Why Was Oricon Never Made Solo-Friendly?

[JattaGin]

Seeker Droid last mission is soloable

 

How so? I wouldn't know how, but I would be very happy if it is possible. I still have not been able to finish this mission on imperial side since... when was it introduced first... 2012 or 2013. I asked so often about it. Nobody wants to do it.

 

This is the funny thing and my 2 cents: All you guys telling that you should group up and that this is a MMO. Tell me: Why do I find no one to group up then? I mean, randomly. Don't answer with: get a guild. I have that. I talk about casuals here.

 

You seriously think that you get a group for DF or DP just like that? Maybe on the top 2 servers or so, I don't know. I have not one single time in all these years got an OPs pop if I queued for it without guildies. Not one single time did group finder get me a group for whatever OP. That's why I stopped using it altogether.

 

Imagine you are a casual, you finished the Oricon solo content and then you want to wrap it up. Guess what: You are stuck. You don't find a group, even if you want to. That's how it is. Sure, you can go to the fleet and then announce for 3 hours that you LFG. Eventually you might get one. 4 hours after you finished Oricon's solo missions, you go into the OPs. And then you wipe at the first boss and two players leave the group. And yes, things like that happen. Don't deny it. What kind of game experience is this? Is this motivating to continue playing? No. And then the player who experiences it, drifts away from the game and we get a vicious circle. This is exactly what has been happening for years.

 

Another thing you have to take into account is the time: OPs usually form in the evening. I often work in the evening, so I am left out, for example, of my guild OPs runs. And should I come home e. g. at 23:00 and the OPs run is just about to start, I don't have the power to do an OP which always takes double as long as the guildies claim it would take.

 

I have only seen the ending of Oricon once. On my main, a commando medic. I would really like to see the imperial ending, too. But after all these years, I still wasn't able to do DP and DF on imperial side. And the reason is not that I am a bad raider or an unsocial solo player.

 

TL;DR: Oricon's ending has to be made solo-friendly.

[feylyndiira]

You have missed out hearing from that rule?! Like really? This whole topic is about discussing this EXISTING rule while we speak. Thanks for letting me act as Mr. Obvious since you ignore this very fact...

And again, Oricon is NOT even a main storyline but a great one imho. It would be piss poor if it wouldn't lead to an Operation or 2 of them.

 

It's not a rule of the game, nor it is "fact"...it is apparently *your* rule that you feel that everyone should follow, or else we're considered "whiny babies" (I'm guessing "snowflake" is another favorite insult in your repertoire as well.)

 

I never said it was a *main* storyline...only that it was a storyline. Way to completely ignore everything else I wrote in favor of just coming up with one more strawman excuse to try and sound condescending. And AGAIN, since I seem to have to be "Mrs. Obvious" to you: No one is asking for the Ops to be taken away, only to have an alternative for those who don't want to do them. Was SoR "piss poor" too because it actually gave an option not to do the Op?"

[Khaleg]

It's not a rule of the game, nor it is "fact"...it is apparently *your* rule that you feel that everyone should follow, or else we're considered "whiny babies" (I'm guessing "snowflake" is another favorite insult in your repertoire as well.)

 

I never said it was a *main* storyline...only that it was a storyline. Way to completely ignore everything else I wrote in favor of just coming up with one more strawman excuse to try and sound condescending. And AGAIN, since I seem to have to be "Mrs. Obvious" to you: No one is asking for the Ops to be taken away, only to have an alternative for those who don't want to do them. Was SoR "piss poor" too because it actually gave an option not to do the Op?"

 

Please think at least for 10 cents before posting. Thank you...

 

You face that existing rule, fact or however we call it right now, right? Nothing more to add to so much iggorance and cognitive dissonance.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Khaleg

[Ylliarus]

To the OPS people being so against this idea please explain to me how this would impact you negatively? Why are you so against it? Because I see nothing in this approach that would impact you negatively.

 

"It will make people do the solo version more than the OPS so we will lose people." Wrong, the people choosing the solo version are very likely the people that wouldn't be joining for the raid anyway so you won't be missing out on players. The OPS still will be in the Group Finder, it still will be accessible just as it was now. During the story arc of Oricon there simply will be an extra option to finish it on your own. But outside of that nothing changes for you.

 

"It's rewarding players for not grouping up." Wrong, would we get the same gear drops as you? No. Would we get the same achievements as you? No. Would we be in any way rewarded more than you are currently? No. There simply would be the option to finish the story in a solo way without any extra rewards or anything that is remotely considered to be a reward. Raiding still will have more incentive due to gear drops, achievements etc. again it has not a single negative impact on you.

 

"You'll be playing the game wrong." Wrong, raiding is ONE OF MANY ways to play this game not the one an only. MMO means multiple players online at the same time in the same online environment, it does not mean that not playing it in group content is a violation of any rule or code. Those who want Oricon to be solo are just as much paying customers as you are who want to raids and do ops. We have the same rights as you have and are not lesser in any way. Show me the rule from Bioware, or the code of conduct they made that says "if you're not doing ops or raids you are playing the game wrong". Where do they state that? Until then I will say for a third time you will not be impacted negatively because you can still play your way and delude yourself if you want your way is the only right way.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Rabenschwinge]

I would agree with the OP. A solution similar to Yavin IV would be nice, the operation itself should, of course, not be soloable, but there should be a way to lead the story ark to a conclusion without engaging in an operation, similar to how it was done on Yavin IV.

 

I've actually even done this particular operation before, but somehow it didn't count. Maybe because it was hard mode, I don't know. I don't like doing operations, I say that when I join a guild, but I do have credit for a few in Nightmare Mode from back when I still tried it, and I can help out if the guild needs another player. (I know my abilities and I am smart enough to not stand in the stupid without needing to know up front when and where it will come. I don't need to know an operation to do my share of the damage and avoid unnecessary damage, but sometimes you just need to know the mechanics.)

 

It felt a little like being cheated when I fist did it. I fought through all the stuff before, which wasn't easy in relatively outdated gear. And then I get told: From hereon you need to do an operation. Well, thanks for nothing, I thought. Couldn't you just have told me that up in front, so I wouldn't have bothered with it in the first place?

 

Well, I might have done it anyway, because the dailies were a really good opportunity to grind at that time. Now the only shameful think about is that the mobs virtually fall over on their own when you get near them. I believe the weekly was one of the very few ways to acquire at least a few ultimate commendations / data crystals other than doing operations. It would have taken me dozens of weeks to accumulate even a single one piece, but better than no chance at all.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Rabenschwinge

[feylyndiira]

Please think at least for 10 cents before posting. Thank you...

 

You face that existing rule, fact or however we call it right now, right? Nothing more to add to so much iggorance and cognitive dissonance.

 

Nothing more for me to add since you can't seem to be capable of addressing any of my other points in favor of focusing solely on your opinion about the "fact/rule" bit (and for gods' sake, learn the definition of "cognitive dissonance" before trying to toss it around as an insult....and even moreso, stop displaying it yourself.)

[Khaleg]

This misapprehension has plagued MMOs since the dawn of the genre. Irritates me no end, especially when used as a "weapon" in a discussion. I remember the battles in EQ over the whole "must raid" mentality and how, slowly slowly, change came about when dev houses realised that, as you said, "we grew up" and no longer could devote the time to all that was required to truly raid (grouping as well...content that required grouping in order to progress). The wise dev houses listened. And the bickering about what "MMO" means has been going on ever since.

 

I wish folk could respect both sides of the issue. Like grouping? By all means go for it! But gating content essential to story progression behind grouping is a bad thing.

 

EverQuest involded raids with 30-50 people if I rememebr right. That's a total different thing than nowadays 8 man, or even only 4-6 man raids. The effort for EverQuest raids was over the top, no question, but 4-8 man raids are not too much too ask for and easy to organize. Apples and oranges...

[Ylliarus]

Please think at least for 10 cents before posting. Thank you...

 

You face that existing rule, fact or however we call it right now, right? Nothing more to add to so much iggorance and cognitive dissonance.

 

Where is this rule? Where in the Code of Conduct or Terms and Conditions does it state that not raiding or doing group content is a violation of the rules? Where does Bioware state "doing group content and raids is a rule"? Please show me irrefutable proof and I will relent and submit. Until then I will vehemently agree that the rule you have to play group content or else you're playing this game wrong is a made up rule by OPS and raiders who want to coerce people into their way of playing.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Khaleg]

It's not a rule that one must group. In some areas and some lines of progression it is the only option but it's not a rule of the game. It's a choice and should remain so in order that those who like to group, can and those who don't, need not. The only time that bothers me is when it prevents progress in a quest line (unless it's made clear at the start of the line that an OP or what have you WILL be required).

 

Well, obviously to the extreme...it's in fact not a choice but a must -do for certain aspects of the game... you might also think about it for 2 cents before posting.

[Ylliarus]

Well, obviously to the extreme...it's in fact not a choice but a must -do for certain aspects of the game... you might also think about it for 2 cents before posting.

 

Show. Me. The. Rule. Where does it stand? How is it a fact? How do you explain the solo content in this game if what you say is a rule? Also, the "think two cents about this before posting" is something that only and solely applies to you and with how many times you have repeated it I would have expected for you to practice what you preach.

 

I repeat, where in the Terms and Conditions or the Code of Conduct does it say it's a rule? Show. Me. Where does Bioware say that doing group content and raiding is a rule in this game? Show. Me.

[Khaleg]

Show. Me. The. Rule. Where does it stand? How is it a fact? How do you explain the solo content in this game if what you say is a rule? Also, the "think two cents about this before posting" is something that only and solely applies to you and with how many times you have repeated it I would have expected for you to practice what you preach.

 

I repeat, where in the Terms and Conditions or the Code of Conduct does it say it's a rule? Show. Me. Where does Bioware say that doing group content and raiding is a rule in this game? Show. Me.

 

That's way too stupid to give an answer to. WAY too stupid. I can't even believe that someone is that incaple of thinking and to realize that this is a very fact right now. Or when and how did you solo the finish of Oricon lately?

[Ylliarus]

That's way too stupid to give an answer to. WAY too stupid. I can't even believe that someone is that incaple of thinking and to realize that this is a very fact right now. Or when and how did you solo the finish of Oricon lately?

 

You call me stupid instead of answering my question? Of providing a sensible counter argument? You resort to Trump-rhetorics instead of discussing this with me in a meaningful way just so you can be right. What you claim me to be you are yourself... but you refuse to see that.

 

In the subject of law and judicial proceedings there is a rule, the accuser has to prove the defendant did what they did. The same applies to here, you claim it's a rule. Prove to me it is. You won't, because you very well know that looking into the Code of Conduct or Terms and Conditions will show to you there is no such rule. So instead you call me stupid because you know you are wrong but you just have to be right. I call that Trump-rhetorics.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Khaleg]

You call me stupid instead of answering my question? Of providing a sensible counter argument? You resort to Trump-rhetorics instead of discussing this with me in a meaningful way just so you can be right. What you claim me to be you are yourself... but you refuse to say that.

 

In the subject of law and judicial proceedings there is a rule, the accuser has to prove the defendant did what they did. The same applies to here, you claim it's a rule. Prove to me it is. You won't, because you very well know that looking into the Code of Conduct or Terms and Conditions will show to you there is no such rule. So instead you call me stupid because you know you are wromg but you just have to be right. I call that Trump-rhetorics.

 

I said this answer was stupid, not you. And I've answered your question. Do you even bother to read precisely?

Edited August 30, 2017 by Khaleg

[Ylliarus]

I said this answer was stupid, not you. And I've answered your question. Do even bother to read precisely?

 

Yes you called my answer stupid and referred back to the subject of Oricon and its lack of solo alternatives which is the very subject of this thread, which didn't provide a sensible response at all. For your convenience this is what you said:

 

That's way too stupid to give an answer to. WAY too stupid. I can't even believe that someone is that incaple of thinking and to realize that this is a very fact right now. Or when and how did you solo the finish of Oricon lately?

 

But alright, I will indulge you and be the grown up in this conversation; explain to me then why Yavin 4 had a solo option? The raid was there they could have forced us to do it if it was a rule as you claim. But what did they do? They gave us a solo alternative. The Flashpoints like those prior to and in Shadow of Revan, group content, according to you it's a rule we have to play group content so we shouldn't have gotten a solo alternative. But what did we get? A solo alternative. Iokath, the OPS with the gods of zakuul should have been a part of finishing that story arc in order to continue to Umbara if playing in a group was a rule. The OPS was made optional to the story and can be entirely ignored for story progression.

 

Explain now, with this information given to you to me, how solo playing this game would be violation of a rule set up by Bioware? How will you reasonably argue that your rule of having to play in groups is a rule made by Bioware?

Edited August 30, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Khaleg]

BTW, I have enough of this pointless discusion where people do not even bother or have the decency to read precisely. That is matter of basic manner in communication. But well, I say it with the most superficial words possible from Michael Jackson: "I love you all!" :-) Edited August 30, 2017 by Khaleg

[Ylliarus]

BTW, I have enough of this pointless discusion where people do not even bother or have the decency to read precisely. That is matter of basic manner in communication. But well, I say it with the most superficial words possible from Michael Jackson: "I love you all!" :-)

 

Ah my response made too much sense after all so you opt out since you can't reasonably defend your arguments. Very well, but it's enough proof to me that your rule is made up and you are unable to defend your claim that it is a rule made by Bioware.

 

Nonetheless, I wish you all the best, but also have a piece of advice for you: think two cents before you enter a discussion and make claims you can't reasonably defend

Edited August 30, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Rabenschwinge]

Well, that operations runners would be jealously guarding whatever the they think is their exclusive privilege, even though it's about something as story ark which is in the largest part not operation driven, and not a reward, currency or exclusive achievement, nor a pure operations story ark, was to be expected. It doesn't mean anything. Edited August 30, 2017 by Rabenschwinge

[Ylliarus]

Well, that operations runners would be jealously guarding whatever the they think is their exclusive privilege, even though it's about something as story ark which is in the largest part not operation driven, and not a reward, currency or exclusive achievement, nor a pure operations story ark, was to be expected. It doesn't mean anything.

 

Yes, they just have to be right and we are all wrong because they said so. I haven't seen any reasonable and objective argument to this point that proves to me Oricon should not get a solo alternative. They provide arguments along the line of "I see it that way so it is a fact" but whenever I ask if they can back up their supposed rule by quoting it from the Code of Conduct or Terms and Conditions or a post made by Bioware, they fall eerily silent... they instead start calling me stupid, short-sighted or a whining baby... or others who share my point of view. But an objective and reasonable counter argument? Nope, that they fail to provide.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Rabenschwinge]

Unfortunately I doubt Bioware will put up with ever actually changing that. To make up an alternative, as they did in Yavin 4 would take some development time. But it wouldn't be anything really knew, and Oricon itself is old, the dailies are a walk in the park. From an economical perspective, the gain in attractivity of the game does not warrant the investment. They can't really sell it as something "exciting and new", thus it is likely that I will simply remain the way it is.

[Ylliarus]

Unfortunately I doubt Bioware will put up with ever actually changing that. To make up an alternative, as they did in Yavin 4 would take some development time. But it wouldn't be anything really knew, and Oricon itself is old, the dailies are a walk in the park. From an economical perspective, the gain in attractivity of the game does not warrant the investment. They can't really sell it as something "exciting and new", thus it is likely that I will simply remain the way it is.

 

Then they and we shouldn't consider it as something new but a fix to this game. A little bug, if you will. They did go back and fix broken stuff in the vanilla game or anything that came before Kotfe and Kotet, so if they would consider the lack of a solo alternative in Oricon something broken they could sell it to us as a fix. Also, they did in the past include solo modes for various flashpoints, if they did that then why would it suddenly be too much work to include a solo alternative to Oricon?

[DieAlteHexe]

EverQuest involded raids with 30-50 people if I rememebr right. That's a total different thing than nowadays 8 man, or even only 4-6 man raids. The effort for EverQuest raids was over the top, no question, but 4-8 man raids are not too much too ask for and easy to organize. Apples and oranges...

 

Aye, it did. However the same issues (albeit on a smaller scale) exist in any other MMO when it comes to "raiding". Again...I'm happy there is group/OP/Uprising etc.) content. In fact, I think it's a great idea. What I do not like is having a storyline that started soloable all of a sudden have a "must group" element to either finish it or progress. Aside from that...hey, whatever floats someone's boat although it would be nice if some of those who enjoy grouping up would stop sneering so much.

[DieAlteHexe]

Well, obviously to the extreme...it's in fact not a choice but a must -do for certain aspects of the game... you might also think about it for 2 cents before posting.

 

Is there a particular reason you're being such a snotty person about this? Or do you just dislike being debated with? Either way, I'll be taking my 2 cents and spending it where it'll potentially do some good (e.g. with someone who knows how to have a discussion without resorting to jibes and insults).

 

Have a day.

[Ylliarus]

Is there a particular reason you're being such a snotty person about this? Or do you just dislike being debated with? Either way, I'll be taking my 2 cents and spending it where it'll potentially do some good (e.g. with someone who knows how to have a discussion without resorting to jibes and insults).

 

Have a day.

 

As you may read from my own discussion with this person then I sadly do think they prefer to be a snotty person (not meaning to insult them of course) rather than have a sensible discussion. I tried providing reasonable arguments to the discussion table to have a meaningful conversation but instead my questions/arguments were called stupid and I supposedly don't have the ability to think according to this person...

[masterceil]

Then they and we shouldn't consider it as something new but a fix to this game. A little bug, if you will. They did go back and fix broken stuff in the vanilla game or anything that came before Kotfe and Kotet, so if they would consider the lack of a solo alternative in Oricon something broken they could sell it to us as a fix. Also, they did in the past include solo modes for various flashpoints, if they did that then why would it suddenly be too much work to include a solo alternative to Oricon?

 

Except it's not a bug - the Dread Master story arc is working as intended, with six Operations and one brief solo side mission telling the story. If anything, it's the solo part that's the outlier here.

 

Flashpoints have simple mechanics that can be completely ignored in Story/Solo mode. Bioware made them soloable by the simple inclusion of an overpowered droid that just stands there smashing on the boss and occasionally throwing out 25k heals. That works for Flashpoints. It does not work for Operations.

 

Simple as they are, Dread Fortress and Dread Palace have mechanics that cannot be ignored. You're not asking Bioware to go back and tweak a few numbers or even remap an area to fix visual glitches or whatever minor sht you're referring to. You're literally asking them to dedicate hundreds of man-hours and corresponding resources to develop entirely new gameplay to resolve a four-year-old story, for solo players.

 

On the first page of this thread, someone inferred that putting out a solo version of the Dread Ops would bring back more players than a new Operation - I find the idea utterly laughable. Even if a thousand players came back to see how this side mission ended, what reason would they have to stick around after finishing it? Gods from the Machine has far more potential for bringing back old players - and retaining them - and getting a new audience into the game.

 

A soloable version of the conclusion of the Dread Master arc would be nice - but so would having seven figures in my bank account. Neither are particularly likely, and I'd much rather Bioware move forward with Gods from the Machine and other new content than go back and rehash content half a decade old so a few hundred people too lazy to watch the cutscenes on YouTube can get their fix.

[Lammia]

Why the jeff does it still say heroic 4 on it then......oh right, Biower. Guess I'll do it then.

 

Because it was never changed to be soloable, power creep made it soloable. You know, the reason why they keep nerfing everything to stay on target, so soon we'll be able to solo Operations