So like what's our pay rate

[Malphicious]

Seems so much time and energy has been wasted on fixing things no one really cares about. Taking directions totally against your base wishes. So whats the plan? Run off as many as you can so you can blame subscription drops and try to keep some willing to give other products you put out a try? That'll happen regardless. No need to try so hard. I honestly don't believe this. I think you guys are really trying but tend to overthink and overshoot what it is people like about this game. In one post you say too much CPX gain in one area will cause people to burn out. That's happening because of the CPX. You can stand on fleet for hours and see the same tired people doing the same thing or the same old WZ or OP LFG. These are mainly those who have been around since day one. Not many are having fun doing any of it. Population overall is dropping faster than I've ever seen and those still here are just those that are loyal and not ready to quit just yet. The new Strongholds rarely have more than 5 people in them at any hour on my server at least. Not many care about those. CPX is just a grind fest of the same old mess that forces you to tire yourself out on it rather than immersion in the universe you came to play in. The planets are barren of things to do beyond daily heroics, at level questing or mat farming. There's really no reason to just go to them and play around. Other MMO's you like going back to areas. To attack or defend hubs, to just hang out with friends or for events. Yes you can go do some of that but you kinda hate to because we've all had to continually level 20+ toons on them out of boredom over the years while you guys fix things no one would care if you just got rid of altogether. I loved the game. Still love the idea of it and do have respect for your creativity. I may be a little touched cause I'll be here until the last server goes down for the last time. That said, why not spend at least a little time on things that have been broken for so long and improving existing aspects of the game. Bring back the immersion and stop thinking getting us tired is the same as making it fun. All work and no play makes me feel the fool for pumping money into this monthly. If this trend is to continue maybe upping the sub CC reward to 2100 would be better. We honestly should get paid to keep playing if we have to work this hard to keep playing until you figure out what's next. Edited September 17, 2017 by Malphicious

[Arlanon]

Seems so much time and energy has been wasted on fixing things no one really cares about. Taking directions totally against your base wishes. So whats the plan? Run off as many as you can so you can blame subscription drops and try to keep some willing to give other products you put out a try? That'll happen regardless. No need to try so hard.

 

I honestly don't believe this. I think you guys are really trying but tend to overthink and overshoot what it is people like about this game. In one post you say too much cpx gain in one area will cause people to burn out. That's happening because of the cpx. You can stand on fleet for hours and see the same tired people doing the same thing or the same old wz or op lfg. These are mainly those who have been around since day one. Not many are having fun doing any of it.

 

Population overall is dropping faster than i've ever seen and those still here are just those that are loyal and not ready to quit just yet. The new strongholds rarely have more than 5 people in them at any hour on my server at least. Not many care about those. Cpx is just a grind fest of the same old mess that forces you to tire yourself out on it rather than immersion in the universe you came to play in. The planets are barren of things to do beyond daily heroics, at level questing or mat farming. There's really no reason to just go to them and play around.

 

Other mmo's you like going back to areas. To attack or defend hubs, to just hang out with friends or for events. Yes you can go do some of that but you kinda hate to because we've all had to continually level 20+ toons on them out of boredom over the years while you guys fix things no one would care if you just got rid of altogether.

 

I loved the game. Still love the idea of it and do have respect for your creativity. I may be a little touched cause i'll be here until the last server goes down for the last time. That said, why not spend at least a little time on things that have been broken for so long and improving existing aspects of the game. Bring back the immersion and stop thinking getting us tired is the same as making it fun. All work and no play makes me feel the fool for pumping money into this monthly. If this trend is to continue maybe upping the sub cc reward to 2100 would be better.

 

We honestly should get paid to keep playing if we have to work this hard to keep playing until you figure out what's next.

 

ftfy......

Edited September 17, 2017 by Arlanon

[jedip_enguin]

U wot m8?

[greenMne]

U wot m8?

 

He means he put it in paragraphs.

Edited September 17, 2017 by greenMne

[GrimTheGlutt]

Seems so much time and energy has been wasted on fixing things no one really cares about. Taking directions totally against your base wishes. So whats the plan? Run off as many as you can so you can blame subscription drops and try to keep some willing to give other products you put out a try? That'll happen regardless. No need to try so hard.

 

I honestly don't believe this. I think you guys are really trying but tend to overthink and overshoot what it is people like about this game. In one post you say too much CPX gain in one area will cause people to burn out. That's happening because of the CPX. You can stand on fleet for hours and see the same tired people doing the same thing or the same old WZ or OP LFG. These are mainly those who have been around since day one. Not many are having fun doing any of it. Population overall is dropping faster than I've ever seen and those still here are just those that are loyal and not ready to quit just yet.

 

The new Strongholds rarely have more than 5 people in them at any hour on my server at least. Not many care about those. CPX is just a grind fest of the same old mess that forces you to tire yourself out on it rather than immersion in the universe you came to play in.

 

The planets are barren of things to do beyond daily heroics, at level questing or mat farming. There's really no reason to just go to them and play around. Other MMO's you like going back to areas. To attack or defend hubs, to just hang out with friends or for events. Yes you can go do some of that but you kinda hate to because we've all had to continually level 20+ toons on them out of boredom over the years while you guys fix things no one would care if you just got rid of altogether.

 

I loved the game. Still love the idea of it and do have respect for your creativity. I may be a little touched cause I'll be here until the last server goes down for the last time.

 

That said, why not spend at least a little time on things that have been broken for so long and improving existing aspects of the game. Bring back the immersion and stop thinking getting us tired is the same as making it fun. All work and no play makes me feel the fool for pumping money into this monthly.

 

If this trend is to continue maybe upping the sub CC reward to 2100 would be better. We honestly should get paid to keep playing if we have to work this hard to keep playing until you figure out what's next.

 

There fixed.

[jedip_enguin]

He means he put it in paragraphs.

 

I meant OP not the guy quoting him.

[orangenee]

In addition to the line break fix I'll cover the tl;dr version.

 

It is as follows: DOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!!

[SolarSaenz]

Seems so much time and energy has been wasted on fixing things no one really cares about. Taking directions totally against your base wishes. So whats the plan? Run off as many as you can so you can blame subscription drops and try to keep some willing to give other products you put out a try? That'll happen regardless. No need to try so hard. I honestly don't believe this. I think you guys are really trying but tend to overthink and overshoot what it is people like about this game. In one post you say too much CPX gain in one area will cause people to burn out. That's happening because of the CPX. You can stand on fleet for hours and see the same tired people doing the same thing or the same old WZ or OP LFG. These are mainly those who have been around since day one. Not many are having fun doing any of it. Population overall is dropping faster than I've ever seen and those still here are just those that are loyal and not ready to quit just yet. The new Strongholds rarely have more than 5 people in them at any hour on my server at least. Not many care about those. CPX is just a grind fest of the same old mess that forces you to tire yourself out on it rather than immersion in the universe you came to play in. The planets are barren of things to do beyond daily heroics, at level questing or mat farming. There's really no reason to just go to them and play around. Other MMO's you like going back to areas. To attack or defend hubs, to just hang out with friends or for events. Yes you can go do some of that but you kinda hate to because we've all had to continually level 20+ toons on them out of boredom over the years while you guys fix things no one would care if you just got rid of altogether. I loved the game. Still love the idea of it and do have respect for your creativity. I may be a little touched cause I'll be here until the last server goes down for the last time. That said, why not spend at least a little time on things that have been broken for so long and improving existing aspects of the game. Bring back the immersion and stop thinking getting us tired is the same as making it fun. All work and no play makes me feel the fool for pumping money into this monthly. If this trend is to continue maybe upping the sub CC reward to 2100 would be better. We honestly should get paid to keep playing if we have to work this hard to keep playing until you figure out what's next.

 

I and other players (former and current) understand where you are coming from.

 

First though, I do want to say that there is a lot to like about this game. I'm not blind to its problems, but the game does shine in some respects.

I think there is one main point that I can see, and it has some corollaries, if you will.

 

This is the main problem.

Bioware/EA doesn't know how to run a successful MMO. They thought that if they emulated World of Warcraft (WoW) and bring a big focus on story, they would have a WoW killer because they would be doing everything WoW did, have 8 great stories to tell, AND have the franchise juggernaut power of Star Wars behind the game. On the surface if you don't probe too hard and ask for details, it sounds like a winning strategy. And, while the game did have a strong start, because BW/EA didn't know how to run/manage a successful MMO, things just went downhill from launch.

 

A corollary to this point is that BW/Ea doesn't know and I'll go so far as to say they maybe never did know, what their player base wants.

 

Somehow, they got it into their heads that we (the players) were going to love CXP/GC/RNG even after the player base told them both in the forums and during the live streams that CXP/GC/RNG was a bad idea, they still implemented it. You can argue that by the time of the live streams talking about how CXP/GC/RNG was going to be released, it was too late to change course. But, again, if BW/EA knew their player base, CXP/GC/RNG would never have been a thought, especially since in the early days of 1.x, they tried a similar thing with respect to PVP gearing (anyone remember champion bags) back when we still had the stat expertise. And, they abandoned that in favor of a commendations way of gearing.

I think BW/EA thought before 5.0's release, that CXP/GC/RNG would actually help in retaining subscriptions. In the immortal words of Robert Downey Jr's Iron Man/Tony Stark "Not a great plan".

 

Another example to this corollary is the KOTFE story. It's true that players before KOTFE's release wanted story. And, BW "listened" except apparently they have selective hearing. The players wanted more CLASS stories, not a "you are Generic Hero of the Galaxy" type of story that KOTFE and KOTET were . We wanted to know what happened to the imperial agent after

Imperial Intelligence was disbanded.

We wanted to know what was the role and continued adventures of the Emperor's Wrath after

the Knight seemingly killed the Emperor or at least the Emperor's most recent Voice.

How might the Inquisitor

govern the Empire and interact with the Dark Council after securing a seat on the Dark Council?

And similar things for the rest of the classes.

You can argue that by 3.x, BW/EA didn't have the resources to do anymore class stories, which was probably true to an extent. But, I'll say they could have taken a less story intensive approach to the future, just doing like what they did in Shadow of Revan's initial release, just small class stories, enough to make the player smile and do something else with respect to end game activities. They had all the voice actors available and new ones (voices for Senya, Arcann, Valkorion, etc), so I think with a little creativity, they could have done something for class stories. But, I digress.

 

Other examples of BW/EA not knowing what their players want exist as well.

 

Another corollary is that BW/EA doesn't really listen to their player base, and historically seem to have this "we know what you (the players) want better than you (the players) do" attitude. The most recent example of this is CXP/GC/RNG. I'll even list the Umbara SH as one of these things. Before I get crucified (Crucifying others being the number one pastime of those on the forums ), I'm not saying the Umbara SH is bad. But, I am saying almost no one was asking for a SH on Umbara. Since player housing (strongholds) were released, there has been no shortage of player suggestions on where a new SH should be implemented. But, somehow, BW got it into their heads that Umbara just had to be the next location for a stronghold. Forget serene a location like Tython or a tropical place like Rishi. There were plenty of suggestions to choose from, but for whatever reason, our suggestions were ignored.

Note: Manaan was a player suggestion, and it was implemented.

A more historical example goes back to the game's release. Before release, people told BW that they didn't have enough end game content to keep players busy. BW didn't really do anything about this and went ahead with release. The rest is history.

Perhaps it's best to state that BW/EA sometimes, does partially listen, but not most of the time. It seems that in recent times (since Keith started being producer) that they are more inclined to listen. Examples: all the things that have been done to take the sting out of CPX/RNG/GC.

 

The only way to change the game drastically for the better would be to pull an FF14 ARR (Final Fantasy XIV a Realm Reborn). The extremely short version is that the initial release of FF14 was bad. So, SquareEnix, redesigned the game with alot of TLC, re-released the game, and it has been like the 2nd most popular MMO behind WoW.

However, there is at least one big difference in situations (FF14 and SWTOR). The Final Fantasy franchise is SquareEnix's baby. It would be a stain on their flagship franchise and the company if they let a Final Fantasy MMO die badly. Star Wars isn't the pride and joy of BW/EA though they have developed some games for the SW franchise, and they don't own SW.

To BW/EA, SWTOR is just another source of revenue. If that source stops producing sufficient profits, they will pull the plug.

I think that given enough time (we're talking many years) if Kieth were to continue serving as producer, the game would very slowly start to turn around. However, SWTOR probably doesn't have those years needed. And, unless more resources are allocated to SWTOR, the game will keep limping along until the profits just aren't there for EA/BW.

I'm not saying Kieth is the savior of SWTOR, that he can do no wrong, or anything like that. But, he does play the game. And, I think he really does want to improve the game. However, he isn't the absolute authority over the game. As others have said, he has bosses, and he can only work with the resources he has, which it seems aren't much these days.

 

That is what I can see from my perspective. I'm sure other players can mention things they see.

Edited September 17, 2017 by SolarSaenz

[Malphicious]

I and other players (former and current) understand where you are coming from.

 

First though, I do want to say that there is a lot to like about this game. I'm not blind to its problems, but the game does shine in some respects.

I think there is one main point that I can see, and it has some corollaries, if you will.

 

This is the main problem.

Bioware/EA doesn't know how to run a successful MMO. They thought that if they emulated World of Warcraft (WoW) and bring a big focus on story, they would have a WoW killer because they would be doing everything WoW did, have 8 great stories to tell, AND have the franchise juggernaut power of Star Wars behind the game. On the surface if you don't probe too hard and ask for details, it sounds like a winning strategy. And, while the game did have a strong start, because BW/EA didn't know how to run/manage a successful MMO, things just went downhill from launch.

 

A corollary to this point is that BW/Ea doesn't know and I'll go so far as to say they maybe never did know, what their player base wants.

 

Somehow, they got it into their heads that we (the players) were going to love CXP/GC/RNG even after the player base told them both in the forums and during the live streams that CXP/GC/RNG was a bad idea, they still implemented it. You can argue that by the time of the live streams talking about how CXP/GC/RNG was going to be released, it was too late to change course. But, again, if BW/EA knew their player base, CXP/GC/RNG would never have been a thought, especially since in the early days of 1.x, they tried a similar thing with respect to PVP gearing (anyone remember champion bags) back when we still had the stat expertise. And, they abandoned that in favor of a commendations way of gearing.

I think BW/EA thought before 5.0's release, that CXP/GC/RNG would actually help in retaining subscriptions. In the immortal words of Robert Downey Jr's Iron Man/Tony Stark "Not a great plan".

 

Another example to this corollary is the KOTFE story. It's true that players before KOTFE's release wanted story. And, BW "listened" except apparently they have selective hearing. The players wanted more CLASS stories, not a "you are Generic Hero of the Galaxy" type of story that KOTFE and KOTET were . We wanted to know what happened to the imperial agent after

Imperial Intelligence was disbanded.

We wanted to know what was the role and continued adventures of the Emperor's Wrath after

the Knight seemingly killed the Emperor or at least the Emperor's most recent Voice.

How might the Inquisitor

govern the Empire and interact with the Dark Council after securing a seat on the Dark Council?

And similar things for the rest of the classes.

You can argue that by 3.x, BW/EA didn't have the resources to do anymore class stories, which was probably true to an extent. But, I'll say they could have taken a less story intensive approach to the future, just doing like what they did in Shadow of Revan's initial release, just small class stories, enough to make the player smile and do something else with respect to end game activities. They had all the voice actors available and new ones (voices for Senya, Arcann, Valkorion, etc), so I think with a little creativity, they could have done something for class stories. But, I digress.

 

Other examples of BW/EA not knowing what their players want exist as well.

 

Another corollary is that BW/EA doesn't really listen to their player base, and historically seem to have this "we know what you (the players) want better than you (the players) do" attitude. The most recent example of this is CXP/GC/RNG. I'll even list the Umbara SH as one of these things. Before I get crucified (Crucifying others being the number one pastime of those on the forums ), I'm not saying the Umbara SH is bad. But, I am saying almost no one was asking for a SH on Umbara. Since player housing (strongholds) were released, there has been no shortage of player suggestions on where a new SH should be implemented. But, somehow, BW got it into their heads that Umbara just had to be the next location for a stronghold. Forget serene a location like Tython or a tropical place like Rishi. There were plenty of suggestions to choose from, but for whatever reason, our suggestions were ignored.

Note: Manaan was a player suggestion, and it was implemented.

A more historical example goes back to the game's release. Before release, people told BW that they didn't have enough end game content to keep players busy. BW didn't really do anything about this and went ahead with release. The rest is history.

Perhaps it's best to state that BW/EA sometimes, does partially listen, but not most of the time. It seems that in recent times (since Keith started being producer) that they are more inclined to listen. Examples: all the things that have been done to take the sting out of CPX/RNG/GC.

 

The only way to change the game drastically for the better would be to pull an FF14 ARR (Final Fantasy XIV a Realm Reborn). The extremely short version is that the initial release of FF14 was bad. So, SquareEnix, redesigned the game with alot of TLC, re-released the game, and it has been like the 2nd most popular MMO behind WoW.

However, there is at least one big difference in situations (FF14 and SWTOR). The Final Fantasy franchise is SquareEnix's baby. It would be a stain on their flagship franchise and the company if they let a Final Fantasy MMO die badly. Star Wars isn't the pride and joy of BW/EA though they have developed some games for the SW franchise, and they don't own SW.

To BW/EA, SWTOR is just another source of revenue. If that source stops producing sufficient profits, they will pull the plug.

I think that given enough time (we're talking many years) if Kieth were to continue serving as producer, the game would very slowly start to turn around. However, SWTOR probably doesn't have those years needed. And, unless more resources are allocated to SWTOR, the game will keep limping along until the profits just aren't there for EA/BW.

I'm not saying Kieth is the savior of SWTOR, that he can do no wrong, or anything like that. But, he does play the game. And, I think he really does want to improve the game. However, he isn't the absolute authority over the game. As others have said, he has bosses, and he can only work with the resources he has, which it seems aren't much these days.

 

That is what I can see from my perspective. I'm sure other players can mention things they see.

 

lol thanks for the fix guys. Was only supposed to be a few lines but I got carried away with it. I totally agree with what you are saying Solar. I'm just frustrated doing the same old same day in and day out. Probably should not have been so quick to do all datacrons and exploration pre4.0. I just hope they do something to compensate for the down times besides grind fest.

[Aderes]

Dunno when you started playing but ... they don't add new end-game, they regurgitate old content for end game levels and put in as many time-trap quests that they can.

[olagatonjedi]

Seems so much time and energy has been wasted on fixing things no one really cares about. Taking directions totally against your base wishes. So whats the plan? Run off as many as you can so you can blame subscription drops and try to keep some willing to give other products you put out a try? That'll happen regardless. No need to try so hard. I honestly don't believe this. I think you guys are really trying but tend to overthink and overshoot what it is people like about this game. In one post you say too much CPX gain in one area will cause people to burn out. That's happening because of the CPX. You can stand on fleet for hours and see the same tired people doing the same thing or the same old WZ or OP LFG. These are mainly those who have been around since day one. Not many are having fun doing any of it. Population overall is dropping faster than I've ever seen and those still here are just those that are loyal and not ready to quit just yet. The new Strongholds rarely have more than 5 people in them at any hour on my server at least. Not many care about those. CPX is just a grind fest of the same old mess that forces you to tire yourself out on it rather than immersion in the universe you came to play in. The planets are barren of things to do beyond daily heroics, at level questing or mat farming. There's really no reason to just go to them and play around. Other MMO's you like going back to areas. To attack or defend hubs, to just hang out with friends or for events. Yes you can go do some of that but you kinda hate to because we've all had to continually level 20+ toons on them out of boredom over the years while you guys fix things no one would care if you just got rid of altogether. I loved the game. Still love the idea of it and do have respect for your creativity. I may be a little touched cause I'll be here until the last server goes down for the last time. That said, why not spend at least a little time on things that have been broken for so long and improving existing aspects of the game. Bring back the immersion and stop thinking getting us tired is the same as making it fun. All work and no play makes me feel the fool for pumping money into this monthly. If this trend is to continue maybe upping the sub CC reward to 2100 would be better. We honestly should get paid to keep playing if we have to work this hard to keep playing until you figure out what's next.

It sounds as though an MMORPG is not the right genre for you.

 

And you certainly dont speak for everyone.

Edited September 17, 2017 by olagatonjedi

[YlliyaXor]

I and other players (former and current) understand where you are coming from.

 

First though, I do want to say that there is a lot to like about this game. I'm not blind to its problems, but the game does shine in some respects.

I think there is one main point that I can see, and it has some corollaries, if you will.

 

This is the main problem.

Bioware/EA doesn't know how to run a successful MMO. They thought that if they emulated World of Warcraft (WoW) and bring a big focus on story, they would have a WoW killer because they would be doing everything WoW did, have 8 great stories to tell, AND have the franchise juggernaut power of Star Wars behind the game. On the surface if you don't probe too hard and ask for details, it sounds like a winning strategy. And, while the game did have a strong start, because BW/EA didn't know how to run/manage a successful MMO, things just went downhill from launch.

 

A corollary to this point is that BW/Ea doesn't know and I'll go so far as to say they maybe never did know, what their player base wants.

 

Somehow, they got it into their heads that we (the players) were going to love CXP/GC/RNG even after the player base told them both in the forums and during the live streams that CXP/GC/RNG was a bad idea, they still implemented it. You can argue that by the time of the live streams talking about how CXP/GC/RNG was going to be released, it was too late to change course. But, again, if BW/EA knew their player base, CXP/GC/RNG would never have been a thought, especially since in the early days of 1.x, they tried a similar thing with respect to PVP gearing (anyone remember champion bags) back when we still had the stat expertise. And, they abandoned that in favor of a commendations way of gearing.

I think BW/EA thought before 5.0's release, that CXP/GC/RNG would actually help in retaining subscriptions. In the immortal words of Robert Downey Jr's Iron Man/Tony Stark "Not a great plan".

 

Another example to this corollary is the KOTFE story. It's true that players before KOTFE's release wanted story. And, BW "listened" except apparently they have selective hearing. The players wanted more CLASS stories, not a "you are Generic Hero of the Galaxy" type of story that KOTFE and KOTET were . We wanted to know what happened to the imperial agent after

Imperial Intelligence was disbanded.

We wanted to know what was the role and continued adventures of the Emperor's Wrath after

the Knight seemingly killed the Emperor or at least the Emperor's most recent Voice.

How might the Inquisitor

govern the Empire and interact with the Dark Council after securing a seat on the Dark Council?

And similar things for the rest of the classes.

You can argue that by 3.x, BW/EA didn't have the resources to do anymore class stories, which was probably true to an extent. But, I'll say they could have taken a less story intensive approach to the future, just doing like what they did in Shadow of Revan's initial release, just small class stories, enough to make the player smile and do something else with respect to end game activities. They had all the voice actors available and new ones (voices for Senya, Arcann, Valkorion, etc), so I think with a little creativity, they could have done something for class stories. But, I digress.

 

Other examples of BW/EA not knowing what their players want exist as well.

 

Another corollary is that BW/EA doesn't really listen to their player base, and historically seem to have this "we know what you (the players) want better than you (the players) do" attitude. The most recent example of this is CXP/GC/RNG. I'll even list the Umbara SH as one of these things. Before I get crucified (Crucifying others being the number one pastime of those on the forums ), I'm not saying the Umbara SH is bad. But, I am saying almost no one was asking for a SH on Umbara. Since player housing (strongholds) were released, there has been no shortage of player suggestions on where a new SH should be implemented. But, somehow, BW got it into their heads that Umbara just had to be the next location for a stronghold. Forget serene a location like Tython or a tropical place like Rishi. There were plenty of suggestions to choose from, but for whatever reason, our suggestions were ignored.

Note: Manaan was a player suggestion, and it was implemented.

A more historical example goes back to the game's release. Before release, people told BW that they didn't have enough end game content to keep players busy. BW didn't really do anything about this and went ahead with release. The rest is history.

Perhaps it's best to state that BW/EA sometimes, does partially listen, but not most of the time. It seems that in recent times (since Keith started being producer) that they are more inclined to listen. Examples: all the things that have been done to take the sting out of CPX/RNG/GC.

 

The only way to change the game drastically for the better would be to pull an FF14 ARR (Final Fantasy XIV a Realm Reborn). The extremely short version is that the initial release of FF14 was bad. So, SquareEnix, redesigned the game with alot of TLC, re-released the game, and it has been like the 2nd most popular MMO behind WoW.

However, there is at least one big difference in situations (FF14 and SWTOR). The Final Fantasy franchise is SquareEnix's baby. It would be a stain on their flagship franchise and the company if they let a Final Fantasy MMO die badly. Star Wars isn't the pride and joy of BW/EA though they have developed some games for the SW franchise, and they don't own SW.

To BW/EA, SWTOR is just another source of revenue. If that source stops producing sufficient profits, they will pull the plug.

I think that given enough time (we're talking many years) if Kieth were to continue serving as producer, the game would very slowly start to turn around. However, SWTOR probably doesn't have those years needed. And, unless more resources are allocated to SWTOR, the game will keep limping along until the profits just aren't there for EA/BW.

I'm not saying Kieth is the savior of SWTOR, that he can do no wrong, or anything like that. But, he does play the game. And, I think he really does want to improve the game. However, he isn't the absolute authority over the game. As others have said, he has bosses, and he can only work with the resources he has, which it seems aren't much these days.

 

That is what I can see from my perspective. I'm sure other players can mention things they see

 

I'll add that they spend more time trying to convince people who don't like Ops or PVP to do those activities, than actually creating new Ops or new maps or game modes for the people who do like them, level synching Ops and FP means people who did them before have little interest besides the loot, and people who never did them can only do them in groups of people who have done them countless times and understandably don't want to see the same old cutscenes again

 

I had no idea who the hell Aygo was because everytime i do Kuat i have to skip most of it, i guess he's the guy you're supposed to meet halfway in the FP.

 

I don't even dislike KOTFE i just dislike the fact that once i start it is as if i was playing a different game, if i want my companions back i have to either do 9 chapters or skip the whole thing, no middle ground.

 

I can't play the parts of KOTFE/KOTET that i like because i have to do the ones i don't like before.

 

The way they handle Marr, Acina and HK55 is just insane, how does removing them make the game better, why can't we just refuse to recruit Kalyio instead of having her around doing next to nothing before we get the chance to ditch her?

 

Most if not all of these have nothing to do with budget or staff constraints, they are just bad choices BW refuses to rectify.

[olagatonjedi]

I'll add that they spend more time trying to convince people who don't like Ops or PVP to do those activities, than actually creating new Ops or new maps or game modes for the people who do like them, level synching Ops and FP means people who did them before have little interest besides the loot, and people who never did them can only do them in groups of people who have done them countless times and understandably don't want to see the same old cutscenes again

 

I had no idea who the hell Aygo was because everytime i do Kuat i have to skip most of it, i guess he's the guy you're supposed to meet halfway in the FP.

 

I don't even dislike KOTFE i just dislike the fact that once i start it is as if i was playing a different game, if i want my companions back i have to either do 9 chapters or skip the whole thing, no middle ground.

 

I can't play the parts of KOTFE/KOTET that i like because i have to do the ones i don't like before.

 

The way they handle Marr, Acina and HK55 is just insane, how does removing them make the game better, why can't we just refuse to recruit Kalyio instead of having her around doing next to nothing before we get the chance to ditch her?

 

Most if not all of these have nothing to do with budget or staff constraints, they are just bad choices BW refuses to rectify.

You, and others, dont seem to realize that there can only be so much content, otherwise the remaining (and naturally decreasing) population gets way too spread out that it doesnt allow enough participants for each area of the game, which turns it more and more into a solo-based game.

 

BW, and other MMOs, essentially need to force remaining players to play all content of the game in order to keep participants available for them. Its a catch 22, because you lose people if you spread people out with too much content, you lose people if not enough people are playing certain content because queues/pops dont happen, and you lose people if you force them to take part in all content.

 

If you can find the solution to that dilemma, im sure you will have a well paying job for multiple MMO companies.

[YlliyaXor]

You, and others, dont seem to realize that there can only be so much content, otherwise the remaining (and naturally decreasing) population gets way too spread out that it doesnt allow enough participants for each area of the game, which turns it more and more into a solo-based game.

 

BW, and other MMOs, essentially need to force remaining players to play all content of the game in order to keep participants available for them. Its a catch 22, because you lose people if you spread people out with too much content, you lose people if not enough people are playing certain content because queues/pops dont happen, and you lose people if you force them to take part in all content.

 

If you can find the solution to that dilemma, im sure you will have a well paying job for multiple MMO companies.

 

And i suppose that by forcing players to play aspects of the game they dislike will automatically make them good at those aspects? Because if it doesn't, then you are just breeding toxicity. How is a player afking in a warzone a good thing? How is a player who isn't aware of his role queuing for a FP/Ops a good thing?

 

Not everyone is welcome in Ops and PVP, once you forced them on people that aren't welcome (for one reason or another, usually lack of skill), what are they supposed to do?

 

You want a stable population, not people doing content t because they were corralled there, this game had a population that was more than stable, they keep antagonizing and eventually losing that population.

 

We are not looking for the solution to a general problem, we are looking for the solution to a problem BW created, and refuses to acknowledge and consequentially solve.

[olagatonjedi]

And i suppose that by forcing players to play aspects of the game they dislike will automatically make them good at those aspects? Because if it doesn't, then you are just breeding toxicity. How is a player afking in a warzone a good thing? How is a player who isn't aware of his role queuing for a FP/Ops a good thing?

I didnt say it was a good thing. I said it was an active thing, and a necessity for a game to stay alive if its experiencing decreasing population - which swtor is. Which do you want?

1). An active game where you can do what you enjoy?

2). An inactive game that eventually dies off because nobody can do what they want as often as they want?

 

It pretty much comes down to that. And honestly, i dont care what system is in place, you have absolutely no control over what someone else does with their gametime. If content is available, anyone can log in and afk in a warzone or be poorly skilled at whatever content they enjoy, or dont enjoy.

 

Not everyone is welcome in Ops and PVP, once you forced them on people that aren't welcome (for one reason or another, usually lack of skill), what are they supposed to do?

Everyone is welcome to join a warzone or ops or fp. The people in the group dont control how you react to their behavior. You control your own actions and behavior.

 

Ill give you two situations:

Skilled player wants only skilled people in his group, but gets a bunch of "bads.".

 

New player joins flashpoint with experienced xp farmers but new player wants to watch the cut scenea.

 

All players have their own goals and ideas about what makes the game enjoyable for themselves, and the game puts content in place to attempt to please all players as much as it can, but many times you have to give up some of your wants for the chance to complete the goal you set out to accomplish, while others do too. As for the situations i presented, think about how each of them could react, should react, and likely will react.

 

You want a stable population, not people doing content t because they were corralled there, this game had a population that was more than stable, they keep antagonizing and eventually losing that population.

You have much to learn about MMOs. There are plenty of reasons for people to leave the game, and attempting to remotely identify 1 specific reason for every player is an impossible task. Populations decrease, as I said. Its the natural progression of ALL MMOs. Every change made to the game affects everyone differently, and affects the game in many more ways than just what is being changed.

 

For example, if nothing else was changed in the next patch except assassins got a damage buff. Not only does this affect players who main assassins, but there will be a new influx of players playing assassin. This leads to people who main other roles (tanks/heals) wanting to try new-Sin out, so less tanks and healers available to group up. More buffed Sins in PvP, so new dynamics within the match, more crying about stealthing to acid, more people leaving and asking for a buff to their class. And many more things are affected as well. All from 1 change. Now.....lets change 50 things on an update......easy to break the game trying to please everyone, and therefore easy to lose players because people will always take things personally.

LMAO, and then you have people expecting changes every week. Yeah, thats a brilliant idea, players looking to destroy the game entirely.

 

We are not looking for the solution to a general problem, we are looking for the solution to a problem BW created, and refuses to acknowledge and consequentially solve.

Lol, typical blame game. Look at my 1-change Sin example above - players make the decision to start playing Sin over their normal toon because of the change. BW doesnt force them to play the toon. Players are just as responsible for the state of the game as BW is, but rarely are players willing to accept responsibility for a failed change.

Edited September 18, 2017 by olagatonjedi

[Tisaren]

We honestly should get paid to keep playing if we have to work this hard to keep playing until you figure out what's next.

One's time spend in a game does not represent any monetary value, except the amount one spends on a subscription (in SWTOR that would be around $0.02/hour). A) one is not forced to play and B) one should know that there are much more profitable activities available IRL (work for instance). Bioware does not owe players anything except to keep the game up and running and make sure players can login and play. That's it. One's time spend in games is utterly worthless when it comes to dollar value.

[Aderes]

Everyone's missing his point, so I'll put this up:

 

 

TLDR: SWTOR sucks now because of the grind, pls fix.

[kodrac]

Everyone's missing his point, so I'll put this up:

 

 

TLDR: SWTOR sucks now because of the grind, pls fix.

 

Ah, thank you. That makes much more sense.

[YlliyaXor]

I didnt say it was a good thing. I said it was an active thing, and a necessity for a game to stay alive if its experiencing decreasing population - which swtor is. Which do you want?

1). An active game where you can do what you enjoy?

2). An inactive game that eventually dies off because nobody can do what they want as often as they want?

 

It pretty much comes down to that. And honestly, i dont care what system is in place, you have absolutely no control over what someone else does with their gametime. If content is available, anyone can log in and afk in a warzone or be poorly skilled at whatever content they enjoy, or dont enjoy.

 

 

Everyone is welcome to join a warzone or ops or fp. The people in the group dont control how you react to their behavior. You control your own actions and behavior.

 

Ill give you two situations:

Skilled player wants only skilled people in his group, but gets a bunch of "bads.".

 

New player joins flashpoint with experienced xp farmers but new player wants to watch the cut scenea.

 

All players have their own goals and ideas about what makes the game enjoyable for themselves, and the game puts content in place to attempt to please all players as much as it can, but many times you have to give up some of your wants for the chance to complete the goal you set out to accomplish, while others do too. As for the situations i presented, think about how each of them could react, should react, and likely will react.

 

 

You have much to learn about MMOs. There are plenty of reasons for people to leave the game, and attempting to remotely identify 1 specific reason for every player is an impossible task. Populations decrease, as I said. Its the natural progression of ALL MMOs. Every change made to the game affects everyone differently, and affects the game in many more ways than just what is being changed.

 

For example, if nothing else was changed in the next patch except assassins got a damage buff. Not only does this affect players who main assassins, but there will be a new influx of players playing assassin. This leads to people who main other roles (tanks/heals) wanting to try new-Sin out, so less tanks and healers available to group up. More buffed Sins in PvP, so new dynamics within the match, more crying about stealthing to acid, more people leaving and asking for a buff to their class. And many more things are affected as well. All from 1 change. Now.....lets change 50 things on an update......easy to break the game trying to please everyone, and therefore easy to lose players because people will always take things personally.

LMAO, and then you have people expecting changes every week. Yeah, thats a brilliant idea, players looking to destroy the game entirely.

 

 

Lol, typical blame game. Look at my 1-change Sin example above - players make the decision to start playing Sin over their normal toon because of the change. BW doesnt force them to play the toon. Players are just as responsible for the state of the game as BW is, but rarely are players willing to accept responsibility for a failed change.

 

If the alternative is an active game where i can do things i don't enjoy, i don't really understand what your point is, if people stuck around for things they don't enjoy everything would be fine, in any game ever.

 

We know when and why people start afking in warzones, we know why that guy with the wrong gear at lvl 50 is in a warzone, in the old system you only needed to look at someone and see their lack of expertise to see that it was someone who was doing pvp only because of a companion or some other carrot , the carrot should be the pvp itself, and it was working okish until they decided to use tricks to bump the numbers, it's "great" that you don't care and keep on playing but most people just move on to a better gaming experience.

 

Even if the players are to blame no sane dev should do it, unless every single player is equally responsible you are punishing all for the actions of some (like the cxp gold mob nerf), no dev would ever reward all players for the good actions of a few ones, if there is a problem caused by the devs the devs have to solve it, if there is a problem caused by the players the devs have to solve it too, who is to blame is irrelevant, it helps if we don't give them problems, but it's always their job to solve the problems.

[olagatonjedi]

If the alternative is an active game where i can do things i don't enjoy, i don't really understand what your point is, if people stuck around for things they don't enjoy everything would be fine, in any game ever.

Ahh, I see. You want a game where everything you do is enjoyable. No wipes, no deaths, nothing costs money, just log in and everything you want comes to you, at the rate you personally decide. Its so clear to me now.

 

News flash:. You arent supposed to enjoy everything about an MMO because its impossible to give every player everything they want when they want it and have an active game. There are always going to be elements that you may not enjoy or agree with that you need to endure. Its the nature of bringing so many different elements together and then throwing hundreds or thousands of people in the mix. At some point every player needs to decide if the enjoyable stuff outweighs the not-so-enjoyable stuff. And understand that we all enjoy different things, too.

 

We know when and why people start afking in warzones....., the carrot should be the pvp itself, and it was working okish until they decided to use tricks to bump the numbers,....

In your opinion.

 

 

Even if the players are to blame no sane dev should do it, unless every single player is equally responsible you are punishing all for the actions of some (like the cxp gold mob nerf), no dev would ever reward all players for the good actions of a few ones, if there is a problem caused by the devs the devs have to solve it, if there is a problem caused by the players the devs have to solve it too, who is to blame is irrelevant, it helps if we don't give them problems, but it's always their job to solve the problems.

The devs have the unenviable task of trying to balance the game while also meeting the demands of the vocal majority. Ask yourself, and others, if you would still be playing if everything was still running the same as day1. Chances are you would get a mix of answers. So the devs have made their own changes, in addition to player-demanded changes, and the game has progressed to a point where we are now, and they are trying to fix the player broken class balance issues by finally nerfing every class to a closer playing field. They are trying to improve population and participation metrics with a nrw loot system that caters to the masses and not just the hard core players. The list goes on and on. The nice thing about changes is that they can be undone if necessary. The downside is you cant change the real time impact of changes. And you still cant blame the impact on one specific thing. They have buffed classes in the past and added new content, and still had people leave the game after getting what was asked for. Its a no win situation for the devs.