Class Changes: Annihilation Marauder / Watchman Sentinel

[Khiriath]

I think you should reconsider this...

 

It's l unfair nerf to a spec that is pretty balanced. It isn't very overpowered nor is it bad or weak.

 

As a dedicated marauder, I fail to see why this nerf is needed.

 

This is how every player has felt as their main class was nerfed to the point that it was no longer viable for HM(Vet) or NiM(MM) content. It started with Mercs, who had decent DPS but whose defensive utilities made them a problem in PvP. Defensives got left alone and their DPS was reduced to the point where they can no longer put out sufficient DPS to clear all NiM content.

 

When Merc players complained, everyone else cheered and said something along the lines of "learn to play."

 

Now it comes to one of the most popular classes, Sent/Mara, and there is an outcry. Well, from those of us who have seen their Seer/Sorc and Mando/Merc nerfed to uselessness, I would like to say welcome to the party of discontent. I hope Bioware follows through on all of these nerfs so that we can all be equally unhappy.

[Threjyan]

Do you people even play your own game? Do you have any idea how ridiculous it is that we can't play the classes we want in Hardmode Ops because you keep nerfing them? Do you realize that these dps checks in hardmode and nightmare ops are nearly un-doable AS IS without the nerfs?

 

Whoever came up with the idea of a "target" number needs to be fired.

 

humm

 

if u cant play any dps spec in a hm ops , then it is a l2p issue - all dps classes in this game can do its hm content, honestly it isnt BW fault players cant push the numbers their classes can do.

 

about nim, i can only think in a couple of fights with tight dps checks that some classes would need a carry - i dare to say 80%/85% of nim bosses can be cleared by all dps classes.

 

and anni+watch i can only think of prolly brontes nim fingers phase where it would need a carry - but prolly if one does that type of content then one would spec to carnage/combat

[Threjyan]

All of this... mind you, I played my Annihilation Marauder for fun and story reasons. I had a more natural grip on Madness as far as if I ever learned to DPS. The DPS checks in this game make many Ops a tale of DPS- when you have to contribute DPS every chance you get in some fights as a healer. I was told because I was getting my Ops achievements in 5.0 that it was 'earned' because of how the Ops have been scaled up. I don't believe gear tiers, nerfs and making old content harder outside the expansion release cycle is right- especially when it's taken almost a year to release two bosses in an incomplete Op.

 

I'm not playing currently for health reasons. My sub runs out towards the end of October and this makes me less interested in coming back next year. I know how precarious Annihilation can be as a melee spec, between my own basic understanding to running HM Ops with them- to finally knowing what it's like to get through a boss fight, see these DPS numbers, heal my little fingers to the bone and then to see the enrage. Now add watching DPS I'm running with one class after another dealing with a nerf because Bioware can't add new content, they have to keep scaling up the difficulty mid cycle via 'class balance'. That's what I can't stand at the moment. It's a lie- they aren't balancing the classes, they're trying to mask the content drought.

 

Marauders were the epitome of balanced as far as DPS went.

 

 

They listened because they were outright about to break a healing spec- not simply make it a pain to play, which I've heard it's the most difficult healing class (it was the one I played, so to me it was second nature) but make it completely useless. And they did so at the last moment- and despite the fact that Keith apparently plays the class. When you only have three healer branches, it's much harder to break one without consequence the way they do DPS spec although they'd be doing me a favour if they outright broke Medicine Operatives because I'd never come back.

 

if your healers dont dps when they have nothing to heal, then they are doing it wrong. are they going to stand there like a retard doing nothing?

 

 

 

i do agree with you in some insights about the content drought thou - the problem is that they introduced nerfs when there was no need - just keep gear at 242 - and instead of using resources in this dps balancing, balance utilities instead, and develop new content.

[Threjyan]

This is how every player has felt as their main class was nerfed to the point that it was no longer viable for HM(Vet) or NiM(MM) content. It started with Mercs, who had decent DPS but whose defensive utilities made them a problem in PvP. Defensives got left alone and their DPS was reduced to the point where they can no longer put out sufficient DPS to clear all NiM content.

 

When Merc players complained, everyone else cheered and said something along the lines of "learn to play."

 

Now it comes to one of the most popular classes, Sent/Mara, and there is an outcry. Well, from those of us who have seen their Seer/Sorc and Mando/Merc nerfed to uselessness, I would like to say welcome to the party of discontent. I hope Bioware follows through on all of these nerfs so that we can all be equally unhappy.

 

 

no class was nerfed to the point of not being viable in hm content - its a l2p issue.

[Khiriath]

no class was nerfed to the point of not being viable in hm content - its a l2p issue.

 

Sorry but that simply isn't true.

 

Take the DPS check on Styrak, and then look at average dummy parse potentials with optimized gear...

Here are the pre-nerf numbers:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=918622

Factor in Kell Dragon spin and mechanic necessitated DPS drop off and there are classes, that even in 248 gear can't pass the DPS check, and a good number that would need a near perfect rotation. Never mind with the original 236 gear recommendation for HM ops.

 

If you take the NiM DPS check on Styrak(9.2k sustained for duration of fight), factor in Kell Dragon spin and other mechanics necessitated DPS drops, and pre-nerf roughly a third of the classes couldn't hit the check even in full 248 even with a perfect rotation(never mind the recommended 242), post nerf it has only gotten worse.

 

If you can prove me wrong mathematically I would love to hear it. However, we both know you can't.

[Threjyan]

Sorry but that simply isn't true.

 

Take the DPS check on Styrak, and then look at average dummy parse potentials with optimized gear...

Here are the pre-nerf numbers:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=918622

Factor in Kell Dragon spin and mechanic necessitated DPS drop off and there are classes, that even in 248 gear can't pass the DPS check, and a good number that would need a near perfect rotation. Never mind with the original 236 gear recommendation for HM ops.

 

If you take the NiM DPS check on Styrak(9.2k sustained for duration of fight), factor in Kell Dragon spin and other mechanics necessitated DPS drops, and pre-nerf roughly a third of the classes couldn't hit the check even in full 248 even with a perfect rotation(never mind the recommended 242), post nerf it has only gotten worse.

 

If you can prove me wrong mathematically I would love to hear it. However, we both know you can't.

 

Challenge accepted. (later i will be at home and get more info on styrak+kell dragon+adds hp and give you brute numbers)

 

But from what i can reply from my smartphone:

 

For nim, according to a radley walters post edited from august this year: "DPS: Very High. This fight is one of the highest dps check in the game, requiring the equivalent of >9000 dps for over 17 minutes. Knockbacks, interrupts, and coordination are required for much of the fight. Proper DCD usage and coordination are required to survive the burn. " - http://yourcompanion.clanwebsite.com/372356/topic/50-nightmare-checks-jpq - However i was refering to HM. I am hoping you read exactly what I wrote- HM - so asking for a 9.2k dps on HM is unreal, when NIM it self asks the same.

 

Next:

 

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/dread-master-styrak/8/VM/dps/all/all/all/live/0/ this is a list of Styrak HM kills, althought it doesnt says what numbers the other players from the group did, there are quite low numbers, and only the top 10 players did the 9.2k dps you refered - so i am wondering to your line of thought - other clases did the required numbers to compensate the low parses?i mean, they got carried? so u have one doing 7.1 and others compesanting it?no, i dont think 9.2k dps for HM styrak is realistic.

 

now, i am not sure, what math numbers you did, and in life i have learnt to not blindly trust my ideas, but i am almost positive no class needs to do 9.2k dps on styrak HM to kill it.

 

so ill repeat and quote myself again:

 

no class was nerfed to the point of not being viable in hm content - its a l2p issue.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Threjyan

[AnonymousMi]

All of this... mind you, I played my Annihilation Marauder for fun and story reasons. I had a more natural grip on Madness as far as if I ever learned to DPS. The DPS checks in this game make many Ops a tale of DPS- when you have to contribute DPS every chance you get in some fights as a healer. I was told because I was getting my Ops achievements in 5.0 that it was 'earned' because of how the Ops have been scaled up. I don't believe gear tiers, nerfs and making old content harder outside the expansion release cycle is right- especially when it's taken almost a year to release two bosses in an incomplete Op.

 

I'm not playing currently for health reasons. My sub runs out towards the end of October and this makes me less interested in coming back next year. I know how precarious Annihilation can be as a melee spec, between my own basic understanding to running HM Ops with them- to finally knowing what it's like to get through a boss fight, see these DPS numbers, heal my little fingers to the bone and then to see the enrage. Now add watching DPS I'm running with one class after another dealing with a nerf because Bioware can't add new content, they have to keep scaling up the difficulty mid cycle via 'class balance'. That's what I can't stand at the moment. It's a lie- they aren't balancing the classes, they're trying to mask the content drought.

 

Marauders were the epitome of balanced as far as DPS went.

 

 

They listened because they were outright about to break a healing spec- not simply make it a pain to play, which I've heard it's the most difficult healing class (it was the one I played, so to me it was second nature) but make it completely useless. And they did so at the last moment- and despite the fact that Keith apparently plays the class. When you only have three healer branches, it's much harder to break one without consequence the way they do DPS spec although they'd be doing me a favour if they outright broke Medicine Operatives because I'd never come back.

 

For starters, I want to apologise for my rant message. Knowing the toxic nature of a lot of people who might see these posts, I won't try and sit to argue why Annihilation may deserve or may not deserve a nerf. I am simply asking for them to reconsider these changes, as the community doesn't like the changes at all. As far as Mercenary goes, which some other dude here posted for. Yes we cheered about the nerfs, but that was because we knew one thing had to get nerfed ; either DPS or DCDs. Apparently Bioware had said utilities and whatnot are going to get looked after DPS gets handled ( get scared ) . And you also have to consider that Mercenaries were ranged as well. Anyhow that is my opinion on this, and unfortunately it would be pointless to argue, because Bioware releases these changes under a false pretense of that it will be a mutually accepted set of changes. Which it never was with the class changes, unless it is going to break it completely ( as you insightfully pointed out with Medicines Operative ). These nerfs won't break Annihilation ( I think ) but they sure as hell are a bit too much. Peace, gentlemen.

[Eloi_BG]

no class was nerfed to the point of not being viable in hm content - its a l2p issue.

 

While I completely agree with this point (every class can do every HM check, and only some specific NiM fights might make some classes - sorcs for example - require a carry), the points about nerfs making HM un-doable for some people still stands. Let's say a group of people aren't NiM capable players, and progress through the HM ops right now. They struggle in some DPS checks, but finally beat it. Then the week after they can't go back and do this boss cause overall they lost a few hundred DPS. It sucks for them. You can't do so many nerfs (counting nerfs since 5.3) without breaking the progress groups are doing, whether it be in SM, HM or NiM ops.

 

Not every player has the same skill level. Not every player has the same time to put in the game. Not every player can get full 248 or close. Not every player can practice their rotation a few times a week. In an expansion, a boss should get easier with time, not harder. You can discount it as a "l2p" issue, but it is more than that.

[Khiriath]

Challenge accepted. (later i will be at home and get more info on styrak+kell dragon+adds hp and give you brute numbers)

 

But from what i can reply from my smartphone:

 

For nim, according to a radley walters post edited from august this year: "DPS: Very High. This fight is one of the highest dps check in the game, requiring the equivalent of >9000 dps for over 17 minutes. Knockbacks, interrupts, and coordination are required for much of the fight. Proper DCD usage and coordination are required to survive the burn. " - http://yourcompanion.clanwebsite.com/372356/topic/50-nightmare-checks-jpq - However i was refering to HM. I am hoping you read exactly what I wrote- HM - so asking for a 9.2k dps on HM is unreal, when NIM it self asks the same.

 

Next:

 

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/dread-master-styrak/8/VM/dps/all/all/all/live/0/ this is a list of Styrak HM kills, althought it doesnt says what numbers the other players from the group did, there are quite low numbers, and only the top 10 players did the 9.2k dps you refered - so i am wondering to your line of thought - other clases did the required numbers to compensate the low parses?i mean, they got carried? so u have one doing 7.1 and others compesanting it?no, i dont think 9.2k dps for HM styrak is realistic.

 

now, i am not sure, what math numbers you did, and in life i have learnt to not blindly trust my ideas, but i am almost positive no class needs to do 9.2k dps on styrak HM to kill it.

 

so ill repeat and quote myself again:

 

Please read what I wrote carefully. I didn't claim 9k for HM(Vet) I claimed that for NiM(MM). In Hardmode, you can cheat the mechanics a bit, and many do, by having a tank Respec to DPS, and taking in 5 DPS, instead of the normal ops group of 2T 4D and 2H. Sure with 5 DPS no class should have a problem especially in full 248 gear.

 

How many classes, pre-nerf even could clear the content in recommended gear?

When 5.0 Dropped, there were only the three tiers, 230, 236 and 242...

 

Simply put if every class cannot put out sufficient numbers to clear all content in recomended gear, there is a problem. If classes have to be over geared, that isn't learn to play, that is a design problem.

 

If all classes cannot clear all content(they can't), that isn't learn to play, that is a design problem.

 

Finally Parseley is a bad place to pull your numbers from. If one member of raid team is putting out 13k DPS and another 7k DPS, they average out to 10k each... Also you don't know if they subbed a DPS for a Tank. Again, if you have to sub a DPS for a Tank, it isn't learn to play it is a design problem.

[ivanhedgehog]

Keep it up Keith. Bring overperforming specs in line.

 

overperforming compared to what? they arent balancing them against each other.

[Threjyan]

Please read what I wrote carefully. I didn't claim 9k for HM(Vet) I claimed that for NiM(MM).

 

no, but you did claim that:

 

This is how every player has felt as their main class was nerfed to the point that it was no longer viable for HM(Vet) or NiM(MM) content.

 

The 9.2 dps check oberservation came later - and its hard to discuss it if u are mixing the 2 dificulty modes.

 

sIn any case,i did Styrak HM in the 1st week 5.0 came out with 224 gear and only one healer - more talented players could prolly do it with normal composition

 

 

im not exactly sure but i think DoB did all nims in 5.0 with 230 and a few 240 pieces - prolly not with all classes , but even so, the problem is not that much in BW´s end, but in players knowing so little about the true potential in their classes. if much BW has 2 or 3 classes that cant do all content in this game - and im talking about the apex bosses.

 

the biggest problem here is that BW nerfed their game so hard that when a minor dps check comes forward players complain. (original dread guards nim - that was prolly a true dps check)

 

we can also say that only a few, very little , classes in the game cant clear the tighest DPS checks, but for sure not a HM, or definitly not an Anni marauder - marauder will still be able to pull all the necessairy numbers to clear all PvE content despict this nerf.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Threjyan

[Khiriath]

no, but you did claim that:

 

 

 

The 9.2 dps check oberservation came later - and its hard to discuss it if u are mixing the 2 dificulty modes.

 

 

 

In any case,i did Styrak HM in the 1st week 5.0 came out with 224 gear and only one healer - more talented players could prolly do it with normal composition

Video or it didn't happen.

 

Prove it mathematically or move on.

 

 

im not exactly sure but i think DoB did all nims in 5.0 with 230 and a few 240 pieces - prolly not with all classes , but even so, the problem is not that much in BW´s end, but in players knowing so little about the true potential in their classes. if much BW has 2 or 3 classes that cant do all content in this game - and im talking about the apex bosses.

 

the biggest problem here is that BW nerfed their game so hard that when a minor dps check comes forward players complain. (original dread guards nim - that was prolly a true dps check)

 

we can also say that only a few, very little , classes in the game cant clear the tighest DPS checks, but for sure not a HM, or definitly not an Anni marauder - marauder will still be able to pull all the necessairy numbers to clear all PvE content despict this nerf.

 

ps:

 

Video or it didn't happen.

 

Prove it mathematically or move on.

[Threjyan]

Video or it didn't happen.

 

Prove it mathematically or move on.

 

yes ofc, we will record us clearing styrak hm cause styrak hm is too stronk.

 

maths, well, i can live up to the challenge of calculating that for you, but i cant promise it will be today ok?

Edited September 25, 2017 by Threjyan

[RikuvonDrake]

While I completely agree with this point (every class can do every HM check, and only some specific NiM fights might make some classes - sorcs for example - require a carry), the points about nerfs making HM un-doable for some people still stands.

 

No I don't think so, because these are the players that are running away from Bestia and not doing DPS when they get the red circle, these are the players that during Titan 6 red circles move around without doing DPS, there are the players that instead of stacking up on Cartel Warlords spread out enabling Vilus to jump all around the room. These are the players who have low APM, only knows the fight from one perspective and never cared about understanding mechanics.

 

For all of these players, spending a little time on learning and understanding mechanics, rotations, ways to approach a fight for their specific class, using rotation while moving or playing a spec that suits them better (a player with slow reaction speed should perhaps not run a spec that is melee and demands high APM, a player who struggles to move and DPS should perhaps run a DPS spec etc.). All of these factors would improve their DPS heavily.

 

I think it's sad that people really focus on this loss of DPS instead of focusing on which other shortcomings they have which could improve their DPS a lot more, there are more factors which contribute to high DPS than just "potential DPS on a Dummy", and yet that is what people focus on the most.

Edited September 25, 2017 by RikuvonDrake

[Machricar]

You can check Parsely and see that NIM Styrak has been killed by most specs post-5.3 (including IO/Arsenal/Pyro/Madness/Lightning/Marksman) Edited September 25, 2017 by Machricar

[Eloi_BG]

No I don't think so, because these are the players that are running away from Bestia and not doing DPS when they get the red circle, these are the players that during Titan 6 red circles move around without doing DPS, there are the players that instead of stacking up on Cartel Warlords spread out enabling Vilus to jump all around the room. These are the players who have low APM, only knows the fight from one perspective and never cared about understanding mechanics.

 

For all of these players, spending a little time on learning and understanding mechanics, rotations, ways to approach a fight for their specific class, using rotation while moving or playing a spec that suits them better (a player with slow reaction speed should perhaps not run a spec that is melee and demands high APM, a player who struggles to move and DPS should perhaps run a DPS spec etc.). All of these factors would improve their DPS heavily.

 

I think it's sad that people really focus on this loss of DPS instead of focusing on which other shortcomings they have which could improve their DPS a lot more, there are more factors which contribute to high DPS than just "potential DPS on a Dummy", and yet that is what people focus on the most.

 

I guess I should have more carefully worded my point. The point really is: raising the skill cap required to clear a boss during an expansion (not talking about first few weeks adjustments, we are now months into 5.0) really sucks for everyone.

[shyroman]

I guess I should have more carefully worded my point. The point really is: raising the skill cap required to clear a boss during an expansion (not talking about first few weeks adjustments, we are now months into 5.0) really sucks for everyone.

 

It only sucks for people who don't want to get better at their class. I've had people come to me for slingers and have their dps increased by over 1k because they made an effort to get better. Most people complaining can make huge increases to their dps so that they no longer have that dps problem.

[RikuvonDrake]

I guess I should have more carefully worded my point. The point really is: raising the skill cap required to clear a boss during an expansion (not talking about first few weeks adjustments, we are now months into 5.0) really sucks for everyone.

 

Yes, that is a really fair point, but again that is most likely a truth with a modification still because we have seen an average ~500 DPS increase from 242 BIS to 248 BIS, the skill needed to clear most Nightmare bosses is more or less the same now compared to during 242 days.

Edited September 25, 2017 by RikuvonDrake

[Eloi_BG]

It only sucks for people who don't want to get better at their class. I've had people come to me for slingers and have their dps increased by over 1k because they made an effort to get better. Most people complaining can make huge increases to their dps so that they no longer have that dps problem.

 

I guess we can just agree to disagree there. The most fun I have in this game is progressing through fights/operations, struggling with my friends to get kills and then eventually get them. It does include getting better and pulling better numbers, but it does not include being perfect all the time. It also doesn't include wiping again on the boss after having on farm for 2-3 weeks cause we lost 1k-1.5k DPS and a bunch of HPS. No satisfaction comes for me the second time I prog through a boss (in the same expansion, with the same group and same roles), and this is not about "I don't want to get better". Hope you understand the point (even if you don't agree).

 

I also think it's not most people that complain (cause most people don't use forums). Some just quit cause they don't like regression and it's hurting the community (don't know if it's the nerf or lack of content, but since 5.3 population that do operations has decreased).

[Eloi_BG]

Yes, that is a really fair point, but again that is most likely a truth with a modification still because we have seen an average ~500 DPS increase from 242 BIS to 248 BIS, the skill needed to clear most Nightmare bosses is more or less the same now compared to during 242 days.

 

I agree it's pretty much the same (depending on group comp), but tbh adding gear then slowly nerfing everything to compensate isn't really a good approach. Basically forcing people to get more gear just to be able to do the stuff they were able to before (especially after giving them 3 months of both gear and un-nerfed classes).

[KendraP]

I've said elsewhere I thought the merc/mando dps nerfs were too much and that it was their DCDs that needed adjusting. And by the way I'm a tank / melee dps player on guardians (defense / vigi).

 

I believe most people were saying the same thing I was on this front. Bw decided the game has a dps balance problem not us.the only reason anyone was happy for the merc nerf was because of facing teams of like 6 mercs and 2 snipers in PvP.

 

I've said on this very forum that based on the number of specs/classes that have been/are being nerfed, it seems obvious bw feels most classes are overperforming dps wise. I tend to agree that this makes the harder dps checks more difficult, especially on certain classes. But we have no idea what the target dps is nor where the data to decide target dps comes from. Either of these would be incredibly useful going forward.

 

In the meantime how about we work together rather than bashing on each other and maybe they will be more inclined to read our ideas?

[RikuvonDrake]

I agree it's pretty much the same (depending on group comp), but tbh adding gear then slowly nerfing everything to compensate isn't really a good approach. Basically forcing people to get more gear just to be able to do the stuff they were able to before (especially after giving them 3 months of both gear and un-nerfed classes).

 

No, I totally agree, my initial suggestion was for Bioware to increase their target DPS/HPS and just equally buff boss HP/Damage, from prior experience in WoW, players generally dislike DPS nerf despite them not playing at a level in which it matters. The "forcing" people to get more gear is an argument I kinda disagree because I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing in general (For Nightmare and HM for lower skill players), although in this case, I agree because it impacts SM/HM people as well.

 

That said, I don't think Bioware intended for improved gear to offset the nerfs that they are doing, just that players, in general, are simply doing way too much damage/healing and wanted to readjust for that to ensure PvP is better balanced and that there is still a challenge in PvE.

 

I've said elsewhere I thought the merc/mando dps nerfs were too much and that it was their DCDs that needed adjusting.

 

Arsenal was in dire need of a readjustment when it came to their DPS and in particular, the sustained damage, that said it can be argued that the nerf was 100-200 DPS to harsh but seeing the MM nerfs at least the devs are consistent. And I disagree, I don't think that anyone is really bashing on other players, it's just we identify, correctly, that for many players the nerfs aren't relevant because they not at a point where they play the class to that potential, and yet these players are the ones that complain the loudest.

Edited September 25, 2017 by RikuvonDrake

[shyroman]

I guess we can just agree to disagree there. The most fun I have in this game is progressing through fights/operations, struggling with my friends to get kills and then eventually get them. It does include getting better and pulling better numbers, but it does not include being perfect all the time. It also doesn't include wiping again on the boss after having on farm for 2-3 weeks cause we lost 1k-1.5k DPS and a bunch of HPS. No satisfaction comes for me the second time I prog through a boss (in the same expansion, with the same group and same roles), and this is not about "I don't want to get better". Hope you understand the point (even if you don't agree).

 

I also think it's not most people that complain (cause most people don't use forums). Some just quit cause they don't like regression and it's hurting the community (don't know if it's the nerf or lack of content, but since 5.3 population that do operations has decreased).

 

I agree it sucks to be wiping on a boss that was previously on farm because of dps checks, but that's solved by hitting the dummy and practicing rotations so that the dps checks no longer become an issue. If people just spent the time to do that, then they wouldn't be progressing on a boss for a second time. It's a bit harder for healers to get better than for dps, but there are ways to practice that as well. If your group lost 1.5k dps from all the nerfs, that would just be a 375 dps increase per person which is easily doable just by practicing optimal rotations.

[ivanhedgehog]

It only sucks for people who don't want to get better at their class. I've had people come to me for slingers and have their dps increased by over 1k because they made an effort to get better. Most people complaining can make huge increases to their dps so that they no longer have that dps problem.

 

You can spout this line all you want. The devs have a choice, they can cater to the few elitists with the "LRN2 Play" meme or they can have a game where more of their PAYING customers feel welcome. Simple choice for them to make. They havent been doing very well at this so far and a summer of nerfs is not moving them in the right direction.

[shyroman]

You can spout this line all you want. The devs have a choice, they can cater to the few elitists with the "LRN2 Play" meme or they can have a game where more of their PAYING customers feel welcome. Simple choice for them to make. They havent been doing very well at this so far and a summer of nerfs is not moving them in the right direction.

 

I definitely think that the better option would to be to buff the ops instead of nerfing dps because it doesn't feel good to be nerfed. My argument is that when people say that these nerfs are killing the class, or are making it impossible to use them, that they are wrong. Straight up wrong, because even after the nerfs, every class can clear all content, and every spec can clear at least 90% of nim content without being carried at all (and therefor all hm content and below). People would just rather blame the nerfs than their own shortcomings.