Please give us better tools to combat general chat toxicity

[DWho]

This made me crack up in RL. When i hear someone saying ''benefits of slavery'' i view it as if a comic is doing a comedic sketch in front of an audience. Comedy often happens when you push limits.

It's not like someone that is running for office is talking about it with a straight face or it's a random guy in a serious TV program.

 

This just confirms my suspicions, you guys are entirely too serious about life.

 

Really, discussion of the benefits of slavery is acceptable to you. You are one very sad person then. Not to mention the discussion itself was totally offensive in nature and could not be replicated here due to forum rules. Suffice it to say it was racially insensitive which is a violation of the Code of Conduct. How you can see any of this as funny is beyond me.

[Valfuros]

Well, anyone who defends general chat being used for racism, sexism etc is most likely one of the people who do it. TOS aside, it's pathetic not funny. These sad little trolls are usually the same losers that sat in the back of the class trying to be funny instead of learning. I guess fast food places allow that kind of talk

[JediQuaker]

The bottom line is that it's very easy for you to turn off chat - click the little triangle in the upper left. Since it is that easy, I can't see the practicality of expecting BW to try to block chat based upon the sensibilities of snowflakes (or anyone else).

[DWho]

There is really no point in further discussion in this thread about these instances. You cannot post what is actually going on in General chat in the forums because it would get you banned from the forums (which gives the trolls here the ability to say "well I didn't see it and what you are describing isn't that bad") . The people who keep coming here and defending this kind of talk need to take a serious look at themselves and spend some actual time looking at what is said in chat instead of just burying their heads in the sand (Imp fleet and Drommund Kaas are by far the worst). The kind of behavior that goes on in General chat is not the norm and is not acceptable in any public environment (which is what General chat is). A comparison has been made to comedians and books but comedians never go as far as what is said in chat (their careers would be over if they did) and books and magazines containing this kind of talk would at a minimum be rated R (I'm sure Disney wouldn't be happy if a game under their umbrella had to be rated M or R). The only way to combat the trolls is to report, report, report. The reports need to be detailed as a full CS report with screenshots (add the image urls from an image hosting site to the report) so that Bioware does not have to go back through chat logs. Edited November 24, 2017 by DWho

[Seireeni]

You cannot post what is actually going on in General chat in the forums because it would get you banned from the forums (which gives the trolls here the ability to say "well I didn't see it and what you are describing isn't that bad") .

 

Maybe you should stop with calling people, who have not seen this and are not impressed by your "talking about slavery is against ToS", trolls. You realize that you are just throwing ad hominems at people who disagree with you?

[DWho]

Maybe you should stop with calling people, who have not seen this and are not impressed by your "talking about slavery is against ToS", trolls. You realize that you are just throwing ad hominems at people who disagree with you?

 

Then the other side should stop using the term "snowflakes"

[Seireeni]

Then the other side should stop using the term "snowflakes"

 

I have, at no point, called you or anyone else "snowflake". Yet I questioned if stuff like talking about slavery is actually against the ToS, which apparently means I'm a troll.

 

Besides, excusing your actions with "but they started it" is not really mature.

[DWho]

I have, at no point, called you or anyone else "snowflake". Yet I questioned if stuff like talking about slavery is actually against the ToS, which apparently means I'm a troll.

 

Besides, excusing your actions with "but they started it" is not really mature.

 

Yes and I explained how repulsive what was actually being said (as best I could without posting the actual wording which would result in a warning or even ban from the forums) was in a post prior to this one. Do you still think that particular discussion of slavery is acceptable? What I find offensive in all of this is people (in this case I will say not explicitly you) that deny the existence of issues like this and tell people to "get a thicker skin", "turn off chat" or call people snowflakes for wanting the situation in General chat to be improved.

[Sinhammer]

I don't understand the "I haven't seen it" explanation, sorry. Frankly, I don't buy it. I can log on pretty much any hour of the day and see racism, sexism, you name it, blatantly being discussed in chat. I've logged on various times in the morning, the afternoon, at night, and have been on all night multiple times and it is ALWAYS there in some form. No one can say "I haven't seen it" unless they barely play, have chat turned off or are straight up lying because they condone or are part of the problem. I saw a derogatory term for a certain race dropped so many times in the span of an hour last night it was ridiculous. And don't get me started on the chat-clearing, which STILL hasn't been fixed.

 

I DO feel chat has gotten way more toxic since merge (and no, not just because there's more activity). I had heard one of the servers had a seriously toxic community, so I'm assuming we unfortunately inherited that one.

[Seireeni]

Yes and I explained how repulsive what was actually being said (as best I could without posting the actual wording which would result in a warning or even ban from the forums) was in a post prior to this one. Do you still think that particular discussion of slavery is acceptable? What I find offensive in all of this is people (in this case I will say not explicitly you) that deny the existence of issues like this and tell people to "get a thicker skin", "turn off chat" or call people snowflakes for wanting the situation in General chat to be improved.

 

No, I do not think that particular discussion was acceptable. However, there are people in this very thread who seem to be complaining about very different things. I.e. someone mentioned how this "toxicity" is something that has been bleeding from pvp chat to general. It's been a while since I pvped on the US servers, but the "toxocity" when it comes to pvp is very different from anything you're describing. It's anger issues, flaming on people who you feel are bad players and throwing tantrums when your team is not playing as well as you would like. Would you agree that someone losing their temper and namecalling someone else for making mistakes and losing a warzone is something you need better tools to combat? If you answered "no", it's quite possible you agree with these "trolls".

 

EDIT:// And by "trolls" I mean people in the forums who you are calling trolls.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Seireeni

[DWho]

No, I do not think that particular discussion was acceptable. However, there are people in this very thread who seem to be complaining about very different things. I.e. someone mentioned how this "toxicity" is something that has been bleeding from pvp chat to general. It's been a while since I pvped on the US servers, but the "toxocity" when it comes to pvp is very different from anything you're describing. It's anger issues, flaming on people who you feel are bad players and throwing tantrums when your team is not playing as well as you would like. Would you agree that someone losing their temper and namecalling someone else for making mistakes and losing a warzone is something you need better tools to combat? If you answered "no", it's quite possible you agree with these "trolls".

 

EDIT:// And by "trolls" I mean people in the forums who you are calling trolls.

 

The toxicity in PVP is of a different sort but by no means acceptable. I do think that the ignore lists should be taken into account when forming teams for PVP. That way, the worst offenders would quickly find themselves unable to participate in the content (effectively the same thing as a ban). I equate what happens in PVP to bullying (which is not acceptable either) whereas a lot of what goes on in General chat would be classified as hate speech. So yes, I think there need to be better tools overall to combat abusive behavior (bullying, hateful speech, harassment) . All in all, some CS presence in the game would cut down significantly on the issues since they could be dealt with quickly. I know it costs money but at this point, it would be money well spent since there is going to be limited new content anyway.

Edited November 24, 2017 by DWho

[Seireeni]

The toxicity in PVP is of a different sort but by no means acceptable. I do think that the ignore lists should be taken into account when forming teams for PVP. That way, the worst offenders would quickly find themselves unable to participate in the content (effectively the same thing as a ban). I equate what happens in PVP to bullying (which is not acceptable either) whereas a lot of what goes on in General chat would be classified as hate speech. So yes, I think there need to be better tools overall to combat abusive behavior (bullying, hateful speech, harassment) . All in all, some CS presence in the game would cut down significantly on the issues since they could be dealt with quickly. I know it costs money but at this point, it would be money well spent since there is going to be limited new content anyway.

 

Well, then we disagree when it comes to pvp. For the record, I despise the people in pvp who have bursts of anger and throw tantrums. I usually snap at them, (when playing healer) refuse to heal them unless it's absolutely necessary, ignore them if they refuse to stop and MVP anyone else who snaps at them. However, I understand why it would be bad if ignore was taken into account when making pvp matches without any other matchmaking, and I don't feel someone throwing tantrums is banworthy or even suspension worthy behavior. It's something pvp community can mostly fix by showing that this is not the kind of behavior we encourage, standing up for the guy getting flamed and so on.

 

Anyway, no trolling in Satele Shan Imperial fleet during the last 32 minutes. I'm off to do some heroics since this server has some emotes for lower price than Malgus -- maybe the trolls have crawled out of their holes by the time I get back?

Edited November 24, 2017 by Seireeni

[DWho]

Anyway, no trolling in Satele Shan Imperial fleet during the last 32 minutes. I'm off to do some heroics since this server has some emotes for lower price than Malgus -- maybe the trolls have crawled out of their holes by the time I get back?

 

Middle of the day US server time is usually pretty quiet. It's when I play most often to avoid what goes on in general chat (unfortunately those hours are limited by my work schedule). That way I can be helpful without people getting flamed just for asking questions.

[Seireeni]

Middle of the day US server time is usually pretty quiet. It's when I play most often to avoid what goes on in general chat (unfortunately those hours are limited by my work schedule). That way I can be helpful without people getting flamed just for asking questions.

 

I guess I'll check in right before I go to bed, then. Getting up 5AM or something just to see some trolls is just a little too much for me.

[DWho]

I guess I'll check in right before I go to bed, then. Getting up 5AM or something just to see some trolls is just a little too much for me.

 

Understandable. I don't know why the European servers seem to be less toxic but the few visits I have made have indicated they are. I don't speak German or French so I haven't looked at those servers but the English server seems much tamer than the US servers. Too bad my ping to Europe is so high or I'd switch to those servers (not sure why exactly, but it runs over 250 ms with lots of lag spikes compared to the 40ms or so and virtually no lag spikes to the US servers).

[Seireeni]

Understandable. I don't know why the European servers seem to be less toxic but the few visits I have made have indicated they are. I don't speak German or French so I haven't looked at those servers but the English server seems much tamer than the US servers. Too bad my ping to Europe is so high or I'd switch to those servers (not sure why exactly, but it runs over 250 ms with lots of lag spikes compared to the 40ms or so and virtually no lag spikes to the US servers).

 

As I have said, I play on the current English European server Darth Malgus actively, and have not seen anything like this (hence my field trips to Satele Shan). Can't say about the German or French one either, though. Pity about your ping -- I'm running 82 ms on Malgus and 129 ms on Satele Shan. :/

 

From what I've heard, this game in the US is 13+, while it's 16+ in Finland and possibly in many other parts of Europe. Might have something to do with that. Also, certain, eh, US politician might have lately made trolling more socially acceptable, but we're not allowed to talk about that in the forums, so let's not.

[LordFell]

There's plenty of offence to be had on General Chat on fleet most of the time.

And, it's about time SWTOR did something about it.

[Malphicious]

I actually never used ignore before the merge. There's always been trolls and it was pretty easy to just not read it, but for some reason it's gotten harder to not pay attention to it. Since merge I've had to start using it, or just turning off gen chat all together. Both of which are good options during prime hours or when kids are watching your screen. Only downside to that is I feel like I'm eavesdropping on the Rp'ers.

[OldVengeance]

When I logged into play for the first time in a while yesterday, I thought to myself "I wonder if General Chat is actually as toxic as they say" and when I got to the Fleet the first thing that I saw pop up in chat was someone telling people to kill themselves. That was followed by a series of political themed trolling.

 

It's definitely a problem.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I have 1 char on Harbinger - and I have never seen something that awful like that General Chat there - compared to the General Chat of Vanjervalis Chain - but that was roughly a year ago. I don't play often there anymore.

Even the VC chat of 2014 was not that dreadful.

Edited November 25, 2017 by AlrikFassbauer

[Seireeni]

I have found some trolls! I'm guessing they are the mild ones, since there's just 1 pretending to be a certain youtube media commentator and another questioning the sexual orientation of males who wish to play female characters in swtor (which just doesn't make any sense to me, but okay ).

 

I'll check in if I find more!

[Rebamcfan]

I have found some trolls! I'm guessing they are the mild ones, since there's just 1 pretending to be a certain youtube media commentator and another questioning the sexual orientation of males who wish to play female characters in swtor (which just doesn't make any sense to me, but okay ).

 

I'll check in if I find more!

 

Are you talking about the person who "exposes" ERPers? He has been in the Progenitor/now Darth Malgus for over a year, and if I've understood correctly, switching to Ebon Hawk/Star Forge on occasion too.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Rebamcfan

[Seireeni]

Are you talking about the person who "exposes" ERPers? He has been in the Progenitor/now Darth Malgus for over a year, and if I've understood correctly, switching to Ebon Hawk/Star Forge on occasion too.

 

Nah, this was on Satele Shan, and there was no discussion of ERP. Apparently, they were claiming to be a woman, and that all their alts were women "as it should be" and questioned the sexual orientation of men who make female characters. To me, it seemed like a standard trolling tactic, trying to get a negative response from male players with female toons. Didn't really work, though.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I have found some trolls! I'm guessing they are the mild ones, since there's just 1 pretending to be a certain youtube media commentator and another questioning the sexual orientation of males who wish to play female characters in swtor (which just doesn't make any sense to me, but okay ).

 

I'll check in if I find more!

 

Keep in mind it's a holiday weekend in the states, and a lot of the frat boys are probably with family and such. It's been light on Star Forge (I was the only person on a planet last night, which was very unusual, and when I had to stop at Republic Fleet for something, I think there were 40 people there - those are pre-merge numbers).

[DWho]

Back when server mergers were first being discussed, there were people who could not understand why anyone would want to play on a dead server. What is going on in General chat right now is one of the reasons why you would want to be on that "dead" server. Many people knew this was exactly what would happen with a server merge.Toxicity and flat out vulgarity were going to skyrocket. Now people have to choose between leaving a game they enjoyed playing or putting up with a level of vulgarity that gives this game a big black eye. No wonder no one wants to stay in they game when they have burned through the story content. All they have to look forward to is toxic chat and group play. The vast majority of group players do not fall into the toxic category but there are enough to ruin the experience. It only takes a few bad apples to create a hostile atmosphere, especially when the rest of the community chooses to bury its head in the sand and not fight back against the most toxic elements.

 

At this point I guess it is too much to hope that the game can be taken back from these trolls. They are too well embedded (and supported) and what it would take to root them out would be a concerted effort by Bioware and the community to silence them or drive them out of the game entirely if necessary. That would take effort that seems lacking. Now it is the trolls that are driving people away and I guess that is the demise of a game that had a lot of potential when it launched. The community has fallen to a level where it cannot contain its worst elements. Soon, they will be all that is left.