The dark side to the Toxic Community in SWTOR

[Amantionus]

And here's another reason the player base in this game is toxic. Not caring about what happens to other players in the game and that only their opinions matter I hope none of you have kids cause if you do I seriously feel sorry for them especially if they are being bullied cause this exact **** is why many teenagers contemplate suicide if they are being bullied they are being told to ignore the bully and it does no good and the bully keeps at it so the teenager feels that saying something does no good. Words hurt just as much as physically abuse and can be just as damaging, take it from someone who spent 8 years being verbally abused by their ex and emotionally abused as well as emotionally, verbally and physically abused by their family.

 

Shove it off all you it is people like you two that are part of the problem because you don't think this stuff is serious when it is your lack of understanding it. Just because you haven't been through it does not automatically give you the right to dismiss someone's feelings who is being put through it and the truth is many of us do not wish to see this done upon anyone else, as the old saying goes do unto others what you would have done unto to you and I will stand up against this bullsh*t and will tell you that this advice you are giving is part of the problem.

 

Sorry if my suggestion is an inconvenience to you but guess what? It's not my fault people abuse the whisper function and putting the blame on the victim is no better than the people who abuse the feature, bullies or the physical/verbal/emotional abuser, because here's the thing most people in these situations get exactly what you two are doing and it's disgusting. You are putting the blame on the victim which is exactly what people who are physically/verbally/emotionally abusive do. I speak from personal experience as I have been in two abuse relationships and both times they made me the bad guy when I was the victim. Did force my exs to be physically and verbally assaultive? No, no one is forcing these players to do this where they harass people and there needs to be actions made against these people and steps taken to make sure it cannot continue so no one else has to go through it and if it inconveniences other people oh well, safety of the player base needs to come first not the petty inconveniences they may cause other players. Player safety needs to be more important.

 

Add-on: This bullsh*t of putting blame on the victims of harassment needs to stop.

 

A few points.

 

First, I am only one person, not two.

 

Second, suicide. I've studied the phenomena a great deal. It is part and parcel to military training and is a substantial portion of the area in which I earned my degree. My training, studies and experience indicate that words are among the least likely thing to result in suicide attempts by themselves in the absence of other factors. Physical abuse and bullying is another matter obviously. Physical abuse and emotional trauma are one of the more common causative factors, though well behind things like mental illness and substantial individual traumatic experiences.

 

Third. You take issue with the suggestion that the exchange may not be all one way. However, having dealt with the legal side of these matters in multiple cases I can say that my experience is that one way exchanges are less common that bilateral exchanges when it comes to words. Physical abuse is a false equivalency in this case as there is no physical way for the person on the other side of the monitor to interact with you, they are restricted to non-physical interactions.

 

Fourth. I did not say that unilateral exchanges are not happening or that they are not possible. Merely that I would find such a claim without additional evidence to be suspect. That is not "blaming the victim", that is verifying the facts. Perhaps in your case it is all one way. I have seen such interactions but rarely, very rarely in fact. My experience is that usually the exchange goes both ways. I filled out enough page 13's to be somewhat acquainted with the process.

 

Fifth. When the other person is incapable of impacting you physically, ignoring them and using the available report and ignore functions makes a great deal of logical sense. That is not being callous, that is being logical.

 

Sixth. You have made a claim that "just walking through fleet" triggers these interactions. What is it that makes you such a target? I have played off and on for some years now and not had this experience. My list of acquaintances in game is rather short, but they also do not seem to draw this sort of attention. A responsible investigator will ask, "why was this person targeted?".

 

Seventh. Trust me, words do not hurt nearly as much as actions. I have been attacked, I have been stabbed, I have seen friends literally blown to pieces and held their bleeding, broken and dying forms in my arms. Words have nothing on actions... A fist hurts far more than a tongue, a knife hurts far more than an insult. To equate the two is a leap to say the least. Yes, psychological pain is real. It can wear a person down and devastate them. Physical pain is worse. The two combined is the worst of all. That is why things like waterboarding have been used throughout the centuries as torture...they combine psychological and physical pain in one neat little package of absolute terror and hopelessness for the victim. I had to do a few minutes of it in training and knew it was training, yet it was worse than having a knife in my arm (which really was miserable to say the least).

 

In closing. It is not that I do or do not care about people. If I didn't care about others I wouldn't have served nor would I be in the line of work I am in now. However, I am a person that favors logic over feeling, thought over emotion. Someone burns their finger? I don't "kiss it better", but I speak calmly and apply a cold compress. Now, someone mentioned making ignore an account wide feature. That is a VERY good idea. That is a logical idea and an effective idea as well. I personally did not realize it was not account wide, the person I ignored oh so long ago was never a factor after I ignored them. Perhaps they were not as dedicated to cyber stalking as some folks, maybe they moved on to someone that would react to them, I don't know. What I do know is that most people that act the arse are trying to get a reaction, when they don't get it, they either move on or stop. Sure, there are some folks that really are just "aft openings" that will not stop no matter what. Dealing with those is another matter. That is where an account wide ignore function is needed and desirable. However, saying "if the penalty impacts others, too bad" is NOT the way to go...that is the very excuse the Spanish and Roman inquisitions used, as well as the Star Chamber and the perpetrators of the Albigensian Crusade when justifying torture and wholesale slaughter...

[Jagaimee]

Oi. I just got done with a month-long argument about this subject. During which I was harassed, insulted, belittled, told I'm a stupid child who's been raised by "foul" people to have such opinions as I do, called - and I quote - "cruel, thoughtless, heartless, cold, [and] inhuman," among other things. At some points I was getting a thesaurus just to look up how many adjectives the guy used.

 

Blah, blah, blah, so what. Did the guy's words hurt? Yeah, they did. There were times when I was crying with pure anger over what this delusional idiot said. I talked to my mom about it, she gave me encouragement, I responded to him in a calm, mature way...... End result: the moderators of that website came down like the wrath of Heaven on his frothing-at-the-mouth rants, deleted most of them (but left my posts), and gave him a verbal smack in the face.

I did not know moderators on that website actually existed before that incident. O_o

Look, I'm not saying words don't hurt. Whoever came up with that "sticks and stones" phrase went about it in the wrong way. Words do hurt, but it's up to you to decide what to do afterwards. My reaction was an example of what not to do. I learned that the hard way.

 

Put all of the "bullying" in perspective, please. IT'S WORDS. ON A PAGE. ON A SCREEN. Then consider the source. Why does nobody consider the source? Look at who's saying these things: trolls, hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, waiting for a reaction. They want you to be upset. Or they want to prove their superiority by making you feel bad.

 

So why do you give them control over your life? I once read an analogy: it's like giving someone else the remote control to your life and telling them to change the station to whatever they want. Give them a reaction, even if they don't see or know about in any way (i.e. you get depressed or you cry) - and they win.

 

Why the heck do you let them win?

 

In the heat of the moment, yeah, it's hard not to feel upset. Then that moment passes, and you can look at the incident more objectively.

 

When the harassment carries over into real life - when you're being stalked, physically/emotionally abused, or whatnot - then yeah, do something about it. Go to the police, go to whoever you can trust, IMMEDIATELY. That's no laughing matter; that's dead serious. But when "harassment" comes in the form of people /whispering you and calling you names...um, so? Ignore them. If they switch to an alt, ignore the alt. Keep doing so for however many alts they have. Ta-da, now they can no longer bug you. (Legacy ignore, please, BioWare? ) This is in no way something to get all shook up about, all depressed about, or all triggered. Grow a thicker skin, ignore them, shake your head about how weird people are/laugh to yourself about their failed trolling attempt, and move on. That guy I was arguing with? I don't let him bother me now. Why should I? He's never going to a) apologize, or b) understand that he was wrong. So... let it go. Not my problem now. Move on.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Jagaimee

[DieAlteHexe]

...

 

Why the heck do you let them win?

 

In the heat of the moment, yeah, it's hard not to feel upset. Then that moment passes, and you can look at the incident more objectively.

 

When the harassment carries over into real life - when you're being stalked, physically/emotionally abused, or whatnot - then yeah, do something about it. Go to the police, go to whoever you can trust, IMMEDIATELY. That's no laughing matter; that's dead serious. But when "harassment" comes in the form of people /whispering you and calling you names...um, so? Ignore them. If they switch to an alt, ignore the alt. Keep doing so for however many alts they have. Ta-da, now they can no longer bug you. (Legacy ignore, please, BioWare? ) This is in no way something to get all shook up about, all depressed about, or all triggered. Grow a thicker skin, ignore them, shake your head about how weird people are/laugh to yourself about their failed trolling attempt, and move on. That guy I was arguing with? I don't let him bother me now. Why should I? He's never going to a) apologize, or b) understand that he was wrong. So... let it go. Not my problem now. Move on.

 

Entire post, very VERY well said. Kudos.

[Amantionus]

Jagaimee very well said and far more eloquent than I could hope to be.

 

Your closing there reminded me of a line from a pastor. "Forgiving someone doesn't mean you are saying what they did was ok, it means that you are not going to let it bother you".

 

Life in the real world and life in a game or on a forum are not the same thing at all. If someone is messing with a person in the "real world" that is a huge problem and getting appropriate people involved is the right thing to do. If it is a troll in a game, ignore them, give them no power over you and move on.

[IoNonSoEVero]

A few points.

Fourth. I did not say that unilateral exchanges are not happening or that they are not possible. Merely that I would find such a claim without additional evidence to be suspect. That is not "blaming the victim", that is verifying the facts. Perhaps in your case it is all one way. I have seen such interactions but rarely, very rarely in fact. My experience is that usually the exchange goes both ways. I filled out enough page 13's to be somewhat acquainted with the process.

 

Sixth. You have made a claim that "just walking through fleet" triggers these interactions. What is it that makes you such a target? I have played off and on for some years now and not had this experience. My list of acquaintances in game is rather short, but they also do not seem to draw this sort of attention. A responsible investigator will ask, "why was this person targeted?".

 

 

Just addressing these points. They've done a lot of psych and sociological study on online behavior, and a lot of trolling and harassment can be explained by the online disinhibition effect. Other studies that have profiled trolls have shown that at least a small percentage of people who engage in online harassment have sadistic and narcissistic personality traits even offline. There's a great story by a former troll that I will link below. In that person's perspective, gaming harassment happens for lulz and attention. That's on the perpetrator, not the victim.

 

Unfortunately, this means that many of the attacks *are* unilateral and unprovoked. The fact that you personally have not experienced it doesn't mean it has never happened to anyone else.

 

In my case, the times I've been bothered on the Fleet, I've literally just been Walking. Through. The. Fleet. Shopping. Going about my business. Not messing with anyone else. I'm female and have female characters. This alone is enough to trigger people into attacking sometimes. I once ran into a player, for instance, who was throwing snowballs at me and other female characters and following them around with flirt emotes in a fairly difficult section of the game, where one should really not be distracted. Could it be ignored? Sure. I kept playing and he eventually faded out. Was he a jerk who was behaving inappropriately? Yes. Was it my fault he was an inappropriate jerk? No. I had a right to be on the planet and doing the quest as much as any other player.

 

http://99u.com/articles/25151/dont-feed-the-haters-the-confessions-of-a-former-troll

http://academicearth.org/electives/psychology-internet-troll/

[DarthEnrique]

But when "harassment" comes in the form of people /whispering you and calling you names...um, so? Ignore them. If they switch to an alt, ignore the alt. Keep doing so for however many alts they have. Ta-da, now they can no longer bug you. (Legacy ignore, please, BioWare? ) This is in no way something to get all shook up about, all depressed about, or all triggered. Grow a thicker skin, ignore them, shake your head about how weird people are/laugh to yourself about their failed trolling attempt, and move on. That guy I was arguing with? I don't let him bother me now. Why should I? He's never going to a) apologize, or b) understand that he was wrong. So... let it go. Not my problem now. Move on.

This is the only thing I disagree with you on because this seems to be a reoccuring issue in this game, you obviously understand the frustration behind it as you did ask for a legacy ignore feature but that continues to be ignored by Bioware and I also tend to agree with the idea of having an option for people to be able have it where only people you have on your friends list can whisper you.

[Amantionus]

Just addressing these points. They've done a lot of psych and sociological study on online behavior, and a lot of trolling and harassment can be explained by the online disinhibition effect. Other studies that have profiled trolls have shown that at least a small percentage of people who engage in online harassment have sadistic and narcissistic personality traits even offline. There's a great story by a former troll that I will link below. In that person's perspective, gaming harassment happens for lulz and attention. That's on the perpetrator, not the victim.

 

Unfortunately, this means that many of the attacks *are* unilateral and unprovoked. The fact that you personally have not experienced it doesn't mean it has never happened to anyone else.

 

In my case, the times I've been bothered on the Fleet, I've literally just been Walking. Through. The. Fleet. Shopping. Going about my business. Not messing with anyone else. I'm female and have female characters. This alone is enough to trigger people into attacking sometimes. I once ran into a player, for instance, who was throwing snowballs at me and other female characters and following them around with flirt emotes in a fairly difficult section of the game, where one should really not be distracted. Could it be ignored? Sure. I kept playing and he eventually faded out. Was he a jerk who was behaving inappropriately? Yes. Was it my fault he was an inappropriate jerk? No. I had a right to be on the planet and doing the quest as much as any other player.

 

http://99u.com/articles/25151/dont-feed-the-haters-the-confessions-of-a-former-troll

http://academicearth.org/electives/psychology-internet-troll/

 

I am not going to disagree with you on that. There are some people out there like that. My degree is sociology and social sciences (which includes psychology). The dis-inhibition effect is very well documented also. The same goes for to sociopaths, narcissists etc.

 

I would question the number of unilateral attacks. Terms like "many", "few" etc. are relative. Qualitative measures are not the most desirable, I rather like quantitative metrics instead. I will also not claim that my experience is representative of all players. I play both male and female characters (in equal numbers, divided equally between both factions, because...well...I might be a little OCD). Maybe it is the server I am on, maybe the times I play, perhaps the names I choose or any other possible variable.

 

Also, to clarify, I was not trying to be accusatory when I questioned the walking through fleet scenario. But on the surface, it appeared odd to me. That which appears unusual or out of place tends to be something the human mind fixates on. Yes, it is certainly possible that you came across one or more of those individuals that act in a disgusting, juvenile and/or sub-human manner. They are out there, not just on the net, but as you noted, in the real world as well.

 

However, from an investigatory standpoint, one should ask the question about the exact circumstances (it does come off as rude and callous I admit, I also do not have the best bedside manner, which is why I am not a doctor or therapist).

 

But ultimately, I question the wisdom of placing the power to do something about the issue in a bit of code. I would think an account wide ignore (whoever mentioned that first, seriously, BW needs to hire you as a player relations consultant) and the current report function (which if it is not account wide on the squelch needs to be) seem to be the best options to me. For more direct forms of harassment (such as you described) I am not sure what could be done other than perhaps a temporary ban followed by perhaps a perma-ban for continued misbehavior. But does the snowball throwing equate to say the constant following? How would we set degrees and penalties? I am not saying nothing should be done, but rather that the words aspect is not the area BW needs to be focused.

[americanaussie]

I am not going to disagree with you on that. There are some people out there like that. My degree is sociology and social sciences (which includes psychology). The dis-inhibition effect is very well documented also. The same goes for to sociopaths, narcissists etc.

 

I would question the number of unilateral attacks. Terms like "many", "few" etc. are relative. Qualitative measures are not the most desirable, I rather like quantitative metrics instead. I will also not claim that my experience is representative of all players. I play both male and female characters (in equal numbers, divided equally between both factions, because...well...I might be a little OCD). Maybe it is the server I am on, maybe the times I play, perhaps the names I choose or any other possible variable.

 

Also, to clarify, I was not trying to be accusatory when I questioned the walking through fleet scenario. But on the surface, it appeared odd to me. That which appears unusual or out of place tends to be something the human mind fixates on. Yes, it is certainly possible that you came across one or more of those individuals that act in a disgusting, juvenile and/or sub-human manner. They are out there, not just on the net, but as you noted, in the real world as well.

 

However, from an investigatory standpoint, one should ask the question about the exact circumstances (it does come off as rude and callous I admit, I also do not have the best bedside manner, which is why I am not a doctor or therapist).

 

But ultimately, I question the wisdom of placing the power to do something about the issue in a bit of code. I would think an account wide ignore (whoever mentioned that first, seriously, BW needs to hire you as a player relations consultant) and the current report function (which if it is not account wide on the squelch needs to be) seem to be the best options to me. For more direct forms of harassment (such as you described) I am not sure what could be done other than perhaps a temporary ban followed by perhaps a perma-ban for continued misbehavior. But does the snowball throwing equate to say the constant following? How would we set degrees and penalties? I am not saying nothing should be done, but rather that the words aspect is not the area BW needs to be focused.

 

I agree with you, although the problem with banning is it's a he said, she said. Bans happen now. Ive heard people banned in order to hurt their guild conquests...as in the accuser lies. BW usually just issues bans on reports, they don't allow for follow ups in case it's wrongfully done and it's not like Facebook where people get off free all the time either.

 

I honestly don't think this kind of bullying just happens normally to the average player. I'm not saying it never does, because it probably has. But, my bets are on something occuring that sets or escalates this. Arguing, name calling in gen chat. Reacting badly to trolls. Etc

 

The only time I've been trolled into quitting out was when this level 50 camped out between the speeder and med bay on Tatooine on a PvP server to repeatedly kill my low level toon. Respawn point was far away from the guards. Man that sucked but that is it.

 

I think the reports of abuse should be looked over by a person but what to do when both sides escalated it (or tell one side of the story?)

[MeNaCe-NZ]

And here's another reason the player base in this game is toxic. Not caring about what happens to other players in the game and that only their opinions matter I hope none of you have kids cause if you do I seriously feel sorry for them especially if they are being bullied cause this exact **** is why many teenagers contemplate suicide if they are being bullied they are being told to ignore the bully and it does no good and the bully keeps at it so the teenager feels that saying something does no good.

 

Shove it off all you it is people like you two that are part of the problem because you don't think this stuff is serious when it is your lack of understanding it. Just because you haven't been through it does not automatically give you the right to dismiss someone's feelings who is being put through it and the truth is many of us do not wish to see this done upon anyone else, as the old saying goes do unto others what you would have done unto to you and I will stand up against this bullsh*t and will tell you that this advice you are giving is part of the problem.

 

Sorry if my suggestion is an inconvenience to you but guess what? It's not my fault people abuse the whisper function and putting the blame on the victim is no better than the people who abuse the feature, bullies or the physical/verbal/emotional abuser, because here's the thing most people in these situations get exactly what you two are doing and it's disgusting. You are putting the blame on the victim which is exactly what people who are physically/verbally/emotionally abusive do. I speak from personal experience as I have been in two abuse relationships and both times they made me the bad guy when I was the victim. Did force my exs to be physically and verbally assaultive? No, no one is forcing these players to do this where they harass people and there needs to be actions made against these people and steps taken to make sure it cannot continue so no one else has to go through it and if it inconveniences other people oh well, safety of the player base needs to come first not the petty inconveniences they may cause other players. Player safety needs to be more important.

 

Add-on: This bullsh*t of putting blame on the victims of harassment needs to stop.

 

See this is the problem with your posts.

 

People try have a rationale discussion on topics and every time you blow it out of all proportion simply because people have a differing view than you.

 

You are actually attacking people in your posts now so you are no better than the people you supposedly detest as I see it (the bullies etc. of the world).

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Making whispers friends only would make pugging a pain in the ***

 

Indeed, it's an utterly nonsense idea.

[DarthEnrique]

See this is the problem with your posts.

 

People try have a rationale discussion on topics and every time you blow it out of all proportion simply because people have a differing view than you.

 

You are actually attacking people in your posts now so you are no better than the people you supposedly detest as I see it (the bullies etc. of the world).

 

🙄 Yes put blame on the victim, been there done that whatever dude. I don't like you anyway and you've never been respectful to my feelings so that's why you get what you got but as always it's my fault cause I apparently force you to say the things you say. I made valid points and rationale discussions on the topic but again here we go with this nonsense. Get a life dude. You aren't going to get niceties out of me ever cause of how you've always treated me. You didn't even look at my rationale post just jumped on the put me down wagon like you always do and I'm the problem. Yeah okay...

[MeNaCe-NZ]

"

Finally, I would be curious to know what these player "victims" do to contribute to this supposed harassment? Generally speaking, people are peaceable and not prone to just randomly attacking others without provocation. Could it be that PC crusades and agenda-mongering tend to piss people off? No, couldn't be that. Those things are as pure as freshly driven snow.

 

You raise an interesting point. For simply having a view you got quite a derogatory response from a poster here who claims to often be a victim.

If that is how this poster chooses to behave is it any wonder they are often targeted?

 

Perhaps people need take a bit more personal responsibility in regards to their own behavior before pointing the finger at others.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Oi. I just got done with a month-long argument about this subject. During which I was harassed, insulted, belittled, told I'm a stupid child who's been raised by "foul" people to have such opinions as I do, called - and I quote - "cruel, thoughtless, heartless, cold, [and] inhuman," among other things. At some points I was getting a thesaurus just to look up how many adjectives the guy used.

 

Blah, blah, blah, so what. Did the guy's words hurt? Yeah, they did. There were times when I was crying with pure anger over what this delusional idiot said. I talked to my mom about it, she gave me encouragement,.

 

An argument you say? As in a dialogue between 2 parties? Regardless of how you behaved you chose to continue with said argument even though the other party was being all these things you say they were that caused you to get so angry you had to go to your mom over it?

 

I mean come on, this is what I mean about personal responsibility. Learn when to walk away, the fact you would continue to engage such people even after getting so personally affected can only really be on you.

 

Look at who's saying these things: trolls, hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, waiting for a reaction. They want you to be upset. Or they want to prove their superiority by making you feel bad.

 

So why do you give them control over your life?

 

Yes, why did you give this person such control over your life? Seems you need to take your own advice.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

🙄 Yes put blame on the victim, been there done that whatever dude. I don't like you anyway and you've never been respectful to my feelings so that's why you get what you got but as always it's my fault cause I apparently force you to say the things you say. I made valid points and rationale discussions on the topic but again here we go with this nonsense. Get a life dude. You aren't going to get niceties out of me ever cause of how you've always treated me. You didn't even look at my rationale post just jumped on the put me down wagon like you always do and I'm the problem. Yeah okay...

 

You aren't the victim here, try get that through your head.

You are actively attacking others purely based on their opinion - you can have your counter opinion without attacking them.

 

I've not got anything from you ever because it often results in rants and attacks that are hard enough to understand let alone reply to.

Maybe slow down and think your posts through more clearly before clicking the reply button.

 

In any case there is a button to deal with your type of posts so we'll let BWA decide if it's out of line or not, no doubt many posts in this thread will go come Monday as some of the subject matter is iffy in regards of ToS I feel.

[Jagaimee]

An argument you say? As in a dialogue between 2 parties? Regardless of how you behaved you chose to continue with said argument even though the other party was being all these things you say they were that caused you to get so angry you had to go to your mom over it?

 

I mean come on, this is what I mean about personal responsibility. Learn when to walk away, the fact you would continue to engage such people even after getting so personally affected can only really be on you.

 

Yeah, I did make a mistake. I learned the hard way that it's better to shrug it off and let it go. And now, I am choosing to walk away, regardless of whether or not this person continues to be an arse. (And "dialogue between two parties" - more like dialogue between him and about five other people, including me, all trying to get him to calm the heck down. Eventually everybody gave up because the guy was going ballistic, and I walked away. Then the moderators swooped in, after everything was all said and done.)

My point was that I have some experience in being "bullied" and getting all bent out of shape over it, so nobody can accuse me: "Well you don't know what you're talking about!" An example of what not to do, in other words.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Jagaimee

[IoNonSoEVero]

I am not going to disagree with you on that. There are some people out there like that. My degree is sociology and social sciences (which includes psychology). The dis-inhibition effect is very well documented also. The same goes for to sociopaths, narcissists etc.

 

I would question the number of unilateral attacks. Terms like "many", "few" etc. are relative. Qualitative measures are not the most desirable, I rather like quantitative metrics instead. I will also not claim that my experience is representative of all players. I play both male and female characters (in equal numbers, divided equally between both factions, because...well...I might be a little OCD). Maybe it is the server I am on, maybe the times I play, perhaps the names I choose or any other possible variable.

 

Also, to clarify, I was not trying to be accusatory when I questioned the walking through fleet scenario. But on the surface, it appeared odd to me. That which appears unusual or out of place tends to be something the human mind fixates on. Yes, it is certainly possible that you came across one or more of those individuals that act in a disgusting, juvenile and/or sub-human manner. They are out there, not just on the net, but as you noted, in the real world as well.

 

However, from an investigatory standpoint, one should ask the question about the exact circumstances (it does come off as rude and callous I admit, I also do not have the best bedside manner, which is why I am not a doctor or therapist).

 

But ultimately, I question the wisdom of placing the power to do something about the issue in a bit of code. I would think an account wide ignore (whoever mentioned that first, seriously, BW needs to hire you as a player relations consultant) and the current report function (which if it is not account wide on the squelch needs to be) seem to be the best options to me. For more direct forms of harassment (such as you described) I am not sure what could be done other than perhaps a temporary ban followed by perhaps a perma-ban for continued misbehavior. But does the snowball throwing equate to say the constant following? How would we set degrees and penalties? I am not saying nothing should be done, but rather that the words aspect is not the area BW needs to be focused.

 

Understood. And I thank you for discussing this in a calm and intelligent manner. One doesn't always see that, especially in threads like these which can become heated very quickly.

 

It's absolutely true that being in the wrong place at the wrong time can often be the difference between being a target and not - much in the same way, in the real world, 100 people might walk across a parking lot safely over the course of an hour, and the 101st person ends up getting mugged or carjacked. They might look like an easy mark in some other way that they have little to no awareness of, or control over - or they could just be the unfortunate person who was randomly targeted. In terms of in-game harassment, being on the Fleet, or elsewhere, at the same time and place as someone who wants to cause trouble is often a matter of (bad) luck.

 

It's impossible to police everyone's behavior, and unfortunately there's no way to force every player to act like a mature, reasonable adult and play well with others. IMHO these three concrete steps would help:

 

1. The Legacy-wide ignore that many here have discussed, and which most people seem to endorse.

 

2. Giving individuals a choice to ignore whispers from non-friends. Make it a choice. We can set our email accounts or phones to only accept communications from people on our contact lists; but we don't have to. It's just there if we want it. Giving this as an option won't change anything for the people who don't wish to use it, and will help those who would prefer less communication from strangers.

 

3. More concrete action from Bioware on cases of direct, clear cases of harassment. People do things because they think they can.

 

I am not talking things like snowballs; I'm talking things like changing toons to keep harassing someone after they've put that player on ignore, or duel spamming. I'd also include things like making direct threats against another player's person via email or whisper. Those HAVE to be taken seriously and most social media and email services ban those sorts of threats in their ToS. Their log ins and game activity are a matter of record, on Bioware's end. Suspensions and bans are warranted in cases like those, IMHO.

Edited September 18, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

[MeNaCe-NZ]

In my case, the times I've been bothered on the Fleet, I've literally just been Walking. Through. The. Fleet. Shopping. Going about my business. Not messing with anyone else. I'm female and have female characters. This alone is enough to trigger people into attacking sometimes. I once ran into a player, for instance, who was throwing snowballs at me and other female characters and following them around with flirt emotes in a fairly difficult section of the game, where one should really not be distracted. Could it be ignored? Sure. I kept playing and he eventually faded out. Was he a jerk who was behaving inappropriately? Yes. Was it my fault he was an inappropriate jerk? No. I had a right to be on the planet and doing the quest as much as any other player.

 

Out of curiosity to what you say here and more so in regards to the point of someone running around you on fleet ...

 

What would you have BWA do? Implement rules on running around people on fleet? Whilst I don't disagree the person was no doubt most likely trying to annoy you (or maybe impress you in their strange reality) ... what would you have BWA do in regards to the more benign behavior?

 

It's hard to have any rules for this sort of thing because then rules can be abused (trolls just love to get other to get themselves in trouble, hence baiting) and there is no way this sort of behavior could ever really be actively monitored by mods (they have enough trouble dealing with racism and pedophilia chat let alone this sort of thing).

[MeNaCe-NZ]

An example of what not to do, in other words.

 

Ah right, makes sense then. I was having trouble seeing where you were coming from there ... maybe state that part at the start of your post.

[Suzsi]

I have seen actual harassment and bullying, I know exactly what stalking is. Until you have a person trailing you 24-7 and then trying to enter your home via a window, you might not appreciate just how serious stalking is. To me, someone sending tells/whispers doesn't measure up.

 

Is there foul language and crude verbal abuse in game? I am sure there is. But, my thing is this, they are just words. Words have no power unless you give them power. You can call me anything you desire, it matters nothing to me. I have likely used the terms you are imagining right now in friendly conversation when I was in the Navy. We had an odd concept of "brotherly love" in the submarine force.

 

Making whisper friends only seems a bit of an over-reaction to me. I receive whispers from random people while gaming. All have been friendly. Many invites to guilds, advice on missions, apologies for grabbing a mission item while I was fighting the NPC guarding it, etc. The benefits of making whisper friends only seem to me to be outweighed by the cons.

 

The ignore function serves well enough. Unless there is a limit on how many names you can ignore (I have not had to use it myself in recent memory, I think I did ignore a person some years ago). If using ignore is not enough, I seem to recall a reporting function as well. If those two items are insufficient, then I suspect the hate, anger and discontent are not all one way...

 

I have had actual death threats (not SWTOR, elsewhere) and I can tell you they are scary as f*ck. To the point where you are SCARED to go outside or leave your curtains open in fear that the person might actually be serious -- and have found out where you live. So you can't say its different because it's not. The fear is real if its words on a screen or words IRL or a letter in the mailbox. Its still equally scary as.

 

Online stalking is also equally scary as... because you just never know how far that person will take it and if they get your RL details. Maybe they will take it to RL levels. When you don't know the person on the other side of the screen and just how far they are willing to go the fear is still very REAL. So please do not try and say it isn't.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Suzsi

[IoNonSoEVero]

Out of curiosity to what you say here and more so in regards to the point of someone running around you on fleet ...

 

What would you have BWA do? Implement rules on running around people on fleet? Whilst I don't disagree the person was no doubt most likely trying to annoy you (or maybe impress you in their strange reality) ... what would you have BWA do in regards to the more benign behavior?

 

It's hard to have any rules for this sort of thing because then rules can be abused (trolls just love to get other to get themselves in trouble, hence baiting) and there is no way this sort of behavior could ever really be actively monitored by mods (they have enough trouble dealing with racism and pedophilia chat let alone this sort of thing).

 

In a case like that I actually don't think there's anything they *can* do because there's no way to force people to act like grownups and play well with others. Walking away and not engaging is probably one's best weapon. But the point I was trying to make was that when people think that random harassment/annoyances don't happen - yes, it does.

 

I think that the two things BW *can* do are to offer players more control over how and when others contact them (ie,. the Legacy-wide ignore, and a CHOICE to limit whispers to friends) and to take a tougher stance when people have engaged in direct, severe unwelcome behavior (such as changing toons or accounts to keep harassing a player, or duel spamming, or sending obscene or threatening emails to another player).

[Jagaimee]

Ah right, makes sense then. I was having trouble seeing where you were coming from there ... maybe state that part at the start of your post.

 

Heh, good idea - I type in the same way that I tend to talk (rather disorganized and rambling, in other words)... what's obvious to me is, in reality, rather muddled for anybody else to try and make sense of.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Jagaimee

[DarthEnrique]

You aren't the victim here, try get that through your head.

You are actively attacking others purely based on their opinion - you can have your counter opinion without attacking them.

 

I've not got anything from you ever because it often results in rants and attacks that are hard enough to understand let alone reply to.

Maybe slow down and think your posts through more clearly before clicking the reply button.

 

In any case there is a button to deal with your type of posts so we'll let BWA decide if it's out of line or not, no doubt many posts in this thread will go come Monday as some of the subject matter is iffy in regards of ToS I feel.

Really Sherlock how about you look at my other posts in the topic instead of instantly jumping on the bash me bandwagon? You are only responsible for yourself and if you aren't going to look at my previous post that led up to this then that's on you not me. Not my problem, it's yours and you have done it to me MULTIPLE TIMES where I've made rationale logical arguments on topics thousands of times giving sound reasonable explanations and for what? To get bashed? No. No one is forcing you to reply to them either. If you don't agree with something or a forum topic whatever, you don't have to come into the topic and reply. Not that hard you know? Take Some responsability for what you do dude. I started out on the topic at hand making rational comparisons to how some of this is no different from bullying but some people don't try to contribute and stick to their same statement over and over and over again when the reality is if they'd just stop replying if they aren't going to make a constructive argument then they are the ones being disturptive to the argument and then you got to come in and add to it? Seriously? I'm the problem? Tell me where if you don't agree with something someone posts in the forums you don't have to reply to it is unrationale? It's not it's just as rational as what you claim I'm not doing but whatever...

Edited September 18, 2017 by DarthEnrique

[americanaussie]

You aren't the victim here, try get that through your head.

You are actively attacking others purely based on their opinion - you can have your counter opinion without attacking them.

 

I've not got anything from you ever because it often results in rants and attacks that are hard enough to understand let alone reply to.

Maybe slow down and think your posts through more clearly before clicking the reply button.

 

In any case there is a button to deal with your type of posts so we'll let BWA decide if it's out of line or not, no doubt many posts in this thread will go come Monday as some of the subject matter is iffy in regards of ToS I feel.

 

Yep. You called it. I tried having a rational discussion with them a bit ago on their other post. They resorted to name calling there too. You can't call yourself a victim when you're insulting and name calling anyone who has a different opinion and defending such actions by saying you're standing up for your rights. Smh

[DarthEnrique]

I have had actual death threats (not SWTOR, elsewhere) and I can tell you they are scary as f*ck. To the point where you are SCARED to go outside or leave your curtains open in fear that the person might actually be serious -- and have found out where you live. So you can't say its different because it's not. The fear is real if its words on a screen or words IRL or a letter in the mailbox. Its still equally scary as.

 

Online stalking is also equally scary as... because you just never know how far that person will take it and if they get your RL details. Maybe they will take it to RL levels. When you don't know the person on the other side of the screen and just how far they are willing to go the fear is still very REAL. So please do not try and say it isn't.

Same thing here, I've had someone do that to me as well where they've threatened my life, not here on swtor, but elsewhere and yes it is very scary and very real but trying to get people to understand that is a chore and that's how arguments and the toxicity starts. It's like can some people not help themselves? Who is forcing them to come into these topics like they are and start all this? No one. Sheesh people... many of us in this topic are trying to deal with a real problem in the game if you don't agree fine, no one is forcing you to come in here and reply and if you aren't going to contribute to the conversation then why post? How in anyway is that irrational to take some responsibility for yourself and not reply to a topic you don't agree with? Not that hard folks, let those who are trying to be understanding and trying to help actually help stop flooding the topics with unhelpful things.

Edited September 18, 2017 by DarthEnrique

[IoNonSoEVero]

I have had actual death threats (not SWTOR, elsewhere) and I can tell you they are scary as f*ck. To the point where you are SCARED to go outside or leave your curtains open in fear that the person might actually be serious -- and have found out where you live. So you can't say its different because it's not. The fear is real if its words on a screen or words IRL or a letter in the mailbox. Its still equally scary as.

 

Online stalking is also equally scary as... because you just never know how far that person will take it and if they get your RL details. Maybe they will take it to RL levels. When you don't know the person on the other side of the screen and just how far they are willing to go the fear is still very REAL. So please do not try and say it isn't.

 

I've unfortunately had the same experience (again, outside of SWTOR) and yes, it's beyond frightening. It HAS to be taken seriously if someone makes a direct threat of physical harm or death. At the very least even in a game like this there should be zero tolerance toward making a violent threat against another player's person via whisper or email.