A preferred player’s perspective on Population decline

[admkrk]

I used to know a guy that worked on a horse farm. That farm bought an adjacent horse farm. In order for the new acquisition to look like the base farm, the owner tore up all the fence on the new place, and replaced it with fence that looked like the original farm's. This guy asked if he could buy, not be given, some of the old fence. The farm owner told him no, then ordered him to burn the posts and bury the wire. Instead of gaining a little profit, by selling a small amount of fence, the owner thought it better to pay this guy to destroy all the fence.

 

What does this story have to do with this discussion? The perceived gain of something that someone else "might" get for less than the original cost. That is a very petty thing to argue. What is wrong with others having your "scraps"?

[Eshvara]

I think BW set the limits for F2P and preferred at a very reasonable point. Those who choose not to subscribe, for whatever reason, get more then enough for FREE, IMO. As noted previously, it matters not how much they may have paid in the past, the fact remains that, in all likelihood, they are NOT paying into the game NOW.

 

I don't think the numbers of people participating in PVP, OPS, FP's etc. with no possibility of reward would be all that high. I'd bet that most would either complain that they get no rewards, not even lesser rewards, or they would just say "Why bother doing X? There is no reward, so there's no point."

 

As to your point regarding those who paid a mere $5 being on the same level as those that subscribed for months, that is another matter entirely.

 

If BW were to add "levels" of preferred status, how many levels would you advocate and where would you set those levels in terms of months subscribed or money spent? What benefits would you assign to each of those levels, keeping in mind that for every "additional benefit" you give someone who is NOT paying NOW, you have to add something of equal value to those subscribers who ARE paying now? What "additional benefits" would you give to those subscribers who ARE paying now, to add value to those subscriptions and compensate for the value lost by giving more to those that are NOT paying NOW?

 

I said, founders being equal to preferred accounts hat only spent 5$ isn't really fair. Are people who supported the game before it was released and paid months of sub in the past really on the same scale as someone who will jump in tomorrow and spends 5$ to become preferred?

 

I already stated what I think preferred players should be able to get, if you think they won't play as much if, does it really matter if it gets implemented?

You seem like you don't want preferred players to get anything for the sake of not wanting them to have anything else. This isn't really the right mentality to have if you want to improve the health of the game.

 

In terms of what to give subscribers extra, I can't say. I don't feel Ike I'm lacking anything as a sub. I have unlimited access to everything and I get 500cc every month and the potential to have people click my refer a friend link. For me personally that's enough. I also don't get the removal of passes, how did that anyone at all? It's not like that made the game get more subs.

 

I don't know what else to say on the subject, I'm not really here to convince you, just stating my opinion, just as you do yours, that's all.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Eshvara

[CrazyCT]

The point being made is this - If a preferred player has the same access as a subscriber, why would I continue to subscribe? No-one is disputing that there will be more players playing the end game, but if there is nothing extra for subscribing, there will be a lot less subscribers (if any). There would need to be something exclusive given to the subscribers to keep them pumping money into this game.

 

Given how many people keep coming here and asking for the exclusive things to be given to people who either don't qualify or don't contribute, what do you propose that we be given to compensate?

 

And if there are no more subscribers, the only revenue will be from the Cartel Market, so there will be a complete focus on that for the devs, and no new content will be coming any time soon, so how long do you think will it be before the people who didn't think it was worth subscribing in the first place (ie have no commitment to the game) move on to the next game?

 

If you want the thing, pay for the thing.

[Eshvara]

The point being made is this - If a preferred player has the same access as a subscriber, why would I continue to subscribe? No-one is disputing that there will be more players playing the end game, but if there is nothing extra for subscribing, there will be a lot less subscribers (if any). There would need to be something exclusive given to the subscribers to keep them pumping money into this game.

 

Given how many people keep coming here and asking for the exclusive things to be given to people who either don't qualify or don't contribute, what do you propose that we be given to compensate?

 

And if there are no more subscribers, the only revenue will be from the Cartel Market, so there will be a complete focus on that for the devs, and no new content will be coming any time soon, so how long do you think will it be before the people who didn't think it was worth subscribing in the first place (ie have no commitment to the game) move on to the next game?

 

If you want the thing, pay for the thing.

 

I agree subscribers would unsubscribe if they had the exact same privileges as preferred. Is that however the case in the scenario I proposed? You don't have to like my idea, but to say that's how subs are now is quite silly.

Nobody is asking for free stuff, the op doesn't, I don't so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

 

Subscribers can always have the maximum benefits and they should, but preferred players don't have to be dragged on a rope behind the buss.

I don't know about you, but I personally don't subscribe all year around, it was never worth doing so, and given how many people unsubscribe from this game and how we're crying for merges, I feel like I'm not the only one.

 

If preferred status would be a bit better I'd still at least play. What's better people playing and potentially again subscribing because they want to reap the rewards or people not playing at all because there isn't any point into doing so in its current state?

Edited July 8, 2017 by Eshvara

[CrazyCT]

"We're" crying out for mergers? Are "we"?

 

Once again, for the good of the game, it helps to have subscribers. To remove the last couple of obstacles that make people sub, would mean people stop subbing.

 

What's better - having people pay money to play the game, ensuring it's long term survival, or removing those pay barriers, and possibly having a couple of extra players for a couple of months till they get bored at no new content and walk away again anyway?

Edited July 8, 2017 by CrazyCT

[Eshvara]

"We're" crying out for mergers? Are "we"?

 

Once again, for the good of the game, it helps to have subscribers. To remove the last couple of obstacles that make people sub, would mean people stop subbing.

 

What's better - having people pay money to play the game, ensuring it's long term survival, or removing those pay barriers, and possibly having a couple of extra players for a couple of months till they get bored at no new content and walk away again anyway?

 

Are there any successful games out there that don't rely on subscribers?

 

How much is swtor already focusing on the cartel market when it comes to cosmetics?

 

What are they making more money from, subs of the cartel market?

 

Is swtor doing good in your opinion, is subscription really saving what's left of the game?

 

Do I have to write , "in general" when I say we, we're, or you?

 

Where does the extra money go into that subscribers pay, has it been in continuing to keep people happy by providing top quality content/story?

 

You probably don't have an answer for any of these, with maybe the exception of the last one.

I don't want bw to stop making as much money as they can, but I'd like them to be a little less stingy.

You are happy with swtor in its current state, and that's great it's your opinion and you like any other are allowed to have one.

 

G'day. o7

Edited July 8, 2017 by Eshvara

[PROGOD]

I see alot of subs complain if f2p or preferred you aren't helping support the game with a constant stream of cash flow. While true even the subscribers aren't if you think about it. All The sub money goes to is the cm and thats all it has been going to or imo to other ea projects and not swtor so at the end of the day both subs preferred and f2p are getting royally screwed. Infact if F2p players had more incentive to spend money don't you think they would have? cxp isn't a incentive, knowing you're sub money goes into a cash shop rather then ops or fps etc isn't a incentive. In short even the subscribers are getting shafted as they sub expecting quality content drops hence the reason to sub to games like wow and instead bioware is asking you for more money by milking the cm rather then deliver what a sub should be getting in the first place ...funny stuff. Edited July 8, 2017 by PROGOD

[AlrikFassbauer]

Preferred should be abolished completely and call it what it is which is F2P.

 

If you have worked for a company and quit, then you should never be allowed to buy something from that company.

 

Same effect.

[CrazyCT]

Are there any successful games out there that don't rely on subscribers?

 

How much is swtor already focusing on the cartel market when it comes to cosmetics?

 

What are they making more money from, subs of the cartel market?

 

Is swtor doing good in your opinion, is subscription really saving what's left of the game?

 

Do I have to write , "in general" when I say we, we're, or you?

 

Where does the extra money go into that subscribers pay, has it been in continuing to keep people happy by providing top quality content/story?

 

You probably don't have an answer for any of these, with maybe the exception of the last one.

I don't want bw to stop making as much money as they can, but I'd like them to be a little less stingy.

You are happy with swtor in its current state, and that's great it's your opinion and you like any other are allowed to have one.

 

G'day. o7

 

Need to remember to put "Add a Crayon font for the forums" in the suggestion box

 

OK, yes, Bioware has quite a big focus on the Cartel Market. The money coming in from the Cartel Market will directly affect how much money and development is spent on that. With your suggestion, the amount of money spent in the Cartel Market won't change, so there won't be any change to their "fund". What you ARE suggesting is that losing the subscription money will have no affect on what is spent on the game. If there is no money coming in from subscriptions, then the only revenue will come from the Cartel Market.

 

Let's try and break it down with examples (these are completely fictional figures, I have no real reason for thinking they may be accurate.)

 

If Bioware currently make $4 million from the CM each month and $1 million from subscriptions, then they will still be making the $4 million after your change, but no $1 million. Oh, looks like their budget for any improvements has been cut by 20%. Where do you think they will make the cut from the development if they no longer have that income? It sure as hell isn't going to come from the one section that is still bringing in the money. You might think they are focusing on the CM now, but it will be the ONLY focus if that is the ONLY source of income.

 

It doesn't matter which is making more money - the Cartel Market won't be affected by this, but losing ANY revenue will affect the game, and the cuts will be in whichever section loses the revenue. No more subs=no more story.

 

And YES, you do have to write "in general" instead of trying to make out like the entire forum base is desperately screaming out for mergers, when it's really about 10 people on either side rehashing the same reasons for and against.

[BlackSilverRoar]

FTP and Preferred tend to be less geared and less experienced. They're usually like cannon fodder.

[Dzsewdow]

My impression is that EA/BW forces people into subscription. This impression of course is result of the f2p model being succesful in advertising the full game. Practicly, in order to be able to properly play and advance in all game aspects, one needs to subscribe. Which is normal. But for an addict who has developed an addiction based on freely provided stuff, the time when he is asked to pay if he wants more, will be bitter. It is this simple. Ethically or morally it would be more sound to make an initial purchase of 30 days necessary for all, but than the luring effect of f2p would be lost. So while I dont like swtor's f2p, in fact l left the game the after my 60 days subscription ended and I was faced with preferred restrictions, still coming back last december I felt necessary to subscribe to fully enjoy all aspects of the game. So there you have it. I hate it but it still works and makes me sub even if I find less and less tinw or incentive to keep playing.

[Eshvara]

Need to remember to put "Add a Crayon font for the forums" in the suggestion box

 

OK, yes, Bioware has quite a big focus on the Cartel Market. The money coming in from the Cartel Market will directly affect how much money and development is spent on that. With your suggestion, the amount of money spent in the Cartel Market won't change, so there won't be any change to their "fund". What you ARE suggesting is that losing the subscription money will have no affect on what is spent on the game. If there is no money coming in from subscriptions, then the only revenue will come from the Cartel Market.

 

Let's try and break it down with examples (these are completely fictional figures, I have no real reason for thinking they may be accurate.)

 

If Bioware currently make $4 million from the CM each month and $1 million from subscriptions, then they will still be making the $4 million after your change, but no $1 million. Oh, looks like their budget for any improvements has been cut by 20%. Where do you think they will make the cut from the development if they no longer have that income? It sure as hell isn't going to come from the one section that is still bringing in the money. You might think they are focusing on the CM now, but it will be the ONLY focus if that is the ONLY source of income.

 

It doesn't matter which is making more money - the Cartel Market won't be affected by this, but losing ANY revenue will affect the game, and the cuts will be in whichever section loses the revenue. No more subs=no more story.

 

And YES, you do have to write "in general" instead of trying to make out like the entire forum base is desperately screaming out for mergers, when it's really about 10 people on either side rehashing the same reasons for and against.

 

Oh it's just 10 people, silly Devs, why would they even want to attempt to take it into consideration or find some kind of solution to this nonexistent problem!!

 

I'm also still not sure why exactly giving preferred players a bit more freedom translates into whatever​ you seem to think it does.

We can just agree to disagree as there isn't going to be any point in discussing this any further.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Eshvara

[BlackSilverRoar]

"We're" crying out for mergers? Are "we"?

 

Once again, for the good of the game, it helps to have subscribers. To remove the last couple of obstacles that make people sub, would mean people stop subbing.

 

What's better - having people pay money to play the game, ensuring it's long term survival, or removing those pay barriers, and possibly having a couple of extra players for a couple of months till they get bored at no new content and walk away again anyway?

 

I know, really. I like how they tried to play the pro merge servers Now cr@p off as a symptom (*snickers).

[Hell_Kaiser_Fett]

FTP and Preferred tend to be less geared and less experienced. They're usually like cannon fodder.

 

For the most part yes, but for those mentioned preferred that had subbed for several months or even years, they probably have the artifact gear certification. Not saying every preferred does, but I myself do, and when I wasn't subbed I was on the same gear tier as my HM guild raid team.

[Ratajack]

Oh it's just 10 people, silly Devs, why would they even want to attempt to take it into consideration or find some kind of solution to this nonexistent problem!!

 

I'm also still not sure why exactly giving preferred players a bit more freedom translates into whatever​ you seem to think it does.

We can just agree to disagree as there isn't going to be any point in discussing this any further.

 

"A bit" more freedom?

 

Allow me to quote you:

 

Would having more people to do your content with, not help you out as a subscriber?

 

For PvP, people can queue for as much as they want, with no rewards, no cxp, no money, no Valor and whatever else it grants. Daily quests aren't available, they can just play. You can apply the same for GSF or ops.

 

It's what I thought would originally happen when Command rank came out as it was subscriber only.

If you have a subscriber friend or just ask in general chat, they can already queue you without you having to sub anyway, would it be so bad to do the same but without any real benefits except being to able to play?

 

Ranked could remain unavailable for preferred.

 

This is from a different thread, but it ties in very well and given your "suggestions" on what "a bit" more freedom preferred players (who are playing for FREE) is very telling to me:

 

PvP certainly doesn't require BiS at its core, and we don't want anything to do with BiS as PvP players. Unfortunately they merged everything together and if you want to stay competitive, you don't have much choice but to get BiS gear.

 

Imo BiS gear should stay for PvE, it's the case for many games, I don't get the sudden 180 with this system.

 

It should take a decent amount of time to get BiS gear for PvE players, PvP isn't about the gear, which is my main problem and of other PvP players.

 

25% buff they added doesn't make a difference as it's too little and it's per character. I can't really enjoy other classes in PvP with how slow it takes to level to rank 300 and get it geared. My main isn't even geared and it's been over a month now. For a PvP player this is ***** up!

 

I'd bet that I am not the only one who can see the connection now.

[Ratajack]

Are there any successful games out there that don't rely on subscribers?

 

How much is swtor already focusing on the cartel market when it comes to cosmetics?

 

What are they making more money from, subs of the cartel market?

 

Is swtor doing good in your opinion, is subscription really saving what's left of the game?

 

Do I have to write , "in general" when I say we, we're, or you?

 

Where does the extra money go into that subscribers pay, has it been in continuing to keep people happy by providing top quality content/story?

 

You probably don't have an answer for any of these, with maybe the exception of the last one.

I don't want bw to stop making as much money as they can, but I'd like them to be a little less stingy.

You are happy with swtor in its current state, and that's great it's your opinion and you like any other are allowed to have one.

 

G'day. o7

 

First, let's be honest. CM revenue is primarily "one hit" revenue. Once a player buys that CM shiny, there is not usually a need to buy more, especially with the collections system.

 

Which would be better for a company-- a continued, recurring revenue stream in the form of subscriptions or some "one time" influxes of revenue via the CM?

 

Second, BW has already stated that the VAST MAJORITY of CM revenue comes from SUBSCRIBERS and not F2p or preferred.

 

Following your logic, what do you think would happen to the CM revenue is BW gave away the store and people chose not to subscribe?

 

It seems to me that if subscribers make up the vast majority of CM revenue, that fewer subscribers would likely mean less CM revenue, as well.

 

Would there be those that c hose to freeload and still purchase CC's? Probably, but I'd bet those players would be a tiny minority.

[ZionHalcyon]

First, let's be honest. CM revenue is primarily "one hit" revenue. Once a player buys that CM shiny, there is not usually a need to buy more, especially with the collections system.

 

Which would be better for a company-- a continued, recurring revenue stream in the form of subscriptions or some "one time" influxes of revenue via the CM?

 

Second, BW has already stated that the VAST MAJORITY of CM revenue comes from SUBSCRIBERS and not F2p or preferred.

 

Following your logic, what do you think would happen to the CM revenue is BW gave away the store and people chose not to subscribe?

 

It seems to me that if subscribers make up the vast majority of CM revenue, that fewer subscribers would likely mean less CM revenue, as well.

 

Would there be those that c hose to freeload and still purchase CC's? Probably, but I'd bet those players would be a tiny minority.

 

What kills your entire argument is that the cartel Market or cash shopping any game usually outpaces what's brought in from subscribers after the first year of the game's existence.

 

The reason people like you don't get it is because the hardcore Gamers usually prefer subscriptions and to have the access. However, casual players like to do the dress up sort of things in the cartel market and pay for all the additional visual goodies, and oftentimes spend way more than the $15 a month subscriber would.

 

Casuals usually don't post on these forums and hardcore Gamers love to crap all over casual gamers. However without those casual gamers soaking up and contributing to that Revenue, population decreases and we see ourselves in the situation we have now.

 

Hardcore Gamers can draw the line in the sand all they want but the fact of the matter is for a game to be successful and have a high population you need the majority to be casuals. And casuals don't usually pay subscription model prices.

 

In the long run that one time hit on the Cartel Market more than balances out because you actually end up paying a higher premium for those one hit things then you would if you stayed subscribed.

 

The only real key to continue to make this work is to have a steady stream of content that is released via the Cartel Market, which subscribers get free reign on.

 

In the meantime if you want to talk real world examples, going to the free-to-play model I just described saved Dungeons and Dragons online and Lord of the Rings online from closing their doors forever and breathe new life into those games and allowed them to produce new content. That's two examples of doing it the way I said where it's saved the games.

[Ratajack]

What kills your entire argument is that the cartel Market or cash shopping any game usually outpaces what's brought in from subscribers after the first year of the game's existence.

 

The reason people like you don't get it is because the hardcore Gamers usually prefer subscriptions and to have the access. However, casual players like to do the dress up sort of things in the cartel market and pay for all the additional visual goodies, and oftentimes spend way more than the $15 a month subscriber would.

 

Casuals usually don't post on these forums and hardcore Gamers love to crap all over casual gamers. However without those casual gamers soaking up and contributing to that Revenue, population decreases and we see ourselves in the situation we have now.

 

Hardcore Gamers can draw the line in the sand all they want but the fact of the matter is for a game to be successful and have a high population you need the majority to be casuals. And casuals don't usually pay subscription model prices.

 

In the long run that one time hit on the Cartel Market more than balances out because you actually end up paying a higher premium for those one hit things then you would if you stayed subscribed.

 

The only real key to continue to make this work is to have a steady stream of content that is released via the Cartel Market, which subscribers get free reign on.

 

In the meantime if you want to talk real world examples, going to the free-to-play model I just described saved Dungeons and Dragons online and Lord of the Rings online from closing their doors forever and breathe new life into those games and allowed them to produce new content. That's two examples of doing it the way I said where it's saved the games.

 

Do you really expect anyone to believe that Johnny is too cheap (1) to pay $15 for a subscription to play this game with all the bells and whistles, but is willing to spend way more than the $15 a month to play "dress up", but with a credit cap?

 

(1) I say "too cheap" because if he can "spend way more than the $15 a month", he obviously can afford the $15 to subscribe, but chooses not to subscribe.

 

I find it far more likely that Johnny will not pay one red cent most months, and might buy some CC's if something particularly shiny is made available. Meanwhile Billy continues to subscribe every month and also purchases some CC's occasionally, and David subscribes every month and purchases CC's every month and several hypercrates every time a new pack is released.

[Kyrra_T]

What kills your entire argument is that the cartel Market or cash shopping any game usually outpaces what's brought in from subscribers after the first year of the game's existence.

 

The reason people like you don't get it is because the hardcore Gamers usually prefer subscriptions and to have the access. However, casual players like to do the dress up sort of things in the cartel market and pay for all the additional visual goodies, and oftentimes spend way more than the $15 a month subscriber would.

 

Casuals usually don't post on these forums and hardcore Gamers love to crap all over casual gamers. However without those casual gamers soaking up and contributing to that Revenue, population decreases and we see ourselves in the situation we have now.

 

Hardcore Gamers can draw the line in the sand all they want but the fact of the matter is for a game to be successful and have a high population you need the majority to be casuals. And casuals don't usually pay subscription model prices.

 

In the long run that one time hit on the Cartel Market more than balances out because you actually end up paying a higher premium for those one hit things then you would if you stayed subscribed.

 

The only real key to continue to make this work is to have a steady stream of content that is released via the Cartel Market, which subscribers get free reign on.

 

In the meantime if you want to talk real world examples, going to the free-to-play model I just described saved Dungeons and Dragons online and Lord of the Rings online from closing their doors forever and breathe new life into those games and allowed them to produce new content. That's two examples of doing it the way I said where it's saved the games.

 

I LEFT Lord of the Rings Online because of the ftp model they changed to. There was no point to subscribing,

or playing given the new toxic environment created by the ftp players. So, no I don't think that's a good model.

And I really don't want to see it repeated here. Subscription is a very small cost. The CC market is primarily funded by subscribers. I'm happy with SWTOR's model.

[Eshvara]

"A bit" more freedom?

 

Allow me to quote you:

 

 

 

This is from a different thread, but it ties in very well and given your "suggestions" on what "a bit" more freedom preferred players (who are playing for FREE) is very telling to me:

 

 

 

I'd bet that I am not the only one who can see the connection now.

 

I see what you're trying to say detective:rak_03:, but I actually want people to play with while I'm subbed and I want gear so I can be compete. I like to come and go in terms of playing, I don't stay subbed all year round, should unranked warzones be unlimited for F2P doesn't mean i'll never sub again, I'll still sub as much as I do now. I'll only be more likely to be willing to play in the times that I would be unsubbed.

 

Then purchase the weekly passes for WZ's, either from the CM directly, or from the GTN. Credits are easy to earn in this game, a few dailies will likely net you well over 300K.

"One of your older quotes"

If passes were available again, I would have just bought those instead of sub, unfortuneatly they removed them, for me at least it would be a great alternative for subbing for a lot of content I don't enjoy.

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/developer-update-warzone-arenas

But wait! There’s more!

 

What about PvP post-2.4? What is coming next, you wonder? Well it wouldn’t be a dev post without some teasing! Here are some of the things on the horizon we have in store for PvP.

Removing the F2P restriction for entering the Warzones

 

???

Clearly I wasn't the only one thinking this, but it never happend, I still wonder why, it jusst seems inconsistent to me.

 

___

 

First, let's be honest. CM revenue is primarily "one hit" revenue. Once a player buys that CM shiny, there is not usually a need to buy more, especially with the collections system.

- What about all the people that buy packs to resell for money doesn't that happen at all in your mind?

 

Which would be better for a company-- a continued, recurring revenue stream in the form of subscriptions or some "one time" influxes of revenue via the CM?

 

Again, what do you exactly mean by one time? I can buy a throne one time and unlock it, and "whales" will keep rebuying packs old and new to resell for credits. What exactly is this one time you speak of? The cartel market will never be about one time purchasing. When new packs are released, where do all the hypercrates come from that are on the gtn first day they are available to be resold after the lock out. Do you think each single person just buys one once?

 

Second, BW has already stated that the VAST MAJORITY of CM revenue comes from SUBSCRIBERS and not F2p or preferred.

 

I'm not arguing that subscribers don't spend the most money, I'm arguing whether actual subscription in itself brings more money than the CM does. That also takes in account Subscribers buying packs and other items to keep or resell.

 

Following your logic, what do you think would happen to the CM revenue is BW gave away the store and people chose not to subscribe?

I don't see the relevance of this correlation? It's a very odd question.

 

It seems to me that if subscribers make up the vast majority of CM revenue, that fewer subscribers would likely mean less CM revenue, as well.

 

I can understand the arguement that subscribers make up for the most of cm revenue, they don't have a credit cap to deal with amongst other things. What's the point of a preferred player wanting to sell things of the CM when they can't really use the credits they earned, they might as well sub! Well hey?

 

Would there be those that chose to freeload and still purchase CC's? Probably, but I'd bet those players would be a tiny minority.

My post above^

[Ratajack]

I see what you're trying to say detective:rak_03:, but I actually want people to play with while I'm subbed and I want gear so I can be compete. I like to come and go in terms of playing, I don't stay subbed all year round, should unranked warzones be unlimited for F2P doesn't mean i'll never sub again, I'll still sub as much as I do now. I'll only be more likely to be willing to play in the times that I would be unsubbed.

 

 

"One of your older quotes"

If passes were available again, I would have just bought those instead of sub, unfortuneatly they removed them, for me at least it would be a great alternative for subbing for a lot of content I don't enjoy.

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/developer-update-warzone-arenas

 

???

Clearly I wasn't the only one thinking this, but it never happend, I still wonder why, it jusst seems inconsistent to me.

 

___

 

If Johnny wants unlimited WZ's, then he can SUBSCRIBE.

 

If Johnny wants to play without a credit cap, then he can SUBSCRIBE.

 

In short, if Johnny wants "more", then he can SUBSCRIBE and stop asking, or expecting, to get the world for FREE.

[Eshvara]

If Johnny wants unlimited WZ's, then he can SUBSCRIBE.

 

If Johnny wants to play without a credit cap, then he can SUBSCRIBE.

 

In short, if Johnny wants "more", then he can SUBSCRIBE and stop asking, or expecting, to get the world for FREE.

 

Ah the dismissive route. G'day sir! o7

[ZionHalcyon]

I LEFT Lord of the Rings Online because of the ftp model they changed to. There was no point to subscribing,

or playing given the new toxic environment created by the ftp players. So, no I don't think that's a good model.

And I really don't want to see it repeated here. Subscription is a very small cost. The CC market is primarily funded by subscribers. I'm happy with SWTOR's model.

 

And a bunch of people ended up taking your place. By way of their cash shop.

 

Lord of the Rings online and Dungeons and Dragons online were both on the verge of closing for good when they decided to do the cash shop as a last-ditch effort to stay alive.

 

Yes some people got pissed off and left. But many more ended up trying the game and the money they brought in, by their developers own admission, from the cash shop far outweighed the yearly Revenue they were getting from subscribers beforehand.

 

It allowed them to start producing content again and even now they are still alive thanks to their cash shop. Hate to break it to you but Lord of the Rings Online is still kicking around and didn't die when you left.

 

If you guys need a more recent example we have our own game here Star Wars the Old Republic.

 

After launch, we had about a year a year-and-a-half of no content. Staff reduced and fired. Seemingly nothing new on the horizon.

 

Then they rolled out the Cartel Market. Within six months to a year content started coming out again.

 

It's not rocket science as to why. The Cartel Market produces nearly as much if not more money per year than the subscribers.

 

I want to say at those EA meetings around that time if you go one year to the next the revenue almost doubled or more from the year before when the cash shop was not in place to when it was.

 

Look I have no problems if people have a personal preference against the cash shop. However historically those cash shops and up helping that health of the game and the more people can buy from them so long as it is not pay to win, the more Revenue that ends up in the developers Pockets which ends up back into the content for the game and allows the game to keep going and stay healthy.

 

People arguing something different usually are arguing from a place of emotion and not a place of MMO history being on their side.

Edited July 8, 2017 by ZionHalcyon

[PROGOD]

Ah the dismissive route. G'day sir! o7

 

 

ignore it he clearly doesn't know how shareholder meetings can decided the fate of a product

[ZionHalcyon]

ignore it he clearly doesn't know how shareholder meetings can decided the fate of a product

 

This is what I typically find as well. The people who are the most vocal against cash shops, when presented with evidence that they do indeed help the game in terms of funding and production of playable content, tend to respond with even more shouting.