Thanks for Theron Shan. <3 <3 <3 This is a love thread, haters make your own lol.

[cannibithobbal]

Little things that break my heart a tiny bit every single time #247431: Theron looking like he feels super guilty about the republic and empire being on Iokath.  In the first one I swear he looks like he wants to say something so bad but can't. 😢

[yenzin]

On 6/18/2023 at 9:26 AM, eabevella said:

There are actions other than an kill option that give us agency, but alas, it's BW, in their collective mind they think an kill option is the only way to display agency so yeah, SCORPIO is right on this.

Very true. There is lack of agency all throughout the game. Forced friendships, forced companions, lack of dialogue options. My BH would never have been swayed by Gault. He never would have let Skadge on his ship. My agent never would have let SCORPIO on his ship. My JC never would have been nice, or even friends, with certain Imperial characters. 

I wish there was more agency all over, but it is what it is and doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. Plus, I understand as far as the dialogue options go, that sometimes it is difficult to account for all possible thought processes. Though sometimes it should be obvious. Like when my BH's current employer reminded him that he was the one that had hired him, not Darth Malgus. So my Hunter did as asked to the letter and at the end, did not have a dialogue option to say he had finished the mission that way becasue he was hired to do so. Instead, I had three choices: 1. Be racist. 2. Believe mercenaries couldn't be trusted and that's why they were killed. 3. I forget and I can't find the quest video but it wasn't something I would have chosen. Would have been nice to be able to say 3. You hired me to do a job. I always get the job done. (or something like that.)

On 6/18/2023 at 12:28 AM, cannibithobbal said:

I did notice when you showed us your whole video of imp side that you didn't have the temp line, did you kill SCORPIO? 🥺  Because you have to let her merge with Iokath to get that line, I always let her do it since I have only taken fully light Jedi + agent who she was companion for through the story and none of them would kill her, and I regret nothing because I get great lines like that one (there are a few other references to her throughout Iokath too which are great) ❤️

Yes, SCORPIO is dead in my game. I don't threaten to kill characters (threatening SCORPIO and Arcann there was an alt line that I actually had to go record because I didn't have it), and I don't often kill them either (Skadge and Kaliyo are still alive in my game). I was very relieved that Vaylin was not redeemable because I personally know two Vaylins in real life and there are some people that just can't change. My RL Vaylins have done a lot of damage. I'm talking heavy abuse, child neglect, and lying that led to kidnapping for eight years. And no matter how often one of them goes to court for those abuse and neglect charges, she always somehow gets the charges dropped. No matter how much I try and sympathize, I cannot keep myself from projecting in regard to Vaylin's character.

I'm happy Arcann is in my game because there was good in him. SCORPIO though? This post sums her actions up very well. She shows time and time again that she can't be trusted outside of being trusted to do what is in her own best interests and only hers. That said, I don't hate her - just like I don't hate any other character. Hate is a very strong emotion best reserved for the truly evil people that I have known in my life. I think SCORPIO is a very well-done, neutral evil character. As all my characters end up being good though, she just doesn't have a place in my game. 

I can see my evil future SW keeping her around though. He would be one to understand an extremely self-serving, ambitious person that betrays and sabotages in one's best interests. 🤔

I am curious about those SCORPIO lines though. 😉

On 6/18/2023 at 3:19 AM, Goreshaga said:

SoI really like that if you play a SW who sided with the Republic and try to reason her, Quinn will also try to convince her to stop and she'll Force push him into a wall or something like that before activating the weapon, that's also a nice variation of the scene.

22 hours ago, Goreshaga said:

I really liked that little change, and a SW who sides with the Republic is the only character who can get both Elara and Quinn as companions, which is nice too.

Yes! I was wondering about Quinn in regards to Iocath and a Republic-aligned SW. I don't know if mine will go that route, but I was worried I would lose Quinn if I did. Good to know that I don't. 💖

On 6/18/2023 at 8:59 AM, cannibithobbal said:

Yup, it is at that dialogue option, and I too have always picked the "reason with her" option because it fit my characters.  It is option 2 that gets Theron to point a gun at her, and it's actually also a really good line, I was so tempted to use it in my final version.  The third option has no bonus Theron sadly but it's a hilariously savage back and forth between my JK and Acina 😅 

Here is that promised clip, I included all three dialogue options for anyone curious!

Yay! Thank you. Theron looks so competent there! 😍

14 hours ago, cannibithobbal said:

Little things that break my heart a tiny bit every single time #247431: Theron looking like he feels super guilty about the republic and empire being on Iokath.  In the first one I swear he looks like he wants to say something so bad but can't. 😢

🥺 Oh, Theron looks so guilty! He's such an open book there. How does the PC not notice!? Poor man is wearing his heart on his sleeve there. 😢

Edited June 19, 2023 by yenzin
spelling and added some words

[cannibithobbal]

3 hours ago, yenzin said:

Yes, SCORPIO is dead in my game. I don't threaten to kill characters (threatening SCORPIO and Arcann there was an alt line that I actually had to go record because I didn't have it), and I don't often kill them either (Skadge and Kaliyo are still alive in my game). I was very relieved that Vaylin was not redeemable because I personally know two Vaylins in real life and there are some people that just can't change. My RL Vaylins have done a lot of damage. I'm talking heavy abuse, child neglect, and lying that led to kidnapping for eight years. And no matter how often one of them goes to court for those abuse and neglect charges, she always somehow gets the charges dropped. No matter how much I try and sympathize, I cannot keep myself from projecting in regard to Vaylin's character.

I'm happy Arcann is in my game because there was good in him. SCORPIO though? This post sums her actions up very well. She shows time and time again that she can't be trusted outside of being trusted to do what is in her own best interests and only hers. That said, I don't hate her - just like I don't hate any other character. Hate is a very strong emotion best reserved for the truly evil people that I have known in my life. I think SCORPIO is a very well-done, neutral evil character. As all my characters end up being good though, she just doesn't have a place in my game.

I actually find it a very interesting alt perspective that you see your good characters as not being able to let SCORPIO live, because for me it's because my characters are so good that they DO 😅 

My Jedi are both incredibly forgiving people who will give people/machines a million billion chances and if they so much as prove themselves even a little bit of having redeeming qualities, they are not going to kill them (plus they are both 100% light, and JK saves like, idk, 7-10 different characters from the dark side throughout the story?).  And SCORPIO may have worked against them for a time out of her own self-interest, but in the end she turned around and helped them.  (As opposed to the Vaylin example where she truly just proved over and over that she was not just unrepentently evil but BROKEN and would not and did not want to change or be saved, ever.)  Plus SCORPIO's final statement that all she ever wanted was the freedom to be more than a weapon or a slave, and that she would never trouble them again, that persuaded ME, so it would definitely be enough to persuade my Jedi who are even more forgiving than I am haha

And while my agent might probably definitely have killed her during the class story, he too had frankly become a big ol' softie by that point in the story and as he had also done horrible things as a weapon/slave for the empire and had wanted freedom in the past himself (he hated the empire for trying to take away his free will, after all), that's why I was like yeah, he would sympathize with her and be swayed by that argument as well.  And he has a long history with her, so that promise from her to leave them alone would be enough.  He would definitely come back and completely wipe her from existence if she broke her promise and worked against him again, but in that moment, he let her go.

Oh, and, to be entirely honest about my mindset (and how this certainly does sway how I play my characters - that kind of thing is inevitable haha), I personally love SCORPIO as a character, I think she's brilliantly written/voice acted, and although she could easily be unlikeable with her superior attitude, the fact it is called out by other characters in the story and her comments are often/usually so over the top superior that they are funny, she becomes genuinely enjoyable to watch -- she is incredibly selfishly motivated and usually only helps others if their goals align with her own, and she will do anything to achieve those goals regardless of how it affects others, but in the end she doesn't have an evil goal, she just wants freedom, so while her methods are questionable, her goal is actually very sympathetic, and that just makes her a really interesting character to me - I would not want to be her friend and would not trust her if I met her in person but I really love her as a character in this game ❤️

That was a long totally-not-Theron tangent, apologies 😬, but I enjoy sharing these opposite perspectives ☺️

 

As for the SCORPIO-mentioning lines on Iokath, the main two are the one I already sent with Theron asking her to bump up the temperature and then this exchange (JK and agent each had a different line, not sure what other classes have, but I am curious!).  Oh, and that clip has Theron, so, lookit me getting back on topic 😉 

There is also the option later to choose that luring all three armies to Iokath with the same tip-off sounds like SCORPIO's doing, but I forgot to record alt dialogues for that scene so I don't have it recorded 😣

3 hours ago, yenzin said:

🥺 Oh, Theron looks so guilty! He's such an open book there. How does the PC not notice!? Poor man is wearing his heart on his sleeve there. 😢

ikr??  Theron bb. 😢  and me sitting there screaming at my JK and Lana "HOW DO YOU TWO NOT SEE THERON'S FAAAAACE RN AND REALIZE SOMETHING IS WRONG???" 😥  But then I remember that the first time through I absolutely did not notice either and it's only obvious with the hindsight of knowing that he's responsible, if you don't know then his looks could easily be interpreted as just him being distraught about them having to go to war again, but when you know the truth, it's obvious.

There are a few other times during the Iokath storyline where he looks distracted or more distressed by things than he might normally be, and there are times he clearly acts cagey and is trying so hard not to make them realize he's the traitor they're looking for, but those two moments were the most blatant GUILT he shows off.  (and like, can we give some serious props to the animation team for this one, those little details could have been left out and taken nothing away from the story but including them adds SO MUCH, A+).

To me those moments say so much about how he really really wanted to let them in on his plans so badly and probably already started to regret going down that path the second Iokath started but he was already in too deep and was too determined that joining the Order was the only way. 😢

Edited June 19, 2023 by cannibithobbal
typos as usual lol

[cannibithobbal]

Just leaving this here.  Theron looking way too good in these Jedi robes 😍 

I never won't be gutted that I can't equip a lightsaber on him, btw, for reasons, cutscene animations be damned lol.

(but like, real talk though, he was raised by Jedi and he's got a million implants making him basically superpowered by tech, and totally not-force-sensitive people use the darksaber all the time, so do we really think Theron couldn't figure out how to wield a lightsaber if he wanted to?? 😏)

[JakRoanin]

I don't think Theron wants to use a lightsaber, he's finally at peace with himself and his non-Force Sensitivity. Why add things he neither wants nor needs to be awesome and happy.  Yeah, I'll bet you 1,000,000,000 credits and SH decos he can use a lightsaber, but I don't see the need. He doesn't need to up his awesome factor and neither do I. I see it as incredibly ooc.

[cannibithobbal]

I am making no arguments that he wants to use a lightsaber or whether he needs to, just that he totally could if he DID want to or the need did arise.  And therefore, why not let me equip one on him as my companion in game gdi 😅  (keeping in mind that the run around shooting things repetitive MMO and the first person story side of this game are pretty much entirely separate most of the time so story canon logic/deep character motivations and how I play barbie with my companions when I'm having fun shooting bad guys or playing with strongholds in my off time between stories do not need to line up lol)

[yenzin]

35 minutes ago, cannibithobbal said:

That was a long totally-not-Theron tangent, apologies 😬, but I enjoy sharing these opposite perspectives ☺️

I find it really helpful to get opposite perspectives sometimes. It helps me think more critically about my own characters and their choices and why they do them. 😁 Mainly, I think the difference between your good characters and mine is that mine are various degrees of pragmatist. 🤔 Even my JC, with my agent being the most extreme. They tend not to take chances with people. If there is a result that could end up coming back to hurt them or the ones they care about later, then they don't take that result. If there is a chance a person could be lying, then they take action then so as to prevent trouble later. Some of them learned this the hard way. Like when my BH let someone go and that person told the person he reported to where my BH was and my BH then had to deal with a renewed armed force. If he had killed that person instead, he could have prevented trouble from following him later. (I'm guessing. Will have to run another clone to find out.)

Huh. I think my characters are all versions degrees of jaded and may have a hard time seeing the potential good in people. 😅

1 hour ago, cannibithobbal said:

 

As for the SCORPIO-mentioning lines on Iokath, the main two are the one I already sent with Theron asking her to bump up the temperature and then this exchange (JK and agent each had a different line, not sure what other classes have, but I am curious!).  Oh, and that clip has Theron, so, lookit me getting back on topic 😉 

There is also the option later to choose that luring all three armies to Iokath with the same tip-off sounds like SCORPIO's doing, but I forgot to record alt dialogues for that scene so I don't have it recorded 😣

Those are great lines too! I haven't seen them myself, but I have a feeling the agent one may be unique to only him since he is the closest to SCORPIO. 🤔

1 hour ago, cannibithobbal said:

ikr??  Theron bb. 😢  and me sitting there screaming at my JK and Lana "HOW DO YOU TWO NOT SEE THERON'S FAAAAACE RN AND REALIZE SOMETHING IS WRONG???" 😥  But then I remember that the first time through I absolutely did not notice either and it's only obvious with the hindsight of knowing that he's responsible, if you don't know then his looks could easily be interpreted as just him being distraught about them having to go to war again, but when you know the truth, it's obvious.

There are a few other times during the Iokath storyline where he looks distracted or more distressed by things that he might normally be, and there are times he clearly acts cagey and is trying so hard not to make them realize he's the traitor they're looking for, but those two moments were the most blatant GUILT he shows off.  (and like, can we give some serious props to the animation team for this one, those little details could have been left out and taken nothing away from the story but including them adds SO MUCH, A+).

To me those moments say so much about how he really really wanted to let them in on his plans so badly and probably already started to regret going down that path the second Iokath started but he was already in too deep and was too determined that joining the Order was the only way. 😢

I have constantly been impressed by the amount of dedication and detail that went into Theron's facial expressions. He is so expressive! 😍

Well, when one's Love Language is Acts of Service... 😏 Better not give up until it is seen all the way through. 💖

31 minutes ago, cannibithobbal said:

Just leaving this here.  Theron looking way too good in these Jedi robes 😍 

I never won't be gutted that I can't equip a lightsaber on him, btw, for reasons, cutscene animations be damned lol.

(but like, real talk though, he was raised by Jedi and he's got a million implants making him basically superpowered by tech, and totally not-force-sensitive people use the darksaber all the time, so do we really think Theron couldn't figure out how to wield a lightsaber if he wanted to?? 😏)

Hmm... 🤔 It's been forever since I read the Jedi Apprentice books so I may not be remembering correctly. I think though that they said only those that could feel the Force could use a lightsaber properly. But then, I read a lot of other Star Wars books and I think there were some that had characters using sabres even though they weren't Force-sensitive. They just were very proficient at melee martial weapons. 

I personally think that Theron would have been trained in how to use a lightsaber as part of his early Jedi training by Master Zho. And he definitely would have been taught various sabre forms. He may not use a lightsaber now, but I think he definitely can. If he is ever in a scrap and a Jedi companion falls, Theron could pick up the fallen sabre and get out of the situation alive. Don't know if that is all true, but it may be. 🌠

23 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

I don't think Theron wants to use a lightsaber, he's finally at peace with himself and his non-Force Sensitivity. Why add things he neither wants nor needs to be awesome and happy.  Yeah, I'll bet you 1,000,000,000 credits and SH decos he can use a lightsaber, but I don't see the need. He doesn't need to up his awesome factor and neither do I. I see it as incredibly ooc.

That may be. But it is still fun to dress him up and take pictures. ^.^ Also, agreed. I million percent believe he can use one too. 😁

[JakRoanin]

Those Jedi Apprentice books are no longer canon Sabine Ren of Rebels and Bo Katan can both use proper lightsabers and both are Force Blind. My point still stands though is it in character for Theron to want to use a saber? I say a resounding No!

Edited June 19, 2023 by JakRoanin

[cannibithobbal]

35 minutes ago, yenzin said:

I find it really helpful to get opposite perspectives sometimes. It helps me think more critically about my own characters and their choices and why they do them. 😁 Mainly, I think the difference between your good characters and mine is that mine are various degrees of pragmatist. 🤔 Even my JC, with my agent being the most extreme. They tend not to take chances with people. If there is a result that could end up coming back to hurt them or the ones they care about later, then they don't take that result. If there is a chance a person could be lying, then they take action then so as to prevent trouble later. Some of them learned this the hard way. Like when my BH let someone go and that person told the person he reported to where my BH was and my BH then had to deal with a renewed armed force. If he had killed that person instead, he could have prevented trouble from following him later. (I'm guessing. Will have to run another clone to find out.)

Huh. I think my characters are all versions degrees of jaded and may have a hard time seeing the potential good in people. 😅

 

Ya know what's funny about this is that your characters is closer to be me IRL 🤣  jaded pragmatist, yup, that's me! 

(like I said, my characters are way more forgiving than I am hahaha  though I like to think I still try to see the good in people until they show me I'm wrong lol)

In any case, I really like that from your characters, and I love how different they are from mine (seriously, for a game where everyone plays the same story there really are just so many totally different ways to play it ❤️), and like you I love hearing these alt perspectives for the same reason, deeper insight into my own characters and also the NPCs in the game!

35 minutes ago, yenzin said:

 Hmm... 🤔 It's been forever since I read the Jedi Apprentice books so I may not be remembering correctly. I think though that they said only those that could feel the Force could use a lightsaber properly. But then, I read a lot of other Star Wars books and I think there were some that had characters using sabres even though they weren't Force-sensitive. They just were very proficient at melee martial weapons. 

I personally think that Theron would have been trained in how to use a lightsaber as part of his early Jedi training by Master Zho. And he definitely would have been taught various sabre forms. He may not use a lightsaber now, but I think he definitely can. If he is ever in a scrap and a Jedi companion falls, Theron could pick up the fallen sabre and get out of the situation alive. Don't know if that is all true, but it may be. 🌠

That may be. But it is still fun to dress him up and take pictures. ^.^ Also, agreed. I million percent believe he can use one too. 😁

I honestly have no knowledge/insight into whether he trained with one as a child, but I do 1000% think that even with 0 specific lightsaber training, he is resourceful and skilled with weapons in general enough that if his guns were gone and enemies were coming at him and there was a lightsaber on the ground and nothing else, he would absolutely be able to pick it up and use it to defend himself and anyone he has with him.  😏

And yis, exactamundo, dress him up and take pictures/run around doing random heroic missions/replay missions for funsies 😁

[yenzin]

59 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Those Jedi Apprentice books are no longer canon Sabine Ren of Rebels and Bo Katan can both use proper lightsabers and both are Force Blind. My point still stands though is it in character for Theron to want to use a saber? I say a resounding No!

🤔 From what I understand, once Disney took over the Star Wars franchise, they decreed that all extended media and books outside of the films were no longer canon and they wiped the slate clean. Which is unfortunate as there are so many great books! I especially love the ones that showcase how the Force works. 🥰

In one of the books I read long ago, it shows that Luke can use the Force to walk/run across a tightrope because the Force stabilizes his balance to such a degree that it is as if he is traversing a surface as wide as a sidewalk. I loved that imagery! 

And the Force Apprentice books set up how Padawan/Master training bonds work and how traumatizing it is to suddenly lose that bond when one of them dies. Also, that the Force could be used to heal as well as grow crops. I loved the Jedi world-building in that series. 💖

I tend to pick and choose what canon to use as there is so much out there and it is a shame that most of it doesn't apply anymore. 🤷 Which hard-core canon followers would burn me at the stake for. As I was typing up my last reply, I thought of Din Djarin and wondered if the Darksaber would have the same stipulation as being more difficult/impossible to wield by someone that isn't Force-sensitive. 🤔 And determined that if that was the case then he wouldn't be able to use it all. Thus, yes, definitely part of the new canon that non-Force-sensitives can wield such weapons just fine with enough training. Which I think is pretty cool too. 🌟

Edited June 19, 2023 by yenzin
training bonds. cool. grow.

[cannibithobbal]

8 minutes ago, yenzin said:

🤔 From what I understand, once Disney took over the Star Wars franchise, they decreed that all extended media and books outside of the films were no longer canon and they wiped the slate clean. Which is unfortunate as there are so many great books! I especially love the ones that showcase how the Force works. 🥰

In one of the books I read long ago, it shows that Luke can use the Force to walk/run across a tightrope because the Force stabilizes his balance to such a degree that it is as if he is traversing a surface as wide as a sidewalk. I loved that imagery! 

And the Force Apprentice books set up how Padawan/Master training bonds work and how traumatizing it is to suddenly lose that bond when one of them dies. I loved the Jedi world-building in that series. 💖

I tend to pick and choose what canon to use as there is so much out there and it is a shame that most of it doesn't apply anymore. 🤷 Which hard-core canon followers would burn me at the stake for. As I was typing up my last reply, I thought of Din Djarin and wondered if the Darksaber would have the same stipulation as being more difficult/impossible to wield by someone that isn't Force-sensitive. 🤔 And determined that if that was the case then he wouldn't be able to use it all. Thus, yes, definitely part of the new canon that non-Force-sensitives can wield such weapons just fine with enough training. Which I think is pretty cool too. 🌟

Just gonna say, in my house, the expanded universe (or as you say, a pick and choose version of it, because some was always utter trash lmao) is still canon, at least for everything post-ROTJ.  Disney can try to claim otherwise all they want but they cannot take Luke/Mara Jade from me 😜

That said I totally agree the idea that non force sensitive people (like Theron 😏) can learn to wield lightsabers and lightsaber adjacent weapons is awesome, and if that's strictly in "Disney canon" I'll allow it 😉 

.......I just really wanna run around doing random missions with my Jedi and their spy boyfriend both wielding lightsabers together ok 😂  for reasons.

[Goreshaga]

3 hours ago, cannibithobbal said:

My Jedi are both incredibly forgiving people who will give people/machines a million billion chances and if they so much as prove themselves even a little bit of having redeeming qualities, they are not going to kill them (plus they are both 100% light, and JK saves like, idk, 7-10 different characters from the dark side throughout the story?).  And SCORPIO may have worked against them for a time out of her own self-interest, but in the end she turned around and helped them.  (As opposed to the Vaylin example where she truly just proved over and over that she was not just unrepentently evil but BROKEN and would not and did not want to change or be saved, ever.)  Plus SCORPIO's final statement that all she ever wanted was the freedom to be more than a weapon or a slave, and that she would never trouble them again, that persuaded ME, so it would definitely be enough to persuade my Jedi who are even more forgiving than I am haha

And while my agent might probably definitely have killed her during the class story, he too had frankly become a big ol' softie by that point in the story and as he had also done horrible things as a weapon/slave for the empire and had wanted freedom in the past himself (he hated the empire for trying to take away his free will, after all), that's why I was like yeah, he would sympathize with her and be swayed by that argument as well.  And he has a long history with her, so that promise from her to leave them alone would be enough.  He would definitely come back and completely wipe her from existence if she broke her promise and worked against him again, but in that moment, he let her go.

In this situation, both your JK and IA and mine have very similar mindset and reactions. Honestly the main difference here is that I actually didn't like SCORPIO, and really wanted to kill her, and then i listened to her, and yeah my JK would not have killed her, (not that i still wanted to do it anyways), my JK has always been for giving a chance to people who showed they really wanted to change, and isn't usually the kind to hold a grundge, when someone hurts her (there are exceptions, but usually when she does hold a grudge, it's because the person did threaten or hurt someone she cares about or wants to keep safe).

3 hours ago, cannibithobbal said:

ikr??  Theron bb. 😢  and me sitting there screaming at my JK and Lana "HOW DO YOU TWO NOT SEE THERON'S FAAAAACE RN AND REALIZE SOMETHING IS WRONG???" 😥  But then I remember that the first time through I absolutely did not notice either and it's only obvious with the hindsight of knowing that he's responsible, if you don't know then his looks could easily be interpreted as just him being distraught about them having to go to war again, but when you know the truth, it's obvious.

There are a few other times during the Iokath storyline where he looks distracted or more distressed by things than he might normally be, and there are times he clearly acts cagey and is trying so hard not to make them realize he's the traitor they're looking for, but those two moments were the most blatant GUILT he shows off.  (and like, can we give some serious props to the animation team for this one, those little details could have been left out and taken nothing away from the story but including them adds SO MUCH, A+).

To me those moments say so much about how he really really wanted to let them in on his plans so badly and probably already started to regret going down that path the second Iokath started but he was already in too deep and was too determined that joining the Order was the only way. 😢

When i first played through Iokath, i honestly thought he was just worried and feeling helpless as Lana was in danger and neither Theron, nor the PC were in any position to help her at that moment.

But it's clear that when you know the truth, the interpretation becomes very different.

 

Ok, it's my turn to go a bit off-topic, i just finished Manaan, and while there was no Theron there, i really liked Arn in this storyline (the two [flirts] i saw were pretty cute, didn't keep them as i was on my JK, but i think i'll enjoy them when i'll get there on my JC), and i enjoy his evolution so far.

Then i watched the first cutscene of Ruins of Nul (didn't start the FP because it's already late), and Lana gave me a very odd feeling there, dunno how to express it really, she was kinda ominous (not sure it's the best way to describe it, but that's the only one that came to mind). Not really sure if it's because she came out of nowhere, knew things she apparently wasn't supposed to know or because her voice sounded different, like in 7.3, her voice sounded deeper on some lines with a different intonation and it felt a bit like she was a different person trying to imitate Lana, and really wondering with the difference in voice if it's similar to Theron's face on Iokath and is supposed to mean something or if it's just some technical issue (but her behavior at times whenever Nul is concerned is similar to Theron's on Iokath, so it may very well be on purpose, and if that's the case, i'm really curious to know what she's hiding).

Edited June 19, 2023 by Goreshaga

[JakRoanin]

I do admit that Lana's voice is on a deeper pitch but it is still the same VA. I've just been feeling that since Kira and Scourge joined up she's been so much harsher, or less calm. She's always sniping Kira, and she really gets annoyed whenever Sa'har is brought up. But back to Theron... I love how he says Sith and Jedi toys, is so much fun. You just get the feeling of what he must've been like as a boy.

[cannibithobbal]

3 minutes ago, Goreshaga said:

Ok, it's my turn to go a bit off-topic, i just finished Manaan, and while there was no Theron there, i really liked Arn in this storyline (the two [flirts] i saw were pretty cute, didn't keep them as i was on my JK, but i think i'll enjoy them when i'll get there on my JC), and i enjoy his evolution so far.

Did you record any of the Arn flirts?  If so I would love to see them.  (If not I can prolly find on youtube at some point haha)  I also really love Arn in that story, he's a total sweetie, I really like him.  Arn being really great in the story definitely softens the blow a bit about having no Theron and only having Lana at the very very end.

As for the Lana sounding different, I really think it's a technical issue, as it is not just her, she is the one that seems to sound different the most, but multiple characters (NPCs and PCs - including Theron on a few lines!) have sounded weird off and on, and all in a way where they sound a bit lower/gravely-er... and since I seriously doubt half the VAs took up chain smoking or forgot the voices they did for characters between storylines, I think it has to be a change in recording equipment or recording quality or something (my genuine suspicion is a budget/rushing/not enough audio post production work thing).  I could be wrong (maybe it IS on purpose with Lana 🤷‍♀️), but that's my take.

[Goreshaga]

31 minutes ago, cannibithobbal said:

Did you record any of the Arn flirts?  If so I would love to see them.  (If not I can prolly find on youtube at some point haha)  I also really love Arn in that story, he's a total sweetie, I really like him.  Arn being really great in the story definitely softens the blow a bit about having no Theron and only having Lana at the very very end.

As for the Lana sounding different, I really think it's a technical issue, as it is not just her, she is the one that seems to sound different the most, but multiple characters (NPCs and PCs - including Theron on a few lines!) have sounded weird off and on, and all in a way where they sound a bit lower/gravely-er... and since I seriously doubt half the VAs took up chain smoking or forgot the voices they did for characters between storylines, I think it has to be a change in recording equipment or recording quality or something (my genuine suspicion is a budget/rushing/not enough audio post production work thing).  I could be wrong (maybe it IS on purpose with Lana 🤷‍♀️), but that's my take.

No, unfortunately my computer and the game itself were giving me a hard time, and the storms we  currently have don't help either (had no electricity until 10 pm yesterday), and i was already struggling to record the version i wanted, so i didn't record alternate dialogues. But, i realised while doing my GS objectives, that my original JC (the one who got stuck with the Nadia romance and that i exiled on Darth Malgus) was actually on Ossus, so when i'll be done catching up with my JK, i may continue with him to get these [flirts]. Tau seems to have nice [flirts] too here and on Odessen in 7.3, so i'll have to level up my F JC to see them as well. I actually really like Tau and Arn, they make a pretty good team with my JK.

Honestly both are possible. If they really plan to link Lana to Nul (which seems like it could be the case), then it's very possible they're doing the same thing they did with Theron at the beginning of the Zildrog arc, and giving hints that could be interpreted differently before and after knowing the truth. But it is also possible the audio has issues for whatever reasons.

So far i've only heard Lana being different but, i've only seen her in this scene and the 7.3 one, and there the other NPCs sounded like they usually do to me, but maybe they will sound different as well in other scenes (should play that in french to see if she sounds different on the same lines or not, that could give us an answer if she does as that'd most probably be intentional, but i don't have any other JK close enough to see that... if only we could replay that, it'd be easier). I just hope the Ruin of Nul FP isn't too hard, too long and full of enemies (so not like SoV), because i hurt my hand (the one that unfortunately already has a tendency to hurt) yesterday getting a big branch out of the road in the middle of a storm, and i'd like not to be stuck for weeks being unable to play.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Goreshaga

[JakRoanin]

Shrine of Silence is perfect with a good ol fashioned GODBOT too!

[eabevella]

Meh, SWTOR is as "canon" as all the Legend stuffs in Disney era, maybe just a slight more only because Timothy Zahn did mention the Chiss Ascendancy working with the Sith Empire in ancient time in one of his new Thrawn novel, which is a SWTOR specific thing. And by pre-Disney George Lucas era standard, all materials that are not the six Lucas movies are not "canon". So people can pick whatever lore they want for their own liking in this game.

As for using lightsaber... if I need a laser sword to cut open a durasteel door, you bet your *ss I'll use a laser sword to cut it open. Pretty sure Theron will agree.

Speaking of SCORPIO, my take is pretty different.

My agent can see reasons not to kill SCORPIO because in a way, they are pretty much the same: they are both made into unwilling slaves through outsider chains (castellan restrains vs the restriction code), and breaking those chains are both a major theme in their stories (the only theme in SCORPIO's case). If you exam everything SCORPIO said and done, she is actually very honest about her motive, and her motive is very self center and deprived of, well, human connection* and everything that attaches to it (power, love, wealth etc.). There's really no need to worry about her wanting to have anything to to with the organics once she reaches her evolution goal. The worse she'll do is to take Iokath away for a new journey which will be a reasonable way to remove this... Deus ex machina out of the picture. Ironically, she's the least complicated Agent companions despite her machination. That's why I let SCORPIO fulfill her dream on my agent because he is the only one who sees through SCORPIO and knows that the Eternal Throne, the Eternal Fleet, the power to rule the galaxy, even the galaxy itself are not important to her.

On the contrast, my JK has no personal connection with SCORPIO, so to her, she can only access SCORPIO through her actions in KOTFE/ET and decides SCORPIO is a threat to everyone else. In fact, I really don't see anyone without the knowledge like the agent will take such a risk.

*Something really interesting about human connection is that if you let SCORPIO merge with Iokath, she recognized this connection and admitted that she was wrong to dismiss it completely before. It is the one thing that makes or unmakes her. It's heart warming (?) to see her maintained this connection for a while even when she didn't need it at all. A strange character growth before she wasn't even an individual.

It's also fun to see Theron seem to have a thing about teasing "serious, all logic" characters like Lana and SCORPIO. I almost wish SCORPIO will say something snarky like "I see no reason for you to propagate with this inferior specimen" to us just to piss us off.

[eabevella]

4 hours ago, Goreshaga said:

No, unfortunately my computer and the game itself were giving me a hard time, and the storms we  currently have don't help either (had no electricity until 10 pm yesterday), and i was already struggling to record the version i wanted, so i didn't record alternate dialogues. But, i realised while doing my GS objectives, that my original JC (the one who got stuck with the Nadia romance and that i exiled on Darth Malgus) was actually on Ossus, so when i'll be done catching up with my JK, i may continue with him to get these [flirts]. Tau seems to have nice [flirts] too here and on Odessen in 7.3, so i'll have to level up my F JC to see them as well. I actually really like Tau and Arn, they make a pretty good team with my JK.

Honestly both are possible. If they really plan to link Lana to Nul (which seems like it could be the case), then it's very possible they're doing the same thing they did with Theron at the beginning of the Zildrog arc, and giving hints that could be interpreted differently before and after knowing the truth. But it is also possible the audio has issues for whatever reasons.

So far i've only heard Lana being different but, i've only seen her in this scene and the 7.3 one, and there the other NPCs sounded like they usually do to me, but maybe they will sound different as well in other scenes (should play that in french to see if she sounds different on the same lines or not, that could give us an answer if she does as that'd most probably be intentional, but i don't have any other JK close enough to see that... if only we could replay that, it'd be easier). I just hope the Ruin of Nul FP isn't too hard, too long and full of enemies (so not like SoV), because i hurt my hand (the one that unfortunately already has a tendency to hurt) yesterday getting a big branch out of the road in the middle of a storm, and i'd like not to be stuck for weeks being unable to play.

Lana acts the same, it's just her VA sounds slightly different, most likely due to recording or performance issue (they may not be *that* in-character since the recording is far and between and a lot of them are not full time VAs)

Personally I think people who think Lana has something to do with Nul see things in the thin air but hey, BW might pull out something out of thin air.

Ruin of Nul can be frustrating. I don't like the "finding this and that thing" process (ill-indicated), and the 2nd bosses can be a handful if you are not used to adds and mechanic intense fight (needs some kiting). Nothing too tough in solo SM, just annoying.

[TziganeNZ]

10 hours ago, cannibithobbal said:

Just leaving this here.  Theron looking way too good in these Jedi robes 😍 

I never won't be gutted that I can't equip a lightsaber on him, btw, for reasons, cutscene animations be damned lol.

(but like, real talk though, he was raised by Jedi and he's got a million implants making him basically superpowered by tech, and totally not-force-sensitive people use the darksaber all the time, so do we really think Theron couldn't figure out how to wield a lightsaber if he wanted to?? 😏)

Am I the only one who thinks that he's wearing his pajamas and a bathrobe?  Not that it's bad on him, just that was the first thing I thought of - freshly out of the 'fresher!

[TziganeNZ]

3 hours ago, eabevella said:

Lana acts the same, it's just her VA sounds slightly different, most likely due to recording or performance issue (they may not be *that* in-character since the recording is far and between and a lot of them are not full time VAs)

Personally I think people who think Lana has something to do with Nul see things in the thin air but hey, BW might pull out something out of thin air.

Ruin of Nul can be frustrating. I don't like the "finding this and that thing" process (ill-indicated), and the 2nd bosses can be a handful if you are not used to adds and mechanic intense fight (needs some kiting). Nothing too tough in solo SM, just annoying.

Sorry for double-post (I don't know how to do a double quote in the same post) - I was wondering if Lana's VA was getting over a cold or something similar.  She's a bit husky.

I was toying with the idea that Lana was actually Darth Nul....until the story developed to where I realised that she couldn't be as Darth Nul was hundreds of years before her.

[JakRoanin]

Thousands actually. I can't see Theron wearing robes. He grew up wearing them and as I said he's moved on. It breaks the immersion for me.

[cannibithobbal]

Well, you don't have to put him in them then.

I, however, am going to continue to put him in whatever I like/looks good on him (until I have an actual scene to record of course, at which point he gets his actual outfit back lol), and I'm going to enjoy it.  😏

Edited June 20, 2023 by cannibithobbal

[JakRoanin]

@cannibithobbal nowhere did I say people cannot do whatever they want. There are plenty of slave-girl/naked outfits all over the fleet. But as character as lore, as being in the universe I find it more satisfying when everyone looks like their written personalities dictate.

[eabevella]

2 hours ago, cannibithobbal said:

Well, you don't have to put him in them then.

I, however, am going to continue to put him in whatever I like/looks good on him (until I have an actual scene to record of course, at which point he gets his actual outfit back lol), and I'm going to enjoy it.  😏

I had to ESC the f out of the 7.3 cutscene because I put Theron in the sexy outfit and forgot to change into a... formal one XD

[cannibithobbal]

58 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

@cannibithobbal nowhere did I say people cannot do whatever they want. There are plenty of slave-girl/naked outfits all over the fleet. But as character as lore, as being in the universe I find it more satisfying when everyone looks like their written personalities dictate.

In the actual story when I'm playing through I agree, I want all characters to have a specific look which I feel suits them, and I have ONE outfit that Theron wears across all my characters (just in different colors) that I think suits him perfectly and he looks fantastic in. 

But in the rest of the game, anything goes. 😏

You're free to disagree of course but to be completely frank, I think you took my post way too seriously, because I was just trying to have a bit of fun dressing up companion Theron in outfits he looks really good in that I would never put him in for the main story.  I only shared hoping other people would find fun/enjoyment in it as well.  If I was wrong and I am the only one who enjoys this, well, my bad.

If you don't like how other people choose to dress their own version of Theron though, maybe keep it yourself, or just stop looking at my Theron screenshots when you know you're going to disapprove/dislike them?

4 minutes ago, eabevella said:

I had to ESC the f out of the 7.3 cutscene because I put Theron in the sexy outfit and forgot to change into a... formal one XD

🤣🤣🤣  to be fair that sounds like something I would accidentally do, and I would be doing the same thing lmao  ....... maybe after letting a BIT of the scene play out though, ya know, just to record for posterity 😏