Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[LeperJack]

Because we must continue to play MMO's the way we've always played them. And this must occur FOR ALL TIME. It's a sad day when "uphill both ways in the snow when I was your age blah blah yackety smackety" talk can actually transfer from previous games to an entirely new one.

 

Clear your mind of presumptions and ask yourself WHY it must be a certain way. Why must playing the AH be the only way to a self-sustaining income while leveling?

 

Well playing the AH wasn't the only way to a self sustaining income... until tuesday. Slicing was an excellent option.

 

Now the AH is shut down for all intents and purposes, because the slicers (your money producing customer base) have no money and aren't buying. So...

 

Your options for a self-sustaining income while levelling have become: space missions. >_>

 

You can probably still sell off gathered mats for the next few days, maybe a week or two, but you're going to run out of customers in short order.

[Kotli]

There is nothing wrong with making money, there is something wrong with making money by pressing a single button. If slicing was kept the way it was, then soon everyone would have slicing, or slicing alts. Then the cash flow in the game would mean things are adjusted to it, and everyone would NEED to have slicing just to get through.

 

Would the game still work? Sure! But it would work under the assumption that slicing is required. If that was the case, then everyone should have slicing as an extra skill, and not as one of their 3 trade skills.

 

nope that not really true it's was a like adding a few raindrop to a lake compared to other credit generators/consumers at lvl 50.

 

IE it a nice bonus when levelling and yes needed on your first char (due to stupidly high costs of everything training speeders etc). But needed on every char nope.

[SacredPanda]

There is nothing wrong with making money, there is something wrong with making money by pressing a single button.

 

Do you realize how ridiculous this statement is? We're playing a video game. All any of us are doing is pushing a button.

 

The fact is, your way of thought is locked down by games you've played before, and thus can't accept a new idea. Anything new that doesn't work the way you're used to must therefore be wrong, and needs to be 'fixed' to your standard.

 

Personally, I think this game is much to similar to WoW. Slicing was one thing i really liked because it gave a new player access to funds with which to keep their character up to date, which other games lacked. But now that no longer exists. So I see I'm left with a WoW clone with a linear progression path. Maybe you like that idea, but I don't.

[VioletZero]

Dozens of threads. Thousands of posts. 0 response from BioWare.

 

90 days from now they'll all be sitting in their little board room, scratching their heads, wondering why everyone quit. Somewhere... John Smedley is laughing his butt off at all of this.

 

They're not legally obligated to give you a response.

 

And just because you don't see a response doesn't mean that they aren't paying attention.

[LeperJack]

Now that people are dropping slicing because it is "broken", then you should see some competition. Which is also good for the economy overall.

Uh...

 

Are you getting your economic tips from fortune cookies and crackerjack boxes? I'm not trying to be condescending, but you keep spouting little "truisms" that aren't always true.

 

Competition is good for an economy in a thriving, healthy market with large amounts of cash flow. The current economy is not thriving, it is not healthy, and it does not have much cash flow at all.

 

500 people trying to sell the same thing when no one is buying does not make a healthy economy. it makes for ludicrous deflation to the point that vendoring gained items yields less of a loss (and it is most assuredly a loss) than attempting to bring them to market, at which point there is simply no reason to craft or gather at all.

 

Deflation is not always good. Inflation is not always bad. Competition is not always good.

[LeperJack]

The bottom line is that now slicing function like the other 3 gathering skills : sending crew on a mission bring you to zero or near credits. To get credits positive you have to get the money from resource points.

 

Except that it is not at all like them.

 

 

I made (and despite a market downturn am still making) money off of scavenging missions. I get about a 500% profit from rich yield scavenging missions. For me, that means I run two rich yield and then set aside the next for my own crafting.

 

I make money gathering.

I make money crafting.

I make less money slicing, and always have.

[Raximillian]

Uh...

 

Are you getting your economic tips from fortune cookies and crackerjack boxes? I'm not trying to be condescending, but you keep spouting little "truisms" that aren't always true.

 

Competition is good for an economy in a thriving, healthy market with large amounts of cash flow. The current economy is not thriving, it is not healthy, and it does not have much cash flow at all.

 

500 people trying to sell the same thing when no one is buying does not make a healthy economy. it makes for ludicrous deflation to the point that vendoring gained items yields less of a loss (and it is most assuredly a loss) than attempting to bring them to market, at which point there is simply no reason to craft or gather at all.

 

Deflation is not always good. Inflation is not always bad. Competition is not always good.

 

The game has been out for 2 weeks... 2 weeks.... You expect a full thriving economy to be working in 2 weeks? Really?

 

Complete economies are not built overnight. People are still leveling, doing a little crafting etc. Give the game some time, and the economy will flourish... I'm actually more worried about vendors selling mods for commendations, that is a more direct impact to crafters.

[VioletZero]

Uh...

 

Are you getting your economic tips from fortune cookies and crackerjack boxes? I'm not trying to be condescending, but you keep spouting little "truisms" that aren't always true.

 

Competition is good for an economy in a thriving, healthy market with large amounts of cash flow. The current economy is not thriving, it is not healthy, and it does not have much cash flow at all.

 

500 people trying to sell the same thing when no one is buying does not make a healthy economy. it makes for ludicrous deflation to the point that vendoring gained items yields less of a loss (and it is most assuredly a loss) than attempting to bring them to market, at which point there is simply no reason to craft or gather at all.

 

Deflation is not always good. Inflation is not always bad. Competition is not always good.

 

Deflation is necessary in this case because the amount of credits floating around was far ahead of what was intended.

 

So it was too easy to get the money to buy things from vendors. Credits necessary to buy things like speeders, training, repairs, etc is something you're meant to work for instead of it just being handed to you.

[myrken]

The game has been out for 2 weeks... 2 weeks.... You expect a full thriving economy to be working in 2 weeks? Really?

 

Complete economies are not built overnight. People are still leveling, doing a little crafting etc. Give the game some time, and the economy will flourish... I'm actually more worried about vendors selling mods for commendations, that is a more direct impact to crafters.

 

True which is another reason this nerf was unwarranted.

[Kotli]

UWT/DI/THINV are not a gathering skill. They are a rare material mission skill. You *cannot* compare the two however you wish.

 

The 4 which are on the same level are as Gathering skill :

scavenging

bioanalysis

slicing

archeology

 

From those 4 ONLY slicing made money from doing the mission ! The other you spent more money to get the material than it would get you if you SOLD the material. Sure you can then use the material to craft and sell stuff, but again at more cost and time, and this involve using a crafting skill and more often than not to be sellable a mission skill to get the rare materials. You are downright misrepresenting stuff if you compare the time invested into gathering+getting rare mats+crafting to only gathering(slicing).

 

Now if people are selling the mission material from UWT/DIP/INV/TH very expansively, much more than they cost them, this is a question of offer and demand and a totally different problem to slicing.

 

The bottom line is that now slicing function like the other 3 gathering skills : sending crew on a mission bring you to zero or near credits. To get credits positive you have to get the money from resource points.

 

Umm but Slicing is not a gathering skill like the *others* as it product is not consumed by other professions. Or is an Augment used to make something? Do you need lockboxes to make things? None of the other "gathering skills" produce a finished product.

 

TBH it got more in common with Treasure hunting than scavenging, bioanalysis or archeology in terms of how what it produces is used.

[Raximillian]

nope that not really true it's was a like adding a few raindrop to a lake compared to other credit generators/consumers at lvl 50.

 

IE it a nice bonus when levelling and yes needed on your first char (due to stupidly high costs of everything training speeders etc). But needed on every char nope.

 

Not if they balance the game to slicing... That's the problem. If you look at slicing as just slicing, then it's fine. There really was nothing wrong with it. If you place it besides all other skills, then it was out of line.

 

I do not want BW balancing the whole economy around a single gathering skill... That would be terrible design.

[SacredPanda]

Umm but Slicing is not a gathering skill like the *others* as it product is not consumed by other professions. Or is an Augment used to make something? Do you need lockboxes to make things? None of the other "gathering skills" produce a finished product.

 

Show me a crew skill that doesn't use credits?

 

No?

 

Then I would argue that it in fact provided materials used for EVERY other skill.

[Raximillian]

True which is another reason this nerf was unwarranted.

 

No, it is precisely now that it was needed. Actually, it should have been done in beta. Was the economy ruined? Nope. But it probably would have been ruined if they had kept it as it is for a year or so.

 

Making a single skill a "must have" skill and balancing around it is not good game design. Better just balance the skill to put it in like with the rest of the skills and the economy.

[myrken]

Umm but Slicing is not a gathering skill like the *others* as it product is not consumed by other professions. Or is an Augment used to make something? Do you need lockboxes to make things? None of the other "gathering skills" produce a finished product.

 

TBH it got more in common with Treasure hunting than scavenging, bioanalysis or archeology in terms of how what it produces is used.

 

That's a very narrow view of what slicing affects overall in game it is a gathering skill its a cred gathering and augment gathering skill. those credits in turn end up supporting AH sales that other players in other professions chose instead of slicing and thus the wheels keep turning smoothly. Now its not the only way to get credits but by having a steady stream from slicing flowing into the AH people sell more and get more credits themselves.

 

In short any intelligent crafter should be on these forums screaming "UNNERF SLICING YOUR CUTTING INTO MY PROFIT MARGINS"

Edited December 29, 2011 by myrken

[LeperJack]

Deflation is necessary in this case because the amount of credits floating around was far ahead of what was intended.

 

So it was too easy to get the money to buy things from vendors. Credits necessary to buy things like speeders, training, repairs, etc is something you're meant to work for instead of it just being handed to you.

Am I confusing people, or was it you that was talking about preconceived notions a few posts back? Are we supposed to abandon our preconceptions, or just abandon any thought, idea, or opinion (even if based on sound study of centuries of economoic behavior) that disagree with your preconceptions?

 

you're upset because your level 25 speeder was "cheap?" Tell them to jack up the price. Hell, if you want to "work for it so bad, go buy an extra hundred thousand worth of vendored items and then destroy them all so you'll have a harder time, then YOUR preconceived notions don't need to screw with how WE have fun.

 

When you finally get to level 40 and want to get the upgrade, come back and tell me how cheap that was. When you're 50 and paying 25-35k for repairs, come back and tell me how cheap that is. When you're level 45 and haven't trained a skill since 40, come back and tell me how awesome and fun it is and how that's just how its intended--you needed to "work for it."

 

 

I'm trying very hard not to be rude about this, but you're coming off not only as incredibly hypocritical, but also massively ignorant of how the game actually functions beyond the first few hours of game play.

Edited December 29, 2011 by LeperJack

[DustomaticGXC]

My only hope is that Bioware re-evaluates Slicing when the economy has changed from everyone being 50 and other gathering skills have begun to provide more income than they currently do (because everyone is still leveling and not spending money on alts).

[myrken]

No, it is precisely now that it was needed. Actually, it should have been done in beta. Was the economy ruined? Nope. But it probably would have been ruined if they had kept it as it is for a year or so.

 

Making a single skill a "must have" skill and balancing around it is not good game design. Better just balance the skill to put it in like with the rest of the skills and the economy.

 

Um for reference it was nerfed once in beta.

 

So this would be the second nerf on slicing.

Edited December 29, 2011 by myrken

[VioletZero]

My only hope is that Bioware re-evaluates Slicing when the economy has changed from everyone being 50 and other gathering skills have begun to provide more income than they currently do (because everyone is still leveling and not spending money on alts).

 

Personally, I am excited to see an economy where it is actually difficult to manage your credits.

 

This was such a good aspect in RFO.

[myrken]

Personally, I am excited to see an economy where it is actually difficult to manage your credits.

 

This was such a good aspect in RFO.

 

Didn't that game i dunno "die"

[Raximillian]

My only hope is that Bioware re-evaluates Slicing when the economy has changed from everyone being 50 and other gathering skills have begun to provide more income than they currently do (because everyone is still leveling and not spending money on alts).

 

Completely agree. The current nerf is balanced with the current incomplete economy. BW should constantly review gains from slicing so it is always balanced with other skills.

 

BW should really change slicing to give something else apart from lockboxes. It will bite them hard in the end because credits are just too visible and hold a direct value.

[LeperJack]

Didn't that game i dunno "die"

 

Yes, because for the majority of the audience, it was massively unfun.

 

But, it's kinda fun for a minority, and to that minority, that is what's important, apparently.

[VioletZero]

Didn't that game i dunno "die"

 

Yes. But that was mostly due to the mountain of other issues the game had.

 

Mostly due to its massively incompetent developer.

 

But there were two things that were really good. The PvP and the economy.

Edited December 29, 2011 by VioletZero

[Raximillian]

Um for reference it was nerfed once in beta.

 

So this would be the second nerf on slicing.

 

Yeah, I remember all the beta stories about slicing being too good. They should have looked at it a bit more in beta

[myrken]

Tempted to flash mob Bioware studios with people with nerf guns anyone in raise your hands O_o/

[LeperJack]

Yeah, I remember all the beta stories about slicing being too good. They should have looked at it a bit more in beta

 

*headdesk*

 

It actually wasn't "too good" in beta. There were just a lot of whiny people who didn't want to take slicing that were upset that someone was buying their goods to give them money, and they didn't just have credits appear in their pockets while they chucked money out a window.

 

Exactly like now.

 

The difference in between the nerf then and the nerf now is that the economy now is still incredibly young and unstable and did not have the larger surplus of credits to fall back on, nor were the starting values appropriate for keeping an economy going on the higher end. 400 slicing was providing laughable returns for anyone in the 40s.

 

But because you don't have the progress now that you did then, you wind up with things like... people having less money saved up to spend on GTN purchases, so crafters and gatherers make even less money than they did before--assuming they try to sell anything and don't just keep whining that their constant Reverse Engineering and buying up every schematic they can get regardless of use or value and not making any attempt to sell anything, that money doesn't magically appear in their pocket along with the other considerable gains they're getting from progressing a crafting skill.