Mercs / commandos still the god class in pvp

[Uebli]

Hi,

 

the "nerf" of the Mercs / commandos was an joke, they are still the best class for pvp. i extra made me an merc and the survivability is totaly OP . I didnt play this class for long time and had only 242 gear , but stand more then 20 sec against 4 or 5 players ..alone !! This survivability needs an melee not an range dd !!

 

I had more and more games with my main (juggernaut) where both groups has more and more range dd's so they build 2 frontlines the healers behind them and shoot each others. As Jugger you have now choice to jump into enemy line and die or throw sometimes your saber The healers dont reach you because they stand in back. its same senseles fighting like in first worldwar in verdun

 

And wats the reason for that...that the range dd's are totaly OP in their defense since over 2 years. Of course no one will play melee.

 

The best defense has merc

the range attack has merc

merc can heal him self with scans when he run from on point to another or has a few sec time beetwen attacks

merc has heavy armor

 

sniper has geat movement to dodge enemys attacks and shield wich heals him

 

....and what has jugg (wich stands in enemy grp) one defense buff wich heals him , merc has 3 !

 

if there nothing change we will see only mercs snipers heals and saboteurs.

 

wich such an disbalance over a long time you can kill a game !

 

with this game play you dont need the expensive star wars license

Edited December 20, 2017 by Uebli

[Floplag]

Show us on the doll where the bad Merc touched you.... Seriously though, i for one and getting really tired of this dialog. Its so full of half truth and exaggerations its mind boggling.

 

Mercs DCDs are only at their strongest when you pew pew into them. I would have thought by now that would be obvious and people would have adjusted to how the mechanics work, but they haven't.

 

Most people still want to stand thier and face tank us and save the cooldowns they should be using to counter us for when they want to use them rather than when they should use them. If you sit there and unload into us healing us up to full 2-3 times, that is 100% a you problem, not a Merc problem.

 

The more i look around the landscape today the less i feel sorry for being a Merc main. I wasn't here for the real obscenities of the last year having only returned a couple moths ago, but as things are today we are not even the most broken, not even close, we are about third at best.

[Purgamentorum]

Firstly can I suggest an education maybe then you will understand the game dynamics. Secondly Maras are melee and considered top dogs by many, then concealment operatives that are again melee. Your dilemma seems to be you want to jump to the back of the opposition and drag the healers into the front line. They will easily be picked off there and won't be able to heal you anyway. You have obviously studied pre mechanisation military tactics, so you will know that hospitals go at the back followed by artillery/ranged then melee. Front line troops die and are expendable. It's up to the front line to know where the hospital is and keep open a line of supply. If your having such a hard time what tactics are the enemy using to beat you so badly?

 

Can I suggest you improve your game by being aware of when the enemy are trying to isolate you and not falling for the trap; make sure the healers aren't being pressured and are not forced to deal with their own problems thus enabling them to do their job not pick up your dps; learn the visual clues to which defences are being used by which character and how to counter them; learn a juggs strong points (taunt when in groups, debuff skills, push single targets back into your group and jump to them etc) and use them to play as a team rather than being Rambo; learn a juggs limitations.

 

There are many pages written on different play styles and classes so I won't elaborate more. The more you learn, the better you'll play, the more you'll enjoy playing. The trick is to learn first and not blame the other players, some of them are much better than you.

[Foambreaker]

Show us on the doll where the bad Merc touched you.... Seriously though, i for one and getting really tired of this dialog. Its so full of half truth and exaggerations its mind boggling.

 

Mercs DCDs are only at their strongest when you pew pew into them. I would have thought by now that would be obvious and people would have adjusted to how the mechanics work, but they haven't.

 

Most people still want to stand thier and face tank us and save the cooldowns they should be using to counter us for when they want to use them rather than when they should use them. If you sit there and unload into us healing us up to full 2-3 times, that is 100% a you problem, not a Merc problem.

 

The more i look around the landscape today the less i feel sorry for being a Merc main. I wasn't here for the real obscenities of the last year having only returned a couple moths ago, but as things are today we are not even the most broken, not even close, we are about third at best.

 

tl;dr:

 

If you beat the bubble it heals the merc.

 

Therefore:

 

If you complain about the bubble healing the merc, clearly you are a bubble beater

[Floplag]

thats tl:dr? 4 sentences properly spaced and everything?

[Foambreaker]

thats tl:dr? 4 sentences properly spaced and everything?

 

It covered the point did it not

[Floplag]

It covered the point did it not

 

Mostly yeah, but doesnt that mean you did actually read it?

 

Seriously though i get how it could seem more OP than it is, but every Merc DCD is a simple mechanic that previously existed in the game, people should know how to deal with these by now.

 

To me its a clear case of wanting to have the cake and eat it to. They want to hold their cool downs for use on their terms and they except everyone to fight how they want.

 

In the immortal worlds of Homey the clown, "Homey dont play that". (google it kids if you dont get the reference)

[teclado]

NOTE: As a Merc main, I know you know all this. I'm just typing it all out for the sake of working through this in my head and being clear. Also, I'm assuming Arsenal spec for pvp, because who really plays IO outside of pve?

 

Mercs DCDs are only at their strongest when you pew pew into them. I would have thought by now that would be obvious and people would have adjusted to how the mechanics work, but they haven't.

That's true for Energy Shield with Trauma Regulators and Responsive Safeguards. Energy Shield lasts for 12 seconds and RS lasts for 6 seconds. The problem is that the 12 seconds for ES is a very long time to simply not attack the Merc...meanwhile you are dying. I know that RS only reflects + heals on "direct single target damage." So AOE when you see RS, or CC the merc and wait it out. As a Mara, I don't always have the Rage necessary to use AOE (Smash or Sweeping Slash) during RS, meaning that I have to swap targets, mezz, or just Force Camo and wait it out.

 

If we are having a discussion about Arsenal vs Fury, I don't see how a Fury Mara would have a chance against a Merc with Electro Net up. Yeah, Fury has some CC immunity and Obfuscate, but those require some close proximity (4-10m). Net the Mara to keep him at range and he's gonna die.

 

I would argue that the combination of Trauma Regulators and RS would be akin to a Sorc being able to do damage with Force Barrier up, minus the CC immunity during the "I'm invincible" part (prior to Enduring Bastion or whatever it's called, I forget). You can't attack the Merc without healing and/or reflecting, but they can attack you. CC and LOS is the only option. But 6 sec + 12 sec = 18 sec is a long time and nobody has that much CC. Therefore, AOE during RS - which is very sub-optimal damage output, and that is assuming you are not a spec that requires resources to use AOE. As a Mara, if I get netted, I can't LOS at all or get in range to CC. Therefore my options are to stand there and die, or to try and chase the Merc and die a little faster (due to increased damage from E-net). Pop DCDs to live a little longer, yes, but it's not enough.

 

I played a good amount of Arsenal earlier in 5.0 and I stopped playing it because it was so easy it was boring. I ate Maras for breakfast, not a fair fight at all. I know that Arsenal has received some slight defensive and damage nerfs since then, but let's be honest - they were slight nerfs.

 

I'm a Mara main, and yes Fury is really good right now. But I don't know how anybody can argue that Arsenal is not a cut above. I feel like I understand both classes extremely well, and I just don't see it at all.

Edited December 20, 2017 by teclado

[Floplag]

NOTE: As a Merc main, I know you know all this. I'm just typing it all out for the sake of working through this in my head and being clear. Also, I'm assuming Arsenal spec for pvp, because who really plays IO outside of pve?

 

Rest snipped for space

 

I have mained an arsenal Merc since day 1 of the beta, thru the good and the bad. I took my lumps when it was a free kill as I liked the challenge of it all. I freely admit they overreated with 5.0, and that the nerfs to recent were necessary and appropriate. I am by no means a great player, but im also not the worst.

 

Yes it would be too long to simply not attack, but thats not what anyone has suggested, you have other options. CC, AoE, LoS... the same things i have to do versus Snipers or other ranged, its not unique the merc state. If i see people activate certain things its exactly what I do.. swap, or use something else. Yes, that sometimes sucks to abandon an attack sequence youve setup or use cooldowns at a time when you may not be optimal for you, but thats the nature of PvP isnt it? the necessity to react to the actions of the opponent?

 

Beleive me im not suggesting Mercs arent in a good place, we are, but were not the most out of line arguably , and the very fact that most people dont get the very things you mentioned tells me the problem isnt Mercs per se.

 

If everyone was playing it right we wouldnt even be having this discussion.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Floplag

[Turn-XGundam]

you're a bad mara if you lose to a merc or sniper

i see maras destroy sniper/mercs all day long

 

best melee dcds out there and amazing dps.

 

you want merc nerfs, ok then i want mara nerfs especially the dcds.

[VIZIOO]

Hi,

 

" I didnt play this class for long time and had only 242 gear , but stand more then 20 sec against 4 or 5 players ..alone !! This survivability needs an melee not an range dd !! "

 

Really! so you have found The Fountain Of Not Getting Tunnel, please elaborated? I for once as one of the most reputed players in PvP find it kind of difficult getting of the grip of 4s determinate players, specially went they take turn to simultaneously stun/root you with my resolve bar nowhere to be found, but by all means share your secret? btw: hope you not talking about URWZ because if this is a post about Urank I had totally wasted my time writing you...

 

"I had more and more games with my main (juggernaut) where both groups has more and more range dd's so they build 2 frontlines the healers behind them and shoot each others. As Jugger you have now choice to jump into enemy line and die or throw sometimes your saber The healers dont reach you because they stand in back. its same senseles fighting like in first worldwar in verdun :mad:"

 

You're absolutely right! Gonna start sending my supply unit side by side along with the infantry, after all why would the enemy attack them? They're rendering a humble service to the infantry, such as providing food and water. I'm sure the enemy will leave them alone.

 

"And wats the reason for that...that the range dd's are totaly OP in their defense since over 2 years. Of course no one will play melee."

 

You're absolutely right again! after all battles are won based on "fairness" so the next time I see a melee.. I just gonna put my blasters on the ground and fight Mano a Mano

 

 

"if there nothing change we will see only mercs snipers heals and saboteurs.

 

wich such an disbalance over a long time you can kill a game ! "

 

Yes, disbalance! I for once had started to grow a belly from all the Cup Cakes I eat while PvP..

 

Boluda (main)* Roja alt * Lolo Sorc * Meloroso jugg * Traidora PT * Diabla Sin.. My favorite class PT has been unplayable for the past 3 or 4yrs.

Edited December 20, 2017 by VIZIOO

[KendraP]

I think the issue people have with mercs is their dcd and off heals as a dps spec. I wish I had half the survivability of a dps merc on my vigi guardian.

 

That said, mercs are relatively easy to shut down provided you can devote someone to interrupting them. At this stage I find mercs to be the third most annoying dps class behind mara and sniper.

Edited December 20, 2017 by KendraP

[Glower]

Dont move if netted.

Dont attack cuz it will reduce knockback cd.

Dont attack cuz it will reduce reactive shield cd.

Dont attack if they are stacked with healing

Dont attack if they are blue bubbled

Dont attack if they are yellow bubbled

Dont trigger kolto overload... ugh duh, well /raise hands.

 

Just lie down and die.

 

Im not even talking about PT vs Mercs cooldowns - it's just plain stupid to compare them.

[Kazz_Devlin]

Show us on the doll where the bad Merc touched you.... Seriously though, i for one and getting really tired of this dialog. Its so full of half truth and exaggerations its mind boggling.

 

Mercs DCDs are only at their strongest when you pew pew into them. I would have thought by now that would be obvious and people would have adjusted to how the mechanics work, but they haven't.

 

Most people still want to stand thier and face tank us and save the cooldowns they should be using to counter us for when they want to use them rather than when they should use them. If you sit there and unload into us healing us up to full 2-3 times, that is 100% a you problem, not a Merc problem.

 

The more i look around the landscape today the less i feel sorry for being a Merc main. I wasn't here for the real obscenities of the last year having only returned a couple moths ago, but as things are today we are not even the most broken, not even close, we are about third at best.

 

First off you have deal with sever lag so could be a delay. Not all but some visual ques that abilities have are hard to see when a camera is zoomed out , Next you have visual ques from other abilities that actually drown out the visuals such as the healing globe , hell even mercs own abilities like the 20% dmg reduce shield (i.e the blue one) drowns out the yellow so don't give me that "don't shoot the merc" bs! It's high time you stopped defending poor execution and lack of vision by the dev's.

Merc is a DPS spec so you should be a glass fricken cannon YOU DON"T COME CLOSE! The fact that these idiot dev's lack the foresight to fore see that granting a DPS spec heals when hit is essentially a heal to full! There's just to many factors especially when in fight with multiple opponents!

It's simple DPS are glass cannons & hybrids are mediocre dmg and mediocre tanks because you have to neuter their DPS because they have to much survival a hybrid shouldn't be out DPSing pure DPS spec! To do otherwise make playing a pure DPS class moot, why play them when I can put out DPS equivalent to them plus survive their onslaught! WHICH IS CLEARLY AND PAINFULLY EVIDENT BY EVERY MATCH WHICH HAS AT LEAST 3 mercs and three snipers!

Giving heals on dmg to dps spec's was a mistake from the get go unless you give to all none should have it!

Edited December 21, 2017 by Kazz_Devlin

[DenariusJay]

Just accept it.

 

This game has no class balance, since 5.0 it's all farts and mirrors, BW has no idea what to do. Either join in on playing the OP classes or suck it up and play crap classes and make what you can out of it.

 

My point is; BW doesn't care - so you shouldn't either!

[Aeneas_Falco]

I think it's fair to say that mercs have at least one too many self-heals. Perhaps Trauma Regulators should be taken away and instead Energy Shield mitigates damage but doesn't repair it. Reflect can stay as it only lasts six seconds.

 

That said some of the posters aren't wrong that a lot of the problems people have with mercs boil down to L2P. Players will mindlessly beat on energy shield when the merc is at or near full health, guaranteeing that you won't kill him or her before the shield drops and all that damage will be converted to heals, or they wail away at Reflect even while watching the merc heal to full as they do it.

 

Where the players that argue merc seeming OP is down entirely to L2P are wrong is that to counter a merc you need to hard swap or stun not once but twice and if you have more than one merc to worry about (a common occurrence), that hard swap is often from one merc who just popped energy shield to another that pops reflect requiring yet another stun or target swap. Or to a sniper (the alternative FOTM) who has similarly long TTK. While all this is going on you're also taking damage or get hit with CC, often guaranteeing that by the time you're ready to finally drop that first merc he or she has that first self-healing DCD coming back off of cooldown and if you're pressuring a node, reinforcements will arrive first.

 

Merc damage is fine. They should hit hard. Merc damage was fine pre-nerf, for that matter. They made the wrong adjustment.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Aeneas_Falco

[-Bob-]

Just accept it.

 

This game has no class balance, since 5.0 it's all farts and mirrors, BW has no idea what to do. Either join in on playing the OP classes or suck it up and play crap classes and make what you can out of it.

 

My point is; BW doesn't care - so you shouldn't either!

This ^^^^

[Kazz_Devlin]

I think it's fair to say that mercs have at least one too many self-heals. Perhaps Trauma Regulators should be taken away and instead Energy Shield mitigates damage but doesn't repair it. Reflect can stay as it only lasts six seconds.

 

That said some of the posters aren't wrong that a lot of the problems people have with mercs boil down to L2P. Players will mindlessly beat on energy shield when the merc is at or near full health, guaranteeing that you won't kill him or her before the shield drops and all that damage will be converted to heals, or they wail away at Reflect even while watching the merc heal to full as they do it.

 

Where the players that argue merc seeming OP is down entirely to L2P are wrong is that to counter a merc you need to hard swap or stun not once but twice and if you have more than one merc to worry about (a common occurrence), that hard swap is often from one merc who just popped energy shield to another that pops reflect requiring yet another stun or target swap. Or to a sniper (the alternative FOTM) who has similarly long TTK. While all this is going on you're also taking damage or get hit with CC, often guaranteeing that by the time you're ready to finally drop that first merc he or she has that first self-healing DCD coming back off of cooldown and if you're pressuring a node, reinforcements will arrive first.

 

Merc damage is fine. They should hit hard. Merc damage was fine pre-nerf, for that matter. They made the wrong adjustment.

 

When bioware gets around to addressing better visual clues so that people can differentiate one from the other so one can actually tell when an ability has been tripped MAYBE that will happen! But this is Bioware my expectations are not really high that they can achieve this! L2P is an excuse that benefits lazy dev's L2p might be relevant in a one on one match but that excuse falls short when its a free for all to much crap is going on. Solution is simple remove all heals on dmg!

Edited December 21, 2017 by Kazz_Devlin

[Purgamentorum]

What visual clues do you get about some of the mara and jugg defences? juggs started the whole reflect shield bit, but it's only a problem now so many other classes have it? But most of all and really I do not understand why this isn't discussed more

 

What about operatives? 5% heal every 25 seconds, evasion with cool down reduced when attacked, stealth, spamable slows, the revitalizer utility give that one to Pt's, and last but by no means least ..... The biggest reflect shield of all that turns 150% of damage to sender on what sheild? EVASION. So you can't be hit it's really low in CD and you reduce CD when attacked. This is a melee class that can stealth into ranged and back out, and heal itself, and so much more. If you are worried about anything mercs can do reroll operative, they have net (evaded) and stealth scan (game of chance) to counter.

 

oh and nerf OPeratives.

[Aaroneus]

if you want to render a mercenaries heal-on-hit useless, i suggest using aoe. the heal proc's on direct attacks, not aoe. everytime i see 3 people focusing a mercenary continue to hammer away on him once he pop TR, i die inside. this mechanic isn't new. please educate yourself and stop playing like an ape.

[Floplag]

First off you have deal with sever lag so could be a delay. Not all but some visual ques that abilities have are hard to see when a camera is zoomed out , Next you have visual ques from other abilities that actually drown out the visuals such as the healing globe , hell even mercs own abilities like the 20% dmg reduce shield (i.e the blue one) drowns out the yellow so don't give me that "don't shoot the merc" bs! It's high time you stopped defending poor execution and lack of vision by the dev's.

Merc is a DPS spec so you should be a glass fricken cannon YOU DON"T COME CLOSE! The fact that these idiot dev's lack the foresight to fore see that granting a DPS spec heals when hit is essentially a heal to full! There's just to many factors especially when in fight with multiple opponents!

It's simple DPS are glass cannons & hybrids are mediocre dmg and mediocre tanks because you have to neuter their DPS because they have to much survival a hybrid shouldn't be out DPSing pure DPS spec! To do otherwise make playing a pure DPS class moot, why play them when I can put out DPS equivalent to them plus survive their onslaught! WHICH IS CLEARLY AND PAINFULLY EVIDENT BY EVERY MATCH WHICH HAS AT LEAST 3 mercs and three snipers!

Giving heals on dmg to dps spec's was a mistake from the get go unless you give to all none should have it!

 

8 or more seconds of lag? Sorry, no. These are mechanics that have pre-existed in the game in many forms, how do you handle those?

 

The Glass canon argument is silly, it really is. You just invalidated literally every class in the game not a healer or tank. And with how high those are tuned right now if your analogy was accurate we would all be globaled in every fight. You want pure dps survivability tuned down, you either have to increase the damage output significantly or you have to cut way back on the amount of dps tanks do, how guard works, and healing output. In short revamp the entire game. No MMO has the glass canon anymore, not if it supports PvP as they would be utterly invalid.

 

The bottom line you are another player who wants every fight on your terms, instead of adapting to the variety of different options that present themselves in PvP. Its a you problem, not a Merc problem. Each class presents unique challenges, some are always more difficult than others and who that is varies from release to release. You must adapt to that, the game doesn't adapt to you.

[Glower]

ITT: Mercs are not FOTY(year) and not overpowered killing machines, L2P.

[Stellarcrusade]

Show us on the doll where the bad Merc touched you.... Seriously though, i for one and getting really tired of this dialog. Its so full of half truth and exaggerations its mind boggling.

 

Mercs DCDs are only at their strongest when you pew pew into them. I would have thought by now that would be obvious and people would have adjusted to how the mechanics work, but they haven't.

 

Most people still want to stand thier and face tank us and save the cooldowns they should be using to counter us for when they want to use them rather than when they should use them. If you sit there and unload into us healing us up to full 2-3 times, that is 100% a you problem, not a Merc problem.

 

The more i look around the landscape today the less i feel sorry for being a Merc main. I wasn't here for the real obscenities of the last year having only returned a couple moths ago, but as things are today we are not even the most broken, not even close, we are about third at best.

 

I had a merc as my main in 4.0, when it really was a challenge to play it. Now its a joke. So are you ok if they just switch mercs back to what they were in 4.0? They could hit somewhat hard but you look their way they die instantly? Otherwise admit range doesn't need 4 lives.

[NuSeC]

Show us on the doll where the bad Merc touched you.... Seriously though, i for one and getting really tired of this dialog. Its so full of half truth and exaggerations its mind boggling.

 

Mercs DCDs are only at their strongest when you pew pew into them. I would have thought by now that would be obvious and people would have adjusted to how the mechanics work, but they haven't.

 

Most people still want to stand thier and face tank us and save the cooldowns they should be using to counter us for when they want to use them rather than when they should use them. If you sit there and unload into us healing us up to full 2-3 times, that is 100% a you problem, not a Merc problem.

 

The more i look around the landscape today the less i feel sorry for being a Merc main. I wasn't here for the real obscenities of the last year having only returned a couple moths ago, but as things are today we are not even the most broken, not even close, we are about third at best.

 

 

The biggest single issue is that a ranged class should not have those cool-downs and should not be face tanking 3+ people. Also, No other class can literally just sit there with cool-downs and be able to do damage in return for anywhere near that period of time PLUS heal themselves. I think Sorcs should be able to do damage/heal when they use force barrier if that is the case.

Edited December 21, 2017 by NuSeC

[zhezvya]

No MMO has the glass canon anymore, not if it supports PvP as they would be utterly invalid.

.

 

What about AP PT? It shouldn't be in this game if the latter is true. It is a glass cannon- hits hard, dies fast.

How an AP PT is a thing in the same game where we have 5.0 Arsenal or Engi?