Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Glowrod]

Until yesterday, I only used slicing as a gathering skill and made lots of money. Since the "Nerf" the gathering portion seems to be better than it was (more nodes).

 

Last night I started doing the mission aspect to see what the deal was. I found this:

 

1. Sending idle companions off for level 1 lockboxes will not make you any money. Don't waste your time.

2. Level 2 lockboxes WILL generally make a profit. You spend about 230 gold to get from 300 to 450 back. Considering you don't have to do anything for it, it's a decent extra income.

3. If you always keep a companion or two out, you also get lots of crafting recipes and equipment upgrade items.

 

I would not call it broken by any stretch. People that are claiming that it is are either not trying the new system and making unwarrented assumptions, OR they are trolling.

[Darksx]

Until yesterday, I only used slicing as a gathering skill and made lots of money. Since the "Nerf" the gathering portion seems to be better than it was (more nodes).

 

Last night I started doing the mission aspect to see what the deal was. I found this:

 

1. Sending idle companions off for level 1 lockboxes will not make you any money. Don't waste your time.

2. Level 2 lockboxes WILL generally make a profit. You spend about 230 gold to get from 300 to 450 back. Considering you don't have to do anything for it, it's a decent extra income.

3. If you always keep a companion or two out, you also get lots of crafting recipes and equipment upgrade items.

 

I would not call it broken by any stretch. People that are claiming that it is are either not trying the new system and making unwarrented assumptions, OR they are trolling.

 

First off, you are referring to level 1 and 2 of Slicing, try using it at level 6 then come back here and talk to me about how many credits you are losing per mission.

 

You need to get all the fact before you talk about other who are trying to get over on the system and are trolling. This has become a very serious issue and you don’t have all the facts. Interjecting what little leveling you have done is pale in comparison to what the rest of us have been experiencing.

[DarthSublimitas]

Until yesterday, I only used slicing as a gathering skill and made lots of money. Since the "Nerf" the gathering portion seems to be better than it was (more nodes).

 

Last night I started doing the mission aspect to see what the deal was. I found this:

 

1. Sending idle companions off for level 1 lockboxes will not make you any money. Don't waste your time.

2. Level 2 lockboxes WILL generally make a profit. You spend about 230 gold to get from 300 to 450 back. Considering you don't have to do anything for it, it's a decent extra income.

3. If you always keep a companion or two out, you also get lots of crafting recipes and equipment upgrade items.

 

I would not call it broken by any stretch. People that are claiming that it is are either not trying the new system and making unwarrented assumptions, OR they are trolling.

 

300 - 230 = 70 credits

450 - 230 = 220 credits

 

Oh boy, I'll be able to buy my speeder in no time

 

And how long are you sending them out for this pittence? When they can be crafting something or collecting much more valuable resources.

 

Don't you need to do lvl 1 lockboxes to get to lvl 2 lockboxes or just waste your money sending them out to get companion gifts that they don't want to begin with?

 

Equipment upgrades - haven't seen those yet... only useless augments that NOBODY buys.

Edited December 30, 2011 by DarthSublimitas

[The_Archon]

Slicing was over-nerfed. I agree it made too much money too quickly but now it loses money and isn't worth anything.

 

I opened a lock box on Alderaan this morning AND IT HAD CREDITS IN IT!

 

So I think you're misinformed.

 

Bioanalysis, Archaeology, and Scavenging make more by doing missions and selling materials on the GTN than slicing ever has, even if I get the mats from missions!

 

As a primary biochem, I can tell you that that is 100% false. How many biochem, Archeology, and scav crafters do you have? Have you looked at the GTN at the prices for raw mats? Do you realize that mats listed on the market aren't guaranteed to sell?

 

Remember, slicing is a GATHERING skill. Slicers gather lockboxes and augments, not materials to craft. Gathing skills, if you are not using them to craft, WILL MAKE YOU MONEY! Gathering+Crafting will MAKE YOU MORE MONEY!

 

Slicing makes you money. You don't even have to bet on someone buying your stuff from the GTN, or purchasing recipes.

 

Slicing, if kept healthy, will keep gold farmers out as people will not have ANY need to buy from them!

 

The gold farmers we're seeing right now? They made their credits with slicing.

[Pansophist]

Until yesterday, I only used slicing as a gathering skill and made lots of money. Since the "Nerf" the gathering portion seems to be better than it was (more nodes).

 

Last night I started doing the mission aspect to see what the deal was. I found this:

 

1. Sending idle companions off for level 1 lockboxes will not make you any money. Don't waste your time.

2. Level 2 lockboxes WILL generally make a profit. You spend about 230 gold to get from 300 to 450 back. Considering you don't have to do anything for it, it's a decent extra income.

3. If you always keep a companion or two out, you also get lots of crafting recipes and equipment upgrade items.

 

I would not call it broken by any stretch. People that are claiming that it is are either not trying the new system and making unwarrented assumptions, OR they are trolling.

 

We have spreadsheets documented with over 400 mission results. The results showed an overall nerf of around 90% and a nerf on the high yielding missions of 71%.

 

The results also showed that, while you will gain money over a long duration, it is not worth the time it takes.

 

In addition, the lockboxes you speak of in the world - the two high yielding areas (Illum and Tatt) had the lockboxes removed from the areas yesterday. I am aware that they still exist in the lowbie zones, but it is simply not worth it. (edit: In comparison to picking up other crew skills - relativity, people )

 

Again, however, I must press that the issue is not the slicing nerf. I am very pleased to see more people realizing that the issue is Bioware's complete lack of response to the community. The same exact scenario has been happening in the PvP forum for over a week (almost two now), and still no word from BioWare, not even a 'we're looking into it for you.'

 

That is why I, like others, are voting with our wallets and cancelling the resubs. Once BioWare decides to start listening to its community instead of the whiners spamming their customer service twitter feed, I'll re-sub.

 

I don't even need them to FIX things, I just want to hear feedback from them. Even if it was 'Yes, we did it. Yes, we think it was the right thing to do. Go back to enjoying your game.'

 

On a side note, please continue to ignore the trolls such as Archon and Violet. This thread is much more productive without the arguments they try to cause.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Pansophist

[The_Archon]

300 - 230 = 70 credits

450 - 230 = 220 credits

 

Oh boy, I'll be able to be my speeder in no time

 

And how long are you sending them out for this pittence?

 

Stop depending on crew missions like everyone did pre-nerf. They are no longer OP; nobody makes money with mission skills.

 

Gather nodes in the world. 100% free cash, and you don't even have to gamble at the GTN to see if someone buys it or not.

 

Equipment upgrades - haven't seen those yet... only useless augments that NOBODY buys.

 

I wonder why that is.

 

The huge number of people exploiting slicing flooded the market.

[ryancwn]

 

 

I wonder why that is.

 

The huge number of people exploiting slicing flooded the market.

 

Again, the main reason is not because the amount of augment on the market but the lack of augment slot gear on the market.

[Dorkfrey]

Until yesterday, I only used slicing as a gathering skill and made lots of money. Since the "Nerf" the gathering portion seems to be better than it was (more nodes).

 

Last night I started doing the mission aspect to see what the deal was. I found this:

 

1. Sending idle companions off for level 1 lockboxes will not make you any money. Don't waste your time.

2. Level 2 lockboxes WILL generally make a profit. You spend about 230 gold to get from 300 to 450 back. Considering you don't have to do anything for it, it's a decent extra income.

3. If you always keep a companion or two out, you also get lots of crafting recipes and equipment upgrade items.

 

I would not call it broken by any stretch. People that are claiming that it is are either not trying the new system and making unwarrented assumptions, OR they are trolling.

 

1: So - you're saying the starter level is broken. You do not get any money back on it. This says the craft IS broken. Carry on though.

 

2: So, you're saying the next level isn't broken - but at 400 Slicing, this loses money still.

 

3: No, you don't get *lots* of recipes. I've got less than 1/4 of my storage tab worth of them, and was doing slicing from day 1, as I levelled with my Smuggler. That was "pre" nerf. The drop rate has gone down even more.

 

See - I can make anecdotal evidence too. Except I can also provide statistical data from samples I've taken where I've made losses on EVERY single Rich/Abundant mission I've taken since the nerf. Only missions that have ever netted me a profit were moderate, and the profits have been pathetic (like a couple of hundred credits per mission - for a thirty minute mission) that now, it's quicker for me to spam Space Battles, do anything, other than slice with a companion and enjoy the story and game while slowly keeping myself afloat with the profits from it.

[The_Archon]

Again, the main reason is not because the amount of augment on the market but the lack of augment slot gear on the market.

 

I've bought dozens of augments. Probably nearly as many as mods for my lightsabers.

 

Perhaps when the folks coming off the slicing gravy train begin to craft something else that allows augments, we'll see an increase in sales?

[seven_deadlies]

I was annoyed hearing all the Slicers going on about how much money they made.

 

Not only could they gather money from ATMs lying all over the worlds.

 

But they could dispatch crew, who came back with pockets full of cash and schematics.

 

 

As a treasure hunter, I was paying 500 creds to dispatch, and my crew came back with a 250 lockbox. So don't tell me about losing money for trying! =)

 

I'm glad to hear Slicing is no longer free money for every noob to over-inflate the market.

[ryancwn]

I've bought dozens of augments. Probably nearly as many as mods for my lightsabers.

 

Perhaps when the folks coming off the slicing gravy train begin to craft something else that allows augments, we'll see an increase in sales?

 

Slicers are crafters too.... The reason why exceptional gear is rare because exceptional green is useless and exceloptional blue or purple is expensive to make and worst of all, it depends on RNG.

[Pansophist]

1: So - you're saying the starter level is broken. You do not get any money back on it. This says the craft IS broken. Carry on though.

 

2: So, you're saying the next level isn't broken - but at 400 Slicing, this loses money still.

 

3: No, you don't get *lots* of recipes. I've got less than 1/4 of my storage tab worth of them, and was doing slicing from day 1, as I levelled with my Smuggler. That was "pre" nerf. The drop rate has gone down even more.

 

See - I can make anecdotal evidence too. Except I can also provide statistical data from samples I've taken where I've made losses on EVERY single Rich/Abundant mission I've taken since the nerf. Only missions that have ever netted me a profit were moderate, and the profits have been pathetic (like a couple of hundred credits per mission - for a thirty minute mission) that now, it's quicker for me to spam Space Battles, do anything, other than slice with a companion and enjoy the story and game while slowly keeping myself afloat with the profits from it.

 

I'm just going to throw in here that I have seen a return from my missions, but this is mainly due to maxed affection and crit rates. On average missions, I lose credits. On crits, I gain back that and then a little more.

 

But once again, I must insist that the issue is NOT the slicing nerf. Everyone (for the most part) agrees it needed a nerf, rework, level caps, or something along those lines.

 

The issue is the lack of response from BioWare.

 

We have a lot of trolls that keep talking in circles about slicing and how it works as intended, but you don't see any of them with slicing, do you. Just ignore them and their jealous circular references.

 

 

Slicers are crafters too.... The reason why exceptional gear is rare because exceptional green is useless and exceloptional blue or purple is expensive to make and worst of all, it depends on RNG.

I don't want you to get chewed out by the trolls so I'm going to say that slicing, by definition, is not a crafting skill.

 

As for Archon's comments, just continue to ignore them. It's like Violet...we ignored him and he went away. When trolls lose their food, they get whiny and go to more abundant sources of nutrition. Please note, I would not say this if they actually provided anything other than the same statements over and over again, or provided useful suggestions.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Pansophist

[The_Archon]

In addition, the lockboxes you speak of in the world - the two high yielding areas (Illum and Tatt) had the lockboxes removed from the areas yesterday. I am aware that they still exist in the lowbie zones, but it is simply not worth it.

 

You heard it here first folks: opening a lock box out in the world while you're questing is totally not worth it.

 

Again, however, I must press that the issue is not the slicing nerf. I am very pleased to see more people realizing that the issue is Bioware's complete lack of response to the community.

 

You did get a response: Slicing was adjusted to be brought into line with the other professions.

 

What is it you want to hear?

 

I don't even need them to FIX things, I just want to hear feedback from them. Even if it was 'Yes, we did it. Yes, we think it was the right thing to do. Go back to enjoying your game.'

 

They did fix it, it was broken. You are just angry because your alts can no longer make you money from pure crew missions.

 

On a side note, please continue to ignore the trolls such as Archon and Violet. This thread is much more productive without the arguments they try to cause.

 

Now THAT is a compliment! You truly have no logical argument to support your position.

[ryancwn]

I was annoyed hearing all the Slicers going on about how much money they made.

 

Not only could they gather money from ATMs lying all over the worlds.

 

But they could dispatch crew, who came back with pockets full of cash and schematics.

 

 

As a treasure hunter, I was paying 500 creds to dispatch, and my crew came back with a 250 lockbox. So don't tell me about losing money for trying! =)

 

I'm glad to hear Slicing is no longer free money for every noob to over-inflate the market.

 

Except treasure hunting also gets relic (unique resource that is more valuable compare to augments), equipments (no need to buy gear once in a while), credits, material etc while slicing only get augments (useless due to the rarity of exceptional gear), schematics (so far the only schematics i got is grade 2 and grade 4 ship schematic) and credits.

[Yummymango]

1: So - you're saying the starter level is broken. You do not get any money back on it. This says the craft IS broken. Carry on though.

 

2: So, you're saying the next level isn't broken - but at 400 Slicing, this loses money still.

 

3: No, you don't get *lots* of recipes. I've got less than 1/4 of my storage tab worth of them, and was doing slicing from day 1, as I levelled with my Smuggler. That was "pre" nerf. The drop rate has gone down even more.

 

See - I can make anecdotal evidence too. Except I can also provide statistical data from samples I've taken where I've made losses on EVERY single Rich/Abundant mission I've taken since the nerf. Only missions that have ever netted me a profit were moderate, and the profits have been pathetic (like a couple of hundred credits per mission - for a thirty minute mission) that now, it's quicker for me to spam Space Battles, do anything, other than slice with a companion and enjoy the story and game while slowly keeping myself afloat with the profits from it.

 

Exactly, thats the whole point. If I am making a 200 profit (and that too not every time) every 30 minutes whats the point of the Skill. Please note that at many times I got 200 something from lock boxes after spending 1500 on mission. This is serious BS.

Also Augment missions (49-50) come back with green and I have tried so many times to sell then at 100 credits even then no one buys so now I just vendor it.

Not saying that this is the case all the time but this is the case most of the times.

[The_Archon]

Slicers are crafters too.... The reason why exceptional gear is rare because exceptional green is useless and exceloptional blue or purple is expensive to make and worst of all, it depends on RNG.

 

Dude. I make and sell green implants regularly, they are my only real source of crafting income.

 

Augments won't be balanced out on the GTN for a while anyhow, the people who have a ton stocked up from exploiting slicing will have to either vendor them or dump them somewhere first.

[ryancwn]

Dude. I make and sell green implants regularly, they are my only real source of crafting income.

 

Augments won't be balanced out on the GTN for a while anyhow, the people who have a ton stocked up from exploiting slicing will have to either vendor them or dump them somewhere first.

 

so slicer not making money on augment need to balance it out and the other income is a steady inflow that is capped and doesn't worth much at high level while crafter and gatherer income is uncapped but they are crying over slicers income instead of waiting for the market to balance it out? BS much?

[Tesclo]

You have 22 days of play time remaining. When your play time runs out, you will no longer be able to play. Please sign up for a recurring subscription plan or redeem a Game Time Code.

 

I wonder, how many more people need to unsub for Bioware to actually talk to their community about a major game breaking nerf? I have 22 days to see! Then I walk back to WoW. Its not even about the nerf. Its about the fact that the people running this game refuse to even talk to the players that pay their salary.

[Pansophist]

I wonder, how many more people need to unsub for Bioware to actually talk to their community about a major game breaking nerf? I have 22 days to see! Then I walk back to WoW. Its not even about the nerf. Its about the fact that the people running this game refuse to even talk to the players that pay their salary.

 

Sadly (or not so much), I can't go back to WoW either I'm trying to be done with my abusive MMO relationships ^^ I'll just wait for the next big thing.

 

There are other issues than the slicing nerf though (PvP being a large one) that need to be addressed as well.

 

There are a lot of communication issues at the moment. My hope is that the holidays are almost over, people will return to a working spirit, and we will see some results. I have faith in BioWare, but this last week has not been a good start for their venture into MMOs.

[Manathayria]

So perhaps that's what we all need to do en masse. We should all either shorten our subs - I originally did 3 months but am seriously thinking of about either cancelling or shortening it to a month at a time.

 

Apathy=Death. And that is what BW is doing now - not communicating with us showing us apathy and this may be the death of their game...

 

What is this nonsense that they're are not speaking with us - WE keep THEM in business with our subs - cut the subs and see how fast they respond...

 

Exactly what the FFXIV players did. The players being that disgusted that game is exactly what caused the game to go F2P for a year (they're picking up charging subs again next month).

 

That said... still enjoying this enough, none of the flaws in this game - or the nerf, are enough to drive me off. Yet. but I'm keeping my eyes on what's coming up. Lack of response/caring is what'll cause me to jump ship - not the slicing nerf though I do believe it was in excess.

 

Customer service is a huge thing, and giving us responses and not sitting back quietly is part of customer service. I don't think we're asking for a hard line either way, just something that says what's being considered and if this is even going anywhere.

 

I've said it before, and going to say it again:

 

up the cr drops so you actually profit off missions

 

or change the missions so they're a much higher drop rate for schematics.

 

Or, drop schematics only.

 

As it stands right now, one failed mission wipes any profit I've made off the previous ones. The prof does still make cash, but not enough to compensate for a failed mission. This is even considering world gathering with slicing. The other gathering professions you generally did make enough with failed missions to profit. Same with crew missions. Just my 2cr.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Manathayria

[Donger]

I wonder, how many more people need to unsub for Bioware to actually talk to their community about a major game breaking nerf? I have 22 days to see! Then I walk back to WoW. Its not even about the nerf. Its about the fact that the people running this game refuse to even talk to the players that pay their salary.

 

I agree as much as I hate to. I'd rather sit on a mount in Org staring at a mailbox than be paying my money for a game with 0 dev interaction.

 

Slicing isn't the only issue with crafting. There are others. No responses at all. I got 18 days left and I'll be gone.

 

The trolls can keep on doing what they do best... next time it might be something they enjoy that gets nerfed and they will be sitting here posting, waiting, and seeing nothing.

[Darksx]

I agree as much as I hate to. I'd rather sit on a mount in Org staring at a mailbox than be paying my money for a game with 0 dev interaction.

 

Slicing isn't the only issue with crafting. There are others. No responses at all. I got 18 days left and I'll be gone.

 

The trolls can keep on doing what they do best... next time it might be something they enjoy that gets nerfed and they will be sitting here posting, waiting, and seeing nothing.

 

Well said Donger

 

The comments on Augments, I don’t even send anyone out on those. The crap they bring back hardly even sells. I had one epic mission that cost me 4K to send them on. it took 2Hrs and 22Mins to complete. She came back with 1K in credits and a lousy purple augment that is still sitting on the AH for the past two days. I was so pissed about only getting a quarter of my money back. That was absurd. If that’s not a bad nerfing on Slicing, I don’t know what is.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Darksx

[-sith_hunter-]

How bout we agree there should simply be a chance for negative returns to range near 500-700 creds max and positive returns can get up near 1000-1500 creds?

 

This way there is a risk for loss but a greater reward to be had?

 

I hate complaining that just asks for change rather than giving a clear readable solution.

[MnMrMustard]

The demand for crafted goods needed to be addressed BEFORE slicing. Currently, people can quest without needing to buy or craft their own gear and not have any issues. Crafted gear isn't better than anything I've seen drop, and I've heard it is the same at endgame.

 

Removing slicing, a money maker, and not addressing this, a BIG money sink, has caused my server to go into a depression. No one is buying so no one is selling.

 

If this is an MMO, as it is touted, then a player economy is PARAMOUNT! Fix crafting professions to make BETTER GEAR!

[KTheAlchemist]

How bout we agree there should simply be a chance for negative returns to range near 500-700 creds max and positive returns can get up near 1000-1500 creds?

 

This way there is a risk for loss but a greater reward to be had?

 

I hate complaining that just asks for change rather than giving a clear readable solution.

 

Okay, if the chance for other crewskill missions to fail and return nothing is increased. There have been plenty of "clear, readable solution" type responses given, also.