Dear APAC Players

[Tsillah]

No specifics have been given yes, but Charles Boyd and Eric Musco have stated in multiple interviews and streams since the announcement of server merges that they are working on finding a solution to this, but they can't give specifics yet as the measures they had in mind weren't as easy to implement as initially thought. This has been stated in the Bad Feeling Podcast Buvette #2 recently amongst others.

The popular opinion on the forum and why people won't give them two weeks because they deem it impossible for Bioware to do anything about this.

 

For me, since I'm not affected, it's easy to sit out those two weeks. For people who can't play the game they love for weeks the outlook is clearly different.

[Ylliarus]

The popular opinion on the forum and why people won't give them two weeks because they deem it impossible for Bioware to do anything about this.

 

For me, since I'm not affected, it's easy to sit out those two weeks. For people who can't play the game they love for weeks the outlook is clearly different.

 

Naturally, but in the bit you quoted I was referencing to the concerns of the RP community, as I consider the issue and troubles APAC players are facing to be different and more severe.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Ylliarus

[IoNonSoEVero]

No specifics have been given yes, but Charles Boyd and Eric Musco have stated in multiple interviews and streams since the announcement of server merges that they are working on finding a solution to this, but they can't give specifics yet as the measures they had in mind weren't as easy to implement as initially thought. This has been stated in the Bad Feeling Podcast Buvette #2 recently amongst others.

 

Not all of those are exclusive to RPers, though. Ninja-ing and things like the backup at Possessed Hunter have been issues for YEARS, and nothing has been done. These things only stand to worsen with a greater server pop, but nothing's been said. If you lose your name in these mergers, even if it means a lot to you, well, c'est la vie. General toxicity, which is rampant in gen chat, and harassment that is never addressed by customer service? Same.

 

Worries about being rolled into a server with a reputation for toxicity? We're told to suck it up. We're told that despite these things, and despite not having any concrete measures announced, or a timeline for them, the mergers are good for the majority.

 

Meanwhile, the devs have asked the APACS for TWO WEEKS, and it's too much.

 

If solo/RP players are expected to accept adverse impact on gameplay for the greater good in the mergers, so should they. But apparently when something affects them adversely, we're all supposed to jump, even though they couldn't be bothered caring about things that affected the rest of us.

Edited October 29, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

[Ylliarus]

Meanwhile, the devs have asked the APACS for TWO WEEKS, and it's too much.

 

While I really understand the concerns of the APAC players and am supporting them heavily, I have stated multiple times in other threads about this subject that I too think that at least these two weeks everyone should bring up the patience for and wait. But that is something I have also stated to solo/RP players, they aren't ignoring anyone, they are working on solutions but it simply takes time.

[Tsillah]

Naturally, but in the bit you quoted I was referencing to the concerns of the RP community, as I consider the issue and troubles APAC players are facing to be different and more severe.

Sure but they are both victims of the server merges, just in different ways and degrees as you say.

 

But when you make a decision like server merges there will be collateral damage. Name conflicts being a clear one. I would think that Bioware has made a balance sheet of pro et contra and based their decisions on that.

 

The APAC players do seem to get the short end of the stick in this, but they might be a relatively small issue for Bioware compared to the gains they see from doing it this way. I wasn't in the boardroom when they decided this, but cost and viability for the future are strong arguments. The consequences for some players though can be very rough albeit in varying degrees.

[flavmad]

Does it really matter? Server merges are here, and now everyone will just have to "suck it up", because that's what the majority wanted. You can protest and campaign all you want now for the people who are going to suffer, but it won't matter one bit. It's too late, and the decision has already been made to please you in your desire for the merges. Whether people have to give up PvP because the latency difference is too great, or have to give up their peaceful gameplay, it looks like we all have to lose a part of our game to suit this 'majority'.

 

It's a damn shame the game is going to lose so many players because people couldn't see what merges meant, all they wanted was a few seconds shaved off their queue time. Ironic that the queue times for PvP will probably actually go up because so many people won't play it with the lag anymore.

 

Three cheers for the "winners".

 

This! so much this!

 

People got shafted in the last merge, people will get shafted in this one, and, if there is another one, people will get shafted too.

 

It's about saving costs. Profit is what matters, not feelings. When people started to demand the merge, the company saw an oportunity to save costs. This is a business. They're not here to cater to the "gamer", they're here to make money out of you. And if you happen to be from somwhere where the revenue isn't enough, the company deems you as an accepted loss.

[Ylliarus]

Sure but they are both victims of the server merges, just in different ways and degrees as you say.

 

But when you make a decision like server merges there will be collateral damage. Name conflicts being a clear one. I would think that Bioware has made a balance sheet of pro et contra and based their decisions on that.

 

The APAC players do seem to get the short end of the stick in this, but they might be a relatively small issue for Bioware compared to the gains they see from doing it this way. I wasn't in the boardroom when they decided this, but cost and viability for the future are strong arguments. The consequences for some players though can be very rough albeit in varying degrees.

 

True, true, as sad as it is, it likely was indeed how it went and what the reasons were for doing the server merges. Apparently the costs doing it were lower than maintaining the status quo. Regardless, I hope there is something they can do to alleviate the consequences of the server merges for the affected players such as the APAC and RP communities.

[IoNonSoEVero]

While I really understand the concerns of the APAC players and am supporting them heavily, I have stated multiple times in other threads about this subject that I too think that at least these two weeks everyone should bring up the patience for and wait. But that is something I have also stated to solo/RP players, they aren't ignoring anyone, they are working on solutions but it simply takes time.

 

I think BW was wrong in how they handled this. I was supportive of the APAC players until they decided that the solution would be moving the datacenter to a place that would suit them, but adversely affect MANY other players, or for the game to close.

 

BW has at least given a concrete time frame to work on the WC/APAC issue, and we know they are coming up to some major server/back end activity very soon. BW has not done the same in terms of providing a concrete timeline for handling in-game harassment, player toxicity issues, etc. IMHO that is the difference, and why I've had so little patience with this.

[Ylliarus]

Ironic that the queue times for PvP will probably actually go up because so many people won't play it with the lag anymore.

 

Don't get me wrong, I support the APAC players as well as the RP community, but looking at the fact surrounding the decisions made by Bioware the amount of players affected can't be as big as people make it out to be. Because if the amount of players that were to be deemed an "accepted loss" would be numerous then they would never have made this decision. So I am doubting whether the effect after the server merges will be as tangible as you make it out to be.

[Ylliarus]

I think BW was wrong in how they handled this. I was supportive of the APAC players until they decided that the solution would be moving the datacenter to a place that would suit them, but adversely affect MANY other players, or for the game to close.

 

BW has at least given a concrete time frame to work on the WC/APAC issue, and we know they are coming up to some major server/back end activity very soon. BW has not done the same in terms of providing a concrete timeline for handling in-game harassment, player toxicity issues, etc. IMHO that is the difference, and why I've had so little patience with this.

 

I agree, when there is a solution it has to be where the players are affected as little as is possible but that doesn't ruin the game for others. There needs to be a middle-ground regarding this, but, judging from the fact Bioware made this decision and no other, financially it was best to deem the APAC players as an "acceptable loss".

 

As to the harassment and such, those are things that no gaming company or real life group/agency/government has managed to bring an end to. It's unreasonable to expect of Bioware to completely get rid of it when the authorities of states IRL have a big problem with doing such. In my opinion the monitoring should simply be increased as well as moving more swiftly over to punishment, significant punishment. Yet those are not cheap solutions and Bioware will remain viewing this all through the lens that they have to be making profit in order to stay afloat and keep the game from shutting down.

[Eshvara]

I was supportive of the APAC players until they decided that the solution would be moving the datacenter to a place that would suit them, but adversely affect MANY other players, or for the game to close.

 

 

Is that fair though? Only a small few have been saying that.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I agree, when there is a solution it has to be where the players are affected as little as is possible but that doesn't ruin the game for others. There needs to be a middle-ground regarding this, but, judging from the fact Bioware made this decision and no other, financially it was best to deem the APAC players as an "acceptable loss".

 

As to the harassment and such, those are things that no gaming company or real life group/agency/government has managed to bring an end to. It's unreasonable to expect of Bioware to completely get rid of it when the authorities of states IRL have a big problem with doing such. In my opinion the monitoring should simply be increased as well as moving more swiftly over to punishment, significant punishment. Yet those are not cheap solutions and Bioware will remain viewing this all through the lens that they have to be making profit in order to stay afloat and keep the game from shutting down.

 

That's about what it is. And with the APAC population, it's already been said that the latency is still acceptable for some sorts of content. Some players from those regions have also said that they are fine with what they have now. So they will not be losing everyone from those regions who is playing.

 

In terms of preventing conflicts with other players, no, there's never going to be a solution for all of it, but people have offered many solutions to improve some QoL aspects and deal with aggressive and hostile players that would not require any constant monitoring: instancing some heroics like Possessed Hunter; making quest objects stay lit; letting people do Legacy ignores, etc. These are things BW could IMHO do to cut down on unpleasant behavior.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Is that fair though? Only a small few have been saying that.

 

That seems to be the general consensus from the ones on this board. Perhaps I should rephrase to say that.

[Ylliarus]

In terms of preventing conflicts with other players, no, there's never going to be a solution for all of it, but people have offered many solutions to improve some QoL aspects and deal with aggressive and hostile players that would not require any constant monitoring: instancing some heroics like Possessed Hunter; making quest objects stay lit; letting people do Legacy ignores, etc. These are things BW could IMHO do to cut down on unpleasant behavior.

 

Legacy ignores? If possible I'd vouch for account ignores! But the things that you speak of are great solutions indeed and I can only hope that Bioware will listen to that. Because I have done the Possessed Hunter quest dozens of times and not once was I able to do it without issues or solo.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Icykill_]

Ping without VPN: 280

 

With: 240

 

7 hops, negligible packet loss

 

Game plays indentically to what is did before the server move.

 

Doesn't work or none of you are willing to try it?

 

Tried... doesn’t work... it’s not a silver bullet for all the problems... it may help some people... but not the majority

[Icykill_]

One simple question.....

 

Not playing PVP if it is obviously not possible is out of discussion?

 

I know the answer : We pay for the whole game,we have the RIGHT to mimimimimi.....we had this discussion....

 

But the situation is like it is...so PLEASE....stop complaining and whining and play the parts of the game that are still possible until a solution is found....or leave in anger ...but all those threads regarding THE SAME THEME that are spamming the forum are simply annoying....

 

Some of us only play pvp... so yeah... not being able to play it is out of the question

[Icykill_]

 

Meanwhile, the devs have asked the APACS for TWO WEEKS, and it's too much.

 

 

Yeah because in two weeks EAware will learn how to bend space and time and develop technology that bypasses the normal laws of physics... I guess they have a Stargate worm whole machine laying around someone?

[IoNonSoEVero]

Legacy ignores? If possible I'd vouch for account ignores! But the things that you speak of are great solutions indeed and I can only hope that Bioware will listen to that. Because I have done the Possessed Hunter quest dozens of times and not once was I able to do it without issues or solo.

 

Either or, yes! And I have given up on the Possessed Hunter quest. I think there was actually one time I did it solo. As it is right now, it's not worth the drama/trouble.

 

I will say that since the data centers are all EC now, I'm scratching my head as to why they are combining servers as they are. The original case for merging Bergeren Colony with Harbinger was that they were both West Coast, and they wanted to keep the WC and EC servers together. But if everything's on the East Coast now, it baffles me that they didn't even try to make the merger decisions based on server character, ie, putting BC with TEH, etc.

[Icykill_]

Is that fair though? Only a small few have been saying that.

 

Actually no one has been saying they “should” move it... what we’ve said is if they decided to make only one data centre... it made more sense to keep the entire player base intact and put the centre the west coast instead of amputating part of the community...

 

But I don’t want them to do that either because it’s not fair to those people on the east coast either... what we need iis two data centres

[IoNonSoEVero]

Yeah because in two weeks EAware will learn how to bend space and time and develop technology that bypasses the normal laws of physics... I guess they have a Stargate worm whole machine laying around someone?

 

You're assuming there's no way for them to bring back the second data center, or perhaps contract with some West Coast, Australian or Asian location to use one of theirs, if the losses are significant enough. No, they can't magically make the hops go away, but there may be solutions like those which are not being considered.

 

They've asked for two weeks to assess things, collect data, and work on it. That's more than people who are concerned about toxicity are getting. We know they're going to be bringing the game down for a significant period of time on November 8 so there's a window there to make a major adjustment, including reviving a second data center.

 

But instead it seems easier for many people here to stamp their feet and say DO IT NOW NOW NOW or assume they know every single option that might be open to BW/EA.

Edited October 29, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

[Icykill_]

I think BW was wrong in how they handled this. I was supportive of the APAC players until they decided that the solution would be moving the datacenter to a place that would suit them, but adversely affect MANY other players, or for the game to close.

 

BW has at least given a concrete time frame to work on the WC/APAC issue, and we know they are coming up to some major server/back end activity very soon. BW has not done the same in terms of providing a concrete timeline for handling in-game harassment, player toxicity issues, etc. IMHO that is the difference, and why I've had so little patience with this.

 

AT NO TIME HAS BIOWARE ADDRESSED, SPOKEN OF OR POSTED ANYTHING ABOUT THE APAC ISSUE... please find me where they have specifically said anything about the APAC problems...

 

All we have is some post about lag people “may” have... that doesn’t even mention the west coast...

There is nothing concrete in any of their statements... it is just more hot air and broken promises

[Ylliarus]

You're assuming there's no way for them to bring back the second data center, or perhaps contract with some West Coast, Australian or Asian location to use one of theirs, if the losses are significant enough. No, they can't magically make the hops go away, but there may be solutions like those which are not being considered.

 

They've asked for two weeks to assess things, collect data, and work on it. That's more than people who are concerned about toxicity are getting. We know they're going to be bringing the game down for a significant period of time on November 8 so there's a window there to make a major adjustment, including reviving a second data center.

 

But instead it seems easier for many people here to stamp their feet and say DO IT NOW NOW NOW or assume they know every single option that might be open to BW/EA.

 

You're correct, very much correct. Many are not considering other options and keep screaming about the laws of physics, while completely ignoring it if someone says "what about a datacenter in the APAC region?". I have tried to suggest that multiple times and one time I was told in caps "won't work" but the other times it magically seemed to be invisible and say "change the laws of physics".

[IoNonSoEVero]

AT NO TIME HAS BIOWARE ADDRESSED, SPOKEN OF OR POSTED ANYTHING ABOUT THE APAC ISSUE... please find me where they have specifically said anything about the APAC problems...

 

All we have is some post about lag people “may” have... that doesn’t even mention the west coast...

There is nothing concrete in any of their statements... it is just more hot air and broken promises

 

So now they have to single out APAC because that's so special among all the players on formerly West Coast servers? Eric said:

 

http://dulfy.net/2017/10/27/swtor-bioware-west-coast-server-move-east-coast-datacenter/

we expect some of you playing on formerly West Coast servers may see higher ping times. We’ll use the next two weeks to smooth out any kinks and resolve any performance issues encountered.

 

You’ll see the same Servers today that you saw yesterday. They’re just running on new hardware and, some, in different locations. As announced previously the move to the five (5) new Servers will be on Wednesday, November 8, 2017. At that time all Game Servers and the SWTOR website will be down for up to 12 hours. We’ll let you know the actual start time a few days before.

 

Report any specific issues you encounter to Customer Service as we’ve established an escalation process for critical issues. Please be a bit patient with us over the coming weeks as we unite players from a variety of servers and try to make this a smooth and painless process for everyone.

 

He gave a concrete period in which they'll be working things out; he acknowledged the group of players that might be having trouble. No, he's not going to give a rundown of the tech issues involved.

[Icykill_]

So now they have to single out APAC because that's so special among all the players on formerly West Coast servers? Eric said:

 

http://dulfy.net/2017/10/27/swtor-bioware-west-coast-server-move-east-coast-datacenter/

 

 

He gave a concrete period in which they'll be working things out; he acknowledged the group of players that might be having trouble. No, he's not going to give a rundown of the tech issues involved.

 

More lies and propaganda from Bioware... you can keep believing in their lies... but most of us can see through them now.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

You're correct, very much correct. Many are not considering other options and keep screaming about the laws of physics, while completely ignoring it if someone says "what about a datacenter in the APAC region?". I have tried to suggest that multiple times and one time I was told in caps "won't work" but the other times it magically seemed to be invisible and say "change the laws of physics".

 

You do realise they closed the APAC servers when we had more people than what the whole of the American servers currently do...