Why Was Oricon Never Made Solo-Friendly?

[MissilyMilcasia]

I've a question for you, if I might?

 

Why would it matter to you if BW made changes to this? You seem to be denigrating those who want it pretty strongly. Usually that means someone is invested in something. I'm unable to figure out why it would matter to you? I think using the same concept as on Yavin 4 for the Revan thing (dailies instead of Ops) is a reasonable solution that shouldn't be at all difficult to code in.

 

So why so vested in folk doing content they don't wish to?

 

Appearances are not what they seem.

 

I have no problem with this in principle. I think that for new content they should make a solo mode which they pretty much do for everything now and all is well. My problem is that bioware is failing to deliver new content and people think that this is a good idea to do, when it so is clearly not. What scares me is that bioware might invest time into this and not actually focus on finishing Iokath, wrapping up this storyline effectively which is already in dire straights after Umbara, etc. Bioware is not even delivering new content at a reasonable level that is bug free. Whose to say they don't screw the pooch on this too? All in all, this content came out FOUR years ago. That's three expansions ago, 15 levels ago. I can spew off more facts. I actually looked back, Miley Cyrus's Wrecking Ball was the #1 single in the US when Dread War dropped. Feel the old

 

The point of all of those random facts is it is not relevant any more and most people have seen the story indirectly or directly at this point. The amount of people who would generally benefit from this- i.e. super solo players who would care enough to go back to a story that has no relevance to the current direction of the game- is too small for the effort, plain and simple.

 

My rationale is bioware's rationale for not making the content have a solo option- a) it wasn't in game, b) it was a storyline designed around raiding. That was the dominant theory then, and people just have to accept that.

 

And no, it is not the same option. They would have to design at minimum a new quest (which wouldn't really make sense since all of unicorn is already fashioned to the questline, so they'd have to make a new area or something) or at worse a standalone ops like revan encounter (which wouldn't make sense bc who would be your allies, etc.) and its just not worth it. Stabilizing the playerbase with new content is the only hope this game still has.

 

I get that the principles of this game have changed- people are now heavily skewed toward solo play, so much so that they certainly should not be ignored or punished. Which is why going forward yes all content should have solo features. But this update was from a time when group content was still heavily tied to endgame and that's how it operated, and that the opportunity cost of diverting time and resources from new content is too high for content released so long ago.

[MissilyMilcasia]

But playing the prior Ops is not a prerequisite to starting the Oricon quest chain, in fact if I recall correctly there are even different conversation options available in the starting mission depending on whether or not you have done them. If Oricon had started and ended with Ops, that would be one thing, but it's 95% solo-able, then they throw up an Ops "gate" at the proverbial five-yard line.

 

Well that's the whole point, no? The Forged Alliances plotline - and the Ilum plotline before it, for that matter - used to have a "you have to group" gate on it, but BW did go back and retroactively add a solo option for both. People are just asking them to do the same thing here.

 

Because it's not the same thing. Making a solo fp is easy. It's the same everything except you have a dummy dragging you through that tanks and heals. Most mechanics in the Forged Alliances were already forgivable because of tactical mode. It wasn't a stretch to make it solo from there.

 

There is however no tactical operation. For an op you need at seven dummies that execute. Assuming they just kept the Dread Master's end fight, they'd have to figure out which mechanics to cut, which to keep, if they want to add new training wheels ones for a solo player, retune the fight. Oh and figure out who to add to the storylines (considering everyone else besides your character who stepped foot on Oricon went mad) Do you see the complications with this? this, content that was released four years ago, content that has come and gone.

Edited August 31, 2017 by MissilyMilcasia

[MissilyMilcasia]

Yeah, people never shift interest and playerbase never change, nothing needs to be done to make old content relevant.

 

You clearly miss the overall picture that if the game doesn't get the endgame back on track this game will not survive. The data proved they miscalculated on how important raiding was in the game, it stabilized communities on a lot of servers, and now most are BLEEDING players, especially when they see the current endgame content.

 

This has to be rectified. They have to start making positive changes to this game so people don't jump on the forum every time there's a patch and rip bioware a new one. All of the little changes and implementations on stuff that has been accepted for a while now has been torn up- bestia farm, crystal swap. What if they screw the pooch on this? Then the solo players will be left SOL and MORE people will yell about how this was a waste of time.

 

Maybe realize that there is the word multiplayer in the game genre and accept that not everything can be solved by our little mini god commanders, and that you get by with a little help from your friends.

 

Those who put in the effort? You mean those guilds who were happy to sell these items to get money for themselves? If they care about it so much, why did they make sell runs? Do you even play in 3.0? Nearly every NIM guild were selling runs and mounts and titles.

 

It's funny that people think some end ops stuff should always be put on a altar for "those who do the hard work" even after years have passed.

 

So what's wrong to put them to the Cartel Market? That's being hypocrite

 

So is it really about the content here, or is it about getting access to older stuff? It sounds like you're trying to ride this to both.

 

People still sell em. Guilds do because they fund progression. Raiding (especially now since everything is expensive as all get out) is extremely credit negative. Like I have 236's/242's on my main and it's 10k ish each time I die. Times that by eight (or sixteen) and that's 80k/160k PER PULL. A guild could drop a million or so credits PER NIGHT of raiding. New content can take weeks to get on clear. Instead of farming credits through mission runs or whatever or playing hands at trading, use what your successful at: raiding. It's a completely fair thing.

 

The stuff (Wings, Grobthok Jr., etc) is representative of completion of the content, whether that achievement was done bc you were in a guild that server first'd it or whether you /stuck in a corner at the beginning. Bioware implemented many ways of determining how skilled someone was (ex. Nightmare Power titles, Timed Runs, Achievement Times, etc. etc.). Stuff simply says I did it- never how or why.

 

Whether or not bioware decides to invest in redoing oricon, i dont know. I know however they will never make top tier raiding vanity items CM purchasable. And that is for the better.

Edited August 31, 2017 by MissilyMilcasia

[ImmortalLowlife]

*wall of text incoming*

 

Every time someone brings up making a solo version to the conclusion for the dread masters storyline & micro binoculars quest, we get these same type of responses from some players.

 

"It's an MMO.... it's a waste of time... watch it on YouTube..."

 

Well....according to the Financial Times the definition is

An MMO, or massively multiplayer online game, is a game that thousands of participants can play simultaneously over the internet.

 

That means I'm playing, you're playing, he's playing, & she's playing..... But it doesn't mean I HAVE to be in a group with all y'all to play.

 

As far as it being a waste of time, considering people have been asking for this SINCE IT WAS RELEASED.... I'd say there is a percentage of the player base who STILL want this to happen. The fact is that even though the game is 5yrs old, there are still a lot of us who'd rather roll alt after alt and play through all the content available to solo instead of playing the endgame gear grind all the time. My highest command rank on all my lvl 70 characters is 30. (I've got about 5 at lvl 70 btw) I've also got another 30 characters between lvl 7 & 66. Those 30 go through all the solo content, all the solo FP's, and some of the planetary quest on every planet.... except oricron. That planet gets skipped because it ends in an OP.

 

I typically always play solo. But I got invited to group for the SoR OP last weekend while playing on Yavin and I said "sure... why not" Considering how long the whole thing took, I probably won't do it often (that OP took all the time I had to play that day). But I'm open to try em now. Maybe if it was solo'able (even without all the rewards) you'd get more solo players willing to give the real version a shot.

 

Watching on YouTube.... Yea... no... THAT'S not my character. I wanna see MY characters. Not someone else's.

 

People will complain regardless of what BW does. I'll be the first to say the biggest mistake they made with KotFE/KotET was they focused solely on one play style instead of balancing between all. If they'd released 9 chapters of KotFE, then the next month released new PvP maps, then an OP the following month, then another set of chapters, etc.... they'd have gotten a better response from the player base.

 

But imo making older content available to a wider player base is never a bad thing. If anything it helps make that old content revelant again.

[feylyndiira]

Oh, and again, if peoples are too stressed about the Ops thing, just come to The Red Eclipse, my guild will carry those ops for you whenever you want. We'll be done in two hours. You'll get your story thing, we'll get our cxp. Everyone's happy, end of the story (no pun intended).

 

I have no desire to be "carried", but would love to be able to do the ops with a group that doesn't mind having someone along that has never done an ops before.

[merovejec]

Not everyone got a friend circle big enough to do ops whenever they want to, this isn't everquest. Group should be optional and provide extra reward people for doing it, not block out content from people not doing it.

 

OMG I just had to start laughing here, which made the other ppl in the office stare at me. Anyway, that is the concept of an MMO, if you dont have friends, you can make friends, ppl even got married through swtor.

 

If you dont have the people just login in prime time, go to fleet, make a group, done!

[merovejec]

I clearly see from this thread it's 50/50, half the people are for and the other against. Although I still don't see why the people against are against as it completely does not affect them in any way if there is a solo alternative for Oricon. Somehow I didn't hear this amount of moaning and groaning when the devs did it in Shadow of Revan...

 

You want more numbers against your opinion? No Problem!

 

How if effects us? DEVELOPMENT TIME! Did you notice how the new stuff looks like? Bugs, lags, few content. One boss per 3 months?? By wanting this they would spend even less time on stuff they should spend time on. They have serious issues to keep the game running and updated and you want to refurbish old content?

 

Also, look how many players here actually agree with you 10-15?

[merovejec]

Waste?!

 

Yes, Waste!

 

As posted above the game is lacking resources and development, ideas like these would put it even more behind schedule.

[merovejec]

This is as it should be, IMO.

 

If you want those OP's rewards, then do the OP's as they were intended to be done.

 

I hate to say it but ops scaling saved the raiding in the game overall. This isnt WoW where you get a dozen new operations each year, they need to keep what they have as "current content"

[Debilatorrex]

They should leave it as it is, its absolutely no issue to gather a group of ppl on fleet and go and do the operation for you to finish your story!

[nepochop]

I do understand the OP about having issues with this, but what he needs to understand is that he is a minority in the game population, you cant demand such things for 20-30 ppl. What about the others that HAD to do the ops in the past?

 

Im perfectly fine with the way that part of the game is setup, its great, makes sence and its easy to do with a group you find on fleet.

[GilbertoSilva]

I guess the OP has social rank I

 

Anyway, seeing this thread is getting out of hand, I wanted to add my 2 cents. I never had any issues with this in the past, there might have been a few ppl just like the OP but there was even some guild and guy here on forums who always offered a helping hand in getting them through the operations.

 

I would suggest the ppl to try it, they wont lose anything trying something new, or if had bad experiences in the past they should give it another try now!

[SmashWindy]

OMG another "solo ops" thread. When I google this game it clearly states MMO - multiplayer!! I dont know why people are then surprised that they have to do group content to proggress.

 

If you dont like it then go play KOTOR 1 and 2, or wait for the new KOTOR they are making, but you have to wait like 2 years for that. Getting back to such content would only cost development time which would affect all the players in the game waiting for new stuff to be added just so that 10 ppl can finish their story, which can be done in 1 hour by making 2 groups of ppl on fleet!

 

No, just no!

[TerminatorRexy]

So on my Sith Inquisitor, Sith Sorcerer better said that I have been playing for years now the mission on Oricon is still there.. stuck at the same exact point... left untouched... It's where you have to finish the 2 OPS in order to finish the story arc on the planet. Which is something I don't understand why it hasn't been remedied to be solo-friendly.

 

I don't do OPS, I don't want to do them as it's not my playstyle and I don't need the pressure of it on my shoulders. Flashpoints sure I love 'em, but I'll stay away from OPS. Which is where my issue lies with because now I will never be able to finish Oricon. Why wasn't there an alternative added to the Dread Master Arc like we had in Shadow of Revan? People could choose to play the OPS or they could do dailies instead to progress the story. So, it's not like an alternative is unthinkable and lately Iokath also has a story arc that can be supplemented with an OPS but it's not vital to continue the story. I ask therefore again, why after all this time there wasn't crafted a solution for the Oricon story arc?

 

Perhaps the alternative could be really easy and doing the dailies will be what is needed. A more fun solution could be making an alternative flashpoint for the Oricon OPS that allow the player to experience the raids but it's not on actual Operations level and is also soloable for those who like that playstyle. You'd be given the choice whether you'd want to complete the Oricon story through OPS or Flashpoint. The latter would also be a good preparation for those who'd eventually want to dive into the operations.

 

Lets be reasonable here, youve seen the new Flashpoint? Played the new ops? Yes the bosses in Gods of the machine are great and Im looking forward to the rest, but Umbara is not as good as it could be. The reason? Development issues. The reason? Budget issues.

 

You are asking the Devs to drop what they are doing (which is far less than they are supposed to do for their paying customers) and go back to 3 year old content to make it soloable for a few people? Did you even think about what you were writing?

 

What this game needs is more players so that it is more profitable and gains the attention of EA so that it gets more money. That is hard to do if you have little resources to work with to get those players. I surely know 1 thing, going back to developing old content is NOT the way.

[DagobertDucky]

I think the other ops needs to have solo version as well. Especially SnV otherwise it would confuse you when they said you struck down Styrak.

 

NO!

 

I mean why would you do this? Sure SoR was an exception and an interesting exception but going back to old content just so that it is soloable??

 

 

What if they added a solo mode for OP's that gave NO rewards (no loot, no CXP, no XP, etc.), but allowed players to experience the story?

 

Would that be an acceptable compromise?

 

Well I guess I would suggest this, but really only if the Devs have nothing to do and all the bugs are fixed, which many never be

[tahol]

Lets be reasonable here, youve seen the new Flashpoint? Played the new ops? Yes the bosses in Gods of the machine are great and Im looking forward to the rest, but Umbara is not as good as it could be. The reason? Development issues. The reason? Budget issues.

 

You are asking the Devs to drop what they are doing (which is far less than they are supposed to do for their paying customers) and go back to 3 year old content to make it soloable for a few people? Did you even think about what you were writing?

 

What this game needs is more players so that it is more profitable and gains the attention of EA so that it gets more money. That is hard to do if you have little resources to work with to get those players. I surely know 1 thing, going back to developing old content is NOT the way.

 

This. Hey, I don't do group content at all. My social rank is probably negative. Like -10. Yet, I never expect the game to cater my anti-social needs. Lots of solo-content has been added, and I'm thankful for it, but I personally never demanded it. I know I play MMO as a solo player, it is my choice. I have no business to expect the game to adapt to my needs.

 

People who expect devs to begin to tinker with old content to make it soloable really don't think much longer than their own noses. I absolutely don't want any resources poured in something so irrelevant as solo OPS. Dread Masters-storyline is a sidequest and not vital in any way. If someone really wants to play it to the end, then game has a way to do it: you make a group. This game is now developed with a skeleton crew, and they barely seem to get enough funding to do what they do now. It is irresponsible and plain selfish to expect them to cater someones special needs, and these people don't talk for all soloplayers.

[DieAlteHexe]

Since this thread has devolved into polarity, I'll be moseying along.

 

All I would like to see, and I doubt it takes much dev time, when a quest line is started IF there is an OP in the midst of it to know in advance. It would be lovely if there were an alternative like on Yavin for the SoR line but I am not even that fussed about that.

 

No, I don't want the game rewritten. No, I don't want the devs to redo old quest lines.

 

Oh, and I'd really, really like to see people stop being jerks to one and other.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I do understand the OP about having issues with this, but what he needs to understand is that he is a minority in the game population, you cant demand such things for 20-30 ppl. What about the others that HAD to do the ops in the past?

 

Im perfectly fine with the way that part of the game is setup, its great, makes sence and its easy to do with a group you find on fleet.

 

Actually, I'd posit that it's way more than "20 or 20 people." The backlash over Oricon was such that they made sure Yavin didn't run the same way. That would suggest that many, many people were unhappy over the Oricon Op requirement to finish the quest.

 

If you enjoy Ops, that's great, but not everyone does. And if it's a purple quest it should be able to be completed solo like the other purple quests. Or else, they shouldn't string people along through a story that's almost entirely solo before hitting them with an Op.

[nepochop]

Actually, I'd posit that it's way more than "20 or 20 people." The backlash over Oricon was such that they made sure Yavin didn't run the same way. That would suggest that many, many people were unhappy over the Oricon Op requirement to finish the quest.

 

If you enjoy Ops, that's great, but not everyone does. And if it's a purple quest it should be able to be completed solo like the other purple quests. Or else, they shouldn't string people along through a story that's almost entirely solo before hitting them with an Op.

 

Ok sure, we can see the trend here, Oricon required an ops, Yavin gave the choice and Iokath made the ops a side thing. So there is your solution!! They have moved away from it, but that still does not mean they should now go back and change stuff to solo! People want to change old stuff, thats what bothers me, Oricon, Seeker droid, Macrobinoculars, they just need to face the facts, the stuff should stay as it is.

 

The probably only thing I have seen them change is the H4 in Section X and that should be pretty much all that is needed.

[supertimtaf]

I have no desire to be "carried", but would love to be able to do the ops with a group that doesn't mind having someone along that has never done an ops before.

 

Well, yeah, that was my point. As long as you're listening to the basic tactics there shouldn't be any problem. The only difficult boss of the two Ops would be Draxus in Dread Fortress, since it is a boss that demands to learn progressively each of his phase. But otherwise, peoples don't really care if you've done an Operation before. As long as you listen to what you're told, then there is no issue

[Pesztike]

If you really just want to experience the story, youtube is your friend! Here, i even did the work for you!

 

 

These videos include everything, even cutscenes from the ops. Requires zero effort and you don't have to interact with anyone, promise

And if it ever happens that Bioware makes an alternative way to finish this completely optional side story, i don't think it should award players with anything. For example, in Guild Wars 2, living world season 1 isn't available anymore. All you can do is talk to an NPC who gives you a recap by a minute-ish long cutscene about the events of that story. That should be in Swtor too, if you don't want to do the group content, you get your cutscene about what happens during the ops and that's that. No mount, no credits, xp, just your story. Sounds lame i know, but feeling entitled to awards just because the content is "old" is just as lame imo

[feylyndiira]

Well, yeah, that was my point. As long as you're listening to the basic tactics there shouldn't be any problem. The only difficult boss of the two Ops would be Draxus in Dread Fortress, since it is a boss that demands to learn progressively each of his phase. But otherwise, peoples don't really care if you've done an Operation before. As long as you listen to what you're told, then there is no issue

 

I shall have to look up your guild then, since I'm on TRE too.

[Ylliarus]

Since this thread has devolved into polarity, I'll be moseying along.

 

All I would like to see, and I doubt it takes much dev time, when a quest line is started IF there is an OP in the midst of it to know in advance. It would be lovely if there were an alternative like on Yavin for the SoR line but I am not even that fussed about that.

 

No, I don't want the game rewritten. No, I don't want the devs to redo old quest lines.

 

Oh, and I'd really, really like to see people stop being jerks to one and other.

 

Same, I am no longer interested in responding to this thread because most people can only resort to laughing at others for asking a perfectly reasonable thing and making assumptions about me or others in this thread which are lightyears from the truth or just talking down to people from their high horses. If all the people that oppose this are solely capable of using strawman arguments and ridicule to counter this, then a productive discussion will not happen. But that is the easiest way to tear down an idea, isn't it? To just laugh at it, laugh at the OP and those who support the OP. It takes less effort and thinking than providing sensible, thought out and discussion-worthy counter arguments.

 

If anything the raiders and OPS players in this thread proved to me that the Operation environment is still as elitist and nasty as it was when I tried out operations the first time all those years ago. It's what pushed me away then and it's what keeping me away now.

 

Also, once and for all, this is the true meaning of an MMO, not your delusion "this is an mmo, everything is group content, solo play is against the rules":

 

"A multiplayer video game is a video game in which more than one person can play in the same game environment at the same time. Video games are often single-player activities, putting the player against preprogrammed challenges or AI-controlled opponents (which lack the flexibility of human thought). Multiplayer games allow players interaction with other individuals in partnership, competition or rivalry, providing them with social communication absent from single-player games. In multiplayer games, players may compete against two (or more) human contestants, work cooperatively with a human partner to achieve a common goal, supervise other players' activity, co-op, and objective-based modes assaulting (or defending) a control point."

 

Playing in a group or having the focus of the content on groups is optional, it's a possibility, not a requirement.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Sundown]

No dots, no hots, no getting hit.

Set your companion to tank and AOE taunt when the adds spawn while you carry a battery.

Ah, thanks a lot! This gem was almost lost to me in all this bickering and whining about one little cut scene lost to solo players. I will try this as soon as the bolster week is over.

 

Regarding the topic again - as I've said I do agree that having a solo-quest-chain ending in multiplayer finales is not a smart idea, even though I like the idea of promoting a more diverse gameplay.

If you didn't do the ops you just don't miss out on much though, so the whine is pretty much out of line. You want it, you do it. All this "raiders are so evil" and "I can't handle it" or "I can't be arsed to wait for a couple of people to join" is just an excuse.

 

If I had it my way, BW would do a mocking solo-cut scene where the player gets the result of the operation displayed, like: "you were not part of the strike team, so here's what happened". Because it is basically true. Having a beaten Calphayus laugh at the player might be pretty funny.

[merovejec]

Well, yeah, that was my point. As long as you're listening to the basic tactics there shouldn't be any problem. The only difficult boss of the two Ops would be Draxus in Dread Fortress, since it is a boss that demands to learn progressively each of his phase. But otherwise, peoples don't really care if you've done an Operation before. As long as you listen to what you're told, then there is no issue

 

That is the point, you would not believe how many people I have encountered in the game that were playing totaly wrong, but defended what they were doing and even said they are in the game from day 1!!

 

The only thing you really need to do is listen and learn, nothing more. Even if you crap at playing the game, if you just move out of red and do this, do that, its fine. The Devs are making the game easier and easier, removing unnecesary abilities, which are not meant for the class, highlighting the procs and much more. The biggest issue I have seen is that players have for example only been using the "cool looking abilities" not doing rotations, just using the cool ability, then even waiting, doing nothing till it comes off cd.

 

People should not be afraid to try ops, tell at start that they are new and never done it before, it should be fine then.