Honest question regarding progression

[Vren]

So here is an honest question to developers and gamers alike.

 

Before you say "But you rushed to level 50!" let me tell you that you will eventually hit level 50 sooner or later.

 

Were you meant to get decked out in gear in less then two weeks?

 

Honestly take a second to answer that.

 

Two weeklies offer 3 champion bags each, two dailies offer one champion bag each and getting 800 WZ com. is not all that hard with a 4 man premade to farm champion bags.

 

That's just the PVP side of it, (dont get me started on HOW broken the ilum daily/weekly is)

 

Pve is just as big of a joke. 2 manning hardmode flashpoints without a TANK (yes im a marauder with a sorc in healing spec) should not be allowed.

 

EV nightmare (the ops or "raid" whatever you wanna call it) is EASIER then hardmode flashpoints. Let that sink in. Raid gear is a joke to get. only thing keeping people from gearing up in literally a DAY is lockouts.

 

Only thing keeping people from gearing up completely in pvp is the randomness of the champion bag.

 

It might be slightly tedius to get every piece of gear, but in no shape or form is it fun.

 

Wz's lose its touch after you get all your gear, seriously.

 

Now you might tell me "hey you play too much! you burned yourself out!" no, I simply enjoyed the game and played and progressed further then most. Well I'm here to tell you what's there when you reach this point.

 

Your feedback (yes CM's you're welcome to comment on this as well) is welcome.

 

/flamesuit activated

 

EDIT: To elaborate on my point a post which I've pulled from page 2 answering someone's question

 

"Progression in a layman's terms is getting gear with better stats.

 

It should feel rewarding when getting gear, aka progressing.

 

When you are saturated with said gear with little to no effort, there is no feel of progression, let alone a reward.

 

I am trying to help fix this. Even the most casual of casuals will find themselves geared up before they know it under the current system with nothing to look forward to.

 

The system of rewarding needs a change, and a drastic one. Yes they might be releasing new content (with the current content broken to bits,) but if people finish it just as fast (I'm talking very casual people here for sake of argument) I doubt they will feel rewarded. "

Edited December 29, 2011 by Vren

[Vitiatix]

So here is an honest question to developers and gamers alike.

 

Before you say "But you rushed to level 50!" let me tell you that you will eventually hit level 50 sooner or later.

 

Were you meant to get decked out in gear in less then two weeks?

 

Honestly take a second to answer that.

 

Two weeklies offer 3 champion bags each, two dailies offer one champion bag each and getting 800 WZ com. is not all that hard with a 4 man premade to farm champion bags.

 

That's just the PVP side of it, (dont get me started on HOW broken the ilum daily/weekly is)

 

Pve is just as big of a joke. 2 manning hardmode flashpoints without a TANK (yes im a marauder with a sorc in healing spec) should not be allowed.

 

EV nightmare (the ops or "raid" whatever you wanna call it) is EASIER then hardmode flashpoints. Let that sink in. Raid gear is a joke to get. only thing keeping people from gearing up in literally a DAY is lockouts.

 

Only thing keeping people from gearing up completely in pvp is the randomness of the champion bag.

 

It might be slightly tedius to get every piece of gear, but in no shape or form is it fun.

 

Wz's lose its touch after you get all your gear, seriously.

 

Now you might tell me "hey you play too much! you burned yourself out!" no, I simply enjoyed the game and played and progressed further then most. Well I'm here to tell you what's there when you reach this point.

 

Your feedback (yes CM's you're welcome to comment on this as well) is welcome.

 

/flamesuit activated

 

I agree with you because I don't have short-term memory loss and recall perfectly what Bioware promised would be in for each type of player. I also have common sense.

[antOWNio]

burned yourself out. i've done it, play other games, come back in 1 week, problem solved.

[Vren]

burned yourself out. i've done it, play other games, come back in 1 week, problem solved.

 

I have BIS (best in slot) gear (save battlemaster, my valor rank is in the 40's and thats just a all-tedius grind)

 

tell me what they will add in one week to keep my interest.

 

My whole point is once you reach level 50, literally with NO effort you can get completely geared and have nothing to look forward to except chatcraft.

[scoliosisman]

Roll an alt bro, DUHHHHHHH.

[Lord_Itharius]

so if there's nothing else to look forward to, uninstall?

 

what the hell is the point of this thread other than to stroke your e-peen and prove to everybody else that you have no life and play way too much of the game?

 

Everyone will be uninstalling if the problems the OP brings up aren't addressed.

 

Get to max level and experience the content. I can guarantee you that you'll be disappointed if you're used to WoW, LOTRO, or Rift endgame. It's clearly an afterthought.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Lord_Itharius

[antOWNio]

Everyone will be uninstalling if the problems the OP brings up aren't addressed.

 

Get to max level and experience the content. I can guarantee you that you'll be disappointed if you're used to WoW, LOTRO, or Rift endgame. It's clearly an afterthought.

 

Well if that's the case, so be it. It's in BioWare's hands. I'm sure they have a plan in mind.

[snooggums]

So here is an honest question to developers and gamers alike.

 

Before you say "But you rushed to level 50!" let me tell you that you will eventually hit level 50 sooner or later.

 

Were you meant to get decked out in gear in less then two weeks?

 

Honestly take a second to answer that.

 

Two weeklies offer 3 champion bags each, two dailies offer one champion bag each and getting 800 WZ com. is not all that hard with a 4 man premade to farm champion bags.

 

That's just the PVP side of it, (dont get me started on HOW broken the ilum daily/weekly is)

 

Pve is just as big of a joke. 2 manning hardmode flashpoints without a TANK (yes im a marauder with a sorc in healing spec) should not be allowed.

 

EV nightmare (the ops or "raid" whatever you wanna call it) is EASIER then hardmode flashpoints. Let that sink in. Raid gear is a joke to get. only thing keeping people from gearing up in literally a DAY is lockouts.

 

Only thing keeping people from gearing up completely in pvp is the randomness of the champion bag.

 

It might be slightly tedius to get every piece of gear, but in no shape or form is it fun.

 

Wz's lose its touch after you get all your gear, seriously.

 

Now you might tell me "hey you play too much! you burned yourself out!" no, I simply enjoyed the game and played and progressed further then most. Well I'm here to tell you what's there when you reach this point.

 

Your feedback (yes CM's you're welcome to comment on this as well) is welcome.

 

/flamesuit activated

 

So, progression = gear whore?

[scoliosisman]

Vren, you also have to realize that you're in the minority, they can't cater to everyone and they are (at least for the time being) going to be catering to the more casual crowd and I'm betting that the end game pvp and pve is not going to be as easy for them to achieve as it may have been for you. They have stated that early in January they will be releasing the rest of that palace Op and some other stuff, I'd have to read it again. I think that less than a month to release basically a full new operation is pretty generous.

[Vren]

So, progression = gear whore?

 

Not exactly sure what you're getting at.

 

Progression in a layman's terms is getting gear with better stats.

 

It should feel rewarding when getting gear, aka progressing.

 

When you are saturated with said gear with little to no effort, there is no feel of progression, let alone a reward.

 

I am trying to help fix this. Even the most casual of casuals will find themselves geared up before they know it under the current system with nothing to look forward to.

 

The system of rewarding needs a change, and a drastic one. Yes they might be releasing new content (with the current content broken to bits,) but if people finish it just as fast (I'm talking very casual people here for sake of argument) I doubt they will feel rewarded.

[Vren]

Vren, you also have to realize that you're in the minority, they can't cater to everyone and they are (at least for the time being) going to be catering to the more casual crowd and I'm betting that the end game pvp and pve is not going to be as easy for them to achieve as it may have been for you. They have stated that early in January they will be releasing the rest of that palace Op and some other stuff, I'd have to read it again. I think that less than a month to release basically a full new operation is pretty generous.

 

read my post under yours

[antOWNio]

Not exactly sure what you're getting at.

 

Progression in a layman's terms is getting gear with better stats.

 

It should feel rewarding when getting gear, aka progressing.

 

When you are saturated with said gear with little to no effort, there is no feel of progression, let alone a reward.

 

I am trying to help fix this. Even the most casual of casuals will find themselves geared up before they know it under the current system with nothing to look forward to.

 

The system of rewarding needs a change, and a drastic one. Yes they might be releasing new content (with the current content broken to bits,) but if people finish it just as fast (I'm talking very casual people here for sake of argument) I doubt they will feel rewarded.

 

For future reference you should maybe start your thread off like this. Then you might get trolled less. Just a thought. *blows the smoke off the flamethrower barrel

[Vren]

For future reference you should maybe start your thread off like this. Then you might get trolled less. Just a thought. *blows the smoke off the flamethrower barrel

 

it was just a question that helped elaborate my point

 

which is why I asked people to comment

[scoliosisman]

Alright, if that's the case, can we revisit this topic once the casuals have hit 50? Let's wait and see eh?

[Pinely]

I'm a little troubled to hear that. Is the Nightmare Raid Gear an improvement over the other gear? And is the Heroic gear better for PvE than the PvP gear?

 

People can mock the OP all they want, the gear grind is a vital part of the endgame in theme park MMOs. If it really is easy to max out gear in a matter of days, this will be a problem after the first month or two. I had assumed there were caps of some kind, not as apparent as WoW's Valor cap, but there to slow down the gearing process.

 

Not the end of the world, but an issue that is going to need to be addressed. I wonder why Bioware didn't copy the PvP gear system from Warhammer Online? It was near perfect and gave you accessible gear, but also something to strive for. And, for that matter, why didn't they use WoW's, LOTRO's, or Rift's endgame PvE gearing system? You don't have to reinvent the wheel.

[SaltAU]

I only got to level 24 and have bailed, the game is a disappointment considering its BioWare, the budget and the time of development. Posts like this from respected players that get to 50 and post details of, lets be honest, what we all knew was going to happen at end game.

 

Good post OP and thank you for the heads up. There is absolutely NO excuse to release an MMO with sub par end game content. No excuse at all.

[Vren]

Alright, if that's the case, can we revisit this topic once the casuals have hit 50? Let's wait and see eh?

 

Well once the story is done it's done. They will be hit with a black and white "do this quest recieve this reward" in the form of a daily and or weekly. I've reached this point, I've experienced it, and I am the harbinger of bad news.

[Bielduwyn]

Well, as others have said, while your concern is valid, it also is a bit unreasonable, most MMOs have very little endgame content at launch, simply because that's what comes last, and most gamers take some time to reach endgame anyhow.

 

Additionally, TOR actively encourages you to play with other characters so that you can experience all eight angles to the story, they've already said that the first added flashpoint and operation will be coming in January (if I'm not mistaken) so I would hope that you by then haven't maxed out 7 other characters.

 

And finally, perhaps you and your friends can run a flashpoint on hard mode without a tank, but perhaps you are simply exceptionally skilled, perhaps most people desperately need a tank and two healers to survive these instances in hard mode.

 

You can test things for balance a hundred times over, gamers will always find things that the developers and the internal testers never anticipated.

 

So give it some time, really, there should be harder, and more importantly, more content later on.

[antOWNio]

In all honesty though, I can't really comment because I haven't reached endgame. And yes, as has already been stated, your in a minority group right now. 90% of the player base hasn't reached where you are - and probably won't for a while yet.

 

That being said, I'm sure that BioWare plans to make updates and changes in the meantime so once people get to where you are at, the reward is much greater. See, you did in fact 'rush' through. Remember moderation is the key to life, it doesn't matter whether it's a video game, drugs, sex, whatever.

 

Eventually you will become bored of anything if you do it too much. End of story, there needs be no more discussion. The game is catered to casual players, especially in the early development stages. I mean seriously it hasn't even been two weeks.

 

I saw your kind complain about the same crap in Rift when it first came out too. Guess what happened? You rushed to the end, complained too early, then realized the developers already had a plan to expand.

[Vren]

Well, as others have said, while your concern is valid, it also is a bit unreasonable, most MMOs have very little endgame content at launch, simply because that's what comes last, and most gamers take some time to reach endgame anyhow.

 

Additionally, TOR actively encourages you to play with other characters so that you can experience all eight angles to the story, they've already said that the first added flashpoint and operation will be coming in January (if I'm not mistaken) so I would hope that you by then haven't maxed out 7 other characters.

 

And finally, perhaps you and your friends can run a flashpoint on hard mode without a tank, but perhaps you are simply exceptionally skilled, perhaps most people desperately need a tank and two healers to survive these instances in hard mode.

 

You can test things for balance a hundred times over, gamers will always find things that the developers and the internal testers never anticipated.

 

So give it some time, really, there should be harder, and more importantly, more content later on.

 

My issue is with how accessible most of the end game gear is. You can literally get it so fast it will leave you nothing to strive for within a short period of time.

 

As far as running hardmode flashpoints two man without a tank, there is simply no excuse. No matter how creative someone gets hardmode should be hard and not two-mannable without a designated tank atleast geared with 50 green/blue/orange gear. I'm not asking them to do a 180 on this, im asking them to re-tune their reward system so it isn't basically spoon-feeding people at light-speed.

[Satpolpp]

3/4 The content of the thousand long pages of thread is probably about this and how swtor will fail in a month

 

Why should you care?

Its their livelihood not yours, your interest in this game is only in the 50 dollars or so and the time u spent thus far. You dont like any part of the game, open a ticket and tell THEM what YOU think, stop making unnecessary threads on the forum

[Vren]

I saw your kind complain about the same crap in Rift when it first came out too. Guess what happened? You rushed to the end, complained too early, then realized the developers already had a plan to expand.

 

I played rift.

 

I reached level cap and did tier 2 dungeons server first.

 

You honestly cannot comapre this game to rift.

 

Rift was A LOT more rewarding then SWTOR and anyone who played both can tell you this.

 

It took a lot of time and dedication and effort to get geared in rift PVE (pvp in rift was a joke I wont go into that)

 

my dilemma is with this game its literally no effort

[Vren]

3/4 The content of the thousand long pages of thread is probably about this and how swtor will fail in a month

 

Why should you care?

Its their livelihood not yours, your interest in this game is only in the 50 dollars or so and the time u spent thus far. You dont like any part of the game, open a ticket and tell THEM what YOU think, stop making unnecessary threads on the forum

 

Lets be real for a second

 

A ticket will be seen by a GM who is handling thousands of requests on a daily weekly monthly basis

 

a forum post will be seen by thousands of players

 

tell me what was the logical decision to make

 

yes there are a lot of posts saying this or that, but I've never seen a particular articulation of my subject in this manner. This post will not hurt anyone, it's to help make this game better, I want it to be better. I'm not trolling, im being sincere. If you are against someone sincerely trying to make the game better then you will be part of the reason for its downfall

[Bielduwyn]

Well, tastes differ then, I myself quite appreciate that you don't need to run an instance twenty times before getting that piece of gear I want, but then, I am a roleplayer so my priorities are very different from yours.

[SaltAU]

3/4 The content of the thousand long pages of thread is probably about this and how swtor will fail in a month

 

Why should you care?

Its their livelihood not yours, your interest in this game is only in the 50 dollars or so and the time u spent thus far. You dont like any part of the game, open a ticket and tell THEM what YOU think, stop making unnecessary threads on the forum

 

I think that you are completely failing to see that their livelyhood is based completely on their subscribers, of which the OP is one. His point matters to BioWare, like it or not.