Siita Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, cosmicchar said: YESSS this must be a gift directly from him. And I really believe he made the wooden practice sabers himself. If you look closely, there's some beautiful carvings on the handle. Much like the armor. Just think about the time he puts into these handmade gifts, the armor and the practice saber, all to support the PC's strength in battle. Then he ingraved it such a profound statement of devotion 😍 THIS, EXACTLY! 👏 Arcann has pledged such unwavering devotion and fealty to our player characters. He doesn't even need to put his name (obviously) or any I love you etc on the plaque. The transcendent love that is shared ascends beyond those three words. Also, notice that it says "With you" on the plaque, not my purpose "Is you". Again, we see the omnipresent theme of walking this journey alongside each other, as equals. This is so much more meaningful than saying anything else, imho. "In my vision, I saw a place by your side... and what I needed to become to be worthy of it." - Arcann, from Old Wounds S+ TIER CONTENT, I'M TELLING YOU 😭 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmicchar Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 "My strength is yours." - KOTET "You will have my full support in this fight, and always." - Echoes of Oblivion "Forward is the only way we can go. What I do here, now, is how I will get there--with you." - Old Wounds letter The list goes on and on with his many statements of devotion that say way more than "I love you". And they all have the clear indication of fighting alongside the player character as a partner, companion. Supporting each other's endeavors. And it's not just his words. His actions too, with making practical gifts to strengthen the person in battle. The amount of devotion Arcann possesses is such a sight to behold..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmicchar Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Here's the carvings on the practice saber. Really nice wood grain and practical craftsmanship! Smooth wood might get too slippery, so the carvings add some friction to the hold. And there's slight grooves on the handle for a better grip. Yet another gift from Arcann with real thought put into it. Kudos to the art team for making this 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siita Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 35 minutes ago, cosmicchar said: Here's the carvings on the practice saber. Really nice wood grain and practical craftsmanship! Smooth wood might get too slippery, so the carvings add some friction to the hold. And there's slight grooves on the handle for a better grip. Yet another gift from Arcann with real thought put into it. Kudos to the art team for making this THANK YOU for posting this in such wonderful high quality. If this is indeed another hand-crafted, thoughtful gift from Arcann, this is, in turn, another homerun from the devs. 10/10 no notes. As you mentioned, the carvings add more grip to the saber, thus enhancing their effectiveness in sparring practice. This clearly can translate to improved performance on the battlefield, possibly even saving the player character's life while in the thick of things. Yet another way that a gift from Arcann serves to: Protect the player character "If I'm ever unable to fight by your side, I can still ensure you're protected" Show how deeply he cares by hand-crafting each and every token of his affection (the symbolism of hands + Arcann = 🤯 = we can talk about this forever, right @witchglove?) Demonstrates how essentially everything Arcann does and says is "MAXIMUM EFFORT" - from the carefully chosen words he speaks, to the time he takes to carefully consider every situation before taking action, to the sheer fact that everything he does is for a reason and shortcuts are never taken. He could have just found some random sticks in the Odessen Wilds to spar with. Nope! To me, this Date Night was absolute perfection. It showed new aspects of Arcann's character while reinforcing and enhancing existing traits that we have come to love about him. Because of his Zakuulan upbringing which emphasized aspects of "warrior/conqueror" culture, coupled with his natural physicality (and presence 🔥), of course this rendezvous was going to be active and engaging for the two characters - a dance between enemies-turned-lovers that now share a transcendent bond and partnership for the ages. I'm absolutely smitten and captivated 😏 with this content. Still on cloud 9. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 My favorite thing about Date Night is that he's PLAYING. Yay! He's getting back to the parts of him that were safe and happy with Thexan. They've come alive again. If Thexan is lurking around he's happy for his baby brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thenightvortex Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 (edited) On 12/19/2021 at 10:06 PM, witchglove said: never really understood how anyone who likes Vaylin and prefers her to Arcann envisions a redemption arc for her that doesn't fundamentally change who she is. I think she would hate that - it's too much like what Valkorion did to her Well, reading various major forum threads and how they evolved over multiple years in the last few years has certainly been fun, it’s always interesting and enlightening to see other people’s perspective. I’m very far from being a fan of Arcann or Senya so I won’t talk about them in a fan thread but I do like Vaylin and I think @witchglove brought a very interesting point of discussion(quoted above) which I’d love to answer to, as old as it is by this point. She’s still here unlike many other posters so she’ll probably see it. I feel like I’m qualified to talk about that, I’ve been obsessed with Vaylin during KOT expansions and got back into that obsession just a few months ago after a long break, I have a lot of thoughts on it which I’d love to share! Sorry if it’s a bit rambly. I feel like I’m qualified to talk about that, I’ve been obsessed with Vaylin during KOT expansions and got back into that obsession just a few months ago after a long break, I have a lot of thoughts on it which I’d love to share! Sorry if it’s a bit rambly. I think equating “change” with “redeem” and “save” isn’t correct in this case. Like Arcann, she has committed many atrocities, and I think that once she enters a clearer state of mind, she’ll come to realize that they were wrong and even regret them, but she will never follow the same path as Arcann did(using the rest of his life to seek atonement and right her wrongs), she will see it as a waste of time and as another restriction on her freedom, which is a big no in her book, and as you said, changing against her will for the sake of others won’t go work with Vaylin either. However, I also disagree that Vaylin we see in KOTFE and especially KOTET is her authentic self. She is a product of coping mechanisms and conditioning that Valkorion put on her. The sadistic glee, for example, ties back to some of the experiments back on Nathema which were specifically designed to burn out her empathy, “the beasts feared young man apart and Vaylin made no move to help”. The traces of her glee are also shown there when Jarak describes her laughter as the “sound of her spirit breaking”. She was turbulent and had violent tendencies even before Nathema, but they were not nearly as bad or destructive as what Nathema made her. So, I interpret this as a mechanism to hide her pain and submerge herself in this monster persona that was imposed upon her. She doesn’t care about becoming selfless or helping others, and if you asked her if she wants to change, she would say no. But it’s not very different to KOTFE Arcann, he wouldn’t admit to his inner desires either. I think what Vaylin needs most is a human connection and someone she can trust and relate to, and I think there is a lot to suggest in the game that she does want that, the problem is that the three people from the alliance who even make an attempt to reach out are Senya who Vaylin despises for giving her away, redeemed Arcann who she deposes for betraying her and choosing Senya over her, and the outlander who is a vessel for her main abuser(and who follows his intrusions because that stupid KOTET expansion forced your char to use the code phrase). She doesn’t want any help or connection with them, but that does not mean she doesn’t want any at all. I could bring three examples. Thexan: Perhaps the most obvious one, Vaylin cared about Thexan. He visited her on Nathema and they had quite a strong sibling bond. She always speaks of him favorably in KOTFE and in KOTET even a fake image of Thexan is enough for her to show her vulnerable side. I think Vaylin would’ve been much open to reason bad Thexan survived. Arcann: This one is a bit more complicated, she wasn’t as close with him as she was with Thexan and their relationship was tense at once. However, even thought he killed Thexan and didn’t visit her on Nathema, Vaylin remained loyal to him and never once challenged him despite her having superior force powers. When Arcann betrays her in KOTFE, Vaylin is incredibly hurt and this pushes her over the edge. Side point, this is also why I think it’s not fair to say that violence is Vaylin’s authentic self, she amps that up after Arcann’s betrayal, showing that it’s a trauma response and if she receives proper healing and care, she will become less violent naturally without anyone changing her forcefully. A side point about Senya: Another reason why she wasn’t the right person to reach out to Vaylin is shown in the way she talks about her about her “About Vaylin’s death” email and “A Mother’s hope” short story. She emphasizes that she hoped that there was a part of the girl she once knew in the “violent creature” before her and says that she hoped for a miracle and that Vaylin would return to her “as the daughter she once knew”. This is pretty delusional and dismissive on Senya’s part in my opinion, as she doesn’t accept who Vaylin becomes and still separates the woman she’s now and the girl she was. Rather than hoping for a miracle, she should seek to reconcile with whoever Vaylin is now, no matter how dark and violent she is. And finally. Scorpio: This is a bit controversial and I think this relationship was a victim to the way KOTET was trimmed down and ended up rushed, but I believe Vaylin and SCORPIO’s relationship, while subtle, gives a lot of insight into the former. First of all, the ending of KOTFE. Vaylin can easily try and torture SCORPIO into giving her control of the Gemini droids back and then just dispose of her, but that’s not what she does. Instead she decides to work together with her and allows Scorpio to teach her mentors. I don’t think Vaylin does it out of pragmatism at that point since she’s not very pragmatic by nature. She kills her own people on a whim for minuscule reasons and I think from her point of view, killing Scorpio and forcing her to give the control over would be easier, not to mention that she was a,ready in Ana emotional and angry state after Arcann’s betrayal, she wouldn’t play a long game like that. However, she seems intrigued by Scorpio speaking of both of them being repressed by lesser beings and that to be more powerful, the Gemini have to be free. Scorpio manipulates Vaylin for her own gains here as she admits later, but I think Vaylin’s reaction is genuine. She years for a new connection after loss of Arcann. In KOTET they split up almost immediately, but the short time they spend together there is some insight. In chapters one and two, Vaylin bickers with Scorpio and gets annoyed at her but always holds herself back. She could squash Scorpio like a bug at any point but she still never does. She even accepts Scorpio’s advice and admits that she was right on a couple of occasions. Chapter 3 is the most revealing one. Vaylin speaks about Scorpio with respect, “you can fix everything”, “Scorpio said you’d come, I owe her a credit” which shows that she didn’t see her as a mere underling. Moreso, if the player chooses the option that tells Vaylin that Scorpio betrayed her(not the vague ‘she’s manipulating you’ but the one where you straight up say that she gave away Vaylin’s location and wants her dead) her reaction is an outburst where she shouts “Liar!”. It hurts her, not as much as with her brother, but still way more than you would expect from someone you see as a temporary tool. This continues when Vaylin brings this pain out to Scorpio herself, “Is this all I am to you? Another organic being that you can’t wait to get rid of? You betrayed me, like all the rest”. This also gives a small insight into Vaylin’s psyche and that she is crumbling because of the few people she felt a connection to betraying her. Senya, Arcann, and now Scorpio. So, in the short time they spent together, Vaylin shows respect for Scorpio, some degree of emotional connection and genuinely listening and taking her advice. Imagine if Scorpio was genuine on her side too and would slowly build on this connection? I think this could change Vaylin for the better. So, coming back to the question of what kind of ‘redemption’ arc I see for Vaylin, I’d say it all begins with a connection to someone. This person should not be a part of her family or otherwise someone who hurt her in the past like Scorpio or the Outlander. This person should be firm and have a moral compass different from Vaylin’s, unafraid to criticize her actions but also don’t make those demeaning and seem like they are somehow invalidating her, rather than providing a counterpoint. They should tread Vaylin as an equal rather than writing her off as deranged or cower in fear before her. Also, ideally, they should be strong enough to survive if she does end up having an outburst. That’s just a few people in total, but I think if those people could build a surface relationship with Vaylin much like Scorpio did and then build up on it, showing some compassion towards her as well as hatred towards her abusers, they can make Vaylin reach a healthier state of mind. At the very least, she’d regress to her KOTFE state where she wasn’t as psychotic and destructive. From there on, if Vaylin sees the value of giving the other person’s values and lifestyle a try, she can find an alternative to violence, which will be easier with a supportive person at her side. I am currently writing a fanfic about Vaylin(I think our obsession is of quite similar levels lol, just with the opposite siblings), I paired her up with a Sith Warrior who is very pragmatic. He dislikes pointless cruelty but has no qualms with using it when the situation calls for it. He also empathizes with Vaylin deeply and wants to help out of genuine kindness. He doesn’t want her to redeem herself or become worse or enforce any change, all he wants is to provide this connection Vaylin longs for and allow her to figure it out on her own while she is slowly able to heal and grow more rational. He treats her as an equal, which means both appreciating her personality when it’s appropriate and criticizing them when it’s not, as well as providing an outlet for her sense of humor and being able to share a laugh. However, he is also unquestionably sympathetic and won’t hesitate to try(he’s not that good at it, Sith Lord and all) and provide her emotional support whenever she needs it. But that’s all wishful fantasies and Fanfiction. Realistically, Vaylin won’t trust the outlander after the command phrase stunt, so when it comes to in game timeline, they seem to pair her(Syl) up with Satele and this is a very good call imo. Satele is strong, wise, compassionate and moral, but also not self-righteous. I think she can give Vaylin guidance, patience, and acceptance and slowly steer her towards another path. Both of them also have mirroring estranged relationships with their parent/child, would be interesting to see them compare their situation and perhaps learning another perspective from each other. All of this is why I believe Vaylin can and will change naturally if given proper incentive. It’s hard, but not impossible. Perhaps she’ll become an anti hero when she comes back as Syl and I think it’s a very fitting niche for her. P.S: Shout out to @Nefla and @Damask_Rose, shame they aren't on forum anymore. I saw a lot of hateful comments towards Vaylin from them both in this thread and elsewhere, but a lot of it can be disproven by citing in-game sources Edited April 6 by Thenightvortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 (edited) First, we saw what Valkorian did to her some things can't be undone. Even when you unbind her from Valkorian that damage is still there. Second calling out two people who disagree with you who aren't here to defend themselves is unfair. Third, wrong thread go here... Compassion, Healing or Love for the Broken Dark Princess: Vaylin Appreciation <3 - General Discussion - SWTOR | Forums Edited April 6 by JakRoanin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thenightvortex Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 48 minutes ago, JakRoanin said: First, we saw what Valkorian did to her some things can't be undone. Even when you unbind her from Valkorian that damage is still there. I mean, yeah, that kind of trauma can't ever be undone completely, I didn't say it was, but it doesn't mean that no healing or change is possible. 49 minutes ago, JakRoanin said: Second calling out two people who disagree with you who aren't here to defend themselves is unfair. You're right, that was quite a low blow and wasn't really thought out of me, I apologize. 53 minutes ago, JakRoanin said: Third, wrong thread go here... Compassion, Healing or Love for the Broken Dark Princess: Vaylin Appreciation <3 - General Discussion - SWTOR | Forums I read significant chunks of both this and that thread and Arcann is regularly discussed there, and Vaylin is discussed here. I am not interrupting any ongoing discussion of this thread and I'm directly responding to a point made/question asked by another person to elaborate on the perspective they mention(as old as the mention). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siita Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Greetings, fellow Zakuulans! ❤️ I just wanted to remind you all (in case you hadn't seen) that the Zakuulan practice saber from Arcann's AMAZING date night is now available on the Cartel Market!!! If you wanted to hear the sound effects and check out some tunings on the practice blade, I put up a short clip here: https://youtu.be/jQQaSX5Mf_Y Also, Zakuul stronghold when? 😏 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 800 CC's is steep Some saving is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmicchar Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 An instant purchase for me! I've been admiring the design of the practice saber for weeks now, so I'm very glad we can now actually equip it. Replaying date night every week has been so much fun! Looking back on my first playthrough, I was very disappointed by how short it was, and I thought Arcann was out of character. Now, I'm loving all the different options and how it shows the different sides to his character. This is the most he's ever smiled! I started making digital fanart featuring Arcann (link to my profile), and all of this has really inspired me: I'm currently working on another one focusing on date night, where Arcann makes by hand two of these Zakuulan practice sabers. This devoted man would definitely want to personally ensure the sabers are good enough for combat practice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Okay it would have been an instant purchase if I had 800 CC's but I don't poor me. Pretty art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmicchar Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Here's my depiction of Arcann crafting his date night decoration gift. I hope I sufficiently showed his intense devotion 🥰 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 OH COOL WELL DONE! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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