Thanks for Theron Shan. <3 <3 <3 This is a love thread, haters make your own lol.

[cannibithobbal]

Can confirm, my JK also gets a full kiss to the lips in EoO intro.   And it's actually one of my favorite kisses they have in the game.  The cheek kiss is adorable but imo the actual kiss fits the dialogue better!

There are definitely more in profile than that one (the proposal one is in profile, a few others) but the EoO one imo is the best profile kiss 😍

 

.....I'll respond to the rest later but had to get that in!  😅

Edited May 23, 2023 by cannibithobbal
fixed link - now links to timestamp

[yenzin]

19 minutes ago, cannibithobbal said:

Can confirm, my JK also gets a full kiss to the lips in EoO intro (skip to timestamp 4:10 btw, can't link to timestamp on phone)   And it's actually one of my favorite kisses they have in the game.  The cheek kiss is adorable but imo the actual kiss fits the dialogue better!

There are definitely more in profile than that one (the proposal one is in profile, a few others) but the EoO one imo is the best profile kiss 😍

 

.....I'll respond to the rest later but had to get that in!  😅

Agreed, I thought the profile kiss worked very well there too. I really love it! 🥰 Especially in the context of: 

Dev 1: Hmm... we haven't given the males a good profile kiss yet. 

Dev 2: Not true. There have been a few others.

Dev 4: (ignores that) Been using all the profile animations for the females.

Dev 3: Could give it to them now in this scene. As a reward.

Devs 1, 3, 4: Yeah. Okay. Sure. That works. 

Dev 2: 🙄 Sure, you can say that, 'That'll make it up to them.'

Dev 3: Yeah! That too.

Dev 2: 🤨 You all know this won't be the first one, right?

Other Devs: (ignore)

Dev 2: Right?! 

😄

Honestly, I forgot about the proposal kiss being in profile. How could I forget that!!! 😅 Silly me. I especially love the slow rotating camera view during it. 💖

 

Also, all these videos use the first Flirt option line. I really love that the second option leads to the kiss too. Just really shows that the romance is so deeply rooted by that point. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by yenzin
agreed. added a bit

[cannibithobbal]

Profile kisses often look a bit jank so I actually like that very often the boy-boy kisses are at an angle or over the shoulder, but the EoO is 😍

second favorite profile one (or like 95% profile) is end of Yavin, which only republic gets I believe, it is two short kisses in a row, but, well, the second one fades to black so 😉  (Here's that scene btw, Theron proposition starts at 1:46 😄)

Edited May 23, 2023 by cannibithobbal
fixed link - now links to timestamp

[cannibithobbal]

2 hours ago, yenzin said:

Exactly my thoughts! He is very capable, but he is ever so squishy and mortal. He has killed Sith Lord before, and he has one of the highest medals of honours out there, but better keep him safe, anyway. Just in case. 😉 🎶 👼 (And NO, Devs, I am not saying we want to keep him out of the content and in the shuttle! Don't even think it! 😝) More rescue scenes from him would be awesome too! Actually, is there a rescue scene? None is coming to mind. 🤔

I imagine that my character also has frequent nightmares about losing him to some insane Sith Lord, or avalanche, or spider droid, or rock fall, or assassin... Lots of dangers out there! Not worried about losing Theron to a bounty hunter though. For one, that hunter would have to come through me, and two, Theron can access the Blacklist and edit the posts there and make new bounties on it. Something only the major players in the galaxy know how to do. 😏 (I added dialogue from Mako about that. 😄) Compared to that, deleting normal bounty posts should be a piece of cake. There is no way a bounty is staying on him for long. 🤣 Not even that one that edge lord players can place on him. 🤭

Yeah, even though (as stated in other posts, hard to quote them all on my phone though, so I stuck to the one haha) it is a weeee bit of a stretch and mildly implying Theron cannot hold his own, and my characters totally respect him and his abilities so that really is a stretch, like, it IS the best HC to justify it. 

It also fits in very strongly with my JK HC that nearly losing Theron on Nathema was the closest he ever felt to the dark side and that he overcame it, but it still scares him.  Like, even though that experience mostly made him confident he can overcome it again and he wouldn't let the fear or pain control him (like he tells Arn!), there is always that niggling thought in the back of his mind and that voice of the Jedi order indoctrination of the code that he never believed in before but that small part of his mind is like "what if they were right, what if it'll turn me dark side" (the rational part of his mind does not think this, of course). 

Like I said though, I also just HC that they go on their own other missions separately (maybe after a bit of a talk - a really big talk - about those shared fears of losing each other!)

Ossus imo was the biggest missed time to have Theron though.  the PC is even like "I don't want to be apart from you again" and Theron is all "but I have to meet contacts, and you don't need me, you can handle it".  FFS THERON YOUR LI JUST NEARLY LOST YOU FOREVER, COME ON THIS MISSION, GNOST-DURAL IS YOUR FRIEND.

*ahem*, yes.  anyway.

2 hours ago, yenzin said:

I have never even peeked at the flirts. Gotta appreciate the way Agent checks her out there. 😂

ikr?  he checks her out harder than he's literally checked out any other woman in the entire game, it's so over the top. I was laughing so hard, I love him.  Her response is also weirdly adorable 😆

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by cannibithobbal
why do I keep noticing more typos......

[Goreshaga]

1 hour ago, yenzin said:

There's a cheek kiss?! 🤯

I looked back at that scene in my videos and that is the very first male/Theron kiss seen from the profile side view. 😲 First and only one so far as there have been no kisses since. So that was some nice variety from the over-the-shoulder camera angle. My character got a side kiss, but no cheek kiss. So I went to Youtube. Every single Theron romance video for that chapter is with a female character. Every one! If a person interested in the game were to look at the video lineup, they would think Theron was purely a straight option. I really need to get around to posting my romance videos. 

And there, with every single female character, even Sith females, is the cheek kiss. I could not find a male Republic character to test the theory that perhaps Republic males get a cheek kiss. 

It is a very sweet cheek kiss and smile. I find it interesting that there is such a difference between the gay and straight versions of the romance. 🧐I don't know what class that female character is. I'm not at all heavily biased here in that I prefer my maleBH's voice in that scene. 🎶

From what i understood, female PCs get the cheek kiss, male PCs get a regular kiss. Dunno why though. maybe someone thought two guys would not kiss each other on the cheeks ?

Seems like a fem JC to me, she seems to have a lightsaber and that's definitely not fem JK's voice. I like the male BH's voice more, but i'm also heavily biased and like the fem JK even more, i only have it in french though.

1 hour ago, yenzin said:

None is coming to mind. 🤔

Nope, pretty much every time the PC needs to be saved, it's always Lana doing it, except that time on Asylum where it can be Koth. I really wish Theron could be our savior at least once.

1 hour ago, yenzin said:

Yeah, I have to reaaalllllllyyyyyy stretch that HC of keeping him safe thing. Because, you are very right. It is insulting to keep him out of the combat. It heavily implies that he cannot take care of himself and can't be trusted to be proficient in combat enough to protect other people's backs either. But, thinking of it as a protective thing helps me justify his absence. As long as I don't think too deeply about the philosophy of that action. 😅

Yep, it's really a stretch for the PC to think that way.

1 hour ago, yenzin said:

It's nice that he is a bit more present. 🌟 But yes, that, 'I'll come with you for five minutes and then I'll have to leave to meet a contact thing,' is a bit old. He should've gone and then stayed behind with Gnost-Dural if only for the fact that the two of them know each other and have worked together before. Would have been a nice tie-in to extended out-of-game material too. 📖📘

I've come to absolutely hate that "contact" excuse, that's the trick they use most of the time when they don't want Theron to be with us and it irritates me to no end.

[cannibithobbal]

yeah, that video is fem JC.  the audio quality is not great so I almost didn't recognize her voice at first lol  but it's definitely her.  I totally forgot I got a cheek kiss with my JC, it was so long ago and I didn't record it

[cannibithobbal]

1 hour ago, Goreshaga said:

I've come to absolutely hate that "contact" excuse, that's the trick they use most of the time when they don't want Theron to be with us and it irritates me to no end.

I don't hate it-hate it, but I definitely always think it's really lazy.  Like, in character because they have him do it all the time, but, also pretty lazy, writing-wise.  That said, I'd rather have a scene of him showing up to tell us he's gotta meet a contact than to just not see him at all with no explanation whatsoever of why he doesn't come with, so, I take what I can get I guess lol

Theron's lucky we and our PCs trust him so completely too btw, because if anyone else tried to sneak off that often to meet unnamed "contacts" it would be seeeeriously suspicious and we would have to be having a very big talk. 😅

[JenaSalton]

To properly explain my headcanon as to why Theron is rarely on missions/mission control with the Outlander, we need to take a detour and explain my Lana headcanon.

Lana is someone I always saw as good at fighting, but not super great. Then, she was stabbed early in the Knights story (because my characters never agree to Valkorian's offer to share his power) and she never fully recovers from that. She is Sith and she can and will use her anger and pain as a way too push herself past what she probably should, but honestly if she can avoid being in the middle of combat, she probably should.

She's also not great at covert ops, which isn't surprising. I imagine most of what she learned was taught to her by Theron during the months between going into hiding and the start of Rishi; Theron teaches her because they both realize that if one of them dies, they still need to stop Revan, but Theron isn't teaching her the big spy stuff, because she's still a Sith. So she learns a lot, but there's a lot she doesn't know still.

Then, she gets put in charge of Sith Intelligence after Yavin. But, most of that is really rebuilding Sith Intelligence with a fairly limited number of agents. The Former Minister and Keeper are gone, so Lana has to try filling positions and learning on her own. She does well, but, not great. One of her trusted agents was actually a SIS agent after all. Plus, it's not like she was doing things that long before Ziost happens and a bunch of what she was doing and a bunch of her agents (presumably) were destroyed/killed. She's basically back to square one and not long after that, Zakuul attacks and everything goes bonkers again.

Life goes on and eventually the Alliance is formed. The Alliance and the commander are both incredibly important to Lana (whether because they're in a relationship, good friends, or simply Lana doesn't want to fail again), but she's not adding much in battle, doesn't have many contacts like Theron does, and isn't particularly good at being undercover. She is, however, a fantastic administrator. She can keep things organized, pay attention to details, and handle shifting priorities so that becomes her role in the Alliance. She has other people who help with mission control, but she takes point for nearly all of the missions the commander goes on.

By the time the Zakuul plot is wrapped up, Lana's position as administrator has become the norm and that's why she continues to be the one hosting meetings and sharing info with the Alliance. Not because she got the information herself, but because people know to share the information they get with so she can shift through it, figure out what is and isn't important and what can and cannot be delegated to someone other than the Outlander.

Theron, in comparison, is fantastic out in the field, but would struggle if he was constantly at the base just acting as mission control. However, I firmly believe that there are a lot more missions happening offscreen that the Outlander goes on and even more that other people in the Alliance are sent on and because Theron is so good at his job and the Outlander is good, they rarely go on the same missions, because why send your two best people to do a mission that one of them can handle?

So, in short, Theron is too competent at his job and that's why he's not frequently out on missions or the comms when the Outlander is out.

Edited May 24, 2023 by JenaSalton

[JakRoanin]

I keep hoping we have Theron doing more things with us but as my BH isn't my Outlander it doesn't bother me as much. Basically, during this stretch she's doing her Mando thing, and he's doing his pub thing, and they meet in the middle. But considering Theron is no kid, and he had an intense work-life forever, anyone getting involved with him would have to prioritize quality time over quantity. Life works that way sometimes. 

[cannibithobbal]

2 hours ago, JenaSalton said:

Theron, in comparison, is fantastic out in the field, but would struggle if he was constantly at the base just acting as mission control. However, I firmly believe that there are a lot more missions happening offscreen that the Outlander goes on and even more that other people in the Alliance are sent on and because Theron is so good at his job and the Outlander is good, they rarely go on the same missions, because why send your two best people to do a mission that one of them can handle?

So, in short, Theron is too competent at his job and that's why he's not frequently out on missions or the comms when the Outlander is out.

I definitely like the idea that Theron is constantly off doing his OWN missions!   (in addition to extra ones with the PC, of course)

tbh that completely fits with his constant running off to "meet contacts".  I have honestly always assumed that a lot if not all those "meeting contacts" missions are actually proper spywork and many are full on proper (and potentially dangerous) missions.  Because just meeting with someone in a bar he could send someone else to do (he IS in charge of Alliance Operations after all, he is a busy boy)

So what if he is so vague because he doesn't want the PC to worry about him going off and doing missions that he knows he can handle just fine but sound dangerous??  (plus, like, old spy habits, ya know, and the PC is always understanding of this)

That.....might 100% be a new headcanon, at least for my character's relationship with Theron it fits very well.

Edited May 23, 2023 by cannibithobbal

[cannibithobbal]

57 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

But considering Theron is no kid, and he had an intense work-life forever, anyone getting involved with him would have to prioritize quality time over quantity. Life works that way sometimes. 

completely agreed, he is a very busy boy, self-confessed workaholic, and those "work alone" habits never completely go away.  I think anyone who knows him at all knows this about him so anyone getting in a relationship with him is going to know this and be understanding of it.  (I know my characters are 😊)

Plus, the PC is busy as well!  whether Alliance Commander or otherwise, every PC has a very busy life going on. 

As much as I the player would love to have Theron there on every single mission (and there definitely a few places where I think he really 100% should be by all logic under the sun, like the aforementioned Ossus!!), characters/story-wise I do not expect Theron and my PC to have to be joined at the hip and never do things separately from each other, even if they might wish that was their lives sometimes.  They both busy, and sometimes busy with totally different things.  The Alliance does not run itself, after all!  😅

That said, DEVS THIS IS NOT ME SAYING KEEP PUTTING LESS THERON, I WANT MORE THERON PLS AND THX lol

Edited May 23, 2023 by cannibithobbal

[JenaSalton]

4 hours ago, cannibithobbal said:

So what if he is so vague because he doesn't want the PC to worry about him going off and doing missions that he knows he can handle just fine but sound dangerous??  (plus, like, old spy habits, ya know, and the PC is always understanding of this)

I just headcanon it as Theron just calls everything he does as "meeting with a contact". He could be going out for drinks and intel gathering with Jonas, off to attack a Star Fortress, planning a covert mission into the heart of the Zakuul Empire and its all just "meeting with a contact", because that's easier to say and both the JK (Outlander) and Agent (LI) were in the briefings where he took the assignment. 

It's his "should I say it like a spy?" way of talking when not in combat. Plus, since everyone  knows what he's doing, why bother repeating it where people who don't and shouldn't know could hear?

4 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

But considering Theron is no kid, and he had an intense work-life forever, anyone getting involved with him would have to prioritize quality time over quantity. Life works that way sometimes. 

 

3 hours ago, cannibithobbal said:

I do not expect Theron and my PC to have to be joined at the hip and never do things separately from each other, even if they might wish that was their lives sometimes.  They both busy, and sometimes busy with totally different things.  The Alliance does not run itself, after all!  😅

I completely agree with these sentiments though. And honestly, while I as a player would love more Theron, my Agent is also very much a loner, she's probably just as happy to have Theron off doing his own thing, while she does her thing. As long as they both come home safe and sound at the end of a mission and get the chance to spend some time together before heading off to the next disaster, she's good. (Honestly, its probably a good thing that there were so many disasters that needed to be dealt with when their relationship was starting, because they probably would've driven one another insane if they were living together for long periods of time without a crisis to talk about or use as an excuse to get away when needed.) 

[cannibithobbal]

1 hour ago, JenaSalton said:

I just headcanon it as Theron just calls everything he does as "meeting with a contact". He could be going out for drinks and intel gathering with Jonas, off to attack a Star Fortress, planning a covert mission into the heart of the Zakuul Empire and its all just "meeting with a contact", because that's easier to say and both the JK (Outlander) and Agent (LI) were in the briefings where he took the assignment. 

It's his "should I say it like a spy?" way of talking when not in combat. Plus, since everyone  knows what he's doing, why bother repeating it where people who don't and shouldn't know could hear?

 😂  Yes, I love this as well.  Getting so many good HC ideas!

I think for my characters I like a combination HC, like he started using it as a shorthand when he knows they know exactly what he's doing, but then after their Big Talk about how much they each worry about each other, Theron starts using it also with my JK as understood code for "I'm going on a solo mission, I'll spare you the details so you won't worry, just know I'm gonna be fine, I'll be back soon." 

edit: feel the need to say, even with this HC, saying you're meeting three contacts and not going to Ossus is still real flimsy, Theron, ffs, your bf needed you! 😔

Edited May 24, 2023 by cannibithobbal

[JakRoanin]

Yeah, but on Imp side that wouldn't make sense.

[Goreshaga]

12 hours ago, cannibithobbal said:

As much as I the player would love to have Theron there on every single mission (and there definitely a few places where I think he really 100% should be by all logic under the sun, like the aforementioned Ossus!!), characters/story-wise I do not expect Theron and my PC to have to be joined at the hip and never do things separately from each other, even if they might wish that was their lives sometimes.  They both busy, and sometimes busy with totally different things.  The Alliance does not run itself, after all!  😅

I'd not expect them to be constantly together, but i would have really liked if he had been more present when it made sense, like during the rescue mission, the assault on Arcann's flagship or Ossus for instance, even if he then leave to do things on his own (like creating a diversion during the rescue, slicing the ship's systems during the battle against Arcann or helping evacuate on Ossus), at the very least he would've felt a bit more present and involved in the story.

53 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Yeah, but on Imp side that wouldn't make sense.

Which is why Imp side would stay the same, him not going to Ossus on Imp side makes perfect sense.

Him not going there on Pub side does not though. All that was needed was him arriving on Ossus with us and then leaving with Gnost-Dural to help him with the evacuation. He'd have been barely more present than he actually is, wouldn't have done anything with us any more than he currently does, but at least it would make sense, considering Gnost-Dural is his friend and he actually says he'd like to come, instead of "yeah, i wanna come, but meeting some contacts is way more important than saving civilians, helping them evacuate and helping my ol pal GD".

[eabevella]

The real reason Theron doesn't show up during Onslaught is sadly because of the kill option. At that point of story, the pc has killed* the top 3 most powerful Force users in the whole galaxy: Arcann, Vaylin, Valkorion, 2 if we count Valkorion as a team effort. Of course an Imp side toon can take Theron wherever they want. It's not like anyone dare to do anything about it.

I think it would be beautiful if the imp side toons can take Theron along and Force Choke/Force Lightning/Punch the idiot who dares to say a bad word about *their* man.

My Darth Nox would like to remind anyone who dares to look at Theron the wrong way what happened to the last fool who dared to challenge him (Not my toon. Can't believe I didn't record it...)

*Edit: killed or defeated.

Edited May 24, 2023 by eabevella

[cannibithobbal]

3 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Yeah, but on Imp side that wouldn't make sense.

that is fair, I will probably make different HCs for imp side anyway.   my characters are all totally separate for me, so I can get away with that.

[cannibithobbal]

3 hours ago, Goreshaga said:

Which is why Imp side would stay the same, him not going to Ossus on Imp side makes perfect sense.

Him not going there on Pub side does not though. All that was needed was him arriving on Ossus with us and then leaving with Gnost-Dural to help him with the evacuation. He'd have been barely more present than he actually is, wouldn't have done anything with us any more than he currently does, but at least it would make sense, considering Gnost-Dural is his friend and he actually says he'd like to come, instead of "yeah, i wanna come, but meeting some contacts is way more important than saving civilians, helping them evacuate and helping my ol pal GD".

Yes, this precisely.  Could not have said it better!

Will only add too that if you are romancing him, his LI literally tells him they want him to come to not be apart from him again since it is so soon after Nathema.  Like, C'MON THERON!!!  Normally they don't ever push and ask him specifically to come and have him refuse, especially when Theron even says he wants to come but can't.  Theron is super lucky his LIs are so patient and understanding of his spy habits after that one 🥺

[cannibithobbal]

3 hours ago, eabevella said:

The real reason Theron doesn't show up during Onslaught is sadly because of the kill option. At that point of story, the pc has killed* the top 3 most powerful Force users in the whole galaxy: Arcann, Vaylin, Valkorion, 2 if we count Valkorion as a team effort. Of course an Imp side toon can take Theron wherever they want. It's not like anyone dare to do anything about it.

I think it would be beautiful if the imp side toons can take Theron along and Force Choke/Force Lightning/Punch the idiot who dares to say a bad word about *their* man.

My Darth Nox would like to remind anyone who dares to look at Theron the wrong way what happened to the last fool who dared to challenge him (Not my toon. Can't believe I didn't record it...)

*Edit: killed or defeated.

omg, that video!  a) glorious!  I agree, DS sith lovers of Theron (and some LS ones too) should/would 100% do that to anyone who looks at him wrong 😅  b) that is so completely crazy different to how pub side characters get recruited to rejoin the republic, which doesn't surprise me obviously but also dayum 🤣  I stopped after a lil bit to avoid tooo many spoilers, but I saw enough to know I'm actually really sad Acina now that is gonna be dead on saboteur playthrough because I can't make Theron sad 🥲

and yeah, 100% the reason Theron is actually gone so much starting with Ossus is because of the kill option, the extreme stupidity of which I can never emphasize hard enough or enough times.  😠  coming up with HCs to justify it helps soften the blow for most of it though.

Ossus is just the one where, like, no HC can really possibly justify that one since it makes so little sense.  all the other missions after I can fully justify with HCs, and as much as I might want him there I can understand him not being, but Ossus is different.  if they couldn't have him as the "required companion" for any mission because of the dumb kill option, he really could/should have just gone to Ossus and just stayed at Gnost-dural's base while we ran around with Tau.  and any evil people who killed him off just go alone as it exists now.   Like, seriously devs, WHY NOT???????  how much extra work would that really have been?????????????

*ahem*  yes, anyway.

 

(p.s. sorry for the multiposts, quoting more than one post at once was not working right!)

 

edit: ok so, like, I went and said there was no HC I could possibly come up with to justify Theron not going to Ossus, and that's 100% true, but my brain was like "HC to fix Ossus? challenge accepted!"  and what I came up with:

PC enters the shuttle to fly to Ossus.  Theron is already there, waiting.  He's like "I'm an idiot.  Those contacts can wait.  You want me with you, I'm here." and then he does actually go.  When they arrive he says to go on ahead because he's got a few things to do but he'll be along shortly, and he isn't really supposed to be there anyway so he's gonna keep a low profile.  And then for the rest of Ossus he just keeps being off doing things for Gnost-dural or whatever or in the background and he's actually there but we don't see him, but he's there because it makes so much more sense that he be there.

*ahem again* yes, that's my new HC, it has to be because it makes me feel better lol  I don't remember if there's any other dialogue afterward that would break this HC completely but I don't care, my brain needs him to have gone.  😅

Edited May 24, 2023 by cannibithobbal

[eabevella]

2 hours ago, cannibithobbal said:

omg, that video!  a) glorious!  I agree, DS sith lovers of Theron (and some LS ones too) should/would 100% do that to anyone who looks at him wrong 😅  b) that is so completely crazy different to how pub side characters get recruited to rejoin the republic, which doesn't surprise me obviously but also dayum 🤣  I stopped after a lil bit to avoid tooo many spoilers, but I saw enough to know I'm actually really sad Acina now that is gonna be dead on saboteur playthrough because I can't make Theron sad 🥲

and yeah, 100% the reason Theron is actually gone so much starting with Ossus is because of the kill option, the extreme stupidity of which I can never emphasize hard enough or enough times.  😠  coming up with HCs to justify it helps soften the blow for most of it though.

Ossus is just the one where, like, no HC can really possibly justify that one since it makes so little sense.  all the other missions after I can fully justify with HCs, and as much as I might want him there I can understand him not being, but Ossus is different.  if they couldn't have him as the "required companion" for any mission because of the dumb kill option, he really could/should have just gone to Ossus and just stayed at Gnost-dural's base while we ran around with Tau.  and any evil people who killed him off just go alone as it exists now.   Like, seriously devs, WHY NOT???????  how much extra work would that really have been?????????????

*ahem*  yes, anyway.

 

(p.s. sorry for the multiposts, quoting more than one post at once was not working right!)

 

edit: ok so, like, I went and said there was no HC I could possibly come up with to justify Theron not going to Ossus, and that's 100% true, but my brain was like "HC to fix Ossus? challenge accepted!"  and what I came up with:

PC enters the shuttle to fly to Ossus.  Theron is already there, waiting.  He's like "I'm an idiot.  Those contacts can wait.  You want me with you, I'm here." and then he does actually go.  When they arrive he says to go on ahead because he's got a few things to do but he'll be along shortly, and he isn't really supposed to be there anyway so he's gonna keep a low profile.  And then for the rest of Ossus he just keeps being off doing things for Gnost-dural or whatever or in the background and he's actually there but we don't see him, but he's there because it makes so much more sense that he be there.

*ahem again* yes, that's my new HC, it has to be because it makes me feel better lol  I don't remember if there's any other dialogue afterward that would break this HC completely but I don't care, my brain needs him to have gone.  😅

Imo, the writers should write the script with companions as default and without companions as the alt version. If you keep someone alive, you get to see more about them and get some extra background stories if it's something related to them (like Theron and Gnost Dural's past missions together). If not, well, you own up your own decision. Either roll a new toon and see or just accept the consequence of a choice.

The recruitment for non-Sith is much subtle but an Agent or BH can still totally go "see? this is the gun/fist/knife that shoot/punch/stab Arcann/Vaylin/Valkorion, you wanna try it too?" if any stupid Sith tries to threaten Theron XD

My JK who doesn't romance Theron didn't even get a word from him before she went to Ossus which makes the "go see contact" dialogue in the romance option (I assume?) make even less sense. Just let him go to Ossus and chat with Gnost Dural for a bit. He can totally help them retreating/wiping all the farming data in the base. Or even better, give us a sub-quest from Theron to plant some false farming data for the Imps to "dig out". So many things he can do even not as an "active" companion *shrug*

Edited May 24, 2023 by eabevella
typo

[cannibithobbal]

39 minutes ago, eabevella said:

Imo, the writers should write the script with companions as default and without companions as the alt version. If you keep someone alive, you get to see more about them and get some extra background stories if it's something related to them (like Theron and Gnost Dural's past missions together). If not, well, you own up your own decision. Either roll a new toon and see or just accept the consequence of a choice.

toootally agreed.  people who killed off people should be the ones "missing out" on content, not the other way around.  I completely accept that I'm missing out on Torian stuff on Ruhnuk because I couldn't/can't/will never kill Vette, I live with that choice.  If people kill off Theron they should just have to accept that they're missing stuff too.  Instead of having him just never go anywhere for anyone, let him go for people who saved him and people killed him just go in alone, or his role is filled by someone else.  or we just get extra missions that they don't get. 

39 minutes ago, eabevella said:

My JK who doesn't romance Theron didn't even get a word from him before she went to Ossus which makes the "go see contact" dialogue in the romance option (I assume?). Just let him go to Ossus and chat with Gnost Dural for a bit. He can totally help them retreating/wiping all the farming data in the base. Or even better, give us a sub-quest from Theron to plant some false farming data for the Imps to "dig out". So many things he can do even not as an "active" companion *shrug*

omg I didn't realize non-romanced characters don't even talk to him at all!  I figured they had a convo but it was just different.

Well that almost makes it even worse, literally just his LIs (who rarely if ever ask him to go out of his way for anything!!) begging him to go just on this one lil mission because it's too soon after he was gone for so long and he nearly died and they just need to spend time with him rn, and he's like "yeah, nope, sorry, I already promised some nameless randos they could have a chat with me."  FFS THERON, ilu but you really are still bad at relationships sometimes 😓  I mean he says "you don't need me to handle this" and he's not wrong, my Jedi are 100% fully capable of handling the mission, but needing him and wanting him are two different things!!!

Yeah, so, my HC, I definitely need it, him not going makes me upset, but him realizing he was being too spy boy and correcting his mistake and going, so much better 😊  I realized too if any dialogue does contradict Theron going and just being there in the background off screen, easy enough to just add the HC that he went spy boy on them and was like "if anyone asks I was never here" a la the havoc squad chapter of KotFE, like he wasn't sure if the republic military who sent the PC to Ossus would appreciate a spy being there or something so he played it coy 😅

Edited May 24, 2023 by cannibithobbal

[eabevella]

11 minutes ago, cannibithobbal said:

toootally agreed.  people who killed off people should be the ones "missing out" on content, not the other way around.  I completely accept that I'm missing out on Torian stuff on Ruhnuk because I couldn't/can't/will never kill Vette, I live with that choice.  If people kill off Theron they should just have to accept that they're missing stuff too.  Instead of having him just never go anywhere for anyone, let him go for people who saved him and people killed him just go in alone, or his role is filled by someone else.  or we just get extra missions that they don't get. 

omg I didn't realize non-romanced characters don't even talk to him at all!  I figured they had a convo but it was just different.

Well that almost makes it even worse, his LIs (who rarely if ever ask him to go out of his way for anything!!) begging him to go just on this one lil mission because it's too soon after he was gone for so long and he nearly died and they just need to spend time with him rn, and he's like "yeah, nope, sorry, I already promised some nameless randos they could have a chat with me."  FFS THERON, ilu but you really are still bad at relationships sometimes 😓  I mean he says "you don't need me to handle this" and he's not wrong, my Jedi are 100% fully capable of handling the mission, but needing him and wanting him are two different things!!!

Yeah, so, my HC, I definitely need it, him not going makes me upset, but him realizing he was being too spy boy and correcting his mistake and going, so much better 😊  I realized too if any dialogue does contradict Theron going and just being there in the background off screen, easy enough to just add the HC that he went spy boy on them and was like "if anyone asks I was never here" a la the havoc squad chapter of KotFE, like he wasn't sure if the republic military who sent the PC to Ossus would appreciate a spy being there or something so he played it coy 😅

Huh, I actually did miss 1 line but that kind of made the scene worse.

He had 1 line "wish I could go along. Gnost-Dural is an old friend of mine, it'd be good to see him again." after the holo when Lana said she'd prepare a small team. The PC simply said nothing and turned right back to Lana to wrap up the dialogue. I assume it's because it skips the whole romance specific dialogue? There's nothing about meeting a contact whatsoever. It's safe to say that line alone can be interpreted as Theron wanting to tag along, he's just asking the commander's approval. But the commander just... ignored him?

(Time stamped at the line) https://youtu.be/oyPlkv6dzL4?t=223

Why not write a simple line of "sure, Theron, come along" as the default dialogue for both romanced and non-romanced PC and LET HIM GO TO OSSUS even just standing in the background ="=

[cannibithobbal]

23 minutes ago, eabevella said:

Huh, I actually did miss 1 line but that kind of made the scene worse.

He had 1 line "wish I could go along. Gnost-Dural is an old friend of mine, it'd be good to see him again." after the holo when Lana said she'd prepare a small team. The PC simply said nothing and turned right back to Lana to wrap up the dialogue. I assume it's because it skips the whole romance specific dialogue? There's nothing about meeting a contact whatsoever. It's safe to say that line alone can be interpreted as Theron wanting to tag along, he's just asking the commander's approval. But the commander just... ignored him?

(Time stamped at the line) https://youtu.be/oyPlkv6dzL4?t=223

Why not write a simple line of "sure, Theron, come along" as the default dialogue for both romanced and non-romanced PC and LET HIM GO TO OSSUS even just standing in the background ="=

omg that does make it even more horrible that it's not him going by default!!!  😓

like, in the non-romantic version Theron's wishes are being ignored by the Commander (or at least he says he wishes he could go but no reason at all is given as to why he can't) and in romantic version the LI's wishes are being rejected by Theron.  Neither one makes any sense or works without HCing that he does actually go!!!!

"sure Theron, come along" should have been the non-romantic version and romantic version should have been Theron responding to the LI saying they don't wanna be apart from him with "I don't want to be apart either, my other work can wait, let's go" then he hangs out in the background at the base and has probably 3 lines the whole time but he's there and that's what matters.

The reason Ossus is so egregious is just how easy and low effort it would have been to plug him in the background (no different from any other time during Onslaught) and instead they opted to make him say he'd like to go then not go and make the laziest excuse ever to not go with a love interest.  Every other time in the entire game that Theron isn't there, I get it or I can find it justifiable or make it justifiable with HCs or I even think it makes sense in the story even if I want him there, but they went out of their way in dialogue to make it clear they knew he should have gone to Ossus and that it made no sense for him not to but that they didn't want to make the super low effort to plug him in the back of scenes and give him a few lines that could be removed if people killed him.  😓

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by cannibithobbal

[eabevella]

24 minutes ago, cannibithobbal said:

omg that does make it even more horrible that it's not him going by default!!!  😓

like, in the non-romantic version Theron's wishes are being ignored by the Commander (or at least he says he wishes he could go but no reason at all is given as to why he can't) and in romantic version the LI's wishes are being rejected by Theron.  Neither one makes any sense or works without HCing that he does actually go!!!!

"sure Theron, come along" should have been the non-romantic version and romantic version should have been Theron responding to the LI saying they don't wanna be apart from him with "I don't want to be apart either, my other work can wait, let's go" then he hangs out in the background at the base and has probably 3 lines the whole time but he's there and that's what matters.

The reason Ossus is so egregious is just how easy and low effort it would have been to plug him in the background (no different from any other time during Onslaught) and instead they opted to make him say he'd like to go then not go and make the laziest excuse ever to not go with a love interest.  Every other time in the entire game that Theron isn't there, I get it or I can find it justifiable or make it justifiable with HCs or I even think it makes sense in the story even if I want him there, but they went out of their way in dialogue to make it clear they knew he should have gone to Ossus and that it made no sense for him not to but that they didn't want to make the super low effort to plug him in the back of scenes and give him a few lines that could be removed if people killed him.  😓

 

I feel really bad for you because the clear reject is in the romance version.

Totally agreed that the romance version should be something like "I don't want to be apart, my work can wait."

I say "canon" can go sit on a lightsaber and just HC your JK convinced Theron one more time off screen and he said "Guess I'll go."

https://i.imgur.com/lk5t4ny.png

[cannibithobbal]

1 hour ago, eabevella said:

I feel really bad for you because the clear reject is in the romance version.

Totally agreed that the romance version should be something like "I don't want to be apart, my work can wait."

I say "canon" can go sit on a lightsaber and just HC your JK convinced Theron one more time off screen and he said "Guess ll go."

The worst part about the reject from Theron too is that they just got engaged.  And like, the proposal scene really felt like Theron committing to stop walking away and that even if they have their own separate things to do he would always be there if he was really needed.... and then literally next mission "I don't want to be apart" "nope can't come" 😓

agreed, "canon" can absolutely commit lightsaber seppuku on this one!  I actually prefer though that my JK doesn't even need to convince Theron to go (because Theron should not need any more convincing damnit!), but instead Theron walks away and thinks about it for five minutes and realizes he royally f***ed up and immediately reaches out to all his "contacts" to reschedule or assigns someone else to go meet them, then surprises JK by showing up in the shuttle and makes his day/week/year.  😊

edit: to clarify, this would not just be JK lol I would definitely HC that Theron does this for all my republic characters.  I think it matters most for JK though because my JK needs it the most and given their specific relationship dynamic and history (romanced from literally day 1!) it's more upsetting of a rejection.  I think my JC would be less upset by Theron saying he can't go as she is a bit more independent herself (she would still be very excited he changed his mind, of course).  Which is not to say my JK is super needy, but, sometimes maybe he is a little! (and Ossus is one of those times, ffs Theron) 😅

1 hour ago, eabevella said:

https://i.imgur.com/lk5t4ny.png

🤣🤣 literally me.

Edited May 24, 2023 by cannibithobbal
bloody typos + more thoughts lol