Death of a Game.

[Tsillah]

This and better yet Star Wars is dying.

 

Battlefront 2 is the biggest bomb in gaming. TLJ is hated by most of the fanbase, and TOR is on maintenance mode and I wouldn't be shocked if they come out and say it's shutting down very soon.

Yes BF2 was a scandal and it certainly hurt their sales enough to make a difference but it still made them money make no mistake.

 

However, it is true that the question is raised what EA have done with their Disney License for SW. Now SWTOR was out before that deal so I kinda set it aside, but what they've brought out is BF1 and BF2 and this GoH game. For about 5 years and that expensive a deal it seems pretty poor.

 

When they said last year that they stopped Visceral's game because gamers don't like linear or single players anymore the rest of the game industry reacted with a "wait, wut???" because everybody else is still making them so it's a load of bull. They've also completely derailed Bioware with this new direction. Bioware was good at that stuff and now EA wants them to do stuff that a lot of players don't want and isn't really Bioware's thing to begin with. EA just wanted the microtransactions and live services as platform for that.

 

I'd say that EA is really taking the piss with Star Wars and I hope Disney takes note that their way of doing business is anything but family-friendly. Cause that's what's killing Star Wars in the game industry right now.

 

With that, after seeing Visceral being puked out, Bioware might be next if they don't score big with Anthem. And I wonder how well they can do with Anthem because it's basically like a 3rd person version of Destiny. I remember when SWTOR came out that one of the problems was that as far as QoL and general options the game was just really basic. They thought that people would accept that because it was new and SW, but that didn't fly with a lot of players. They expected to be able to have legacy storages and guild options right from the start.

 

Now with Destiny 2 being out and fleshing out their game over the next year, I wonder if BW will make that same exact mistake they did with SWTOR. Cause if Anthem is another loot crate fest with very basic options to start with, people are going run away again.

 

If that happens EA probably will be done with the Bioware name because it's already lost a lot of reputation and that would pretty much doom them I think. And that would be a shame.

 

So I think there's a lot more in play than just this game to be honest.

[countdemons]

I dont usually defend bioware but if you look at EA's financial statements, they clearly say FIFA and SWTOR is a massive ammount of their income, 55% if I remember. Taking into account how many pies EA has its fingers in, 55% of its income on two titles? No chance EA is pulling the plug on that. Quite the opposite.

 

I won't watch the video. It will just be some fan boy dribbling on as if he was chief dev of the world.

 

The fact I just stated above is all you need to know. Money makes the world go round and it makes EA hard.

 

SWTOR isn't dying.

 

End of thread

[_Tarkus_]

Yes BF2 was a scandal and it certainly hurt their sales enough to make a difference but it still made them money make no mistake.

 

However, it is true that the question is raised what EA have done with their Disney License for SW. Now SWTOR was out before that deal so I kinda set it aside, but what they've brought out is BF1 and BF2 and this GoH game. For about 5 years and that expensive a deal it seems pretty poor.

 

When they said last year that they stopped Visceral's game because gamers don't like linear or single players anymore the rest of the game industry reacted with a "wait, wut???" because everybody else is still making them so it's a load of bull. They've also completely derailed Bioware with this new direction. Bioware was good at that stuff and now EA wants them to do stuff that a lot of players don't want and isn't really Bioware's thing to begin with. EA just wanted the microtransactions and live services as platform for that.

 

I'd say that EA is really taking the piss with Star Wars and I hope Disney takes note that their way of doing business is anything but family-friendly. Cause that's what's killing Star Wars in the game industry right now.

 

With that, after seeing Visceral being puked out, Bioware might be next if they don't score big with Anthem. And I wonder how well they can do with Anthem because it's basically like a 3rd person version of Destiny. I remember when SWTOR came out that one of the problems was that as far as QoL and general options the game was just really basic. They thought that people would accept that because it was new and SW, but that didn't fly with a lot of players. They expected to be able to have legacy storages and guild options right from the start.

 

Now with Destiny 2 being out and fleshing out their game over the next year, I wonder if BW will make that same exact mistake they did with SWTOR. Cause if Anthem is another loot crate fest with very basic options to start with, people are going run away again.

 

If that happens EA probably will be done with the Bioware name because it's already lost a lot of reputation and that would pretty much doom them I think. And that would be a shame.

 

So I think there's a lot more in play than just this game to be honest.

I don't like EA either, but the reason why they stopped the development of that Star Wars game was not because they didn't want it to be a linear single player game: it was a very troubled development process that was requiring much more time than needed. Still, closing out Visceral completely was indeed a very drastic act, I can agree on that.

The loot box issue also ruined Battlefront 2, and there's no denying that since Bioware has become an EA company the quality of their games has been steadily going down.

 

Also, if SWTOR was a single player game many of its problems wouldn't even have existed.

Edited January 5, 2018 by _Tarkus_

[Tsillah]

I don't like EA either, but the reason why they stopped the development of that Star Wars game was not because they didn't want it to be a linear single player game: it was a very troubled development process that was requiring much more time than needed.

That's not what they said. They basically said that it wasn't enough that it was just a single player game and needed to be a live service. That's EA speak for cash shops and lootboxes. I mean the game started out as an open world experienced and then turned more linear. You can argue that was not the right direction but EA is just ***** for selling loot boxes and I bet the BF2 situation doesn't sit well with them because it creates problems for everything they were planning to do the next few years.

 

Bottom line is they felt Visceral was no longer needed. With the current failure of success with ME:A and SWTOR getting smaller and smaller, we see that Bioware is completely focused on developing Anthem. There's an occasional rumour about a new DA game but nothing really solid as far as I know. Certainly not before Anthem.

 

But if Anthem doesn't do well, I'm not sure if EA sees them as useful anymore.

[Kurj]

I watched the entire video, and I think his analysis is spot-on. He acknowledges that SWTOR is a good game, but bases his criticism on the disconnect between player expectations and developer hype, as well as technical considerations that inherently limit the game's success. Pushing story is great for the KOTOR fans, but developer-intensive and increasingly difficult to support financially as the game continues to decline. Pushing MMO attributes potentially yields more bang for your development dollar, but the Hero engine has sluggish combat, which is a negative for PVE content and a deal-breaker for open-world PVP. I can't find anything to criticize in that analysis.

 

At the same time, and separate from his points, I perceive a continuing failure by the developers to best use what they do have. PVP is a potential solution for the devs because it requires the least amount of development resources. Universal match-making in regs, combined with universal cross-faction, would vastly improve the PVP experience and might draw more players back, yet we have seen no effort made to do this. Whether that's unwillingness or inability in view of technical considerations, the result is the same.

 

What we're left with is a solid space barbie experience, an increasingly attenuated storyline that seems to never quite satisfy anyone, a slow-as-molasses PVE development cycle, a limited and not-adequately implemented PVP game, and a lingering feeling that this game has never been what it could or should have been.

[Jdast]

I dont usually defend bioware but if you look at EA's financial statements, they clearly say FIFA and SWTOR is a massive ammount of their income, 55% if I remember. Taking into account how many pies EA has its fingers in, 55% of its income on two titles? No chance EA is pulling the plug on that. Quite the opposite.

 

I won't watch the video. It will just be some fan boy dribbling on as if he was chief dev of the world.

 

The fact I just stated above is all you need to know. Money makes the world go round and it makes EA hard.

 

SWTOR isn't dying.

 

End of thread

 

This is going to sound harsher than intended, but accounting is not your calling.

[LordFell]

TLJ is hated by most of the fanbase,

Says who?

To be honest, I've heard some quibbling about this or that plot-hole, and some complaints about Finn's plot line, but the vast majority of reviews I've seen said that they "liked" or "really liked" The Last Jedi.

 

I dont usually defend bioware but if you look at EA's financial statements, they clearly say FIFA and SWTOR is a massive ammount of their income, 55% if I remember.

Money talks.

 

So... the server merges were a bad sign... because it meant that the game didn't have enough population to warrant the number of servers we had. There's no way to look at that, and say a shrinking population is a sign of good health.

...except that in addition to merged servers, they also sprang for new server hardware. Now, I'm pretty sure this is nothing like me deciding to go out and by a new gaming rig... I can't even imagine what the specs are on a server, probably some 144 Core monstrosity with stacks of 200 Terabyte Drives.My last machine cost me $500... these things probably cost 100 times that, if not more. This is just not the kind of investment you put into a game that you expect to die any time soon.

 

I don't know that we can expect SWTOR to last until 2023 when the license runs out... but, I'd kind of like them to start fresh with a modern engine, and a revamp of the "mistakes of the past." So, it's good news that SWTOR is making them money... it means that, with any luck, SWTOR 2.0 can (and should) be a thing. Sooner the better, to be honest.

[_Tarkus_]

That's not what they said. They basically said that it wasn't enough that it was just a single player game and needed to be a live service. That's EA speak for cash shops and lootboxes. I mean the game started out as an open world experienced and then turned more linear. You can argue that was not the right direction but EA is just ***** for selling loot boxes and I bet the BF2 situation doesn't sit well with them because it creates problems for everything they were planning to do the next few years.

 

Bottom line is they felt Visceral was no longer needed. With the current failure of success with ME:A and SWTOR getting smaller and smaller, we see that Bioware is completely focused on developing Anthem. There's an occasional rumour about a new DA game but nothing really solid as far as I know. Certainly not before Anthem.

 

But if Anthem doesn't do well, I'm not sure if EA sees them as useful anymore.

https://kotaku.com/the-collapse-of-viscerals-ambitious-star-wars-game-1819916152

 

Just read this. It's not all "EA's fault", "EA is the devil" and stuff. It's not always like that, even tho some or most of their decisions are questionable at best.

[HuaRya]

I watched the video. The guy is a SWG'er so the review is skewed but at times partially accurate. He admits to never grouping with anyone and just playing the RPG story content. There are only so many times you can repeat the class stories.

 

As a player since launch the types of people I've seen LEAVE are in chronological order are as follows:

 

1. SWG'ers took off in the first couple of years. A very interesting type of player extremely fun care free on mumble

2. Pro Raiders. NIM content mega try hards. Businesslike on voip. Vanished from the game after Shadow of Revan

3. Conquest Guilds. Biggest time sunk into the game. Burned out competing for the #1 spot.

4. Pro PVP'ers. First wave left after 8v8 ranked was removed and the second wave when RNG gearing started.

5. Casual Raider numbers declined once 16 man ops became impractical. Tanks and healers harder to find with RNG gearing.

 

Who's left that I can tell:

 

1. Role Players

2. Rare mat grinders in GSF and PVP

3. HM progression groups on a very limited basis

4. General Chat trolls on fleet talking about life from an Alex Jones perspective

[_Tarkus_]

I watched the video. The guy is a SWG'er so the review is skewed but at times partially accurate. He admits to never grouping with anyone and just playing the RPG story content. There are only so many times you can repeat the class stories.

Nope, you're wrong, what he said is that AFTER he came back to play the game again after years he started to treat it as a single player game and never grouped up with anyone, and found the class stories and the experience pretty enjoyable then.

Edited January 5, 2018 by _Tarkus_

[jimmorrisson]

47 minutes.

[countdemons]

Says who?

To be honest, I've heard some quibbling about this or that plot-hole, and some complaints about Finn's plot line, but the vast majority of reviews I've seen said that they "liked" or "really liked" The Last Jedi.

 

Money talks.

 

So... the server merges were a bad sign... because it meant that the game didn't have enough population to warrant the number of servers we had. There's no way to look at that, and say a shrinking population is a sign of good health.

...except that in addition to merged servers, they also sprang for new server hardware. Now, I'm pretty sure this is nothing like me deciding to go out and by a new gaming rig... I can't even imagine what the specs are on a server, probably some 144 Core monstrosity with stacks of 200 Terabyte Drives.My last machine cost me $500... these things probably cost 100 times that, if not more. This is just not the kind of investment you put into a game that you expect to die any time soon.

 

I don't know that we can expect SWTOR to last until 2023 when the license runs out... but, I'd kind of like them to start fresh with a modern engine, and a revamp of the "mistakes of the past." So, it's good news that SWTOR is making them money... it means that, with any luck, SWTOR 2.0 can (and should) be a thing. Sooner the better, to be honest.

 

Before they offered 90cc was it? Server transfers servers like ToFN was a good population with top raid teams and top 3 pvpers of each class. Same with TRE. Can't comment on US as only play on Harbinger.

 

The cheap server transfers was to get everyone on one server, milk them for cash, then do it for free.

 

5 servers are cheaper to run than 16 or however many there were.

 

It was a strategic and pre-calculated move on Biowares behalf.

[Tsillah]

The cheap server transfers was to get everyone on one server, milk them for cash, then do it for free.

I wish people would stop writing really dumb things like this. The 90 cc transfers had been around for ages and at 90 cc each it just isn't milking people for cash. That is such a small amount that it's barely noticeable in their profit margin.

 

Compare that to cartel packs and other direct sales and services and you'll see that it really is a ridiculous thing to say that 90cc was in any shape milking the player base. That's total peanuts compared to the rest of the cartel market.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Tsillah

[cagthehack]

 

That said, it is a STAR WARS RPG and until another STAR WARS RPG is released, SWTOR will keep on truckin'. It will have a small yet loyal subscription base and it will consistently get new and returning players to play for a month or two which means that the overall population will remain roughly the same over time.

 

^^^^^^

That is spot on. Who is playing now will probably be playing off and on till the end. And the end will happen with either a new SW IP is released or EA pulls the plug.

[Lunafox]

I watched the video. The guy is a SWG'er so the review is skewed but at times partially accurate. He admits to never grouping with anyone and just playing the RPG story content. There are only so many times you can repeat the class stories.

 

As a player since launch the types of people I've seen LEAVE are in chronological order are as follows:

 

1. SWG'ers took off in the first couple of years. A very interesting type of player extremely fun care free on mumble

2. Pro Raiders. NIM content mega try hards. Businesslike on voip. Vanished from the game after Shadow of Revan

3. Conquest Guilds. Biggest time sunk into the game. Burned out competing for the #1 spot.

4. Pro PVP'ers. First wave left after 8v8 ranked was removed and the second wave when RNG gearing started.

5. Casual Raider numbers declined once 16 man ops became impractical. Tanks and healers harder to find with RNG gearing.

 

Who's left that I can tell:

 

1. Role Players

2. Rare mat grinders in GSF and PVP

3. HM progression groups on a very limited basis

4. General Chat trolls on fleet talking about life from an Alex Jones perspective

 

 

There are also people like me, who are solo players, who live for story and stuff like strongholds. I tend to spend 80% of my game time inside my houses, so yeah, I can see how we'd not make the list of 'what's left.'

[ImmortalLowlife]

There are also people like me, who are solo players, who live for story and stuff like strongholds. I tend to spend 80% of my game time inside my houses, so yeah, I can see how we'd not make the list of 'what's left.'

 

Don't forget about me! The solo alt-o-holic who's spent 6yrs replaying every class story over and over. The one who treats this game like a single player RPG with optional multilayer content.

[LunaticFringer]

Not sure how I felt about watching that myself. He makes some points. And there are many things I think we pick up on if we've been playing mmorpgs for anything over 8+ years.

 

*a mmorpg has to find it's niche

*it can be considered "dead" even though people are still playing it

*It isn't really dead till the servers shut down

*the only thing that usually kills a mmorpg is itself... or trying to kill another game

 

I could add that communities tend to be cyclical and you'll see many of the same people again in the next mmorpg... but time may be catching up to that one depending on if the mmorpg industry can recapture player interest in general and developers take them back over from big business to make them more... passion projects with a sense of community again.

 

I do think he is trying to be a bit forceful with trying to state this is how it is though despite him more or less beginning with he isn't trying to do that.... but bring on the comments anyway... as he put it I think.

 

I do think this year is going to be an important one for the remaining community here in SWTOR though. So, all eyes on EA-Bioware/Austin now.

[Lunafox]

Don't forget about me! The solo alt-o-holic who's spent 6yrs replaying every class story over and over. The one who treats this game like a single player RPG with optional multilayer content.

 

*high fives* Yep that's us. We do exist lol.

[Khelekin]

Obviously its not dead... but depending on how much new content we get in the future it might very well be in a vegetative state.

[SmashWindy]

It was a nice watch. I liked the facts he was able to gather. Still, he really was right about it not being what was marketed at start. The question more is what to do now??

[Tsillah]

Obviously its not dead... but depending on how much new content we get in the future it might very well be in a vegetative state.

Indeed the game is not dead. The server merges we had are definitely not a sign of health though. I'd like the game to go on for years yet, but I hope that there is enough of a basis for it. I suppose with the new server set up they can control cost more easily. It's not going to get much better than what it is now though. So it's more about hanging on than really moving forward with the game.

 

I think I can be understanding to BW's predicament that it's not easy to do that with the limited resources they have but at the same time, I cannot ignore that their predicament is at least as much their own fault as it's been bad luck. That's what stings more than anything. Being part of EA also doesn't help in that but it was BW that put themselves up for sale on the stock market. When you do that, you should know that you will no longer be in control of your own company. So it's a great financial boost initially but it also will erode what your company originally was about. Investors never (or very rarely) care about what you do but what your bottom line is. That's the real problem and some will say that they sold themselves to the devil (EA) and I can't say they're wrong about that.

 

SWTOR will likely go on until the deal with Disney ends. If Disney actually renew that deal with EA, which I think would be bad for Disney's reputation, then who knows. I can only hope that secretly there is a new SW MMO being built somewhere that can blow this one out of the water.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still like SWTOR and also have a lot of good memories, but I also feel that this game hasn't been really going anywhere for years or rather since it was released. There have been some good attempts that didn't quite got to a good place likegalactic starfighter and some real preventable failures like galactic command. But overall it's just been enough to keep the game just alive and not too much more.

 

In spite of the content that has come out, I personally feel like SWTOR died within the first month or two and has been on life support ever since. It's never had a real expansions that brought the game really forward. A lot of people still cared enough though because the game does some things really well and it deserved better than what happened with it. But that group has gotten smaller also.

 

I can only hope that the core fans that are the most loyal will be big enough to carry this game to a worthy end and rather later than sooner. But at the same time if another SW MMO were to come out, I think I'll be there the moment it comes out, because if there is one thing this game misses it's the feeling that it's alive and vibrant and that there's excitement over what the future might bring.

 

Whenever we talk about the future of SWTOR it's tainted with fears and long unresolved frustrations about the game that we hope will be addressed finally.

 

Someone mentioned a new hope...I think that's what I'm describing, there's not much hope of things getting better and that we can get excited over things. Everytime they add something positive, they ruin it with a negative that they didn't tell anyone about. That's what eats away hope. Even when you think, oh this is cool, you instantly start looking for that downside that you just know is coming.

 

I remember being really excited about UCs via disintegration and as part of some PvE rewards. Then they dropped the new augments that you need primarily PvP mats for. Before that we had the legacy perk improvement so that we could get a bigger legacy boost when we had more rank 300s. Then they dropped later that it only worked for each core class and not per character. It's that what takes people's hopes away, because this is what they do all the time.

 

But really being excited about what's coming is never a pure feeling in this game, it's always riddled with concerns about what they're going to do to mess that feeling up, because you know they will. There may even be good reasons for it, but it doesn't change that this has been their pattern. On the one hand I'm glad that the game is still there, on the other it might've been more dignified if it had actually crashed in 2012 and wasn't saved with F2P and the CM.

[Theeko]

Obviously its not dead... but depending on how much new content we get in the future it might very well be in a vegetative state.

 

It's dead.

[DWho]

It's dead.

 

Wishful thinking on your part I suppose. I see lots of new players since the new movie came out and the areas are all busy (even too busy in some areas). Star Forge is even hitting Very Heavy and Full regularly now on the status page

[merovejec]

The game is dying and they are just barely keeping it alive with every new patch. Look at the last updates they are doing everything the ppl want just to keep the game running.

 

Now is the best time to ask for flying Juggs!!

 

But seriously, the video was good, I liked the facts, which where pretty accurate. However the moderator had a biased view due to being a SWG fan.

[Theeko]

The game is dying and they are just barely keeping it alive with every new patch. Look at the last updates they are doing everything the ppl want just to keep the game running.

 

Now is the best time to ask for flying Juggs!!

 

But seriously, the video was good, I liked the facts, which where pretty accurate. However the moderator had a biased view due to being a SWG fan.

 

^, bad sign that EA is listening to the community pushing out as much as they can before the inevitable.