Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[KTheAlchemist]

This is taken from http://www.swtorcrewskills.com

 

"Slicing gives you the ability to "hack" into secured computer systems and also lockboxes to retrieve and steal information and blueprints. These can act as "Recipes" to create items through your crafting crew skills"

 

This is what you get from slicing. The purpose of slicing as a gathering skill is to produce a small return of credits but its main purpose is to provide schematics for other skills. It's an auxillary skill.

 

1. Unofficial source is unofficial. It's not worthless information, but it isn't an authority on what Bioware "intends".

 

2. This would be a very solid purpose IF you could mission specifically for schematics. You cannot. They are "rare drops" off of lockbox missions.

Edited December 30, 2011 by KTheAlchemist

[brokensoldier]

wrong quote Edited December 30, 2011 by brokensoldier

[drdovetalk]

Wrong, augment is dirt cheap because exceptional gear (gear with augment slot) are rare. I checked the AH daily and I've seen less than 5 exceptional gear on my server. Not to mention they are not orange so they will be replace sooner or later. The demand for augment is tooo few that the amount of supply doesn't matter right now. Even if there are only 1 slicer on the server, I wouldn't even buy the augment from him unless Its a level 50 augments and I have an lv 50 augment slot gear.

 

True that exceptional gear is rare, but that's also because the economy and players are still young so we have less than expected crafters. Given time, we should have less slicers and more "producers" so the market should balance out better than the snapshot we see today.

 

If SWTOR is to last for years, then its developers need to set basic game-economic policies to cater for the future, not for the whims of today.

[KTheAlchemist]

EDIT: Apparently they chose the wrong quote or person. Edited December 30, 2011 by KTheAlchemist

[ryancwn]

True that exceptional gear is rare, but that's also because the economy and players are still young so we have less than expected crafters. Given time, we should have less slicers and more "producers" so the market should balance out better than the snapshot we see today.

 

If SWTOR is to last for years, then its developers need to set basic game-economic policies to cater for the future, not for the whims of today.

 

You seems to ignore the fact that SLICERS ARE also CRAFTER. They get schematic rarely and they use the credits gain from slicing to buy mats from AH and CRAFT!.

[mynimoe]

1. Unofficial source is unofficial. It's not worthless information, but it isn't an authority on what Bioware "intends".

 

2. This would be a very solid purpose IF you could mission specifically for schematics. You cannot. They are "rare drops" off of lockbox missions.

 

1. An unofficial source is better than any sources you have provided (which is none)

 

2. Of course the schematics are rare, even with other gathering skills the chance of finding anything of value is small.

 

3. You're still ignoring the fact that you make a profit from it by gathering from nodes.

Edited December 30, 2011 by mynimoe

[KTheAlchemist]

1. An unofficial source is better than any sources you have provided (which is none)

 

2. Of course the schematics are rare, even with other gathering skills the chance of finding anything of value is small.

 

3. You're still ignoring the fact that you make a profit from it by gathering from nodes.

 

1. In terms of trying to convey some sort of authority, an unofficial source is worth less than nothing. None of us have any real "sources" here, because Bioware refuses to comment on this situation. We're all just trying to make sense of this the best we can.

 

2. Except that other gathering skills produce something of value EVERY TIME unless they fail. People have shown math that shows that often this is EXTREMELY profitable, but at the worth case scenario it is never a loss.

 

3. As many people have pointed out, the large nerfs in availability of nodes, coupled with the nerfing of said nodes, means that compared to the credits from things you're killing just to get to them, nodes are a tiny drop in the bucket.

[Volki]

Whatever, i got better things to do than arguing points of view with someone on a forum. Clearly you've got ya neckbeard in a knot over the changes and im not bout to go agreeing with you just because you keep repeating things as if i hadnt read or understood what you've already said.

 

BW musnt be happy with slicing as they nerfed it. All the rest of this is just typical mmo post-nerf forum fallout from the people who it effected crying unfaries and foul play to paying customers, and the people who were getting by without saying its fine and qft.

 

I just hope BW are aware enough to realise that a large proportion of the people on forums are squeeky wheels, and represent a minority of the in-game community.

 

EDIT - KTheAlchemist that is.

 

You are, of course, referring to yourself, I hope.

[mynimoe]

1. In terms of trying to convey some sort of authority, an unofficial source is worth less than nothing. None of us have any real "sources" here, because Bioware refuses to comment on this situation. We're all just trying to make sense of this the best we can.

 

2. Except that other gathering skills produce something of value EVERY TIME unless they fail. People have shown math that shows that often this is EXTREMELY profitable, but at the worth case scenario it is never a loss.

 

3. As many people have pointed out, the large nerfs in availability of nodes, coupled with the nerfing of said nodes, means that compared to the credits from things you're killing just to get to them, nodes are a tiny drop in the bucket.

 

 

1. I have some supporting information and you have none. If you can't provide anything to debunk my source, or provide one of your own then there is no reason to discuss this further.

 

2. I agree that the gathering missions for other gathering resources is maybe slightly more profitable than slicing, but this still doesnt change the fact that slicing is a GATHERING skill so it should be treated as such. Whenever I do gathering missions with my crew skills I don't make a profit. Source? personal experience. Reason? They intend the mats gathered from these quests to be used as supplementary to actual crafting skills.

 

3. There has been no nerfing of node availability. The cause of the shortage is the surplus number of slicers in the world now with the nodes constantly being consumed.

 

4. Simply stating that "other people are saying so and so" does not make it fact.

[DarthMalet]

Lets just say how it is instead.

 

Slicing combats gold sellers. After nerf, gold sellers pounce. Coincidence?

 

Its as simple as this, leave slicing as it is and your providing gold sellers with a market. PERIOD.

 

If people can get credits easily by themselves then they won't need to buy credits, thereby eliminating the need for gold sellers. No market.

[KTheAlchemist]

1. I have some supporting information and you have none. If you can't provide anything to debunk my source, or provide one of your own then there is no reason to discuss this further.

 

2. I agree that the gathering missions for other gathering resources is maybe slightly more profitable than slicing, but this still doesnt change the fact that slicing is a GATHERING skill so it should be treated as such. Whenever I do gathering missions with my crew skills I don't make a profit. Source? personal experience. Reason? They intend the mats gathered from these quests to be used as supplementary to actual crafting skills.

 

3. There has been no nerfing of node availability. The cause of the shortage is the surplus number of slicers in the world now with the nodes constantly being consumed.

 

4. Simply stating that "other people are saying so and so" does not make it fact.

 

1. No, you really don't. Unofficial sources are no support at all. All that your link tells is that someone, somewhere, believes that is a good run-down of the skill.

 

2. Yes, exactly. They supplement crafting skills. Slicing supplements nothing.

 

3. Whatever the reason for lack of nodes, the contents of said nodes have been nerfed.

 

4. Yes, and that includes your site. That link is "people saying so and so". Part of my point is that with the lack of Bioware communication, we're all just doing out best to try and figure things out on our own...there are no pertinent "sources".

[mynimoe]

Lets just say how it is instead.

 

Slicing combats gold sellers. After nerf, gold sellers pounce. Coincidence?

 

Its as simple as this, leave slicing as it is and your providing gold sellers with a market. PERIOD.

 

If people can get credits easily by themselves then they won't need to buy credits, thereby eliminating the need for gold sellers. No market.

 

The reason why it is a problem is because it heavily inflates the in-game economy. If a new player comes along and wants to buy anything he will not be able to because established players will have just big pockets that the prices for anything low-level will be comparable to the average amount of available money.

 

To explain further, Lets say that they changed it back. Everyone would have millions and millions of credits. Those players would create alts and they would fund their alts with their extremely rich mains. Crafters would sell their good for ridiculous prices because they would know that the general player would have a main with lots of money. Suddenly a legitimately new player would not be able to afford the simplest of thing.

 

Regardless of what is, or has been done to slicing there will always be goldsellers. they will just sell their gold for different, proportionally equivalent prices.

Edited December 30, 2011 by mynimoe

[mynimoe]

1. No, you really don't. Unofficial sources are no support at all. All that your link tells is that someone, somewhere, believes that is a good run-down of the skill.

 

2. Yes, exactly. They supplement crafting skills. Slicing supplements nothing.

 

3. Whatever the reason for lack of nodes, the contents of said nodes have been nerfed.

 

4. Yes, and that includes your site. That link is "people saying so and so". Part of my point is that with the lack of Bioware communication, we're all just doing out best to try and figure things out on our own...there are no pertinent "sources".

 

You're simply arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. I can't help you if you think that facts are debatable lol. A gathering skill is a gathering skill is a gathering skill. Lol. Good luck and fair...space? my friend.

[ryancwn]

You're simply arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. I can't help you if you think that facts are debatable lol. A gathering skill is a gathering skill is a gathering skill. Lol. Good luck and fair...space? my friend.

 

Do you agree that they should buff slicing when lv 50 inflate the market so gathering skill actually make profit by just seding out companions and selling mats? If not, shut the **** up. Slicing does not inflate the market much compare to the natural income. All slicing provide was steady fixed income. It is OP and need adjustment like a lv requirement so you can't run rank 5 mission at lv 10. But a nerf this hard to the point of no money gain is too much.

[KTheAlchemist]

You're simply arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. I can't help you if you think that facts are debatable lol. A gathering skill is a gathering skill is a gathering skill. Lol. Good luck and fair...space? my friend.

 

You're defining what a "gathering skill" is yourself and judging slicing baced on the metric you yourself created. Where are these "facts"? You're just slipping into nonsense at this point.

[mynimoe]

You're defining what a "gathering skill" is yourself and judging slicing baced on the metric you yourself created. Where are these "facts"? You're just slipping into nonsense at this point.

 

What nonsense? It's very simple to understand. A gathering skill is most productive through GATHERING. Not by doing missions. Lol. It's not something I created. This is how it has always been in all MMO's. This MMO is really the first one (to my knowledge) to introduce the mission method which IMO....(notice I am claiming that this is in fact JUST my opinion) Is just a means to continue to do a gathering/crafting skill while you're busy doing something else or can't find the nodes etc etc.

 

 

What I don't understand is how you can pretty much acknowledge that I am right yet continue to try and argue your case.

Edited December 30, 2011 by mynimoe

[tweaq]

You are, of course, referring to yourself, I hope.

 

Hi, thanks for replying to almost all of my posts.

 

No im not.

 

Thanks

[Canarith]

The way slicing was there would be no need for gold farmers...

 

A lot of people in WoW had a lot of gold. That didn't reduce the number of gold farmers.....

[Volki]

Let Bioware create "Slicing nerfed" servers. People can transfer there if they want. Would you object to playing on a server that suits your playstyle and economic theories? If not, allow me "unNerfed" servers. This way, everyone is happy.

 

Who has a problem with "Slicing unNerfed" and "Slicing nerfed" servers?

 

 

I find it hilarious that no one is answering a simple question. I'll put it this way: create "unNerfed Slicing" servers and I'll go on one.

 

The truth is that all people would choose the "Slicing unNerfed" servers, including the people who say it needed nerfing, proving that slicing needed no nerf.

 

Or are there people who would not transfer to "Slicing unNerfed" servers? Anyone?

 

What hypocrisy, lol. They know if they answer that they would transfer to the "unNerfed servers", they are admitting that slicing needed no nerf. If they answer that they would not transfer to "Slicing unNerfed servers", then they fear that Bioware might actually create such servers and they loathe allowing the casual players to play as the casual players see fit (besides, the nerf ragers would transfer anyway). They treasure their temporary achievement of tricking Bioware into a foolish nerf.

 

So, I've just proven that slicing needed no nerf Elementary.

 

So, to all the nerf ragers: Would you mind if Bioware created "Slicing unNerfed" servers so I and other casual players could transfer to one?

[KTheAlchemist]

This is how it has always been in all MMO's.

 

The flaw in your logic. I have found it.

[Canarith]

What nonsense? It's very simple to understand. A gathering skill is most productive through GATHERING. Not by doing missions. Lol. It's not something I created. This is how it has always been in all MMO's. This MMO is really the first one (to my knowledge) to introduce the mission method which IMO....(notice I am claiming that this is in fact JUST my opinion) Is just a means to continue to do a gathering/crafting skill while you're busy doing something else or can't find the nodes etc etc.

 

 

What I don't understand is how you can pretty much acknowledge that I am right yet continue to try and argue your case.

 

The problem is, you spend just as much time for no return, since everyone and their mother will be trying to sell that same item and be undercutting you, thus making no money for the time you spend. Plus a lot of times it is no time you spend since you send them out while doing missions you would be spending time on anyway.

[Artthen]

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[Ayern]

The reason why it is a problem is because it heavily inflates the in-game economy. If a new player comes along and wants to buy anything he will not be able to because established players will have just big pockets that the prices for anything low-level will be comparable to the average amount of available money.

 

To explain further, Lets say that they changed it back. Everyone would have millions and millions of credits. Those players would create alts and they would fund their alts with their extremely rich mains. Crafters would sell their good for ridiculous prices because they would know that the general player would have a main with lots of money. Suddenly a legitimately new player would not be able to afford the simplest of thing.

 

Regardless of what is, or has been done to slicing there will always be goldsellers. they will just sell their gold for different, proportionally equivalent prices.

 

I am not sure what you are basing your assumptions off of, but it has been proven that humans are pretty lazy. Making in game monies easy to get is the best way to stave off gold farmers and sellers, and all the bots, hacking and junk that comes with that ilk.

 

Further more, you say that 'legitimate' new players would not be able to afford anything I would ask you this; What exactly do they 'need' to spend credits on anyway? and why could they not take slicing? Your arguments make no sense to me. Slicing will not (in its original form) unbalance the economy, on the contrary it will keep it moving. People will sell mods and other crafted items and make profits. While people that hate crafting, can play and have fun, and still dump heaps of credits on the people that like crafting. Not seeing the downside here.

 

The proof is in the pudding. People are not buying off the Auction House nearly as much as they used to. Why you ask? because people can not spend money they do not have.

[Ayern]

A lot of people in WoW had a lot of gold. That didn't reduce the number of gold farmers.....

 

because even more people in that game didn't. If everyone has easy access to in game monies, then it heavily reduces the demand, therefore the farmers/sellers don't stick around long.

[Golarz]

.

Further more, you say that 'legitimate' new players would not be able to afford anything I would ask you this; What exactly do they 'need' to spend credits on anyway? and why could they not take slicing?.

 

Ayern made a very good point here. Further more, if this players take any other Crew Skill, they will be selling their products/mats at the current GTN prices. So it doesn't matter if lvl 10 blue gear cost 5k off the GTN becouse you will be makeing this kind of money even if you are new to the game one way or the other.