for the long time subscribers: get over yourselves. Nobody promised you anything for your subscription time except the gifts you got then. They never promised you would be the only ones forever to get them. For those insulting people who might have just missed subscribing for a month because they were between jobs this just makes you seem like snobs (and that's being polite).

 

Devs: just shut this one down please, it's pointless.

[Ratajack]

Exceedingly well put. And again, in case it was missed (or studiously ignored), reskins do not address the question. The demand is not for "Cucci watch" products; a droid companion, a female Mando companion or a notSpaceCowboy smuggler companion and so on, but rather for the real deal: Hk-55, Shae Vizla, Nico Okarr etc.

 

The arguments for the reintroduction of these items is a) fan demand and b) recapitalization on existing assets leading to more profit for practically no effort. Reskins do not address those arguments. The argument against is based on some assumed idea of exclusivity. The rebuttal of said exclusivity (namely it being demonstrably false) and its net weight being less than that of the benefits of re-introduction is also not addressed by reskins.

 

All reskins do is enforce the side against, namely the side of arbitrary exclusivity for the "specialness" feelings of a few. It is not a middle ground or a compromise at all. It is in fact, a false olive branch.

 

A suggestion like my tagging or flair to denote "generations" of these rewards on the other hand, is an actual compromise. It allows the "specialness exclusive" crowd to keep its selfsame token (and a token is all it is anyway) while those who may be enticed to support the game by the reintroduction of these limited time rewards may a) get their wish and b) generate some more cash for the company, again at zero effort on their part. I do not see a loss here, in any reasonable mind.

 

Given BW's history with regards to the overwhelmingly vast majority of past subscriber rewards and other rewards, reskins may be all that is offered, no matter how loudly or how long the "I want that EXACT shiny that Billy has. A blue ball is not good enough because Billy has a red one." crowd clamors on the forums.

 

You may call it a false olive branch, but if the choice is a reskin or nothing, which would you prefer? Remember that BW makes that call, not you, not me and not any other player.

 

BW has shown many times that they are more than willing to offer reskins, but the overwhelming history has shown that they VERY seldom will offer past rewards in their original form again.

 

Sure, people can cling to that daggerstar, but one item in a sea of items is usually and exception, an oddity or an aberration, and not the norm.

 

Can BW change their stance and make that the norm? Yes, but they have so shown no inclination to do so, despite all the spam threads asking for this reward or that reward to be made available again.

 

That, of course, does not stop the continued pestering of the devs driven by what boils down to nothing more than the green eyed monster that apparently consumes so many.

[CrutchCricket]

Given BW's history with regards to the overwhelmingly vast majority of past subscriber rewards and other rewards, reskins may be all that is offered, no matter how loudly or how long the "I want that EXACT shiny that Billy has. A blue ball is not good enough because Billy has a red one." crowd clamors on the forums.

 

You may call it a false olive branch, but if the choice is a reskin or nothing, which would you prefer? Remember that BW makes that call, not you, not me and not any other player.

Oh I'm not the one that needs reminding ol'buddy. But by my count, originals are one up on reskins:

Originals- Daggerstar, 12xp (well, technically 12xp was enhanced the second time around, but that's not the change you were looking for I bet).

Reskin: Party Jawa.

 

Do keep in mind the active suppression of the demand for these things on this forum up until recently. That along with the admittedly unique opening of the banner mistake and the official noting of demand by the devs.

 

I said it before, the times they are a-changin. You've been here a while, you know what that's like.

 

But anyway, this isn't about you. Or me. This thread is still stumbling now and then but it is progressing the discussion. I've summarized why reskins don't address the question and given what I genuinely consider a fair compromise. We should really take it from there, instead of derailing to go in well trod circles, yet again.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

I think almost any of the past subscriber rewards would meet your first criteria, but I doubt that any of those past subscriber rewards would meet your second criteria.

 

If you wish to use items that have already been designed, then i would suggest reskinned, recolored and renamed versions of those past subscriber rewards. I do not know for sure, but I would guess that it is far easier and cheaper to recolor something that has already been designed than it is to design something new from the ground up.

 

These reskins would likely also have the advantage of meeting your second criteria.

 

That second criteria is extremely subjective, though. Take, for instance, the two of us. You clearly have an issue with those rewards being reissued. I have all of them and I don't have an issue with it at all. They don't need to be reskinned, renamed, whatever, it doesn't bother me if they reissue those rewards so long as that reissue doesn't negatively change my access to them. Not everybody that has these rewards is going to be upset if they're reissued.

 

Adding them to a hopefully permanent subscriber reward program would be a great step, in my opinion, and they could easily add some extra things for those of us that have already qualified. New customizations for the companions or bonus CC for "loyalty" (or, preferably, both). That way the people already qualified get something new, whether that be via the extra CCs or the customizations, while newer players just get access to the older content that they otherwise haven't had access to.

 

I'd just like to see them do something with this content, as it's clear there's more money to be made with it and this game desperately needs a shot in the arm. I see no good reason to keep them locked away. It's a waste of the development time spent making them.

[DuchessKristania]

Wow, this thread just needs to be shut down.

 

This is never going to be resolved.

 

Break it down for the people who want HK-55: you don't need him. There are 8 or so companions that you can get and level up with the ultra cheap companion gifts that were available for a while. Nobody promised to bring him back and lets be honest, you're never going to convince the snobs that they do not deserve exclusive right to him forever because they are better than the rest of us.

 

Break it down for the long time subscribers: get over yourselves. Nobody promised you anything for your subscription time except the gifts you got then. They never promised you would be the only ones forever to get them. For those insulting people who might have just missed subscribing for a month because they were between jobs this just makes you seem like snobs (and that's being polite).

 

Devs: just shut this one down please, it's pointless.

 

Actually, I disagree. Yes, things have gotten heated at times, but if you'll look, even those vehemently defending a standpoint have calmly discussed finding a middle ground. Will we find a solution everyone agrees on? Eh, probably not but I do think that there's been a real push for open dialogue and that's a good thing. I believe that if we can have rational and open minded discussion the devs are more likely to take note and that's good for game health.

 

I mean, I get where you're coming from though. It seems to be a pretty trigger happy topic. I think if it just gets shut down the problem will simply simmer and explode in the form of another thread. If someone on the dev team steps in and says x,y,z is what applies than that would be better. It's not going to happen, but this is one where I think it would be good for them to post a definitive answer.

[jimmorrisson]

I would rather see HK-51's obnoxiously long mission be streamlined, slimmed down.

 

For example remove the parts finding expedition portion - just keeping the story. The Theorika aspect is more than enough maze challenge for the player.

 

Nerf HK-51 mission.

 

Also previous subscriber rewards should be offered as future subscriber rewards.

Edited January 23, 2018 by jimmorrisson

[Ratajack]

Oh I'm not the one that needs reminding ol'buddy. But by my count, originals are one up on reskins:

Originals- Daggerstar, 12xp (well, technically 12xp was enhanced the second time around, but that's not the change you were looking for I bet).

Reskin: Party Jawa.

 

Do keep in mind the active suppression of the demand for these things on this forum up until recently. That along with the admittedly unique opening of the banner mistake and the official noting of demand by the devs.

 

I said it before, the times they are a-changin. You've been here a while, you know what that's like.

 

But anyway, this isn't about you. Or me. This thread is still stumbling now and then but it is progressing the discussion. I've summarized why reskins don't address the question and given what I genuinely consider a fair compromise. We should really take it from there, instead of derailing to go in well trod circles, yet again.

 

 

 

I guess you conveniently forgot about the Senya Holostatue (Hutt Holotrainer reskin). The Hutt holotrainer was a pre-order reward and not a subscriber reward, but it still remains exclusive to those that pre-ordered that expansion.

 

I've not done a count, but I would guess that rewards not being made available again are up by more than double digits over rewards that have been made available again, although not all of those rewards are subscriber rewards.

 

Not available again include, but are not limited to:

 

Hutt holotrainer

HK-55

Hk-55 weapons

HK-55 jet pack

HK-55 bonus chapter

HK-55 helmet

Nico Okarr

Nico's duster

Nico's blasters

Shae Vizla

Party Jawa

Gannifari

HK-55 ship droid customizations

Eternal Empire patroller mount

HK-55 victory stronghold decoration

 

 

Available again:

 

Daggerstar

[Ratajack]

Actually, I disagree. Yes, things have gotten heated at times, but if you'll look, even those vehemently defending a standpoint have calmly discussed finding a middle ground. Will we find a solution everyone agrees on? Eh, probably not but I do think that there's been a real push for open dialogue and that's a good thing. I believe that if we can have rational and open minded discussion the devs are more likely to take note and that's good for game health.

 

I mean, I get where you're coming from though. It seems to be a pretty trigger happy topic. I think if it just gets shut down the problem will simply simmer and explode in the form of another thread. If someone on the dev team steps in and says x,y,z is what applies than that would be better. It's not going to happen, but this is one where I think it would be good for them to post a definitive answer.

 

The devs could make a statement that past rewards will not be offered again, and people would still be making threads "I know you said 'No' on this date, but what about now? How about now? Have you changed your mind yet?"

 

There would still be those who acknowledge that BW has already given their answer, but they are just asking for a different answer now.

 

I can't say that I blame the devs for staying away from this one.

 

All one needs to do is a quick forum search using terms such Nico Okarr, HK-55, Shroud of Memory, Shae Vizla or subscriber rewards to see that these "requests" have been made numerous times for years, and while BW may never have come out and used the exact word "No", most reasonable people would realize that their answer has been a pretty consistent "No", even if that "No" was unspoken or unwritten. That answer of "No" has not stopped all the continued pestering of the devs and the spam threads from people "expressing interest" in those past rewards or "just looking for a different answer now", though.

 

If this topic seems to be a "trigger happy" topic, a quick forum search using any or all of the the aforementioned terms would probably give one insight as to why.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

The devs could make a statement that past rewards will not be offered again, and people would still be making threads "I know you said 'No' on this date, but what about now? How about now? Have you changed your mind yet?"

 

There would still be those who acknowledge that BW has already given their answer, but they are just asking for a different answer now.

 

I can't say that I blame the devs for staying away from this one.

 

All one needs to do is a quick forum search using terms such Nico Okarr, HK-55, Shroud of Memory, Shae Vizla or subscriber rewards to see that these "requests" have been made numerous times for years, and while BW may never have come out and used the exact word "No", most reasonable people would realize that their answer has been a pretty consistent "No", even if that "No" was unspoken or unwritten. That answer of "No" has not stopped all the continued pestering of the devs and the spam threads from people "expressing interest" in those past rewards or "just looking for a different answer now", though.

 

If this topic seems to be a "trigger happy" topic, a quick forum search using any or all of the the aforementioned terms would probably give one insight as to why.

 

The fact that they haven't said anything doesn't mean their answer is "no." If anything, their response in this topic proves that, or Eric wouldn't have included that "unrelated note" at the end of his post. He could have said "it was a bug" and left it at that. But he didn't.

 

So, I'm sorry, you can keep repeating that as many times as you like, until you're blue in the face, Bioware has not answered no. They haven't released the rewards in question yet, but that doesn't mean they won't and until they do answer with a no, nobody is in the wrong for requesting they bring those rewards back.

 

If they did actually say no, then maybe you'd have an argument, but trying to say "Oh, well, they've basically said no" is ridiculous. You're just trying to shut down people's suggestions because you disagree with them, just as you have been in previous pages by insulting people, calling them whiners, calling them entitled, calling them "Johnnys". Stop. People are allowed to make suggestions, even if Ratajack disagrees with them.

[Sareeph]

Exceedingly well put. And again, in case it was missed (or studiously ignored), reskins do not address the question. The demand is not for "Cucci watch" products; a droid companion, a female Mando companion or a notSpaceCowboy smuggler companion and so on, but rather for the real deal: Hk-55, Shae Vizla, Nico Okarr etc.

 

The arguments for the reintroduction of these items is a) fan demand and b) recapitalization on existing assets leading to more profit for practically no effort. Reskins do not address those arguments. The argument against is based on some assumed idea of exclusivity. The rebuttal of said exclusivity (namely it being demonstrably false) and its net weight being less than that of the benefits of re-introduction is also not addressed by reskins.

All reskins do is enforce the side against, namely the side of arbitrary exclusivity for the "specialness" feelings of a few. It is not a middle ground or a compromise at all. It is in fact, a false olive branch.

 

A suggestion like my tagging or flair to denote "generations" of these rewards on the other hand, is an actual compromise. It allows the "specialness exclusive" crowd to keep its selfsame token (and a token is all it is anyway) while those who may be enticed to support the game by the reintroduction of these limited time rewards may a) get their wish and b) generate some more cash for the company, again at zero effort on their part. I do not see a loss here, in any reasonable mind.

 

By stipulating specific terms of continuous subscription between specific dates ( January 11 - August 1, 2016 ), EA/BW in fact did imply exclusivity. Implied exclusivity is contractually binding. EA/BW knows this which is why the Party Jawa rewarded for being a subscriber during the launch of the F2P event was "RESKINNED" later as the Celebration Jawa. Terms and Conditions do not have to specifically state exclusivity to actually grant exclusivity.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

By stipulating specific terms of continuous subscription between specific dates ( January 11 - August 1, 2016 ), EA/BW in fact did imply exclusivity. Implied exclusivity is contractually binding. EA/BW knows this which is why the Party Jawa rewarded for being a subscriber during the launch of the F2P event was "RESKINNED" later as the Celebration Jawa. Terms and Conditions do not have to specifically state exclusivity to actually grant exclusivity.

 

It isn't contractually binding, they've already rereleased a sub reward that required a subscription between specific dates (see the Kakkran Daggerstar swoop bike that's been brought up previously). That was part of the same sub reward program as Nico, which had the same terms as the other promotions they did afterward, so it doesn't seem to be a legal issue.

[LordFell]

By stipulating specific terms of continuous subscription between specific dates ( January 11 - August 1, 2016 ), EA/BW in fact did imply exclusivity. Implied exclusivity is contractually binding. EA/BW knows this which is why the Party Jawa rewarded for being a subscriber during the launch of the F2P event was "RESKINNED" later as the Celebration Jawa. Terms and Conditions do not have to specifically state exclusivity to actually grant exclusivity.

Implied anything is NOT contractually binding, because it's based entirely on interpretation. Only things which are explicitly stated can be considered to be a binding contract.

 

What the past promotions have said, is that "if you subscribe between this date and that date, you will get this reward." Where the distinction becomes explicit, is that since no one can travel in time, that promotion is exclusive. However, as with everyone else... you are confusing Promotion with Product. If Bioware had instead offered bonus Cartel Coins with the promotion, or a Rare Dye Module... or something of the sort... you (should) understand why your claim that the PRODUCT is exclusive is ridiculous... because to do so would be operating under the ridiculous notion that there's no longer anyway to buy Cartel Coins or White on White Dye modules (etc). Obviously you can; those things aren't exclusive, they're readily available in the cash shop. A promotion that takes any item out of the Cartel Market (say, the Konsaur Monocycle) and offers it free based on some criteria doesn't suddenly make that item any more exclusive than it was before it was offered in a promotion.

 

TL/DR: Promotion != Product. Being part of an exclusive promotion doesn't make the associated product exclusive.

Edited January 23, 2018 by LordFell

[ArdeliaAgain]

By stipulating specific terms of continuous subscription between specific dates ( January 11 - August 1, 2016 ), EA/BW in fact did imply exclusivity. Implied exclusivity is contractually binding. EA/BW knows this which is why the Party Jawa rewarded for being a subscriber during the launch of the F2P event was "RESKINNED" later as the Celebration Jawa. Terms and Conditions do not have to specifically state exclusivity to actually grant exclusivity.

 

Implied exclusivity CAN be ruled to be contractually binding, depending on the context of the contract, additional stipulations, and the demonstrated behavior and intentions of both parties.

 

...all of which might possibly be relevant if we had a contract with EA. We don't; we have a license agreement (which, by the way, is specified to be non-exclusive...one of the elements of the above context).

 

We done playing armchair attorney?

[DuchessKristania]

Ratajack, I can tell from several of your posts that you enjoy stirring the pot and that you are not always as tactful as you could be. More than once you have attempted to bait me away from an open-minded discussion and tried to drag me into an argument. I'm going to be frank with you because I have seen LordArtemis do the same and it seems to be what you respond best too.

 

I am not interested in bickering with you. I am interested in an open discussion between adults on both sides of the issue. I am interested in solution oriented conversation. I will and have read your responses that are in this vein. I have and will continue to disregard any response, be it from you or anyone else, that uses demeaning language like crying, whining, (two terms I hae seen you use frequently) elitist, entitled, snobs. I'm not interested in name calling, I'm not interesting in fighting to prove a point. Now, if you would like to continue to try to sidetrack my support of open dialogue that's on you. However, this is the only time I intend to respond to such behavior and will simply ignore any further attempts.

Edited January 23, 2018 by DuchessKristania

[Ratajack]

Implied anything is NOT contractually binding, because it's based entirely on interpretation. Only things which are explicitly stated can be considered to be a binding contract.

 

That is wrong.

 

Here is just one example in which there was nothing explicitly stated, only implicitly stated, yet the court ruled that implicit agreement was binding.

 

What the past promotions have said, is that "if you subscribe between this date and that date, you will get this reward." Where the distinction becomes explicit, is that since no one can travel in time, that promotion is exclusive. However, as with everyone else... you are confusing Promotion with Product. If Bioware had instead offered bonus Cartel Coins with the promotion, or a Rare Dye Module... or something of the sort... you (should) understand why your claim that the PRODUCT is exclusive is ridiculous... because to do so would be operating under the ridiculous notion that there's no longer anyway to buy Cartel Coins or White on White Dye modules (etc). Obviously you can; those things aren't exclusive, they're readily available in the cash shop. A promotion that takes any item out of the Cartel Market (say, the Konsaur Monocycle) and offers it free based on some criteria doesn't suddenly make that item any more exclusive than it was before it was offered in a promotion.

 

TL/DR: Promotion != Product. Being part of an exclusive promotion doesn't make the associated product exclusive.

 

You are only promotions can be exclusive and that is not the case.

 

Exclusive promotions can also use exclusive products as rewards, even if those "products" are not explicitly stated as exclusive.

 

Try going to a ball game with a give away promotion for the first 1500 people through the gates, and asking for the product from last year's promotion. Let me know how that works out for you.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

That is wrong.

 

Here is just one example in which there was nothing explicitly stated, only implicitly stated, yet the court ruled that implicit agreement was binding.

 

 

 

You are only promotions can be exclusive and that is not the case.

 

Exclusive promotions can also use exclusive products as rewards, even if those "products" are not explicitly stated as exclusive.

 

Try going to a ball game with a give away promotion for the first 1500 people through the gates, and asking for the product from last year's promotion. Let me know how that works out for you.

 

Again, this is all moot because they've already rereleased one of these rewards before. Other situations with other companies give no direct insight on Bioware/EA's situation, but the situation from this game where a previous sub reward was rereleased (and thus, was not exclusive) shows that the issue is not a legal issue.

 

EDIT: Reworded for clarity.

Edited January 23, 2018 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[Sareeph]

It isn't contractually binding, they've already rereleased a sub reward that required a subscription between specific dates (see the Kakkran Daggerstar swoop bike that's been brought up previously). That was part of the same sub reward program as Nico, which had the same terms as the other promotions they did afterward, so it doesn't seem to be a legal issue.

 

That speeder was received by going to their promotion page and entering a code for free. Nothing about being a sub.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

That speeder was received by going to their promotion page and entering a code for free. Nothing about being a sub.

 

That speeder was the last sub reward for KOTFE's original release, this has been shown before. The KOTFE page has since been updated, but here's an archive of the original to show the original rewards. Nico, his blasters, his duster, and then the swoop bike. It was the exact same speeder, no rename, no reskin. I know this because I didn't use the code when it was released since I already had the speeder from the KOTFE promotion.

Edited January 23, 2018 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[LordArtemis]

Ok, the thread is devolving again. Lets try and move forward, table the "exclusivity" argument for now in favor of finding some alternatives in the discussion.

 

I am not abandoning the idea of offering Hk-55 and the mission again, just looking at some alternatives that might be better for all involved. My goal is to find something popular that will draw back new players but will take little to no work to implement, and frankly I don't really care WHAT that is, as long as it works.

 

So, moving forward....The HK-55 reskin and rename....would it be ok to include the mission as well, as long as the droid in the mission is also reskinned (and perhaps renamed)?

 

Also, of a block contiguous subscription requirement and a reward based system that is non-contiguous but instead rewards at milestones, which one seems more appealing?

 

Finally, does anyone have any suggestions as to current game characters that may be interesting as offered companions? I mentioned Malgus and Orgus Din as blue glowies, perhaps there are others that may interest folks?

[DuchessKristania]

Ok, the thread is devolving again. Lets try and move forward, table the "exclusivity" argument for now in favor of finding some alternatives in the discussion.

 

I am not abandoning the idea of offering Hk-55 and the mission again, just looking at some alternatives that might be better for all involved. My goal is to find something popular that will draw back new players but will take little to no work to implement, and frankly I don't really care WHAT that is, as long as it works.

 

So, moving forward....The HK-55 reskin and rename....would it be ok to include the mission as well, as long as the droid in the mission is also reskinned (and perhaps renamed)?

 

Also, of a block contiguous subscription requirement and a reward based system that is non-contiguous but instead rewards at milestones, which one seems more appealing?

 

Finally, does anyone have any suggestions as to current game characters that may be interesting as offered companions? I mentioned Malgus and Orgus Din as blue glowies, perhaps there are others that may interest folks?

 

Ah, force ghost companions would be quite interesting. I am very much in favor of the subscription milestones idea. I think it provides a much more sustainable and long term solution. Maybe that's something we should just suggest to one of the devs? I'd be pretty excited to see something like that put into action. I'd only ask that pets weren't included as one of the rewards, lol. I have so many tiny astromechs spinning around my strongholds.Okay, fine, I admit I bought the pink one because it amused me, lol.

Edited January 23, 2018 by DuchessKristania

[Ratajack]

Ok, the thread is devolving again. Lets try and move forward, table the "exclusivity" argument for now in favor of finding some alternatives in the discussion.

 

I am not abandoning the idea of offering Hk-55 and the mission again, just looking at some alternatives that might be better for all involved. My goal is to find something popular that will draw back new players but will take little to no work to implement, and frankly I don't really care WHAT that is, as long as it works.

 

So, moving forward....The HK-55 reskin and rename....would it be ok to include the mission as well, as long as the droid in the mission is also reskinned (and perhaps renamed)?

 

While I think that a better alternative would be a different chapter using those reskinned companions, I recognize that BW might not be willing to expend the resources for that different chapter.

 

If a new chapter were cost/resource prohibitive, then reusing the existing bonus chapter with the reskinned companions would be an acceptable compromise, IMO, even though I would prefer a new different chapter with those reskinned companions.

 

 

Also, of a block contiguous subscription requirement and a reward based system that is non-contiguous but instead rewards at milestones, which one seems more appealing?

 

I don't think it has to be one or the other.

 

I think both types of systems have their advantages. During "content droughts", the continuous subscription model or time specific reward model could be better for BW, but the "total time subscribed, even non continuous" would still allow players to be rewarded. This is why I think it is better to run both "veteran reward" and "time specific reward" systems concurrently, with the rewards being similar but different.

 

I go back to all of those players who openly bragged about unsubscribing during KotFE with the plan to resub for one month to get access to all the remaining chapters, dismissing the HK-55 chapter as being "garbage", despite knowing nothing about it.

 

After the bonus chapter was released, and was met with the acclaim that it garnered, how many of those players immediately started clamoring for a "second chance" to acquire access to that chapter? How many of those same players are now clamoring to get their hands on that chapter they CHOSE not to obtain?

[jimmorrisson]

I was one of the apparent few who appreciated the HK inspired gear subscriber gifts with the only issues taken being:

 

HK Helmet no longer legacy

No HK armor, gloves, pants, boots

 

HK Weapon Set's sword is main hand only along with no blaster rifle included.

 

HK-inspired Ship Droid customization not inspired enough - the head markings should match the HK.

Edited January 25, 2018 by jimmorrisson