Cjezka Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Just hit 50 with my Vanguard today and i felt that i need some advice from other vanguard players. Some people here on the forums talk about 2.5k stock strike crits and so on, while the highest i can remember was like 1,4k (it often crits for under 1k) . Everything else starts at 50 (Hammershot, LOL) and gets up to 1k on a lucky day. Some classes i seem not to even tickle. Had this sith take me down to 30% of my health with his lightnings when i got him down to 90% (again, lol), so survivability seems not to go up as much as your damage goes down. Do people really crit that high in pvp or are they pulling this out of their butts. I really start to think about dropping my trooper altogether, because that damage is just laughable. I do not want to burst people down, I understand it is still a tank spec, but the damage should at least be high enough so i actually have a chance to kill someone in under 30 minutes. Beeing ignored in pvp just because you hit like Steven Hawking wielding a wet Noodle is really depressing. p.s. if you are under lvl 50 (the class / damage changes alot after 30-40) or if you intend to answer with "you're doing it wrong herp derp" don't even bother replying, I really need a serious answer on this one and can't handle trolls right now, as my blood is still boiling from the last warzone match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waron Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Try getting a PvP DPS set and play with that for a while, then combine them for a set you like the most. Ggetting accuracy up to par, aswell as other DPS stats. Also current shielding formula means that both shield ratings just suck unless you get a lot of it, so I'm swapping the pieces with shield stuff on for the DPS equivalents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waron Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 How much less damage per second do you think you're doing compared to a full dps char (vanguard assault or any other class really) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clucker Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Yeah I just hit 40 and I have noticed it. Even doing PvE leveling it seems really slow, and really seems like I'm limited on skills that make sense to use. PvP is the same, I feel your pain. Thinking about trying out one of the other trees though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corran Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 you arent going to see much of a difference if you spec into one of the dps trees. fact is vanguard damage from aim scaling is very poor. anyone claiming a 2.5k stockstrike crit i think is exaggerating substantially. this slowdown is why when i hit 47 i couldnt handle it anymore and started playing other classes. i'd go empire if it wasn't a 5:1 ratio of empire vs. republic on my server. one can only stand so much huttball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjezka Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 How much less damage per second do you think you're doing compared to a full dps char (vanguard assault or any other class really) Can't really say, it shows my dps in warzones, but i taunt, switch shields around etc. so that doesn't really say anything. It's the 1on1 fights where the subpar damage compared to survivability becomes most visible. I remember that this was not the case in my 30's, where i often was on par with all the other classes with damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waron Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The drop in performance is very normal once people get closer to 50, many find ways to compensate for this. Getting bigger guns is very popular, or just wait it out. I hear it gets better after 50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waron Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Would be very interesting to know the amount of damage % we give up for survivability, both for gear and spec. But bioware keeps forcing us to play like it's 2005 with no mods etc .. cause it will ruin the story ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjezka Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Just had another encounter with an imperial agent on tattoine..... no chance -.- He just outdamages my pittyful damage and even has time to kill my companion. Someone want to buy my account? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhak Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) As a PT with lots of experience in Shield Tech I can tell you all that your answer is probably what stats you're choosing on your gear. Pre-50 tanking stats are pretty much entirely worthless. So long as you're full tank spec in gear similar to your level, you will easily be able to absorb enough damage for a regular or even fairly bad healer to keep you alive in PvE. Therefore, sacrifice all of your shield/abs/defensive stats for crit/power/surge. I never once even tried to grab defensive stats while I leveled as shield-tech unless a piece dropped and nobody else wanted it. I took all the offensive gear made for mercenaries or DPS PTs; I ran with a guild and was never ninjaing loot from anybody who needed it. And I did damn fine damage as tank spec, in both PvE and PvP. In PvP Jet Charge/Rocket Punch/Rail Shot/Heat Blast nearly always took my opponent down by about a third of their health, and the fight had barely just begun. I'm fairly certain I've never lost a single 1v1 fight as Shield-Tech spec in pvp, not to any class. Are you using your interrupts liberally? You'll never beat a caster or healer unless you're slapping him in the face every time every time his fingers start to sparkle. A good tank PT/VG in DPS stats is a very nasty character to face, I do believe you've just been playing in the wrong gear and not using all your skills to their fullest potential (no offense intended). Although I will add 2.5k SS crits is a bit high. My highest was a 2k RP crit with a 300 crit from the IGC proc, but that was at level 46 against a level 18 sentinel and I had the red attack buff up. You sure wont be popping out that damage willy-nilly. Edited December 29, 2011 by Mhak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanutabc Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) I'm regretting getting 8 pieces of the pvp tank gear. Usually linger around 300k damage and a fair amount of protection along with high objective score and few deaths. Very rarely get those 2.5k medals but those 2.5k shockstrikes are no myth. Guess when the situation is right (buffs and the damage bonus) and a possibly debuffed opponent. Granted I did try 5/5/31 to have a play about and found it rather fun, but made me notice how much less survivability it has. Rather curious to how shield spec would do in full DPS gear now myself. Edited December 29, 2011 by peanutabc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjezka Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Thanks for the answers so far. I got lucky today and already bought 3 pieces of tier 2 tank gear. If i really just have the wrong gear, I would hate to throw that away and farm again :-( I noticed, that the different sets have the same amount of aim, the only difference is, that you trade defensive stats for power. Is power that important to make such a huge difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bliapis Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Ditch all the +def and +shield mods for +aim/crit/power and you will see your damage grow by quite a bit. Since L30 and upwards the +def/+shield mods come available which we favor to augment our tank capability which essentially cripples our damage. a differnt set with damage mods will get you where u wanna be in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanutabc Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the answers so far. I got lucky today and already bought 3 pieces of tier 2 tank gear. If i really just have the wrong gear, I would hate to throw that away and farm again :-( I noticed, that the different sets have the same amount of aim, the only difference is, that you trade defensive stats for power. Is power that important to make such a huge difference? And don't do what I did and buy eliminators gear. has a commando set bonus. Wish they showed on the vendor screen. Maybe someone will say do my research but they should be viewable from in game. only took me an almost full tank set and numerous other artifacts/offhands before realising I want a full set of dps gear as tank survivability is better, it is still rather underwhelming. Edited December 29, 2011 by peanutabc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjezka Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Thanks again. I just opened a ticket and asked if they would take the items back for the tokens I invested. Hope they implement the wow-solution soon where you can just sell it within 2 hours and get everything back. /crossfingers Guess it really is the wrong gear then, have been farming tank-gear only so far while questing and I leveld with a buddy of mine, so I guess the drop in dps wasn't that noticeable since he did all the damage. I'll keep you informed how it turned out, wish me luck -) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaoogaa Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 1v1 vs a sorc you should very rarely lose. Storm + interrupt + surge + interrupt + cryo + interrupt + storm. Use relics, medpaks, shields, everything. Shield spec is about controling the situation and grinding someone down. Skip defense on gear and make sure it has shield rating and absorption. The classes you are doing to have trouble with are the ones that have attacks that ignore some or all of your armor. Learn who to kite and who to facepunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxros Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 This post has left me confused a little, it makes perfect sense that you do crap dps in tanking gear but but surley we should have two sets of gear ? one tanking for pve and one for dps/pvp ? or is the tanking gear totally worthless even in pve/raids etc ? Im only new tank ( lvl 11 ) but my intention was to beef up in total tank gear for pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xBuzz Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I'm 50, rank 53 shield spec vanguard with most of the pvp tank pieces. In the last couple of days I have been getting the 2.5k medal most matches, so indeed it is possible. Vanguard shield spec damage isn't the best, and it shouldn't be. We have so much survivability, it doesn't really matter. Battle focus does alot to increase your dps when you need it, and I also have one of the dps trinkets. With those 2 dps buffs running and your shield, smoke grenade, adrenaline rush, rakata medpac (instant medal, sometimes 2), your aoe stuns etc. You are pretty much immortal for those 15 seconds, and you're pumping out alot of pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xBuzz Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 This post has left me confused a little, it makes perfect sense that you do crap dps in tanking gear but but surley we should have two sets of gear ? one tanking for pve and one for dps/pvp ? or is the tanking gear totally worthless even in pve/raids etc ? Im only new tank ( lvl 11 ) but my intention was to beef up in total tank gear for pve. The tank gear from pvp is more than viable in pve. I've been tanking hardcores no problem in my pvp tank set. The pve equivalent, you lose expertise (useless in pve) and maybe gain some endurance, accuracy etc, nothing game breaking. Also the pve gear grind is alot worse than the pvp one, so worth getting the pvp set. There's 4 pvp sets for troopers healing, 2 dps sets with slighly different stats, and tank set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeromentor Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 With a Vanguard Shield-spec at 50 with some PvP gear (nothing crazy) I can say they need some serious PvP DPS gear to get that. What do I mean? My PvP L40 gear with blue 50 mods I hit around 1100 with my stockstrike (rounding around that number, keep in mind I'm trying to build a purple barrel for my rifle, so I expect it to be much higher later). With 50% more damage from crits that doesn't get near 2.5k. So a shield-spec would need to use PvP DPS gear to get those numbers, or turn all their enchancement mods into crit-rating mods. As is, they'd have to be heavily buffed, have many or all aim datacrons (and maybe cunning as well?) and a ton of crit+ gear to do that kind of damage with stockstrike. Expertise only raises percent of PvP damage by a little over 1% per gear, so hitting 18% or so wouldn't raise your damage that much. I don't know if that stacks with crit rating damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xBuzz Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) With a Vanguard Shield-spec at 50 with some PvP gear (nothing crazy) I can say they need some serious PvP DPS gear to get that. What do I mean? My PvP L40 gear with blue 50 mods I hit around 1100 with my stockstrike (rounding around that number, keep in mind I'm trying to build a purple barrel for my rifle, so I expect it to be much higher later). With 50% more damage from crits that doesn't get near 2.5k. So a shield-spec would need to use PvP DPS gear to get those numbers, or turn all their enchancement mods into crit-rating mods. As is, they'd have to be heavily buffed, have many or all aim datacrons (and maybe cunning as well?) and a ton of crit+ gear to do that kind of damage with stockstrike. Expertise only raises percent of PvP damage by a little over 1% per gear, so hitting 18% or so wouldn't raise your damage that much. I don't know if that stacks with crit rating damage. Wrong, you don't need pvp dps gear. I have only pvp tanking gear, and my stock strike crits for over 2k alot of the time. With battle focus and critical+surge trinket, my crit rises to 48%, with 80% multiplier. Then you add on 30% crit from talents for stock strike and it has 89% chance to crit also. Edited December 29, 2011 by xBuzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxros Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 p.s. if you are under lvl 50 (the class / damage changes alot after 30-40) or if you intend to answer with "you're doing it wrong herp derp" don't even bother replying, I really need a serious answer on this one and can't handle trolls right now, as my blood is still boiling from the last warzone match. <Hand OP a Beer> You should take time out if a PVP match actually induces these kind of feelings So then the overall answer is a Tank = Tank ?. Actually although I hate to refer to "that other game" I remeber when a certain tank spec got buffed and was out damaging any other warrior spec, good times for the tanked up raiders in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjezka Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 So then the overall answer is a Tank = Tank ?. Well, the problem is not that a tank is a tank, the problem was, that the damage loss by taking tanking gear far outweights the survivability gain, since (as I found out the hard way) our base stat aim seems to scale very poorly, compared to the secondary stats that can not be found on tanking gear. So in a pvp aspect, it really seems that the more tanking gear you get, the lower your chances are of actually winning a fight. Which, to me, seems counterintuitive and broken, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texoc Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 found on youtube... there you go... cracy damage potential... + quick look at his stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calligann Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) dont get fooled shield spec is a tank spec it even written defense on the tree , you have to switch to plasma cell to see a great increase in damage with the right tree ( assault). texoc the guy deal a lot of damage for a ion cell , he must have a big *** crit multiplyer Edited December 29, 2011 by calligann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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