LordTurin Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 So does Lightning Sorc... it is the worst performing spec in the game and still no communication on what is happening with it Based on what? It has higher dps than Arsenal, and they already said they are going to fix utilities after they rearrange dps, as DCD's that seem OP when you have really high dps, won't seem as OP when they have low dps (I have seen way fewer mercs in PVP now, and they are really easy to shutdown/ignore now since their dps is so much lower). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Based on what? It has higher dps than Arsenal, and they already said they are going to fix utilities after they rearrange dps, as DCD's that seem OP when you have really high dps, won't seem as OP when they have low dps (I have seen way fewer mercs in PVP now, and they are really easy to shutdown/ignore now since their dps is so much lower). Can I have what ever you are smoking? Seriously, Lightning Sorcs have higher dps than Arsenal 😂😂😂😂 Why are you arguing with me? 99% of pvpers and pve ops people know lightning has the lowest performance. It's why most raiders won't take any Lightning players into ops. Sorry, but you've lost all credibility with that post and shows your ignorance about classes and pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottffsse Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Can I have what ever you are smoking? Seriously, Lightning Sorcs have higher dps than Arsenal 😂😂😂😂 Why are you arguing with me? 99% of pvpers and pve ops people know lightning has the lowest performance. It's why most raiders won't take any Lightning players into ops. Sorry, but you've lost all credibility with that post and shows your ignorance about classes and pvp. It depends, Icy_ is not completely wrong. While yes Gunnery/Arsenal is a bit lower than Lightning/TK now if you apply all damage debuffs on dummy that only works in a real raid setting when there is a ranged raid debuff class in the group (Sniper or Merc) who has that ranged -5% ranged damage debuff. Otherwise Lightning dps drops by like 500-800dps easy. And Snipers/Mecs have that ranged debuff as part of their class. Edited July 30, 2017 by ottffsse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clanner Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 And now add no really good DefCD and fluff armour. Trying to solo master mode stuff and other things (silly evil icy, pls answer my PM :'() and the fact you get hit that hard by stuff that can't be avoided/interrupted is a major problem for the cast sage/sorc. You have to expose yourself to apply your major dmg. You can't just apply dots and hide. Cast sage/sorc is still fun for me... but it srsly feels like a wet noodle. Even with a lvl 50 companion, some gold mobs or bosses in master mode chapters just hit so hard, that you have a big problem dealing with the initial dmg you received, while your burst is mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severith Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 It's really not worth their time to balance for PvP either, and quite frankly, 1 out of every 100 PvPers is looking for actual balance, the rest are upset that they can't beat "fotm for July". That is, after all, where the rock paper scissors meme comes from. It's a never ending run of "nerf this/buff that" that, in context with this game, wreaks havoc on PvE every time they give in to the tears and nerf something. They would rather nerf PvE than ban exploiters in PvP. Why is that, do you suppose? Not enough players left after a ban wave to justify expenses on it? Did they at least give them a "stern talking to" before they started in on Phase Walk, the last one I knew about. My money is on no, because they didn't want to hurt their feelings. You see, while you're not caring about that lvl 50 merc, I'm not caring about a toon that can get in a match at level 10 with lvl 69s and "perform" just as well as they do. You see, bolster is relatively new to PvE, sure it's been around a while now, but it's always been in PvP, and even hinting at removing it will cause the forums to explode. Hinting at making rewards be actual rewards, for winners, would have the same effect. It's ironic, given what we know about PvP in swtor, that it's still a driving force behind "balance". There's no rock paper scissors in swtor pvp. It's guns, knives, and paintballs. There's no FOTM in swtor either. Only FOTY. Good MMO's should be top heavy. That means, there should be more to do at endgame than at any other point, and that also means the development drive should be focused on endgame. That's how you keep subs. Remember WAR: Age of Reckoning? That was a game where endgame was glossed over in favor of lowbie and midbie content. And it was fun, but it didn't last. End game balance and content was so sketchy you had to keep remaking toons to participate in the lower tier zones. It lost the vast majority of its subs, sputtered and lived on life support for a few years before dying. People are willing to trudge through mediocre leveling content to get to endgame, provided the endgame is good. They're willing to put up with issues while leveling if those issues disappear at level cap. That's why a level 50 merc's balance doesn't matter compared to a level 70 merc. That merc, if it ends up being a "main", is going to spend 95% of it's existence at the level cap. As for the pvp community, sure there are people complaining because they want easy wins, but a good amount of people care about nurturing the pvp population. Before they unsubbed, for example, a lot of mercs actually began asking for nerfs for the merc class, because they saw how destructive to the game it was being. If someone is posting on the forums about class balance, and they're asking for reasonable changes, chances are they care about the health of the game as much as they care about their wins or bragging rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) LoL.. FOTY 😂😂😂😉 Edited July 30, 2017 by Icykill_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTurin Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 It depends, Icy_ is not completely wrong. While yes Gunnery/Arsenal is a bit lower than Lightning/TK now if you apply all damage debuffs on dummy that only works in a real raid setting when there is a ranged raid debuff class in the group (Sniper or Merc) who has that ranged -5% ranged damage debuff. Otherwise Lightning dps drops by like 500-800dps easy. And Snipers/Mecs have that ranged debuff as part of their class. Marked doesn't help lightning, they benefit from the 5% force debuff, which they do put on. Yes, they don't put sunder on, but 6 or 7 other specs other than Arsenal do. It's pretty good odds someone in the group will put it on. Can I have what ever you are smoking? Seriously, Lightning Sorcs have higher dps than Arsenal 😂😂😂😂 Why are you arguing with me? 99% of pvpers and pve ops people know lightning has the lowest performance. It's why most raiders won't take any Lightning players into ops. Sorry, but you've lost all credibility with that post and shows your ignorance about classes and pvp. http://parsely.io/parser/stats After the 5.3 nerfs, lightning does have better dps than Arsenal. Now whether DCD/raid utility wise it is a better choice, that is a different matter, but it does do better dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Marked doesn't help lightning, they benefit from the 5% force debuff, which they do put on. Yes, they don't put sunder on, but 6 or 7 other specs other than Arsenal do. It's pretty good odds someone in the group will put it on. http://parsely.io/parser/stats After the 5.3 nerfs, lightning does have better dps than Arsenal. Now whether DCD/raid utility wise it is a better choice, that is a different matter, but it does do better dps. Either I'm reading it wrong or you are.. because Lightning is at the bottom if you actually sort them correctly 😉 Edited July 30, 2017 by Icykill_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTurin Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Either I'm reading at wrong or you are.. because Lightning is at the bottom if you actually sort them correctly 😉 Sort 2.5 million dummy by average, lightning is at 8.8, Arsenal is at 8.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Sort 2.5 million dummy by average, lightning is at 8.8, Arsenal is at 8.5. LoL, you pick the one column out of four that shows Arsenal below lightning... the other three show it much higher... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTurin Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 LoL, you pick the one column out of four that shows Arsenal below lightning... the other three show it much higher... Yes, I pick the one column that is the standard parse nowadays... silly me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Yes, I pick the one column that is the standard parse nowadays... silly me Haha.. standard parse... what a joke... more like you pick the one that supports your argument even though the law of averages would say the other three out weigh it Are there even any dates on those parses to know when they were made? Edited July 30, 2017 by Icykill_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTurin Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Haha.. standard parse... what a joke... Man, you need to lower the toxicity level. You're gonna give yourself a heart attack at this rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Man, you need to lower the toxicity level. You're gonna give yourself a heart attack at this rate. I've yet to see a player with 2.5 mil health. So what you are saying is that Lightning is better at killing parse dummies at 2.5 mil, but sucks below 2.5 mil which is where pvpers play 🙄 Edited July 30, 2017 by Icykill_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanNV Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 I've yet to see a player with 2.5 mil health. So what you are saying is that Lightning is better at killing parse dummies at 2.5 mil, but sucks below 2.5 mil which is where pvpers play 🙄 No, what it says is that lightning is better at the average amount of DPS needed to kill a raid boss. The 2.5 million parse is also the one with the most people doing it and uploading, so it has a larger sample size than the others. FWIW, neither class is viable for NiM Styrak or some of the other bosses and you'll run into issues in full 242 with them as well. They aren't viable for the harder HM bosses until they have a good bit of 248. That's just simple math. It's also poor game design on BW's part. (However, I also believe it is intentional to force people to play different classes and regrind to keep them busy longer.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 No, what it says is that lightning is better at the average amount of DPS needed to kill a raid boss. The 2.5 million parse is also the one with the most people doing it and uploading, so it has a larger sample size than the others. FWIW, neither class is viable for NiM Styrak or some of the other bosses and you'll run into issues in full 242 with them as well. They aren't viable for the harder HM bosses until they have a good bit of 248. That's just simple math. It's also poor game design on BW's part. (However, I also believe it is intentional to force people to play different classes and regrind to keep them busy longer.) I was being sarcastic because we were discussing pvp and a 2.5 mil dummy parse to compare it when there are two lower ones that show a different result is just cherry picking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTurin Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 I was being sarcastic because we were discussing pvp and a 2.5 mil dummy parse to compare it when there are two lower ones that show a different result is just cherry picking. Oh, were we just talking about PVP? pve ops people know lightning has the lowest performance. It's why most raiders won't take any Lightning players into ops. . My mistake, next time you say "ops people" and "raiders" and "ops", I'll just assume you are calling pvp a different name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Lightmemeing v ArsenLUL in terms of average sustained DPS is like a fight between a dumpster and a garbage can. Both are about as good as a dumpster on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardera Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Lightmemeing v ArsenLUL in terms of average sustained DPS is like a fight between a dumpster and a garbage can. Both are about as good as a dumpster on fire. lol this^^ balance team is a fraud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardera Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) Haha.. standard parse... what a joke... more like you pick the one that supports your argument even though the law of averages would say the other three out weigh it Are there even any dates on those parses to know when they were made? I dont know *** you are smoking but we always compare dummies at 2.5m its the standard parse Edited July 30, 2017 by scardera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Marked doesn't help lightning, they benefit from the 5% force debuff, which they do put on. Yes, they don't put sunder on, but 6 or 7 other specs other than Arsenal do. It's pretty good odds someone in the group will put it on. http://parsely.io/parser/stats After the 5.3 nerfs, lightning does have better dps than Arsenal. Now whether DCD/raid utility wise it is a better choice, that is a different matter, but it does do better dps. Arsenal will live longer, better dcds. live players do more dps than dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 lol this^^ balance team is a fraud What they are hoping for is if the get enough nerfs published, the will be a mystical transformation and the creation of a nerf black hole...All classes will be buffed and perfectly balanced.....they need just a few more mega nerfs...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Arsenal will live longer, better dcds. live players do more dps than dead. Pretty much this ^^^ It a shame there isn't the equivalent WZ parse setup because lightning with PTs would be so far at the bottom and Arsenal would be at the top or at least in the top 3... which has been my point all along Every PVPer knows this to be true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 What they are hoping for is if the get enough nerfs published, the will be a mystical transformation and the creation of a nerf black hole...All classes will be buffed and perfectly balanced.....they need just a few more mega nerfs...... That's wishful thinking at its best 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 That's wishful thinking at its best 😆 Or a bad LSD habit at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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