Make HM/NIM mount drop in SM as well

[FerkWork]

I want a pony

[ivanhedgehog]

I want a pony

 

A purple power pony of perpetual pain?

 

 

sorry, we are out of stock on those.

[merovejec]

I think there is nothing wrong to open it to the casuals, just like EC NIM to us in 3.0 era. It shouldn't have been on the top tier anymore otherwise it's hurting both sides, raiders don't want to keep on such old content, and casuals still got blocked by it.

 

Heh the raiders still have a reputation to keep, something to show that they DID it. Mounts and titles do that for example. Yes, the ops content in the game is bad but why even take away the last piece of joy the raiders have over the casuals? That would make stuff worse.

 

There was this one time when 2 guys on TRE server started spreading fake info that Brontes wings dropped on SM! This was actually very interesting. The news spread really fast as it was asfter a patch where Decos started droping in SM. Raiders where doing sales runs for hundreds of millions of credits for them. People were furious and talking about quiting!

 

And right now even the raiders don't want to spend time on such old content, it is time to change and open it to the casuals.

 

Do you watch twitch for example? What are the raiders doing? They are running this old content! Yes! They killed Tyth and the Sisters and go back to killing Styrak and Brontes! They still do it cause of many reasons. Like gear, new recruits etc.

 

I don't care about others getting it or not, I hope I could get into the NIM ops with level sync off and get it.

 

Well if you dont care so much why make this post? Why not work on " I could get into the NIM ops" ?

[Foambreaker]

A purple power pony of perpetual pain?

 

 

sorry, we are out of stock on those.

 

That's because everyone else has one

 

It's not fair I should get one two, I did the class mission on DK!!!!!!!!!!

[Slowpokeking]

Heh the raiders still have a reputation to keep, something to show that they DID it. Mounts and titles do that for example. Yes, the ops content in the game is bad but why even take away the last piece of joy the raiders have over the casuals? That would make stuff worse.

 

There was this one time when 2 guys on TRE server started spreading fake info that Brontes wings dropped on SM! This was actually very interesting. The news spread really fast as it was asfter a patch where Decos started droping in SM. Raiders where doing sales runs for hundreds of millions of credits for them. People were furious and talking about quiting!

Nothing, including "Reputation" is a reason to not let others get something. Again, those people should get a life if they want to use a video game achievement to show they are better than others. It would not keep them to play the game at all, only make the content less and less popular because you blocked one side from getting in and the other side got bored of it. This is why WOW and other games, including SWTOR had to make old content easier to prevent nobody doing it anymore

 

If I'm a raider, I wouldn't care a bit about these things. All I would care is new content to roll out, if there is no new content, I will lose interest of this game.

 

 

Do you watch twitch for example? What are the raiders doing? They are running this old content! Yes! They killed Tyth and the Sisters and go back to killing Styrak and Brontes! They still do it cause of many reasons. Like gear, new recruits etc.

I'm not saying nobody is doing them anymore.

 

But overall, old content is not keeping players there. The raider community is keep bleeding because old content is not holding them anymore. Tell me, did it go well since KotFE? DId the number of the raiders go up or down?

 

 

Well if you dont care so much why make this post? Why not work on " I could get into the NIM ops" ?

I made this post to tell what I would like to see that's all. I want something but some people want "others don't have something", this is the different.

[phalczen]

WHY do you care about what others get?

 

They MAY care because of a pride issue, but have you considered they care because, as I said in my post, the value of an older, undertuned MM op is measured more by its incentives than its challenge, and devaluing any end-game content is a risk that perhaps the Devs shouldn't take?

 

Now, the Devs are aware of the metrics of the playerbase. Maybe if they added MM mounts as scaled chance drops to easier modes then more players as a whole would do operations, which in turn may make the playerbase more hungry for operations in general, and give the Devs incentive to make that type of content beyond the final boss of Gods of the Machine (Scyva, I presume, if the mythology holds.) The Devs would have to weigh the risk of losing current top-tier end game players with the benefit of creating more operations players as a whole, and that the current top-end players will be replaced with other talented folks once they "get the operations bug." There is precedent for the notion of making ops accessible, in this game, because the Devs have done a lot to get people doing operations, even while focusing on "story story story." Just look at the "Highlighted Hard Mode" concept of 4.0. Look at the current promotions this week of pairing extra Operations GC bonus days with double CXP week.

 

That may be the only design reason to do what you are proposing. But its a risk. As I admitted, I would clearly benefit from the change you are proposing, but whether the game as a whole is hurt, that's an unknown.

[Toraak]

I'd suggest stop wasting your breath on this thread. since the one who seems to be arguing for NiM mounts to be in SM/HM Ops is also the same one who months ago had a thread for Solo operations so he (or she) didn't need to group to complete the Dread master story line.

 

NiM mounts are there for those that A) want challenge, but also B) for something special for those the manage to COMPLETE such difficult content. People that can't do that content can always Learn, and master the class they want to play just like anyone else. Thos mounts shouldn't be altered for easier content.

 

 

Remember this is coming from someone that NEVER got the mounts during the time I was doing NiM Operations during the 2.0 cycle. I should get them if I don't EARN them.

[Slowpokeking]

They MAY care because of a pride issue, but have you considered they care because, as I said in my post, the value of an older, undertuned MM op is measured more by its incentives than its challenge, and devaluing any end-game content is a risk that perhaps the Devs shouldn't take?

Actually, devaluing old content is necessary. Because otherwise it loses its old consumer and casuals couldn't get in so it dies. Do you think it's still possible to gather 40 ppl to try MC for months like in the vanilla era? NO. See the problem?

 

THIS is why WOW and other MMO do it, this, is why SWTOR do it before 3.0.

 

Why didn't they do it in 4.0 and 5.0? Because no.new. content.

 

 

Now, the Devs are aware of the metrics of the playerbase. Maybe if they added MM mounts as scaled chance drops to easier modes then more players as a whole would do operations, which in turn may make the playerbase more hungry for operations in general, and give the Devs incentive to make that type of content beyond the final boss of Gods of the Machine (Scyva, I presume, if the mythology holds.) The Devs would have to weigh the risk of losing current top-tier end game players with the benefit of creating more operations players as a whole, and that the current top-end players will be replaced with other talented folks once they "get the operations bug." There is precedent for the notion of making ops accessible, in this game, because the Devs have done a lot to get people doing operations, even while focusing on "story story story." Just look at the "Highlighted Hard Mode" concept of 4.0. Look at the current promotions this week of pairing extra Operations GC bonus days with double CXP week.

Again, they are losing top-tier end game players since KotFE due to lack of new content. Regardless of those old content's quality, they are old, ppl don't want to do them over and over again for years. On the other side, casuals don't have new ops to play either. Now they had to stuck with SM and EV/KP HM again, maybe try some other HM sometimes. It's nowhere close to a good state. What we need is new content or at least more options, like turning the level sync off.

 

 

That may be the only design reason to do what you are proposing. But its a risk. As I admitted, I would clearly benefit from the change you are proposing, but whether the game as a whole is hurt, that's an unknown.

The raid status of this game is already bad(especially before the new ops) and need some serious changes. It makes no use to rely on 3-4 years content to keep the raiders and still block casuals from it.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

I'd suggest stop wasting your breath on this thread. since the one who seems to be arguing for NiM mounts to be in SM/HM Ops is also the same one who months ago had a thread for Solo operations so he (or she) didn't need to group to complete the Dread master story line.

 

NiM mounts are there for those that A) want challenge, but also B) for something special for those the manage to COMPLETE such difficult content. People that can't do that content can always Learn, and master the class they want to play just like anyone else. Thos mounts shouldn't be altered for easier content.

 

Remember this is coming from someone that NEVER got the mounts during the time I was doing NiM Operations during the 2.0 cycle. I should get them if I don't EARN them.

Toss those away, even the raiders got bored with these content. They aren't brand new, they are very old ops, which is why I'm asking that.

[phalczen]

I'd suggest stop wasting your breath on this thread. since the one who seems to be arguing for NiM mounts to be in SM/HM Ops is also the same one who months ago had a thread for Solo operations so he (or she) didn't need to group to complete the Dread master story line.

 

Well, that's a little different, since that is a story element. As you know there is precedent in game with the prelude and SoR flashpoints, and the four Revan/Foundry related flashpoints. Heck there's even precedent with the two different versions of getting to the returned Revan at the end of SoR. That's not a reason to discredit this idea.

[Toraak]

Well, that's a little different, since that is a story element. As you know there is precedent in game with the prelude and SoR flashpoints, and the four Revan/Foundry related flashpoints. Heck there's even precedent with the two different versions of getting to the returned Revan at the end of SoR. That's not a reason to discredit this idea.

 

My point was that the argument wasn't worth it, simply because he or she already shows us that he or she didn't even want to work to do a SM Operation to see the storyline, let alone put in the effort for NiM (master mode) operations

 

which also show's how entitled he or she is.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Toraak

[phalczen]

Actually, devaluing old content is necessary. Because otherwise it loses its old consumer and casuals couldn't get in so it dies. Do you think it's still possible to gather 40 ppl to try MC for months like in the vanilla era? NO. See the problem?

 

I think you are confusing devaluing the content as a whole with simplifying the content to make it more accessible.

 

Simplifying the MM ops has occurred in three ways ... First, the removal of the nightmare power buff, second the addition of Crystals of Nightmare Fury, and third from the natural character power gain associated with gaining actives, passives, and utilities from new character levels and not changing the encounters to account for those new powers.

 

Simplifying a MM op makes it more ACCESSIBLE ... but it doesn't add an incentive. The challenge (however simplified), the titles, and the loot are the incentives. They could make MM Brontes as easy as story mode. But if there were no incentives to actually run the op, it has no value. Making Helix Hyperpod or Titan 6 Containment Vehicle or Covert Getaway 100% drops in the highest difficulty would be adding an incentive to do those difficulty modes. Making those things available to everyone in the raid group is a mixed bag: its a disincentive to do repeat runs.

 

But adding those mounts to Story mode versions only adds incentive to do the Story modes ... and removes incentive to do the MMs. Why practice my rotation, why tinker with my utilities, why work on BiS gear, when I can just grind out SMs and eventually I'll get it?

 

I think that however small the remaining master mode raiding community is, part of why they stay and do the older operations could be the incentives currently there. Maybe its 25% of why they stay, maybe its 75%, I don't know. But take away the incentive and the op has dropped in value.

[rantboi]

Toss those away, even the raiders got bored with these content. They aren't brand new, they are very old ops, which is why I'm asking that.

 

they're not old for people who are new to the game or just new to ops. stop talking like everyone who does nim ops has been doing them for years, there's still new people just getting into them now.

[Slowpokeking]

I think you are confusing devaluing the content as a whole with simplifying the content to make it more accessible.

 

Simplifying the MM ops has occurred in three ways ... First, the removal of the nightmare power buff, second the addition of Crystals of Nightmare Fury, and third from the natural character power gain associated with gaining actives, passives, and utilities from new character levels and not changing the encounters to account for those new powers.

 

No, none of these are necessary at all, just remove the level sync and we are good.

 

Simplifying a MM op makes it more ACCESSIBLE ... but it doesn't add an incentive. The challenge (however simplified), the titles, and the loot are the incentives. They could make MM Brontes as easy as story mode. But if there were no incentives to actually run the op, it has no value. Making Helix Hyperpod or Titan 6 Containment Vehicle or Covert Getaway 100% drops in the highest difficulty would be adding an incentive to do those difficulty modes. Making those things available to everyone in the raid group is a mixed bag: its a disincentive to do repeat runs.

It does, ppl who wanted it but didn't want to raid would go to play them. Just like NIM EC had a lot of players running it to get what they once couldn't touch. They are old to raiders but not old to these casuals.

 

 

But adding those mounts to Story mode versions only adds incentive to do the Story modes ... and removes incentive to do the MMs. Why practice my rotation, why tinker with my utilities, why work on BiS gear, when I can just grind out SMs and eventually I'll get it?

Higher dropping chance+better loot. Simple.

 

Also, just give the option to remove the level sync would solve it all, no need to add it in SM as well.

 

 

I think that however small the remaining master mode raiding community is, part of why they stay and do the older operations could be the incentives currently there. Maybe its 25% of why they stay, maybe its 75%, I don't know. But take away the incentive and the op has dropped in value.

If I am a raider and I couldn't beat a 3 years old ops to get a 100% drop mount especially during the easier 3.0 cycle, then I would seriously quit raiding because I'm no good at it. Even KotFE has been released for 1 year+ 9 months dude. And nobody is stopping them to continue to do the NIM ops to get it.

 

Actually, making these accessible to casuals would benefit a lot more on the other side. Just like in WOW, they don't hold the old content for a tiny percent of ppl and block the majority who wanted to have a easy walk with it.

[Slowpokeking]

My point was that the argument wasn't worth it, simply because he or she already shows us that he or she didn't even want to work to do a SM Operation to see the storyline, let alone put in the effort for NiM (master mode) operations

 

which also show's how entitled he or she is.

 

I played SM many times before and finished HM actually.

[Slowpokeking]

they're not old for people who are new to the game or just new to ops. stop talking like everyone who does nim ops has been doing them for years, there's still new people just getting into them now.

 

New to the game? Let me break your bubble.

 

Firstly, MMO is not as popular as years ago, even WOW is keep losing its population.

 

Raid is not as popular as years ago, it's also easy to see. Ppl prefer some quick drop in content now.

 

Then let's talk about SWTOR

 

What was SWTOR famous for?

 

The IP, the story, the voice over. Its raid isn't bad but not as a major focus like some other MMOs.

 

Both KotFE and KotET's major selling point are their story.

 

Since KotFE, there are only 2 new raid encounters over a 20+month cycle, even GW2 could beat it with ease.

 

How many new raiders are going to come to a story focused game which provide little new raid content, when MMO and raid are already not as popular as years ago?

 

Seriously nobody is dumb enough to see how bad did the raid community go through the KotFE cycle, did you see new blood fill up? NO. There are new raid players but the overall raid base was keep going down, and only got a bit better due to the new content.

 

See how invalid your point is? I guess you would still ask ppl to form a 40 men group to run MC for months if they want anything right?

[Slowpokeking]

This has also been a concern of me.

 

As a game you got to grab your core group rather than trying to hold everyone, it's not going to work.

 

KotFE is story based, which means ppl who stayed are mostly casuals. Why put forced level sync on every ops to limit this group's content? When you decide to go this direction, you got to hold this major group. The raiders aren't gonna be happy without new content regardless if you bring the old ones back or not. They made a story focused expansion but at the same time try to take away the old ops from the casuals to please the raiders, which isn't going to work either.

[rantboi]

New to the game? Let me break your bubble.

 

Firstly, MMO is not as popular as years ago, even WOW is keep losing its population.

 

Raid is not as popular as years ago, it's also easy to see. Ppl prefer some quick drop in content now.

 

Then let's talk about SWTOR

 

What was SWTOR famous for?

 

The IP, the story, the voice over. Its raid isn't bad but not as a major focus like some other MMOs.

 

Both KotFE and KotET's major selling point are their story.

 

Since KotFE, there are only 2 new raid encounters over a 20+month cycle, even GW2 could beat it with ease.

 

How many new raiders are going to come to a story focused game which provide little new raid content, when MMO and raid are already not as popular as years ago?

 

Seriously nobody is dumb enough to see how bad did the raid community go through the KotFE cycle, did you see new blood fill up? NO. There are new raid players but the overall raid base was keep going down, and only got a bit better due to the new content.

 

See how invalid your point is? I guess you would still ask ppl to form a 40 men group to run MC for months if they want anything right?

 

My small guild has 6 new people who started doing nim ops this summer and the guild my republic noobs are in has 3 teams that started them this year.

[Slowpokeking]

My small guild has 6 new people who started doing nim ops this summer and the guild my republic noobs are in has 3 teams that started them this year.

 

Sure good luck with it, I wish you do well, but you have to look at the big pic. The raid community isn't doing well without new content, and that makes sense. I'm not asking to take anything away from you, just give me a way to get something that's not gamebreaking at all, just like the 3.0 cycle. Let us be able to turn off the level sync, or put them in SM with a lower drop chance.

 

I think KotFE and KotET's stories were cool, some contents are fine, but other than the 2 new encounters, the raid is broken. Even the raiders admit it.

[fushnchips]

They are also a reward for going to a swtor goldseller site and buying credits to pay someone to run you through the raids.So maybe they arent as exclusive as you thought. That being said, keep them in nim mode, I just hate the hypocrisy of nim raiders that sell mount runs but want the mounts to be "exclusive"

 

Selling mounts is a service to help people that might never have the chance to get them they still did the content and all those credits can help pay for Nightmare crystals or due to using a raiders lockout they are paid for it and the time they used also sometimes it helps with guild funds for repairs and so on for progression.

 

If anyone buys 200 million worth of credits or any for that matter from a credit outlet they need to find a new game.

[fushnchips]

I want a pony

 

I can give you one in EXTREME modes in FFXIV and I know you play it lol

[ivanhedgehog]

Selling mounts is a service to help people that might never have the chance to get them they still did the content and all those credits can help pay for Nightmare crystals or due to using a raiders lockout they are paid for it and the time they used also sometimes it helps with guild funds for repairs and so on for progression.

 

If anyone buys 200 million worth of credits or any for that matter from a credit outlet they need to find a new game.

 

service.........riiiight I dont care if you use the cash to hire gammorrean ******s, If the nim players arent going to treat the mount as exclusive, why should the devs? Carrying someone through for cash isnt helping some left out nim raider with bad gear, its grabbing the cash.

[fushnchips]

service.........riiiight I dont care if you use the cash to hire gammorrean ******s, If the nim players arent going to treat the mount as exclusive, why should the devs? Carrying someone through for cash isnt helping some left out nim raider with bad gear, its grabbing the cash.

 

Are you angry lol

[Slowpokeking]

Are you angry lol

 

He does make a big point here. Even raiders themselves don't treat it to be exclusive, especially since they are very old content.

[ivanhedgehog]

Are you angry lol

 

not a bit. I have done nim content in the past, just not currently. I dont really care if I have the mounts or not. Acting like you are some sort of philanthropist because you carry people through the ops to get them the mounts for millions and then claiming that they should remain exclusive rewards is hypocritical.