Why Was Oricon Never Made Solo-Friendly?

[supertimtaf]

Different strokes and all that.

 

I've only done Oricon with 2 characters and swore never to do so again. I know what it's like and I don't feel I'm missing overmuch to avoid it. Glad it's there for those who enjoy it and the dailies but I'd rather clean toilets than go back there.

 

I completely agree with you there, the planet itself isn't... appealing to me. It sure has A LOT of work put into it, with secret codex and all but I don't really like it.... even though I'm a fan of the two operations, who clearly where the best of what BW could offer in multiplayer content, and still are imo.

 

Well, glad to have talked a bit but it's like... 6am where I live and I still didn't get any sleep '-'

I'll have to report the debate to another time, hope to cya in game

[DieAlteHexe]

I completely agree with you there, the planet itself isn't... appealing to me. It sure has A LOT of work put into it, with secret codex and all but I don't really like it.... even though I'm a fan of the two operations, who clearly where the best of what BW could offer in multiplayer content, and still are imo.

 

Well, glad to have talked a bit but it's like... 6am where I live and I still didn't get any sleep '-'

I'll have to report the debate to another time, hope to cya in game

 

Coming up to six thirty here, sun is coming up and it's going to be a very hot day. Bleech.

 

Yeah, Oricon is well crafted, I concur there. I just dislike it. Wasn't crazy about Ziost either but for some reason it flowed better. Ah well, hope you sleep well.

[Cirran]

So we have two groups of people, one group gets extra rewards for playing the way they want and the other gets told "your playing the wrong way", and does not get extra rewards for playing the way they want. How does that even make a lick of sense?

 

Cirran

[fushnchips]

End of the day this game is an MMO and content is designed for people to play with friends and guild members I agree how they done the Oricon story line it was perfect and it actually made people group up just not for the story but also PvP battles that would almost make your pc explode :/

[DieAlteHexe]

So we have two groups of people, one group gets extra rewards for playing the way they want and the other gets told "your playing the wrong way", and does not get extra rewards for playing the way they want. How does that even make a lick of sense?

 

Cirran

 

It does if the goal is "group up"...to encourage people to socialise and work together.

 

That's fine, I don't mind a bit. As long as I can experience the main story without having to group up, I'm good. I don't care if those who do "get more" unless that somehow impedes my progress/enjoyment (so far, with a couple exceptions) it hasn't.

[Khaleg]

I don't want to spend time to find 7 other ppl, waiting for them to all come, endure all the afk/drama and focus on the fighting instead of story.

 

Especially since SWTOR has strict trinity requirement.

 

Well, then here is a basic rule of life for you to learn: If you are not willing to do "thing A" you very often can't have "thing B". That won't change and even a game catering to this cheap attitude to wish to have everything in the way you please and basically on a silver plate is wrong imho. Do it or live with that you can't have it, period. That easy. It's not like the game is asking you to explain the general relativity theory to a critical audience, it's just asking you to take part in a raid where the other 4-7 people will do almost 100 % the work in your first run.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Khaleg

[Slowpokeking]

Well, then here is a basic rule of life for you to learn: If you are not willing to do "thing A" you very often can't have "thing b". That won't change and even a game catering to this cheap attitude to wish to have everything in the way you please is wrong imho. Do it or live with that you can't have it, period. That easy. It's not like the game is asking you to explain the general realitvity theory to a critical audience, it's asking you to take part in a raid where the other 4-7 people will do almost 100 % the work in your first run.

 

Actually it has changed, the fps got solo mode, especially the Prelude of SoR, it once only got tactic mode and you had to queue up for it and later solo mode was out.

 

See the change here? This game's playerbase is getting smaller, even on Harbinger I could feel it easily. It's not wise to ask ppl to find 7 ppl plus the strict trinity requirement to finish a story, no.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Slowpokeking

[DieAlteHexe]

Well, then here is a basic rule of life for you to learn: If you are not willing to do "thing A" you very often can't have "thing b". That won't change and even a game catering to this cheap attitude to wish to have everything in the way you please is wrong imho. Do it or live with that you can't have it, period. That easy. It's not like the game is asking you to explain the general realitvity theory to a critical audience, it's asking you to take part in a raid where the other 4-7 people will do almost 100 % the work in your first run.

 

Absolutely agree except for the shot about "cheap attitude". To each their own. I've no objections to group content at all, glad it's there for those who enjoy it. I only get cranky when forced and that's a rarity, thankfully.

[Khaleg]

Actually it has changed, the fps got solo mode, especially the Prelude of SoR, it once only got tactic mode and you had to queue up for it and later solo mode was out.

 

See the change here? This game's playerbase is getting smaller, even on Harbinger I could feel it easily. It's not wise to ask ppl to find 7 ppl plus the strict trinity requirement to finish a story, no.

 

I think you didn't understand the core point of my post. I didn't say there are no changes happening to the game. I said there are some things in life that will never change, that is the fact that you can't have everything, especially when you are stubborn and not willing enough to take the neccessary steps to obtain these things. That is good and should also be reflected by a game and a game should not be catering to the cheap attitude "I want it now and in the way I want to". Again. SM OPs are cakewalks and some are often done with 4 people only. I think 6 people are suffcient for any SM OP if I'm not forgetting anything right now,

[Slowpokeking]

I think you didn't understand the core point of my post. I didn't say there are no changes happening to the game. I said there are some things in life that will never change, that is the fact that you can't have everything, especially when you are stubborn and not willing enough to take the neccessary steps to obtain these things. That is good and should also be reflected by a game and a game should not be catering to the cheap attitude "I want it now and in the way I want to". Again. SM OPs are cakewalks and some are often done with 4 people only. I think 6 people are suffcient for any SM OP if I'm not forgetting anything right now,

 

If it's not worthy to do it then ppl will dislike the game and leave, they use their $$$ to vote.

We pay our $$$ to enjoy, of course we have the right to ask for what we want. It's totally logical to be able to experience the story without having problem to group up. It's a cakewalk but it could take very long to find groups in low populated servers and had to endure the afk/drama/whatever. That's not a cool way to enjoy the story. I've gone through those ops many times but I really wish I could have enjoyed the story itself better rather than getting bothered by these.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Slowpokeking

[Tsillah]

The Dread Masters storyline is a pretty big deal in the Sith storylines, and Oricon is presented as a purple (main) quest. Not to mention they give you a number of solo cut scenes on Oricon before they spring the op requirement on you. The other purple quests are all able to be completed solo, including the flashpoints.

 

What a lot of people don't realise is that the story of the dread masters starts on the imperial side on Belsavis and then became the foundation for a storyline for OPERATIONS.

 

The following Operations are linked to the Dread Master story:

Karagga's Palace

Explosive Conflict

Terror from Beyond

Scum and Villainy

Dread Fortress

Dread Palace

 

That's most operations. These are all part of the Dread Master story and it's a storyline that supported the Operations.

 

If you're expecting all these to become soloable, I would consider that unreasonable.

 

Besides the only thing you miss is the boss fights. You go in and kill the dread masters. Story ended.

 

Just don't forget that the first Dread Master was killed in SaV. I hear no complaints about that.

 

The only difference is this...the SaV quest stands by itself. The Oricon quest chain was meant to bring more people into operations. Whether that worked or not is beside the point. I just don't see them putting major resources into making all these ops soloable.

 

It's part of an MMO. Sometimes you have to be able to..."let go".

[aerockyul]

In keeping with the current meta of the cartel market being the sole consistent focus of the game, they should bundle all cutscenes for each operation and related cutscenes tied to those operations and let us buy them. That way no raiders see filthy non-raiders getting loot or rewards that they didn't earn, EA gets more sucker money, and we might finally see an end to these same threads popping up every two weeks.

 

What's that? No incentive for hard-line story-only horrible-raid-awareness bad-gear-having plebs to do those operations with your raid groups or pug groups if all they have to do is pay for the cutscenes? Cutscenes you probably spacebarred through or contented yourself to watch other people's characters on YouTube? What's that? You're dying for more people to infest your group with no achievements (no your time-stamp isn't the right one. Doesn't count), no proof of being able to carry you, no "be geared" nonsense in bolstered content, no preternatural knowledge of fights they've never been able to participate in due to the raid community's gating efforts?

 

It's not like people are asking for the wings and the other material goods from these ops. It's an opportunity to watch content that you've spacebarred dozens of times yourself.

 

Or you can continue to suffer through nightmarish pugs with ill-equipped and ill-prepared story-hero cutscene tourists and rant and rage at Bioware because there aren't enough quality people to play with.

Edited August 30, 2017 by aerockyul

[merovejec]

Same thing with the Seeker Droid and Shroud quest. It was bad from the beginning.

 

Seeker Droid last mission is soloable, if you suck then get at least 1 friend to help. For Shroud the other 3 players dont need the mission, you just get 3 random ppl willing to help, like we said to u in other forums.

[merovejec]

I am sorry to say but at the current state of the game I cannot imagine the Devs coming back to this.

 

Look at what we are getting, 1 boss per 3 months and crapy story + fps. They are barely able to provide the new stuff they promise, not to mention going back to re-devolop old stuff. Oricon is fine as it is, you can 4man the bosses on Story mode and there were guilds willing to take ppl through it for free. If you que for it in group finder, you can explain the ppl the situation and even afk the ops, 7 ppl are not needed there on SM where you get bolster.

[Sundown]

Seeker Droid last mission is soloable, if you suck then get at least 1 friend to help. For Shroud the other 3 players dont need the mission, you just get 3 random ppl willing to help, like we said to u in other forums.

How can Seeker Droid be solo'ed? Wouldn't you get insta killed while carrying the "batteries" when the big add spawns?

 

Regarding the topic: while I agree that the general idea to bring people into operations is a good one and while I also agree that the operations are simple and the Dread Master arc is mostly tied to operations and not a main storyline (even though one of the best in game) I still think it is bad design to start a chain of missions solo just to have them lead to an operation. They did that better with Revan.

I would rather not have the stretched resources working on making this solable though, better just give people a terminal for the cutscenes of the operations or (even better) have the solo-player "wait outside" and just get a report on the results of the strike team that goes in...

[Khaleg]

If it's not worthy to do it then ppl will dislike the game and leave, they use their $$$ to vote.

We pay our $$$ to enjoy, of course we have the right to ask for what we want. It's totally logical to be able to experience the story without having problem to group up. It's a cakewalk but it could take very long to find groups in low populated servers and had to endure the afk/drama/whatever. That's not a cool way to enjoy the story. I've gone through those ops many times but I really wish I could have enjoyed the story itself better rather than getting bothered by these.

 

Well, I agree 100 % pure PUGs for OPs are usually crap if the core of the people is not already a team that knows each other, knows what they are doing, has Discord or TS, and is just filling open spaces. Join a guild or ask a guild if you can participate in one of their runs. It's that easy but you need to COMMUNICATE.

Me as raid and guild leader on one of the most dead servers out there (Jar'kai Sword) accept guests all the time. Of course also in the hope that they might like us and join, but it is not mandatory.

 

I totally disagree with the rest. The most loud crying babies who are also a minority should not get what they want but adapt instead. Games have rules, any game has, you can't ask in chess for the king to warp to the opposite side of the board either. Games without rules and things that need some skill are pointless, and again, there are only 3 solo contents in this game that involve ANY skill (maybe 4 if you count the KotfE/KotET story in Master mode and actually solo it without help from friends). The rest of the solo stuff is a joke with no challenge whatsoever, pointless and boring kindergarden gaming where you achieve nothing but watching cutscenes that just tell you that you are achieving something...without any challenge. That's sad.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Khaleg

[Ylliarus]

Some star wars fans are so anti-social and terrified of others. It's like if you say hello to them they might have a panic attack. Never understood what is so scary about group content. Games are actually fun to play with other people. Make some friends it's actually quite nice.

and before the reply of "but people are mean and yell at you for making a mistake" Oh boohoo. there is an ignore feature, plus I have played since release and can't even count on one hand the times someone raged at me for a mistake.

 

It seems you have not read my OP attentively, I said I have no qualms about group content, I love doing Flashpoints and Uprisings with other people. I PvP daily and most of the time when I am online in the game as it's my favourite things to do. Raids/OPS are a different kind of group content, where the pressure is a lot higher. You make s few mistakes and you have a group of people who are annoyed with you. That is not why I play this game, yes playing, where it is needed to have fun in order to call it playing. I have enough stress in real life I don't need even more stress from players who are moaning and groaning they won't finish an OPS in a specific timeframe because someone doing the raid for the first time isn't as skilled in the OPS as them. That's why I can't be bothered by it, I want to have fun when playing. It's also why I am also one of the few people in PvP Warzones that says at the end if our team loses "better next time peeps :)".

 

Before you say "then if you can't be bothered then you also shouldn't moan about having something not be solo-friendly", I would have agreed with you if it wasn't blocking story progression/finalization. Yes, there are cutscenes after the OPS on the Republic side even with quite a big revelation/choice. I have seen them on Youtube so don't go and tell me they aren't there. As paying customers we have the same amount of right to get to that as the paying customers who do raids and ops. If Bioware went down that road in Shadow of Revan with the Temple of Sacrifice raid then they also should do it for Oricon, very simple.

[feylyndiira]

 

I totally disagree with the rest. The most loud crying babies who are also a minority should not get what they want but adapt instead. Games have rules, any game has, you can't ask in chess for the king to warp to the opposite side of the board either. Games without rules and things that need some skill are pointless, and again, there are only 3 solo contents in this game that involve ANY skill (maybe 4 if you count the KotfE/KotET in Master mode). The rest of the solo stuff is a joke with no challenge whatsoever, pointless and boring kindergarden gaming where you achieve nothing but watching cutscenes that just tell you that you are achiving something...without any challenge.

 

Somehow I missed out on the rule of SWTOR that said "You MUST group up in order to see all storylines".

 

The thing is that not everyone games so that they can brag about "Oh, I did all OPS in NiM because I'm sooooo bad*****!". Some people play for the enjoyment of a good storyline. You need to realize the the demographic of gamers is shifting...it's not all young kids who want to show off how they can ace hardmode anymore. All of us folks who have been gaming since the dawn of time (yes, my first game was Pong, first MMO was text-based), are now older with lives outside of games and just don't have the desire and/or time available to sit around waiting on a group, just to be told "Spacebar N00b!!!!111!!" or "LTP!!!11!!"...or just getting kicked outright because we're not l33t enough for all the people who have run the thing a million times and lack the patience to deal with anyone who wasn't popped out of the womb knowing exactly how to run the op to perfection or doesn't own every single piece of the best gear in the game.

 

Nobody's asking for them to get rid of ops, just provide a casual-friendly (and I know, "casual" is such a terrible insult) alternative to them. If for no other reason, to give all us "whiny crybaby" solo casuals a sort of test/practice run so that we don't have to group up with all you l33ts not knowing the first thing about the op and its mechanics. So if we want to repeat it as a group op, we're not going in completely blind. (And yes, I know there's YouTube videos, but there's a big difference between watching it and doing it.)

Edited August 30, 2017 by feylyndiira

[Ylliarus]

Well, just a quick info, but some alliance missions needs group content in order to be completed. I quoted the mission with Pierce, when he ask you to pvp. Star Fortress also required multiple peoples to be completed if I remember correctly. You didn't do them because of this ?

 

And trust him when he says easy.

It may be hard by the look of it but it really isn't, it just needs the will to do it

 

Did I ever say I don't do group content? I do Uprisings and Flashpoints regularly and PvP daily as it's the main thing I do in the game, I just don't take it as seriously as some and am capable of saying "better next time!" In chat after we lose a match. So I actually do have Pierce on all my non-Warrior classes, yes, thank you!

[Khaleg]

Somehow I missed out on the rule of SWTOR that said "You MUST group up in order to see all storylines".

 

The thing is that not everyone games so that they can brag about "Oh, I did all OPS in NiM because I'm sooooo bad*****!". Some people play for the enjoyment of a good storyline. You need to realize the the demographic of gamers is shifting...it's not all young kids who want to show off how they can ace hardmode anymore. All of us folks who have been gaming since the dawn of time (yes, my first game was Pong, first MMO was text-based), are now older with lives outside of games and just don't have the desire and/or time available to sit around waiting on a group, just to be told "Spacebar N00b!!!!111!!" or "LTP!!!11!!"...or just getting kicked outright because we're not l33t enough for all the people who have run the thing a million times and lack the patience to deal with anyone who wasn't popped out of the womb knowing exactly how to run the op to perfection or doesn't own every single piece of the best gear in the game.

 

Nobody's asking for them to get rid of ops, just provide a casual-friendly (and I know, "casual" is such a terrible insult) alternative to them. If for no other reason, to give all us "whiny crybaby" solo casuals a sort of test/practice run so that we don't have to group up with all you l33ts not knowing the first thing about the op and its mechanics. So if we want to repeat it as a group op, we're not going in completely blind. (And yes, I know there's YouTube videos, but there's a big difference between watching it and doing it.)

 

You have missed out hearing from that rule?! Like really? This whole topic is about discussing this EXISTING rule while we speak. Thanks for letting me act as Mr. Obvious since you ignore this very fact...

And again, Oricon is NOT even a main storyline but a great one imho. It would be piss poor if it wouldn't lead to an Operation or 2 of them.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Khaleg

[Ylliarus]

So we have two groups of people, one group gets extra rewards for playing the way they want and the other gets told "your playing the wrong way", and does not get extra rewards for playing the way they want. How does that even make a lick of sense?

 

Cirran

 

THANK YOU FOR THIS COMMENT. Yes exactly, I don't get why Raiders and OPS people get so worked up if someone even remotely suggests solo content for something. This is an MMO, MMO means an environment where players are online at the same time in the same world. MMO doesn't mean "everything is group content and has to be group content". It means that there are people who are enjoying group content and solo content online at the same time and one is NOT a majority over the other.

 

If the OPS people backed up the people wanting solo stuff also we would have backed you up in asking for operations. But instead you almost always are against us so you didn't see us complaining when they focused on story with KotFE and KotET...

[DieAlteHexe]

Somehow I missed out on the rule of SWTOR that said "You MUST group up in order to see all storylines". ...

 

This misapprehension has plagued MMOs since the dawn of the genre. Irritates me no end, especially when used as a "weapon" in a discussion. I remember the battles in EQ over the whole "must raid" mentality and how, slowly slowly, change came about when dev houses realised that, as you said, "we grew up" and no longer could devote the time to all that was required to truly raid (grouping as well...content that required grouping in order to progress). The wise dev houses listened. And the bickering about what "MMO" means has been going on ever since.

 

I wish folk could respect both sides of the issue. Like grouping? By all means go for it! But gating content essential to story progression behind grouping is a bad thing.

[Ylliarus]

This misapprehension has plagued MMOs since the dawn of the genre. Irritates me no end, especially when used as a "weapon" in a discussion. I remember the battles in EQ over the whole "must raid" mentality and how, slowly slowly, change came about when dev houses realised that, as you said, "we grew up" and no longer could devote the time to all that was required to truly raid (grouping as well...content that required grouping in order to progress). The wise dev houses listened. And the bickering about what "MMO" means has been going on ever since.

 

I wish folk could respect both sides of the issue. Like grouping? By all means go for it! But gating content essential to story progression behind grouping is a bad thing.

 

I completely agree. Just because raiders raid daily doesn't mean that is the only way to play. If it were then why are class stories solo content? Why were the various planetary missions solo content? Why did they make Heroics also viable for solo playthrough? Your way to play is not the right way to play, that's what I say to the raiders and ops people. It is just another way to play this game and it's a valid one, just as playing this game solo is also valid.

 

And don't get me wrong I am not saying that the Devs should make Oricon solo content. I am saying give us an alternative like how they did on Yavin 4 in Shadow of Revan. Because all those against this approach seem to conveniently forget Bioware already gave an alternative to doing an OPS in main story content. And yes, Oricon is main story content it has the purple tag on it which is considered to be main story by Bioware. Flashpoints like Directive 7 and the Revan Flashpoints also have the same tag AND have a solo mode because they're main story. The same should be done with Oricon as the Devs gave the story arc a purple icon for a reason.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Ylliarus

[DieAlteHexe]

You have missed out hearing from that rule?! Like really? This whole topic is about discussing this EXISTING rule while we speak. Thanks for letting me act as Mr. Obvious since you ignore this very fact...

And again, Oricon is NOT even a main storyline but a great one imho. It would be piss poor if it wouldn't lead to an Operation or 2 of them.

 

It's not a rule that one must group. In some areas and some lines of progression it is the only option but it's not a rule of the game. It's a choice and should remain so in order that those who like to group, can and those who don't, need not. The only time that bothers me is when it prevents progress in a quest line (unless it's made clear at the start of the line that an OP or what have you WILL be required).

[DieAlteHexe]

I completely agree. Just because raiders raid daily doesn't mean that is the only way to play. If it were then why are class stories solo content? Why were the various planetary missions solo content? Why did they make Heroics also viable for solo playthrough? Your way to play is not the right way to play, that's what I say to the raiders and ops people. It is just another way to play this game and it's a valid one, just as playing this game solo is also valid.

 

This "battle" has been going on for nearly 20 (ack) years. I've pretty much given up on it ever being resolved. What I keep hoping we'll see is that both sides of the issue respect that there are other perfectly valid choices and that neither one is "better" (aside from personal preference) than the other. From what I've seen over the years more and more attention is being paid to grouping in that it's NOT as popular as solo/duo as is shown by the tempting "better gear" offered to those who do group. That is also fine with me so long as my solo/duo gear allows me to do the content (solo/duo).

 

There is no need to bicker and yet...here we are, 20 years on...bickering. Go figger.