notanjelika Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Hi, i just reached the chapter "Anarchy in Paradise" on a jedi consular. When looking back, i really don't see why i need the Scions, they acted pretty looney tunes if you ask me. First, i got the impression Heskal really really hates me, what's not to hate about a powerful force sensitive from another Order? Then why the did he called Arcann on Asylum? Then the destiny thing, i don't believe in it, Jedi don't rely on prophecies,visions and mumbo-jumbo stuff. Why can't i just kill them and get over with it at once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 You might want to review that thing about Jedi not believing in prophecies... Wasn't there some sort of mention of a "Chosen One" or something like that in Episode 1 and 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I think the implication was that he wanted to cause the Battle of Asylum so the galaxy would see that Arcann could be defied and so the Alliance would be born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notanjelika Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 I think the implication was that he wanted to cause the Battle of Asylum so the galaxy would see that Arcann could be defied and so the Alliance would be born. You might be right, but i still don't like the Scions and don't really understand their purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Yeah, I don't really trust these guys either. They play by their own rules to make sure their visions become a reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I am not a fan of the Scions either. They do whatever they feel is "predestined" no matter how much it might harm others. They pretty much ended up destroying Asylum with their actions, and that was fine with them because it was "destiny." I had no interest in allying with them. My respect and trust for Senya completely dried up the moment she hoodwinked my character into that 'trial' and harmed HK, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notanjelika Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 I am not a fan of the Scions either. They do whatever they feel is "predestined" no matter how much it might harm others. They pretty much ended up destroying Asylum with their actions, and that was fine with them because it was "destiny." I had no interest in allying with them. My respect and trust for Senya completely dried up the moment she hoodwinked my character into that 'trial' and harmed HK, too. Nothing was "predestined" for my character, she had a choice since the beginning, for example to shield or kill Yuon Parr and the other Masters. About HK-55.. because of the Scions he was destroyed and i'll never see him again, with such "allies" as them why do i even need enemies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Nothing was "predestined" for my character, she had a choice since the beginning, for example to shield or kill Yuon Parr and the other Masters. About HK-55.. because of the Scions he was destroyed and i'll never see him again, with such "allies" as them why do i even need enemies Oh yes, the destruction of HK-55 is enough reason for my character to loathe the Scions forever, even without the rest of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celise Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Jedi can see possible future events as small glimpses but not know when they will happen. so it's entirely possible there are force users out there that spent their entire lives training that part of their connection to the force to jam a door wedge in the small crack to widen it and learn more about a possible future after taking the wedge out and dealing with a constant flow of future events. A force user can not know for certain but the scions make a big deal about knowing a persons fate by testing them, but not even they can know for certain and even in their certainty they are certainly unwilling to be specific about it or elaborate further but only that they know it will happen. The trouble with Heskal is that be believed the idea so much he willing allowed himself to be killed because he "knew" he was going to die. at what point is he certain he knows he is going to die or is he so eagar to jump on that sword just to make it so and prove his vision and thus proving it's also false because that is what he stated rather than being the truth? in any event, take what the scions say with buckets of salt over the shoulder, heck even diggers pouring it over the shoulder! Edited July 19, 2017 by Celise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerJediRanger Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 I never trusted them even after what Haskal did. To me they are like a fanatical group that uses the force for their own reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notanjelika Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 I never trusted them even after what Haskal did. To me they are like a fanatical group that uses the force for their own reasons. That's exactly my opinion too. They give vague answers like " a lot of people are going to suffer or die" and "victory will come at a great cost". Boo-hoo, Captain Obvious, this is a war, of course there will be casualties and sacrifices to be made! And about Arcann.. Jedi say "whatever lives dies eventually". Arcann is not immortal, not invincible, he is a very powerful force user that can die like Malgus & Marr did. Therefore, i don't need a bunch of looney tunes to tell me i can defeat him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Therefore, i don't need a bunch of looney tunes to tell me i can defeat him. No, but you do, perhaps, benefit from them telling you that *you* can defeat him. (Rather than a rock falling from space when he's in the throne room and smashing it into smithereens.) Or, to put it another way: "He can die." and "You will defeat him." are different things. The fulfilment of The Exalted's Zildrog prophecy would probably end in (or include) Arcann's death, but it wouldn't be you defeating him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Well here's my thoughts on The Scions, might contain spoilers Really The Scions make Voss society look normal, Heskal was so willingly to die and destroy Asylum just so that his vision would become reality it begs the questions whether or not he can be considered an ally or not. They're walking catastrophes waiting to happen, and I wouldn't be surprised if Oramis and the surviving scions, who might I add are only alive because Bioware didn't let me kill them, are involved somehow in the conspiracy against the commander and the eternal alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Well here's my thoughts on The Scions, might contain spoilers Really The Scions make Voss society look normal, Heskal was so willingly to die and destroy Asylum just so that his vision would become reality it begs the questions whether or not he can be considered an ally or not. They're walking catastrophes waiting to happen, and I wouldn't be surprised if Oramis and the surviving scions, who might I add are only alive because Bioware didn't let me kill them, are involved somehow in the conspiracy against the commander and the eternal alliance. Agreed. They're up to their own game while the rest of us kill each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Agreed. They're up to their own game while the rest of us kill each other. Co-signing this. They have their own agenda and no moral quandaries about how it affects others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notanjelika Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 Jedi can see possible future events as small glimpses but not know when they will happen. so it's entirely possible there are force users out there that spent their entire lives training that part of their connection to the force to jam a door wedge in the small crack to widen it and learn more about a possible future after taking the wedge out and dealing with a constant flow of future events. A force user can not know for certain but the scions make a big deal about knowing a persons fate by testing them, but not even they can know for certain and even in their certainty they are certainly unwilling to be specific about it or elaborate further but only that they know it will happen. The trouble with Heskal is that be believed the idea so much he willing allowed himself to be killed because he "knew" he was going to die. at what point is he certain he knows he is going to die or is he so eagar to jump on that sword just to make it so and prove his vision and thus proving it's also false because that is what he stated rather than being the truth? in any event, take what the scions say with buckets of salt over the shoulder, heck even diggers pouring it over the shoulder! One more thing: The Scions focused on Arcann, even if he wasn't the main enemy, but Vaylin. They never mentioned her, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeelaSeventen Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) They didn't see her as a threat perhaps. She wasn't a big deal untill much later in the story. Or they could be sexist and think a female wouldn't be capable. Or they have no clue what they are talking about and making it up as they go along. Edited July 21, 2017 by LeelaSeventen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 The one on Iokath says something about them avoiding Vaylin's Horizen Guard. It's possible they kept hunting them after Arcann fell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Heskal did insist that Vaylin must die back in Chapter 6 of Kotfe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notanjelika Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 Heskal did insist that Vaylin must die back in Chapter 6 of Kotfe. I need to play that chapter again, cause i don't remember them mentioning Vaylin at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celise Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) They didn't see her as a threat perhaps. She wasn't a big deal untill much later in the story. Or they could be sexist and think a female wouldn't be capable. Or they have no clue what they are talking about and making it up as they go along. it's more likely that Vaylin being on Nathema, they didn't have contact with her during her time growing up and after her return they probably didn't have any contact with her before Arcann mercilessly went after them. it's probably the only thing that would make sense. As a result of not knowing anything about her they couldn't even guess what type of threat she posed. Edited July 22, 2017 by Celise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeelaSeventen Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 that would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I need to play that chapter again, cause i don't remember them mentioning Vaylin at all They call out for the deaths of Arcaan and Vaylin when Senya hesitates to answer the chief scion guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Consular_El Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 No way my Outlanders an non-Outlanders ever trust them( especislly not the one formerly was one of them, the precise reason he left is because he realised they were insane). In my book, if one causes a catastrophy just because they saw a vision and believed visions should always come true( which is exactly what Heskal did), they are clearly a fanatical nutjob. I do have a feeling they might become the writers' darlings later on, with them justifying whatever **** the Scions are going to do with the "they did what was necessary" mantra, because the writers currently seem to be fond of the whole "it's destiny" thing to justify whatever stupid moments or railroading there is in the story. Which both upsets me and looks sorry. The destiny vs free will conflict could have been made interesting if they kept it more ambigous, with the supporters of both sides having valid points of view. Instead they just seem to favour the "destiny" side all the time, with all the good characters talking about it, and everyone who sought to defy destiny being villains. Why not try to play it the other way a bit to make it less simplistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeverJenkins Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 none of these are helping me find the moron oramis in the alliance base though, there seems to be no one that will tell me where she is on odessen. can someone please tell me where to find this little shrub, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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