What, if anything, went wrong with KotFE/ET and what should come in the future?

[DWho]

For me, the problems with KOT/FE/ET

 

1) Taking away companions with no decent plan to return them in a timely fashion, and so that all love interests have an equal amount of screentime/one on one time. That just seems to be getting worse all the time. I'm praying they don't renegotiate that deal further.

 

2)Making it all about people we don't know or care about, rather than our own characters. Vanilla story was about our character and our adventure and our rise in power. I found the focus to be too much on Valkorion's family, and rather than getting so much screen time/trailers with Screechy and The Book Ends and their Mom, I would've preferred having that time and effort given to our companion returns.

 

3)The story should've been two, at the very minimum, one for shooters and one for force users. One size didn't fit anyone really.

 

Going forward, I hope the future expansions (if there are any, assuming Anthem doesn't bleed this game to the truth death)are more like Shadow of Revan, the story was great, and contained a hint of class flavour, enough to keep replayability high. Even Makeb was better than KOTFEET.

 

The impression I got was that the intent was to bring all companions back in chapters like KotFE with a full story to go along with it. For whatever reason, they truncated KotET and abandoned the third expansion which is what left companions where they are. The "focus on group play" basically destroyed any chance companions would be returned in any way that was satisfying and we are now going to get at best a non-interactive flashpoint or perhaps just a short cutscene (Jedi: "Hi, where you been", Theran: "Around", Jedi: "Great, lets get back to the ship").

 

I think the three part story arc (KotFE, KotET, Kot??)was intended to take the game to 2023 (or thereabouts) and end there. With everything shortened up to accommodate a dwindling budget and resources needing to be allocated to other aspects of the game, there was no way they could bring that arc to a conclusion in the way they originally intended. The single story line was also probably a resource related issue and they turned it into KotOR III (or the Jedi Knight's Story)

[Severith]

The real problem with KotFE/ET, was simply that it takes more than a story to keep people subbed to an mmo. Story can carry a bad single player game, but for an mmo there is no reason to stay subbed after experiencing it.

 

That's also in the context of being generous and assuming the story was brilliant. (It wasn't, sadly)

 

Look at World of Warcraft. Huge amounts of lore and stories, and only like 5% of the players bothered to learn it. Why? Because that's not why people play mmos.

 

Story is what an mmo player looks for while they're having fun, not before they're having fun, not before they've gotten interested in the game itself. It's better to have the story in the background, knowing it's there but not really needing it to enjoy the game.

 

The formula for making a good mmo should focus on content, balance, and playability. Then you add story to it.

 

Bioware did the opposite. They spent all their time and money on story and trailers, and tacked an expansion onto it.

 

If this wasn't a Star Wars IP then it would of failed in year two.

 

Story is a foundation of sand which no mmo can rest upon.

[kirorx]

I liked the story but it got old and a lot of the chapters where toss always that just mess with the pacing.

 

They way they handled the old companions was a major let down and very few of them became a part of the story. Our companions should of returned sooner and maybe even all at once, they should of been part of the storyline, these are people that ha e been with you before you were anything special

 

We really need to get back to republic vs empire and focus on at least factions like in makeb and at best class storylines.

[LordArtemis]

All of the original companions should have returned very early on in the storyline IMO. In fact they should have written the story, IMO, as if your original companions were the well spring that forged the beginnings of the alliance.

 

I should have had a much harder go of it overall, and instead had two or three companions fighting with me at all times.

[MayhemofChaonus]

My biggest problem with the KOT's?

 

Lack of individual stories. It turns out that BW was planning on having the KOT trilogy have individual character arcs for each class. Knights were going to build an Alliance to fight the E-Empire (sound familiar?), Inq's were going to try and bind Valky, Warriors were going to go on a vengeful, personal crusade against Valkorian himself, hunting him and trying to kill him, and Consular....dammit I forget. Anyway, point being that the KOT trilogy WOULD have been the revival of class stories and that alone would have made it an automatic 8/10 in my book.

 

Unfortunately, BW just didn't have the resources and manpower to make that happen in a realistic time frame, resulting in them sort of mix-mashing various parts of each individual KOT class story together into the amalgamation we got. I'm not saying it was terrible, it just got off on the wrong foot with KOTFE (IMO) and got slightly better with KOTET. The recent Star Wars movies have taught me that there are far worse heresies in the SW franchise to be upset about than KOT, so I've given it a low-bar passing grade.

 

There are two things I want to see come in the future:

 

1. The ability to replay the vanilla class stories with old characters in higher difficulty modes available designed to be played by overpowered/overgeared players (This thing has been advocated for repeatedly, I've personally posted in three topics about it over the past 2 years or so)

 

2. A return to classic Empire V Republic and Sith V Jedi. No more third parties, no more holding back. I want all out war consuming the galaxy, ideally with individual stories for each separate class. They don't have to be super-complex and varied. They don't have to be anywhere near as long as the vanilla stories or even SoR/Makeb. Just give my characters each their own time in the limelight, their own 15 minutes of being the biggest bada.ss in their field.

 

maybe as a reflection of this gray side of the force one Marr and Satele were rambling about.

 

Gray? I saw it more as golden/divine.

 

Think about it this way:

 

Previously, we thought of the Force as a line. On the left (or right, direction doesn't matter here) you have the Dark Side. On the right, you have the Light Side. However, (according to the writers of KOT anyway...) this view is limited and does not show the whole picture. The truth is that the force is a triangle, with each corner representing one "side" of the Force. The left corner is still the Dark, and the right is still the Light, but the top corner is the Divine. It's not in the middle between Light and Dark, not in the same way the Gray is. It is beyond (literally above) Light and Dark.

 

That's the way I think the writers were trying to get it across, based on the conversations you have with Marr, Satele, Valky, Arcann ect. The Light is the side of heroes. The Dark is the side of monsters. And the Divine is the side of gods.

 

I don't necessarily think that this is good Star Wars mind you, I'm just explaining the message that I think most people missed.

Edited February 23, 2018 by MayhemofChaonus

[Lunafox]

The impression I got was that the intent was to bring all companions back in chapters like KotFE with a full story to go along with it. For whatever reason, they truncated KotET and abandoned the third expansion which is what left companions where they are. The "focus on group play" basically destroyed any chance companions would be returned in any way that was satisfying and we are now going to get at best a non-interactive flashpoint or perhaps just a short cutscene (Jedi: "Hi, where you been", Theran: "Around", Jedi: "Great, lets get back to the ship").

 

I think the three part story arc (KotFE, KotET, Kot??)was intended to take the game to 2023 (or thereabouts) and end there. With everything shortened up to accommodate a dwindling budget and resources needing to be allocated to other aspects of the game, there was no way they could bring that arc to a conclusion in the way they originally intended. The single story line was also probably a resource related issue and they turned it into KotOR III (or the Jedi Knight's Story)

 

That's what I'd originally thought/hoped for but I have a strong suspicion that anti-story whiners ruined that, just like those who preferred a content dump over monthly chapter releases carried on loudly enough that their desires were met. I would've preferred monthly chapters because at least we would've been getting new things each month to do, instead of a dump people do in a week and then years with nothing...I imagine those that wanted the 'dump' wanted to play through it quick, so they could avoid paying/maintaining a sub to get monthly chapters. I still think that was a huge mistake on Bioware's part to listen to 'transient locusts' that wanted to gobble up a dump of content and buzz off to the next game of choice, so they could get away paying one month of sub rather than support the game for a year or more.

 

It would've made more sense to have it as you described and sadly I think the coming bits aren't going to be much richer than the example you provided. They'll likely outsource the remainder of companion returns to some giddy nitwit who goes on Twitter bragging about being 'paid to write fanfic' just like the one they hired to write the last flight of companion returns, which were done horribly, particularly the smuggler love interests. That was just pathetic.

 

I imagine I'll be salty about how the game and companions were handled for quite some time.

[Paulsutherland]

I imagine I'll be salty about how the game and companions were handled for quite some time.

 

I'm still salty over Vaylin

 

When they bring back Kira, I'm really hoping it doesn't play out like Quinn/Dorna, or actually anyone returning companion after the Iokath War started. With the exception of Temple, her flashpoint wasn't that bad, even if the flashpoint was dull.

[Lunafox]

I'm still salty over Vaylin

 

When they bring back Kira, I'm really hoping it doesn't play out like Quinn/Dorna, or actually anyone returning companion after the Iokath War started. With the exception of Temple, her flashpoint wasn't that bad, even if the flashpoint was dull.

 

 

I know you are.

 

Iokath was trash. The way they returned Quinn was awful, catering more to haters than characters who romanced him. Temple is a boring companion, I never enjoyed her and I felt pretty ripped off that I was forced to run an entire flashpoint with her, when that's all I'd really hoped for with Quinn. We barely got to see him at all.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Lunafox

[Paulsutherland]

Iokath was trash. The way they returned Quinn was awful, catering more to haters than characters who romanced him. Temple is a boring companion, I never enjoyed her and I felt pretty ripped off that I was forced to run an entire flashpoint with her, when that's all I'd really hoped for with Quinn. We barely got to see him at all.

 

Yeah, I wish they had done it like the start of the train one, with Temple as the 'extra companion' then you could bring whoever you want.

[LordArtemis]

Iokath is one of the oddities....I loved the Iokath sequence in the expansion, but do not really care for how it is set up for dailies.

[MingusPho]

I think they faltered by taking us out of the traditional empire vs republic conflict. Imho it might have worked better if the empire began invading zakuul and republic players were trying to rally allies for the fight. The deep mythos of Valkorian and the force reimagined in a different part of the galaxy no longer felt like star wars.

 

I agree 100 % about the trash mobs. It got to the point where I would just about vomit when they spawned. Worst of all...where was the loot? A hundred zakuul knights and they're all mysteriously poverty stricken conscripts. And the skytroopers aren't made of a single harvestable material.

 

The third thing for me were the Valkorian cutscenes. His voice droned on and on...the guy would never shut up. I just started logging off every time I had to listen to him. He had way too much dialogue/monologue imo. No discredit to the actor, the character was just over implemented imo.

[MingusPho]

Yeah, I wish they had done it like the start of the train one, with Temple as the 'extra companion' then you could bring whoever you want.

 

They really need to add customizable parties to any new content going forward. As in pick two companions to go with you. I mean fss, we have a billion of them now...

[Obsidian_Stone]

A few things that I didn't like.

 

The single story and the magnitude of it. Personally I like stories where I'm just not that big of a deal. At the end of the class stories, SI and SW specifically, you end up a prominent member of the Sith, I was good with that. But now, we're the leader of our own faction...but with no ability to actually lead.

 

And for my own personal non force users, there is no way they'd want that gig. I RP my Agent as a BH, and they just want to hunt. Very aloof type of character. Yes, I have my head canon in place of course, but it's hard for me to get through with so much importance put on these characters who prefer the shadows and/or aren't even kinda qualified to lead.

 

The monthly release of content was meh for me.If they released monthly content that kept you busier for more than a single play session, then sure, but it was so little and was supposed to keep me satisfied for a month. Even taking my time playing through there was still a whole lot of waiting.

 

Forced companions segments have always bothered me, even in vanilla when you HAD to play with X companion for Y step.

 

The Emperor/Valk. I don't care. As in, I'm so over this guy. Can we have a variety and more interesting bad guys please. I stopped playing my knight when I found out that all that work I put in to stop the Emperor was for naught. And this goes for Arcann and Vaylin to a degree as well, but defeating the same villain over and over is not fun for me. "Ha ha you lay at my feet defeat...oh nope...you just ran off and are escaping...even though I just spent an annoying amount of time chipping away at your health and weakening you...we're not done. Oh you're going to show up as the big bad again...okay, yep, I guess."

 

Just the story with Valk I disliked so much. Doubly so on my SI who has had people inside him before, and learned to control/get rid of them...and now I'm stuck with a character I'm bored with inside me and all my power can do nothing to stop him...so basically I'm not as powerful as I would have believed from everyone telling me I'm super powerful.

 

And why, after I'm the leader of a faction, don't my companions, especially LI just come back to me. At first, you're gone, in carbonite, no one knowing what happened. But now, I'm starring in holos being sent across the galaxy. Surely they might want to come say hi.

 

I didn't actually intend to type this much. Sorry.

 

It's not the worst content I've ever played. But it really could have been taken in a much better direction. Overall I still enjoy the game. But mostly vanilla content.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Obsidian_Stone

[Eanelinea]

I don't think there was really anything wrong with Kotfe or Kotet. What I was annoyed at was they weren't long enough and all mixed into one play through, well the first one wasn't.

 

But I'm here for story, so the more I get, good, bad or mediocre, the happier I am.

 

If I wanted anything but story, I'd take my *** back to WoW.

[cagthehack]

My two big issues with KOTFE/KOTET were trash mobs and focus on force classes. I still haven't ran my agent, tropper or gunslinger though it. The story is designed for Sith and jedi. Anything else just doesn't make scene.

 

Which means, 3 of my favorite chars are stuck. That pisses me off.

Edited February 25, 2018 by cagthehack

[DarthSpuds]

The metric would have been the obvious rise in population when they were released.

 

Well EVERY MMO out there gets a population bump when new content is released. So that in and of itself is NOT measure of success.

 

The true measure of success is what that New Content does to population in the Medium and Long Term; and for that I point your attention to the fact that we now have roughly 25% the number of servers we had prior to KotFE launching.

 

That metric alone indicates KotFE/ET were NOT successful.

 

And I must laugh at your claim that KotFE/ET delivered some "great storytelling" - it was the least Star Warsy Star Wars content ever, so full of holes you could drive a fleet of Death Stars through it, 90% of it made NO SENSE AT ALL as a Non-Force User - and much of it made no sense in terms of the specifics of the prior Force User class stories.

 

All The Best

[LordArtemis]

And I must laugh at your claim that KotFE/ET delivered some "great storytelling" - it was the least Star Warsy Star Wars content ever, so full of holes you could drive a fleet of Death Stars through it, 90% of it made NO SENSE AT ALL as a Non-Force User - and much of it made no sense in terms of the specifics of the prior Force User class stories.

 

All The Best

 

It is an opinion. I am not "claiming" that everyone agrees with my opinion. I am "claiming" that that is MY OPINION.

 

....which, in fact, would be an accurate claim. The first line of the comment says it all. The fact you find that amusing means next to nothing with respect to my opinions on the matter.

 

You are certainly welcome to disagree, but it would be a pretty silly premise if you expect that passionately expressing your distaste for the expansions in some fashion would in any way sway my opinions.

 

After all, I am not a sheep.

Edited February 26, 2018 by LordArtemis

[JainiaDral]

The biggest problem I had was that I felt like every character I've leveled through it wasn't mine anymore. Each had morphed into a complete stranger. My self-and-Vette redeemed SW turned into a military leader who traded snarky Whedon jabs with the universe-destroying emperor in her head. She suddenly knew how to run a huge government and military organization. She'd lost every connection to her previous companions, especially her spouse. Then she spent all of KOTET driving little mouse droids, morphing into Valkorian, and slowly stomping walkers and giant droids through fields of skytroopers. She defeated her nemesis--mostly--with a shield she randomly picked up instead of her lightsaber.

 

Then she ended up an incompetent not-Empress, listening to her two nincompoop advisers. She made stupid decisions she wouldn't have dreamed of because the writers railroaded her into becoming an idiot.

 

It only got worse as I ran a few other characters through, mostly for Theron's romance. All of my previously smart characters turned into morons.

 

I'd love to feel like my characters have an iota of intelligence again. Just once. And I'd like to play them as themselves instead of as a mouse droid or Valkorion or a walker.