Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[KTheAlchemist]

Ive done everything ive needed to without slicing, BW nerfed it because they felt it was OP. Most of the people who are complaining here are slicers. People were depending on an OP money making profession and are hurting it got nerfed. No different to when people roll a FOTM class only to have it nerfed on them. You gotta accept that if your doing something so stand out as slicing was for money making - relative to the cost of things in game and other professions - its going to get nefed. Cop it on the chin or dont do it next time.

 

Did you do it "without slicing" selling items on a GTC stimulated by sliced credits?

 

Your terms such as "OP" are based on this predisposition that seems to stick in the minds of a lot of people...that you're playing WoW with a skin-swap, and that these sorts of metrics (such as "overpowered") must be based on the presumptions preceding MMOs have set up.

 

I'll say it again because you continually cherry-pick around this concept:

 

At level 50, the pre-nerf slicing income is not overpowered. There are plenty of other ways to make far more credits per hour.

 

It only seems high as you level, and helped drive a fledgling economy that would normally take a lot longer to establish, while providing an alternative to "play the GTC" for casual players leveling their first character.

 

Casual players leveling their first character will make or break this game.

Edited December 30, 2011 by KTheAlchemist

[drdovetalk]

The issue here is ppl don't understand what use is slicing now. What use is slicing ?

 

Picking up world nodes, use in FPs to avoid trash mobs, making augments and finding schematics (albeit unreliably for the last 2).

[KroganElite]

Dear BioWare,

 

If you thought slicing was overpowered, why choose to nerf it now? How many beta tests did you conduct? How many reports of slicing being overpowered in beta were received? How did a feature not working as intended make it into production? I believe you are not a negligent company to do so. Therefore, I am led to believe that this was changed because of the outcry of BAWWW. I hope that in future issues, you will not be so quick to sate the cries of the vocal uninformed minority and have more confidence in your well thought out game design decisions. Thank you for your time and have a nice day.

 

Sincerely,

A fan and a paying customer

Edited December 30, 2011 by KroganElite

[Repefe]

Picking up world nodes, use in FPs to avoid trash mobs, making augments and finding schematics (albeit unreliably for the last 2).

 

Why would I pick world nodes ... I can just kill mobs at one place instead of running around clicking nodes. FPs to avoid trash ... other gathering professions do the same thing. I can however see somebody in guild being forced to take the hit and get slicing for the sake of having all the possible ways for shortcuts available. Augments ... nobody really buys them, not at max level anyway. Schematics GTM is flooded with them ... most don't get sold in the 2 day period and end up being vendored.

[Mystchevious]

Slicing NEEDED to be nerfed. And if Bioware choose to Nerf it this hard to regulate it then so be it. But, now it does need a buff to make it a viable skill. As it stands it isn't one. It could be argued that you could use it for the augments but as it stands 99.9% of the augments are useless. They are either (randomly) the wrong level bracket, the wrong stat, or flat out weaker than random augments you can find on any vendor. So that's a moot point.

 

As to Slicing being "printed money' you are absolutely correct. It is in fact Printed money. However, if done properly it's slightly less effective than going out and killing mobs for an extended period of time. Aside from chinese gold farmers I personally have never met a person who enjoyed sitting at their computer with 40 other people in the same area camping mobs because they yielded the best returns on gold. (refference FFXI, WoW, ect.)

 

Crafting skills should return no profit? What are you on and where can I get some? If there is no viable gain from crafting skills "because it is done for you" then there is no point in having a crafting system at all. As it stands SW:ToR has an incredibly elaborate crafting system that costs you a ton of cash and time to create items that are subpar unless you are fortunate enough to pick up randomly or have a friend pick up a rare schematic that for some reason Actually is more usefull then the last green mission reward that gave you credits to take it. There has to be some profit, use, emotional satisfaction attached to this or it's a great big waste of time.

 

Nodes... You are kidding right? Do you remember playing WoW? There will never be enough nodes for a multi profession system which results in players spending HOURS if not DAYS FREAKING DAYS scavenging for enough material to make 1 bloody item. True the game isn't doing it for you but you just spent 3 days online playing SW:ToR to get 35 peices of aluminum to work your skill up or to make an item that will be replaced within in the next few quest chains because a random green is better. No really for the person that does this !!!Go outside. Look at the sky because FFS that's a waste of time.

 

In Summary

1. Slicing Needed to be nerfed

2. Slicing did not need to be nerfed that badly.

3. Crafting skills/Gathering skills/ Mission Skills need to have a positive return (if not in money then in use.)

 

Oh wait I'm still not done. !!!!!!

 

The economy in this game is horrible right now. As was mentioned earlier on people are having to either wait or pick and choose skills when they level up as a result of not having enough money Maybe they rack up a large repair bill as a result to deaths. Whic btw if things were being addressed in proper sequence Server stability and memory leaks are addressed first and not ballance or game economics (*cough groan*) But, money does go in to a money sink. Then again Bioware put in a ton of cute little fun items for purchase that no one will because Why would I spend 3k credits of my 50k credits when my skills cost 1k each to level, my repair bill is 500-2k after a few deaths, and my next bike skill is 100,000k (random number but I think it's not too far off.) 3k is the difference between having a 60sec stun (actually saw this happen) for robots (wich was needed at the time) and having a specialty item peice of equiptment that he hadnt' replaced for a few levels.

[Golarz]

Picking up world nodes, use in FPs to avoid trash mobs, making augments and finding schematics (albeit unreliably for the last 2).

 

Auguments are trash you can buy on GTN at half a prise of a mission becouse. And you can have the one you like not a random drop. Same goes for mission discoveries. People don't like to use their brain so they just right clik those in to GTN and use default price so anyone who actualy put some effort in to finding them first to see for how much they can sell tehm will undercut those prices anyway.

There are some nice schematics for ship upgrades cybers would buy becouse you can make some money out of them, rest is low level trash nobody wants becouse you can mod your favorite orange gear you got from quests. And you have like 20% to get one of those.

Is there a point to waste time and money to level up a skill just to skip few trash mobs in FP ? Not for me.

World nods - yeah, there is some profit in those if you don't have to go to far to get it.

Gray trash drops will give you more money.

[tweaq]

Whatever, i got better things to do than arguing points of view with someone on a forum. Clearly you've got ya neckbeard in a knot over the changes and im not bout to go agreeing with you just because you keep repeating things as if i hadnt read or understood what you've already said.

 

BW musnt be happy with slicing as they nerfed it. All the rest of this is just typical mmo post-nerf forum fallout from the people who it effected crying unfaries and foul play to paying customers, and the people who were getting by without saying its fine and qft.

 

I just hope BW are aware enough to realise that a large proportion of the people on forums are squeeky wheels, and represent a minority of the in-game community.

 

EDIT - KTheAlchemist that is.

Edited December 30, 2011 by tweaq

[Repefe]

Whatever, i got better things to do than arguing points of view with someone on a forum. Clearly you've got ya neckbeard in a knot over the changes and im not bout to go agreeing with you just because you keep repeating things as if i hadnt read or understood what you've already said.

 

BW musnt be happy with slicing as they nerfed it. All the rest of this is just typical mmo post-nerf forum fallout from the people who it effected crying unfaries and foul play to paying customers, and the people who were getting by without saying its fine and ****.

 

I just hope BW are aware enough to realise that a large proportion of the people on forums are squeeky wheels, and represent a minority of the in-game community.

 

Pity your post lack explanation why should anyone keep slicing after the nerf when other activities in game give you more.

[drdovetalk]

Augments and slicing-acquired schematics are el cheapo now because of too many slicers in the market. They will rise in price as players drop slicing to go to other non-FOTM crew skills.

 

Personally I'll hold onto my slicing for these reasons:

 

1. I've already leveled it to 400, so if I'm out in the field (e.g. doing Illum quests) and there's a slicing node on the ground, it's a simple matter to walk over and get some free money.

 

2. Secondly, it still have some minor utility to save time in FPs.

 

3. Thirdly, the entire economy is still in its infancy so it is too early to tell which crafting skill makes sense. Unlikely WoW where a mature economy allows transmutation alchemists to easily make a stable return.

 

4. Once the augment and schematic market stabilises over time, slicing may still be a profitable (on average) gambling mission.

 

 

But for the very near term, my alts will just go for bioanalysis, scavenging and archaeology. A zero cost, low risk and stable way to earn credits until the economy stabilises. You're out in the field leveling up anyway so there's almost zero time-cost to gather nearby nodes.

[RubberKal]

In addition to my other post http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=91503&page=155 I feel there is one more point I would like to make.

 

If I want to take Synthweaving, I need to take both Archeology and Underworld Trading to get most of the resourses I need to create product. This, especially early game, sent me broke rapidly, staring down the barrel of a 40k mount licence bill .. why should I struggle with something like this? I pay real money that I work hard for - I do not expect to struggle financially in a game, that I play casually for fun.

 

This is why the Slicing nerf upsets me most.

 

For those of you who talk about "the economy of the game" - I care not for economics in the real world, let alone in a game! All I care about in game is having fun - that is what I pay for after all.

 

RubberKal

[drdovetalk]

Rubber, if you played WoW on a new char and on a new server and you tried to do what you just said, you will also be strapped for cash most of the time.

 

This is because leveling a crafting skill at the same time and pace as you level is never going to be cheap. And you don't see folks in WoW complaining about that.

 

Your concern about expensive mount and skill costs is valid, but the solution is not pre-nerf slicing. It is lowering skill and mount costs.

[Aximand]

That was the problem with slicing pre-nerf. It was easy for someone at 15 to generate an enormous amount creds.

 

It was bad design that made it to release even when beta testers were reporting it needed to be toned down.

 

You're right, by level 25 on my Sith Warrior I had 200,000 credits. Know what I did with 160,000 of that? Bought speeder riding for four characters. One million credits isn't even that much in this game. Before slicing got hit, people were able to stay in the green on four characters or be fairly well off on one, now its just a hole to throw money into. It needed a fix, but it didn't need to be hit by some TNT.

[KTheAlchemist]

Whatever, i got better things to do than arguing points of view with someone on a forum. Clearly you've got ya neckbeard in a knot over the changes and im not bout to go agreeing with you just because you keep repeating things as if i hadnt read or understood what you've already said.

 

BW musnt be happy with slicing as they nerfed it. All the rest of this is just typical mmo post-nerf forum fallout from the people who it effected crying unfaries and foul play to paying customers, and the people who were getting by without saying its fine and qft.

 

I just hope BW are aware enough to realise that a large proportion of the people on forums are squeeky wheels, and represent a minority of the in-game community.

 

EDIT - KTheAlchemist that is.

 

And, your lack of logic pointed out, you resort to name-calling, and your true purpose...trolling...comes out. I am truly sorry I wasted any time on you. As a parting gift, I'll fix this for you.

 

I just hope BW are aware enough to realize that a large proportion of the people on the forums are squeaky wheels, and represent a minority of the in-game community, now that the other group of squeaky wheels got something nerfed that I either didn't care for, or am pretending to not care for to rake in the lulz.

 

There, fixed.

Edited December 30, 2011 by KTheAlchemist

[mynimoe]

I dont get why people keep calling it a "hole to throw money into". It's just like any other gathering skill now. You run missions at a cost to get mats and levels and you get free mats from nodes. It's no different from any other resource garnering crew skill now. If you think that it's just a money sink now then you must think that all crafting is for getting rid of excess credits as well. I think the problem is that people thought that it was suppose to be a stand alone skill and it's sole purpose was to be a money tree so to speak. Edited December 30, 2011 by mynimoe

[KTheAlchemist]

I dont get why people keep calling it a "hole to throw money into" It's just like any other gathering skill now. You run missions at a cost to get mats and levels. And you get free mats from nodes. It's no different from any other resource garnering crew skill now. If you think that it's just a money sink now then you must think that all crafting is for getting rid of excess credits as well. I think the problem is that people thought that it was suppose to be a stand alone skill and it's so purpose was to be a money tree so to speak.

 

Except there are no "mats". The only thing of ANY real value slicing currently produces are missions and schematics, and these are a rare-drop "bonus" rather than the primary return of the skill. Augments have shown themselves to be low-grade vendorbait without any real demand in the market.

 

The primary purpose/return of the skill was credits. No credits. no purpose.

Edited December 30, 2011 by KTheAlchemist

[Tvcouch]

Why not use level caps and limit one slicing mission per character or even account at any given time. this way stopping gold farming and sets a steady growth of income as you level for the lazy people. (pre nerf+some adjustments) Edited December 30, 2011 by Tvcouch

[mynimoe]

Except there are no "mats". The only thing of ANY value slicing currently produces are missions and schematics, and these are a rare-drop "bonus" rather than the primary return of the skill.

 

The primary purpose/return of the skill was credits. No credits. no purpose.

 

It doesnt change the fact that it is a GATHERING skill. That is what is known as a key-word. You make money by gathering nodes. That is how it is/was intended to function. If someone can't understand that then I don't know how to explain it any further. People complaining about their ability to understand semantics is not going to make the skill go back to the way it was.

Edited December 30, 2011 by mynimoe

[KTheAlchemist]

It doesnt change the fact that it is a GATHERING skill. That is what is known as a key-word. You make money by gathering nodes. That is how it is/was intended to function. If someone can't understand that then I don't know how to explain it any further. People complainin about their ability to understand semantics is not going to make the skill go back to the way it was.

 

 

In this, you're showing a bit of your preconceptions. You've let a simple word take over your entire set of expectations and presumptions about the skill.

 

Other gathering skills return more simply by missioning. People have pointed this out time and again by showing the simply monetary value, *from vendors* even and therefore measurable in a concrete fashion, of items returned by high level gathering MISSIONS of other types. They blow slicing out of the water.

 

You claim it's been brought in line, but this is short sighted. At max level, slicing is actually outperformed in terms of MISSION returns, by a longshot.

Edited December 30, 2011 by KTheAlchemist

[ryancwn]

Augments and slicing-acquired schematics are el cheapo now because of too many slicers in the market.

 

Wrong, augment is dirt cheap because exceptional gear (gear with augment slot) are rare. I checked the AH daily and I've seen less than 5 exceptional gear on my server. Not to mention they are not orange so they will be replace sooner or later. The demand for augment is tooo few that the amount of supply doesn't matter right now. Even if there are only 1 slicer on the server, I wouldn't even buy the augment from him unless Its a level 50 augments and I have an lv 50 augment slot gear.

[DarthMalet]

Considering alot of us have a wasted profession at 400, maybe the most fair approach would be to just reset all profession values so everyone starts at 1 again so that everyones time has been wasted equally.

 

 

 

 

=D

[mynimoe]

In this, you're showing a bit of your preconceptions. You've let a simple word take over your entire set of expectations and presumptions about the skill.

 

Other gathering skills return more simply by missioning. People have pointed this out time and again by showing the simply monetary value, *from vendors* even and therefore measurable in a concrete fashion, of items returned by high level gathering MISSIONS of other types. They blow slicing out of the water.

 

 

I haven't let myself be taken over by anything. I just understand how it's suppose to work. I don't know where you get your facts but missions for Archaeology and Treasure hunting rarely produce a profit outright. Most of the time they return cheap mats that are needed to produce other goods. Yes you can sell those mats to a vendor and pretty much break even but thats only because these crafting skills are intended to contribute to other skills. Slicing as you say, is not intended to contribute to anything and is suppose to be a stand alone gathering skill. The answer is staring you in the face. The missions are meant to be a method of gaining levels without nodes. You have to pay for it, and you rarely get a profitable return from it....just like other gathering mission skills (i.e. archaeology, and treasure hunting). The way that you really make money through slicing is by accessing nodes. Plain and simple.

[KTheAlchemist]

I haven't let myself be taken over by anything. I just understand how it's suppose to work. I don't know where you get your facts but missions for Archaeology and Treasure hunting rarely produce a profit outright. Most of the time they return cheap mats that are needed to produce other goods. Yes you can sell those mats to a vendor and pretty much break even but thats only because these crafting skills are intended to contribute to other skills. Slicing as you say, is not intended to contribute to anything and is suppose to be a stand alone gathering skill. The answer is staring you in the face. The missions are meant to be a method of gaining levels without nodes. You have to pay for it, and you rarely get a profitable return from it....just like other gathering mission skills (i.e. archaeology, and treasure hunting). The way that you really make money through slicing is by accessing nodes. Plain and simple.

 

So slicing gets to only get any positive, helpful result from nodes, while other gathering skills can get what they need to fuel their primary skill on top of the expenditure?

 

And why is any one supposed to take slicing again, if that's the case? Why should slicing even be in the game at that point?

[Necrolepsy]

I dropped slicing, it's basically the engineering of SWTOR. More of a fun profession to skip obstacles etc in ops/dungeons but not really useful aside from getting missions.

[Volki]

Why though? Seperate servers for 1 profession remaining OP? Goodluck with that. Its so easy making money with the other ones anyway its just that people got used to literally doing nothing for massive rewards... If the game came out with slicing like its safe to say that the majority of people who arent happy now wouldnt care as they would have found another way to get credits.

 

It was clear it was going to get nerfed, and its exactly why i didnt take it up. Its unfortunate that it was overlooked for release but shiver-me-timbers happens mate.

 

Ive made a fair bit from biochem on my sin and even synthweaving on my sage. Just not 100,000's like broken slicing was.

 

But you still haven't answered my question.

[mynimoe]

So slicing gets to only get any positive, helpful result from nodes, while other gathering skills can get what they need to fuel their primary skill on top of the expenditure?

 

And why is any one supposed to take slicing again, if that's the case? Why should slicing even be in the game at that point?

 

 

This is taken from http://www.swtorcrewskills.com

 

"Slicing gives you the ability to "hack" into secured computer systems and also lockboxes to retrieve and steal information and blueprints. These can act as "Recipes" to create items through your crafting crew skills"

 

This is what you get from slicing. The purpose of slicing as a gathering skill is to produce a small return of credits but its main purpose is to provide schematics for other skills. It's an auxillary skill.