Did anyone notice the class-nerfs makes Mercs/Snipers even more OP?

[Stellarcrusade]

Sorc's were so OP it was stupid, pair them up with a tank guarding them and it would take the entire other team to kill them.

 

Sorcs were only OP against stupid players. I play various classes including sorc healer and merc. On my sorc healer I get man-handled quite easily by smart teams, and also on my merc I can easily handle a sorc. As far as tanks guarding a healer, you also have to be smart to beat them, its not that hard if you are aware of what is going on.

 

Instead of removing things that reward smart players the nerf to sorcs just rewards dumb play.

 

Do you think you'll be able to kill a merc that has a guard bubble on him? By that line of reasoning we should nerf the heck out of mercs. After that nerf you'll find a sniper with a guard bubble that you cannot kill and we can finally nerf the snipers too.... Learn how to play instead.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Stellarcrusade

[Retro_Chrome]

except that the good sage/sorc healers are still doing warzones...hrm guess that shows which sage/sorc healers stopped using them

[Stellarcrusade]

except that the good sage/sorc healers are still doing warzones...hrm guess that shows which sage/sorc healers stopped using them

 

Are you sure they are good healers and not dumb ones? The top-100 ranked healers I know stopped playing warzones with the patch. Some will stay even if they cannot help the team anymore, the point is many will stop playing it, and it hurts the non-merc/non-sniper classes the most when they do. Of those that quit playing healer, some will leave the game and some will reroll, what classes do you think they will be playing when they reroll? Probably not powertech, they will be mercs and snipers.

 

I can just hear it now, as soon as the smoke clears the calls for: "OMG NERF MERC/SNIPERS NOW!" will be at an all time high, fall on deaf ears and all warzones will just be merc/snipers.

 

All we have learned is one universal rule. This rule cannot be changed or the foundation of the universe would unravel: ALL NERFS APPLY ONLY TO SORCS. Keep that in mind next time you ask for nerf of any class.

 

Its like the solution to all problems is, nerf sorcs. If tomorrow there is an asteroid heading towards earth to destroy all life on the planet the solution they would try first would be: nerf sorcs. Problem was merc/snipers, so the solution they tried, nerf sorcs, only making merc/snipers even more powerful. Logic is great, Love it.

[Romeugues]

Commandos are easier to kill on my Mara... not many slingers about and the few I came across weren't good.. so it's hard to say

That's true of most pubs

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I know a few people who only enjoy playing tanks, they enjoy all three tank specs and they'd love to do PvP and PvE. The current state of mitigation in PvP makes it very difficult though, since you essentially have to maintain two sets of gear. At least being able to craft 246 items has helped, but purchasing those for three different characters (some have characters in both factions, so duplicates of relics, implants and earpieces too) is definitely not cheap. It's a very unfair situation to tank players, I think. At least as a healer I can use the same gear in PvP and PvE and on my Assassin DPS I only change my stim and earpiece. Quite a bit easier...

 

I get it, I do. Really it would stupid not to skank tank with the tanking attributes so out of wack in PVP, you can't blame them for not wanting to play a subpar build.

 

I agree with Kendra, time to fix the tank stats in PVP, make real tanks viable again, because the truth is, skank tanks are role breaking, tank specs should not be doing more DPS than DPS specs. If they fix the bolster so tanks can play to their full potential as tanks again and make it lower stats from a tank spec for using dps gear, you fix both with one stroke. Than people who love thier tanks can play them again in PVP as real tanks. You take the guards from DPS specs and give it back solely to real tanks [dps with guards shouldn't be] and increase the value of true tanks and you limit the amount of guards being tossed around like MnMs. Everyone and thier sister is guarded which effects TTK issues.

 

It's really not fair to tanks at all and I can't believe they have let it go on this long.

[DavidAtkinson]

I get it, I do. Really it would stupid not to skank tank with the tanking attributes so out of wack in PVP, you can't blame them for not wanting to play a subpar build.

 

I agree with Kendra, time to fix the tank stats in PVP, make real tanks viable again, because the truth is, skank tanks are role breaking, tank specs should not be doing more DPS than DPS specs. If they fix the bolster so tanks can play to their full potential as tanks again and make it lower stats from a tank spec for using dps gear, you fix both with one stroke. Than people who love thier tanks can play them again in PVP as real tanks. You take the guards from DPS specs and give it back solely to real tanks [dps with guards shouldn't be] and increase the value of true tanks and you limit the amount of guards being tossed around like MnMs. Everyone and thier sister is guarded which effects TTK issues.

 

It's really not fair to tanks at all and I can't believe they have let it go on this long.

 

How would a real tank work in solo ranked where none of the teams have a healer. Who would keep alive the tanks who aren't going to do much dps since they are real tanks ?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

How would a real tank work in solo ranked where none of the teams have a healer. Who would keep alive the tanks who aren't going to do much dps since they are real tanks ?

 

Why are we only considering solo ranked?

 

Still...

 

The same thing the DPS would do. Kill the enemy before they kill you or die. Or don't guard anyone. If there is no healer there to guard in the first place you can still use your tank abilities to help your team mitigate some damage.

 

If the other team has a healer and you don't, you're screwed.

 

I get that there are mechanical issues involved, but, that's what they need to work on. I'm sorry, tanks shouldn't be doing more DPS than DPS do. It's inherently broken. Having the DPS of a DPS spec, and the survivability and abilites of a tank is role breaking.

 

In regs people are guarded whether or not there are healers on the team.

 

If it's too damning for solo ranked than they should make a provision for solo ranked or just allow skank tanking in Ranked if they can't figure out a way to make some provision for the pure tank in Ranked which doesn't sound likely that they couldn't come up with something.

 

Like I said, i get why people skank tank in PVP, they alternative is subpar, I don't blame them in the least, but, it's just a bit too strong as is especially at a time when class balancing is going on [with zero suscess of course].

 

Mind you, I don't see skank tanks like I see Mercs and Snipers, but there is definately too much strong there.

 

Do you not agree that Skank Tanking is role breaking? Shouldn't real tanks be made viable in PVP? Serious question.

Edited July 14, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[DavidAtkinson]

Why are we only considering solo ranked?

 

Still...

 

The same thing the DPS would do. Kill the enemy before they kill you or die. Or don't guard anyone. If there is no healer there to guard in the first place you can still use your tank abilities to help your team mitigate some damage.

 

If the other team has a healer and you don't, you're screwed.

 

I get that there are mechanical issues involved, but, that's what they need to work on. I'm sorry, tanks shouldn't be doing more DPS than DPS do. It's inherently broken. Having the DPS of a DPS spec, and the survivability and abilites of a tank is role breaking.

 

In regs people are guarded whether or not there are healers on the team.

 

If it's too damning for solo ranked than they should make a provision for solo ranked or just allow skank tanking in Ranked if they can't figure out a way to make some provision for the pure tank in Ranked which doesn't sound likely that they couldn't come up with something.

 

Like I said, i get why people skank tank in PVP, they alternative is subpar, I don't blame them in the least, but, it's just a bit too strong as is especially at a time when class balancing is going on [with zero suscess of course].

 

Mind you, I don't see skank tanks like I see Mercs and Snipers, but there is definately too much strong there.

 

Do you not agree that Skank Tanking is role breaking? Shouldn't real tanks be made viable in PVP? Serious question.

 

I agree that skank tanks are an abomination that needs to be fixed somehow, but on the other hand, I don't really see how a real tank would work in ranked without a healer.

 

They would be pretty much useless unless they get some super survival options.

 

You know very well that one of the reason people now roll skanks is because in arenas if they don't do damage they don't even count in the match. They would end up dead in seconds.

 

And the reason why I mention them in ranked is because that's where you see them the most.

 

I rolled a real tank sin in solo ranked a few times. I was useless and turned the game 3vs4 because I didn't matter in terms of damage.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I agree that skank tanks are an abomination that needs to be fixed somehow, but on the other hand, I don't really see how a real tank would work in ranked without a healer.

 

They would be pretty much useless unless they get some super survival options.

 

You know very well that one of the reason people now roll skanks is because in arenas if they don't do damage they don't even count in the match. They would end up dead in seconds.

 

And the reason why I mention them in ranked is because that's where you see them the most.

 

I rolled a real tank sin in solo ranked a few times. I was useless and turned the game 3vs4 because I didn't matter in terms of damage.

 

Yeah, as it is, it's one of those no win situations. You can totally understand why they do it, tank traits just don't translate appropriately so what else are they gonna do, just gimp themselives?

 

Like I said, they'd have alter some mechanic in the bolster in order to address the issue because there's no fix with the present system for it.

 

I don't see why it would be all that difficult to do, but, at the same time, I'm not a tech guy, im just working on theory here. Hard to believe they can't come up with some kind of fix for the tank traits in PVP, but until/unless they do, I'd do the same thing if I was a tank.

 

The 'class balance' has the classes at each other's throats on the forums like I can't believe, like ive never seen before. All of a sudden, mDPS are OP, they need to be nerfed down across the board, the whole thing is getting out of hand.

 

This could have been so simple, make so very specific alterations where they were needed, and not touch the rDPS dps, or the sorcs defenses, but, no, they just gonna rip everyone apart and no one is gonna be happy. This is only the first round. This 'class balance' system they're going by, this may seal the games fate, everyone's going to be feed up and just say fuk it.

 

Anyways, i think as things turn out, skank tanks will probably go largely untouched. If they escape the purge, hey, more power to em. Someone should be happy at least! heh

[Sargrith]

First to be upfront I play my guardian as a skank tank, real tank, and vigilance dps in PvP.

 

As a real tank I am not worthwhile unless I mod completely differently from what I would do as PvE, which means I have to carry a forthset and that's not worth it to me. My dps will be sad even so all I will have done is made a bag of health that hits like a wet noodle.

 

Despite what people say in a pure dps run a skank tank does not pass a dps in dps. They hit harder then a real tank but if built right not near as hard as a real dps ( built wrong they hit worse and can't tank either). So basics, to be a skank tank you need tank armorings but everything else is dps. You spec tank of course. Now don't bring this guy on an op run because he hits hard enough and because he has increased threat generation your actual tank will want you dead, oh and additionally you are tough but not really tough enough for real tanking in anything but sm ops. The big reason I skank tank is two fold, one I am more effective doing so than not doing so, two I am lazy and don't want to change specs and just want to do some PvP. See normally I am a tank for ops, so it's a heck of a lot easier to just change my gear then reword my spec and action bars....the survivavility of dps guardians is bad, really bad also they are so vulnerable to knockbacks and snares they can feel unplayable at times so I'd rather be tough enough to take the beating and deal a bit less then get killed super fast.

 

Now a mistake I saw a couple people make. In a match you know who you guard....don't say healer it's not always right....you guard the person getting focused, that maximizes the damage reduction to your team. It als means you have to keep aware and change the guard as the situation calls on it. If you jump in guarding the healer only your not doing the best for the team you can be doing. i just wanted to state that because a good PvP tank should try and move his guard around best they can.

[KendraP]

First to be upfront I play my guardian as a skank tank, real tank, and vigilance dps in PvP.

 

As a real tank I am not worthwhile unless I mod completely differently from what I would do as PvE, which means I have to carry a forthset and that's not worth it to me. My dps will be sad even so all I will have done is made a bag of health that hits like a wet noodle.

 

Despite what people say in a pure dps run a skank tank does not pass a dps in dps. They hit harder then a real tank but if built right not near as hard as a real dps ( built wrong they hit worse and can't tank either). So basics, to be a skank tank you need tank armorings but everything else is dps. You spec tank of course. Now don't bring this guy on an op run because he hits hard enough and because he has increased threat generation your actual tank will want you dead, oh and additionally you are tough but not really tough enough for real tanking in anything but sm ops. The big reason I skank tank is two fold, one I am more effective doing so than not doing so, two I am lazy and don't want to change specs and just want to do some PvP. See normally I am a tank for ops, so it's a heck of a lot easier to just change my gear then reword my spec and action bars....the survivavility of dps guardians is bad, really bad also they are so vulnerable to knockbacks and snares they can feel unplayable at times so I'd rather be tough enough to take the beating and deal a bit less then get killed super fast.

 

Now a mistake I saw a couple people make. In a match you know who you guard....don't say healer it's not always right....you guard the person getting focused, that maximizes the damage reduction to your team. It als means you have to keep aware and change the guard as the situation calls on it. If you jump in guarding the healer only your not doing the best for the team you can be doing. i just wanted to state that because a good PvP tank should try and move his guard around best they can.

 

And what I recommend would solve both problems. Making tank gear relevant would make people who actually want to tank run full tanks. Shoot making guard a tank only thing would push me back, at least part time since our other tank is back too.

 

And my point 2 was exactly that: dps guardians (and PT/VG still I'm assuming) are squishy as crap. Fix that and the people who actually want to dps (but not die every 60 seconds) will go back to being dps.

 

I also certainly get the working the spec/action bar bit too, as someone who does switch back and forth constantly. (Also, a lot of wasted stims too lol). I personally am a bit put off by skanking and would rather do the switcharoo than have to grind another 2 gear sets too

 

And yes, as a tank guard swapping is the way to go. I believe the point about skank tank damage often comes from increased survivability. Yes as vigi I obviously do more damage than I do as a tank. I also die a lot more. I have been beaten in dps by an (obviously skanking) jugg in a 4v4 (that ended up and a 3v4 after our healer left where I got wrecked in like 60 Seconds). Yes I was with bads and yes it sucked lol. I have also read the guardian forums enough to grasp that skanking seems to be the way to go in ranked, that being a major reason I refuse to even bother trying ranked.

[mmmbuddah]

Yet I am still using my lightning sorc and focus guardian.....

[KendraP]

Yet I am still using my lightning sorc and focus guardian.....

 

lol welcome to the party, i too play the class i enjoy whatever the game throws my way

[VaceDemon]

They did a couple of tiny nerfs to the Mercs/Snipers, and completely eliminated Sage/Sorcs from PvP, when the only real problem was the OP Merc/Snipers and to bring some of the other classes in line DPS wise.

 

Net result:

- Sorcs no longer are a part of PvP.

 

What will that do?

- All classes that actually need healing will no longer have any. So all classes other than Merc/Sniper now are no longer part of PvP either.

 

If the goal was to ensure that ONLY Mercs (with their 3 lives), and Snipers be included in PvP - goal achieved.

 

Now, I can understand Sorcs complaining right away, then just stopping queueing in PvP. Next we'll see every non merc/sniper class do the same. And for all you Mercs/Snipers who were cheering when you seen healers were eliminated, thinking you'd have many more easy kills, well, you are right, but only for a short time. Before long you'll be fighting ONLY against others of your same class, and if they have more skill/gear than you, you'll be dying like crazy.

 

Sorcs got a devastating nerf on paper, but the real classes that will suffer the most from this are all the non-merc/snipers. They will be the ones who pay for this nerf. Sorcs will simply do non-pvp or leave the game.

 

So the real winners will be the Mercs/Snipers that have played them for years and are really high in skill. Pretty small list.

 

You must not be a good sorc/sage healer if you think the nerf will get rid of healers. The bad healers may struggle but the good ones will still be good. the class was way too OP. It needed a nerf.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

i just wanted to state that because a good PvP tank should try and move his guard around best they can.

 

 

I agree with you there. A tank who's good at guard swapping makes getting the job a whole lot harder because it's not easy to call out target switches on the fly if you have to type it out. People need to be watchful for themselves and should designate who is target number 2 on the priorities this way you can go back and forth on those two targets in the event of a good gaurd swapping tank.

[Glocko]

I love all the new skank tank posts.... yes nerf Juggs and PTs two of the most under performing classes in swtor.... The crying has just hit an all new level... When you have ppl crying about classes at the bottom you know that the nerf threads have reached a point of ridiculousness.... I bet you guys are on break from Overwatch because you are tired of all the hackers killing you.... in your mind there could be no other reason for you getting rekt Edited July 17, 2017 by Glocko

[KendraP]

I love all the new skank tank posts.... yes nerf Juggs and PTs two of the most under performing classes in swtor.... The crying has just hit an all new level... When you have ppl crying about classes at the bottom you know that the nerf threads have reached a point of ridiculousness.... I bet you guys are on break from Overwatch because you are tired of all the hackers killing you.... in your mind there could be no other reason for you getting rekt

 

If you read my recommendation I'm literally asking for a buff to dps specced guardians at least survivability wise. I also asked for tank gear to be relevant.

 

The only nerf I asked for was to take guard away from dps specs so real tanks are relevant again (yes I know exaggeration, you shoukd understand the point)

 

Also I've never played over watch and never blame my failures on hacking. Ask the guys I run with. If I screw up, I take the blame.

 

I'm also a very long time guardian tank main who harbors a deep resentment towards the decline of the need for tanks. Every flashpoint tactical, most SM ops can be solo tanked, and in regs you can guard a healer with a dps. What exactly is my purpose any more? This is why I learned vigi. Again yes I'm exagrrating a bit.

Edited July 18, 2017 by KendraP