Discussion Topic: Bolster Changes in PvP

[brishae]

Remove Bolster

Bring back Warzone comms.

Bring back Expertise.

2 Vendors for PvP gear.

242 and 248.

Recruit gear set from mission terminal at a 236 Item level, with set bonus and 2018 expertise.

 

Game Fixed.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Im still waiting for specific numbers of subscription drops. Even further sub drops because of bolster issues. You keep claiming it, just like most of the stuff you claim, but still cant provide any data to prove it. Do you still believe the earth is flat, too?

 

I've put it up before and I can do so again to demonstrate a heavily declining population:

 

http://mirror.torstatus.net/shards/us/trends

 

Note the decrease for the past 11 months to where it at now - the lowest ever and for quite a sustained period of time.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20160910223731/http://www.torstatus.net:80/shards/us/trends

 

Internet archive is great for looking back even further - this makes the current picture even worse of course.

 

Now noting a declining population would you contend subscriber numbers then have actually increased or remained the same? Would you also contend that, even though this topic overwhelmingly has players saying they would PVP more/at all if there was no stat gear or bolster to max, more people PVP because of the reduced bolster and having stat gear?

Your logic is flawed, your counter argument is pretty much non existant and all it amounts to is "don't take my stat advantage away from me wah wah!".

 

Now as for stats and before you truly run away from this argument with your tail between your legs as you are trying to do (whilst pretending to take the higher ground of course) - you have still failed to support your statement:

 

Check the League of Legends population trend in the US. It has dropped nearly 35% over the past 2 years.

 

You speak of proof, numbers and evidence so where are yours because all you linked so far doesn't support ANY population decline in LoL.

[Icykill_]

Ive been accused of trying to speak for the whole pvp community regarding Bolster and I'm certainly not trying to. My goal was to put forward an argument in favour of a Bolster lvl that would remove a gear gap and give us skill vs skill pvp. I know a lot of us would prefer skill vs skill pvp, but some would prefer gear vs gear pvp.

 

It seems the discussion has now reached a point where people are just calling out others and people are having to repeat information already in the thread because people don't bother to read all the posts before accusing others of not putting forward a concise argument.

 

So let's actually see what people in this thread prefer. To do that I've put together a strawpoll that asks people to vote which lvl of Bolster want. I've started it at 242 (the lvl Bioware have said they will do), 248 (which is current BiS gear) and 250 (which is what it was when 5.0 launched).

 

This poll is obviously in no way binding and is only a glimpse of what some people want. But hopefully the people in this thread who have posted will vote and we can see what percentage of us want 242, 248 or 250, then we don't need to keep guessing.

 

http://www.strawpoll.me/13644464

 

So there is the link to the poll.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Ive been accused of trying to speak for the whole pvp community regarding Bolster and I'm certainly not trying to. My goal was to put forward an argument in favour of a Bolster lvl that would remove a gear gap and give us skill vs skill pvp. I know a lot of us would prefer skill vs skill pvp, but some would prefer gear vs gear pvp.

 

It seems the discussion has now reached a point where people are just calling out others and people are having to repeat information already in the thread because people don't bother to read all the posts before accusing others of not putting forward a concise argument.

 

So let's actually see what people in this thread prefer. To do that I've put together a strawpoll that asks people to vote which lvl of Bolster want. I've started it at 242 (the lvl Bioware have said they will do), 248 (which is current BiS gear) and 250 (which is what it was when 5.0 launched).

 

This poll is obviously in no way binding and is only a glimpse of what some people want. But hopefully the people in this thread who have posted will vote and we can see what percentage of us want 242, 248 or 250, then we don't need to keep guessing.

 

http://www.strawpoll.me/13644464

 

So there is the link to the poll.

 

Heh this should have been done at the start of the thread when people were reading it but oh well.

[Icykill_]

Heh this should have been done at the start of the thread when people were reading it but oh well.

 

True... but last time I started a poll I got trolled hard for it... so I've been avoiding making them... now I've unsubbed it won't matter.

Anyway, I guess better late than never.... hopefully those who participated in this thread are still checking it and will vote.

[Jdast]

Ive been accused of trying to speak for the whole pvp community regarding Bolster and I'm certainly not trying to. My goal was to put forward an argument in favour of a Bolster lvl that would remove a gear gap and give us skill vs skill pvp. I know a lot of us would prefer skill vs skill pvp, but some would prefer gear vs gear pvp.

 

It seems the discussion has now reached a point where people are just calling out others and people are having to repeat information already in the thread because people don't bother to read all the posts before accusing others of not putting forward a concise argument.

 

So let's actually see what people in this thread prefer. To do that I've put together a strawpoll that asks people to vote which lvl of Bolster want. I've started it at 242 (the lvl Bioware have said they will do), 248 (which is current BiS gear) and 250 (which is what it was when 5.0 launched).

 

This poll is obviously in no way binding and is only a glimpse of what some people want. But hopefully the people in this thread who have posted will vote and we can see what percentage of us want 242, 248 or 250, then we don't need to keep guessing.

 

http://www.strawpoll.me/13644464

 

So there is the link to the poll.

 

The bizarre irony, is that our disagreement, at least with respect to just the two of us -- is that I think the bolster level should be 244. But two things about your poll: 1) by your own acknowledgment, it's not binding -- frankly it doesn't even approach being scientific. But more importantly, 2) WHO CARES?

 

Do you really think game design should in any way be based on what a few passionate forum posters think?

 

This isn't white-knighting. I think it should be 244 or 246. I think the new UC change for ranked is ill thought out. You have done incredible work on behalf of the PvP community in terms of gearing and showing bugs with respect to how bolster works. You deserve immense credit for that --

 

But that doesn't make you ambassador for how the broader system should work. I've been here 9 months and was here for the 1st year. I have over 2 million kills (provable) on WoW (which means even more before armory) I love PvP. So maybe, just maybe....

 

PARTICULARLY SINCE KEITH HAS ALREADY SAID THEY BELIEVE IN THE GEARING SYSTEM...

 

Admit you lost on bolster being BIS and focus on working together with us on how to improve the gearing system, which I agree is currently screwed up.

 

Olive Branch,

 

Dasty

Edited August 7, 2017 by Jdast

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I think it should be 244 or 246.

 

But more importantly, 2) WHO CARES?

 

Heh

[mishin_max]

Just remove all bolsters and make impossible to queue solo ranked without 240 gear if 248 is top for example. And make impossible to queue if char has no augmentation.

The same for PVE. Ppl want to use their privileges deserved with long farming of top gear. Even on veteran mode plz.

[olagatonjedi]

So you are saying they should keep the sinking ship system in place because a few people grinded for it whilst many more were put off from PVP, if not the game entirely? The system should just stay in place, let those few who bother grinding play PVP amongst themselves, who cares if it's an archaic and flawed system that drives more people away from PVP than it will attract.

 

 

 

There is no point to having 4 tiers of gear for PVP except to target the OCD players and drive the casuals awauy, it is up on the top 10 list of stupidest things they've done to this game.

 

 

 

For you, for the majority they would prefer 250. Read the thread.

 

 

 

Lol right lets cater to just your whims now. On one hand you don't want anyone else to get what you got from your grinding but now you want all your other toons to get easy street with legacy gear heh.

 

 

 

It might not be difficult work but it's more than a "little" work. I actually feel incredibly sorry for anyone who has purposely grinded out 248 gear ... what a waste of life. I get some can target it through raiding and the grind is nowhere near as bad and others have gotten 248 gear just from their normal play but for those that actually targeted it and grinded it ... wow, thanks for supporting a ****** system and making BWA think it's actually what the players want.

 

I say GG for you when they add tiers 5 and 6 later on this year.

 

 

 

Gearing is A reason for it though, it deters more people than it attracts. Why put in systems that drive more people away than it keeps or attracts? It's just poor business sense.

 

 

 

 

Or, as they said, they will unsub and that's one left person who you to PVP with. One less person means thatl ittle less chance of timely queue pops. It all adds up but have fun sitting in your stronghold decorating or trolling gen chat or whatever floats ya boat whilst you wait for those queue pops.

I'm sure that player will be having fun playing something else and when they realize how much better it can be elsewhere, they likely won't be back.

What sinking ship are you talking about? Just because a game loses a few of their vocal minority doesn't mean the ship is sinking. For all you know (because you don't provide statistical proof), SWTOR subs and population could be on the up-side when comparing itself to other MMORPG's on the market, despite the "huge exodus" of players you seem to exaggerate about.

 

I would imagine that part of your belief is that you are comparing 2017 swtor to 2011/2012 swtor (not just population), and that's just a bad comparison in and of itself because the markets and interests fluctuate daily, weekly, yearly. What was popular back then doesn't necessarily have the same popularity now. What worked back then isn't guaranteed to work now. Veterans can provide insight into the game, but it also comes at a cost - they are unwilling to change because they carry the Al Bundy Syndrome, always remembering the glory days, instead of looking at something in its current state and seeing that something may be working as efficiently, just differently. New players and new subs don't carry the knowledge of glory days, so they take the current state as it's baseline and understand the strengths/weaknesses differently. While bioware may want to have as many subs as possible, I'm certain they would prefer a new player who is excited about the current system over a veteran that is hanging on a thread with expectations based on previous builds.

 

Speaking of efficiency, sometimes statistical comparison isn't about raw numbers such as population, but % of the current population that is participating in something, and that's one of the things you fail to understand. While you can spout off population trends and declines all you want, Bioware may have already conceded population loss as part of MMO trends, in general, but their metrics may show that a higher % of their population likes GC/CXP, and the current state of PvP vs the vocal % that post on these PvP forums calling for change. And you may not be willing, or capable, of understanding this. That's ok. The nice thing about your situation is that you can leave whenever you like. If you don't like the way a game is changing, there are all those other MMO's or MOBA's or PvP-centric games out there that may be able to suit your interests better. It's very likely that you are incapable of enjoying the grind required for character progression like other people. That's also fine. Nobody is forcing you to play this game, at least as far as I know. People who open and maintain businesses know this going in - you can't please everyone. I've worked customer service management before, and one thing that was pretty universal was we knew not matter how hard we tried to address tangible concerns of customers threatening to leave or go somewhere, we just never could, and it wasn't for lack of trying - something I believe BW is attempting to do for ALL their customers, not just the vocal minority.

 

I've put it up before and I can do so again to demonstrate a heavily declining population:

 

Now noting a declining population would you contend subscriber numbers then have actually increased or remained the same? Would you also contend that, even though this topic overwhelmingly has players saying they would PVP more/at all if there was no stat gear or bolster to max, more people PVP because of the reduced bolster and having stat gear?

Your logic is flawed, your counter argument is pretty much non existant and all it amounts to is "don't take my stat advantage away from me wah wah!".

 

Now as for stats and before you truly run away from this argument with your tail between your legs as you are trying to do (whilst pretending to take the higher ground of course) - you have still failed to support your statement:

 

 

 

You speak of proof, numbers and evidence so where are yours because all you linked so far doesn't support ANY population decline in LoL.

First, populations don't transfer 1:1 as subs. And based on your population sites alone, a correlation cannot be made. Existing subs may not have the same login habits as players who played when the game was new, as expected. I can tell you from personal experience that when the game launched, I would play 12 hours a day just trying to max out my toon with both PvE and PvP gear, take control of the GTN market through crafting, and make a name for myself so I would be whispered first for ops runs. As time went on, as I completed content and didn't have a race anymore, I started logging in more casually, and thus my contribution to the population trend decreased it. I'm not the only one who did that, either. Though I cannot conclude that their reasoning was the same as mine. I'm sure some got tired of the grinding, though it's one of the mainstays of MMORPG's, in general. I'm sure there are other reasons that forum posters can add.

Edited August 7, 2017 by olagatonjedi

[olagatonjedi]

http://www.strawpoll.me/13644464

 

So there is the link to the poll.

Does that fact that I was able to vote 3 times from different locations skew these results?

[LordTurin]

Does that fact that I was able to vote 3 times from different locations skew these results?

 

Yes it does. And so does phrasing a question about what the gear gap should be as "What level should bolster be at for there to be no gear gap", as now it's a factual question (either 248 or 250 are correct) vs. what she actually wanted to (well no, we all know what she actually wanted, but at least what she claims to want to ask anyway) which is "Should there be a gear gap, and if so, what level should bolster be set at?".

 

Ah random internet polls. Giving everyone a laugh since Al Gore invented the internet

Edited August 7, 2017 by LordTurin

[Jdast]

Icy,

 

Can you give us one good reason why polls based on forum users should be a good tool for development?

 

/waiting

 

Dasty

 

P.S. Not that it matters, but the question should have simply been asked: "What level should bolster be set at?" You're not Menace, raise the level of debate.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Jdast

[Icykill_]

Icy,

 

Can you give us one good reason why polls based on forum users should be a good tool for development?

 

/waiting

 

Dasty

 

P.S. Not that it matters, but the question should have simply been asked: "What level should bolster be set at?" You're not Menace, raise the level of debate.

 

It's not, I made it to stop people arguing about how many people were asking for what in this thread. I do not think Bioware will even see it or care. This is purely for the people posting or reading this thread so we can actually get an idea of what people prefer.

 

If my poll isn't up to your standard, please feel free to make one yourself and then you can ask what ever you want.

[Icykill_]

Does that fact that I was able to vote 3 times from different locations skew these results?

 

Of course it does, but it's a public poll site and the best I can set up is blocking double posts from the same IP/Interenet connection. I'm sorry I don't have the UN inspectors handy to secure the polling like they do for elections. I guess we'll just have to have a little faith that people aren't all douche bags and vote from multiple seperate locations 🙄

 

The people who should be setting this up is Bioware and it should be per subscriber account and on the login screen. I think that is the only way to get real results. But considering this is just for the readers and Bioware wouldn't use it anyway, it's a way to get an idea on what people are asking for.

[Icykill_]

Heh this should have been done at the start of the thread when people were reading it but oh well.

 

As you can probably see, the accusations of bias and trolling has begun since I replied to you because I started the poll and it's not the way some people want it. That's why I didn't start one sooner. Apparently anything I say now is troll worthy so I'm just going to stay quiet for a bit.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

What sinking ship are you talking about? Just because a game loses a few of their vocal minority doesn't mean the ship is sinking. For all you know (because you don't provide statistical proof), SWTOR subs and population could be on the up-side when comparing itself to other MMORPG's on the market, despite the "huge exodus" of players you seem to exaggerate about.

 

I offer you one of the only sources to show population trend is on the decline and you offer me "maybe it's not" - sorry but if you have nothing at all to demonstrate a trend to the contrary you are quite frankly ... still talking ****.

 

 

I would imagine that part of your belief is that you are comparing 2017 swtor to 2011/2012 swtor (not just population), and that's just a bad comparison in and of itself because the markets and interests fluctuate daily, weekly, yearly.

What was popular back then doesn't necessarily have the same popularity now. What worked back then isn't guaranteed to work now.

 

No, I'm really not. It's a trend over the last year and further back via the internet archive. Your strawman nonsense won't save you here.

 

While bioware may want to have as many subs as possible, I'm certain they would prefer a new player who is excited about the current system over a veteran that is hanging on a thread with expectations based on previous builds.

 

I'm sure they would rather have as many players and subs as possible and when the statistics show their population is dwindling then clearly they are losing more players than they are gaining new ones.

 

Maybe in your fantasy world things are different - I mean this is a fantasy game after all so why not pretend some imaginary population whilst you are it eh?

 

Speaking of efficiency, sometimes statistical comparison isn't about raw numbers such as population, but % of the current population that is participating in something, and that's one of the things you fail to understand. While you can spout off population trends and declines all you want, Bioware may have already conceded population loss as part of MMO trends,

 

So they concede to continue with a dwindling product making decisions around it being an MMO because it's an MMO even though those decision might continue to cause the population dwindle? You do realize they are a business right? They aren't a charity here to make all your dreams a reality. Wow your argument get even more ludicrous every post.

 

 

in general, but their metrics may show that a higher % of their population likes GC/CXP,

 

When there are only 100 players left even then I doubt their metrics will show that. You are grasping at straws and blatantly inventing "what if" scenarios now. Come on back to reality anytime please.

 

and the current state of PvP vs the vocal % that post on these PvP forums calling for change.

 

Vs nearly everyone in this thread? Oh right, they ask for feedback but only those that want change bothered to give feedback. That is of course what someone on the losing side of the argument would love to believe.

 

Truth is you the vocal minority in this case unfortunately for you. Why? You are being equally vocal and you are in the minority. This thread serves as evidence and you've offered nothing what so ever as counter evidence.

 

In fact laughably the only time you did try offer something in the way of "evidence" you offered a page to tryp rove LoL had lost 35% of it US population when that page never said anything of the sort. When called it on you snuck back into your hole making a wee squeak about "im sure you can work it out".

 

The nice thing about your situation is that you can leave whenever you like.

 

Sure can and i can offer up reasoned ideas for improvement of this game and debate and arguments to that end. Unfortunately I often encounter your sort that when left with no actual logical argument to stand on the resort to inane, fantasy scenarios about how the game might actually not be declining at all <or insert whatever other argument it may be here>.

 

 

If you don't like the way a game is changing, there are all those other MMO's or MOBA's or PvP-centric games out there that may be able to suit your interests better.

That's also fine. Nobody is forcing you to play this game, at least as far as I know.

 

Ah yes the last desperate act of a doomed man - it's the "if you don't like it go somewhere else" argument everyone. The one you use when you can't possibly support your own argument anymore so hope to scare the other person away with pitiful ploys such as this. Sorry - not working.

 

People who open and maintain businesses know this going in - you can't please everyone. I've worked customer service management before, and one thing that was pretty universal was we knew not matter how hard we tried to address tangible concerns of customers threatening to leave or go somewhere, we just never could, and it wasn't for lack of trying - something I believe BW is attempting to do for ALL their customers, not just the vocal minority.

 

I note you use the word "worked" there. Based on your general lack of business sense you seem to demonstrate in your posts I would say I'm not surprised at all that is the past tense.

 

Good business sense is about catering to the biggest majority of players possible for your game. In regards to the PVP players you are the minority in your wants and thus should not be catered to - unless of course you've conjured up some evidence to the contrary that implies you aren't the minority here aside from "because I said so"?

 

First, populations don't transfer 1:1 as subs. And based on your population sites alone, a correlation cannot be made. Existing subs may not have the same login habits as players who played when the game was new, as expected. I can tell you from personal experience that when the game launched, I would play 12 hours a day just trying to max out my toon with both PvE and PvP gear, take control of the GTN market through crafting, and make a name for myself so I would be whispered first for ops runs. As time went on, as I completed content and didn't have a race anymore, I started logging in more casually, and thus my contribution to the population trend decreased it. I'm not the only one who did that, either. Though I cannot conclude that their reasoning was the same as mine. I'm sure some got tired of the grinding, though it's one of the mainstays of MMORPG's, in general. I'm sure there are other reasons that forum posters can add.

 

Lol you know you are desperate when you try to pretend like the declining population trend might not also mean a declining subscriber base. Heck when I put it up before even some of the staunchest white knights agreed the population is in decline (of course the discussion was that doesn't neccessarily mean the game is about to die, I've not stated that, just the direction it is going in is bleeding players and it's getting worse). what was it you said about believing the world is flat before? You must have wanted me to join your group of believers in this or something then I assume?

 

Still waiting for you to go a shred of credibility back and support your "LoL has lost 35% of its players of the past 2 years in the US". Whilst I would be remiss to say all your argument are **** because of that nonsense one so far that's the closest you've come to offering anything close to evidence to support anything you've said so it certianly paints everything else in a pretty poor light.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Does that fact that I was able to vote 3 times from different locations skew these results?

 

If it's for anything than "250" then it would actually make it even worse for those in favor of a lesser bolster ...

 

It's funny though because even though it's no doubt simple to rig results for straw polls I always find the ones the loudest about their inaccuracy are the ones on the losing side of things ... you would think if it were so easy to skew they would do so in their favor and then talk about how nonsense it is ... *shrug* some people hate to be wrong I guess.

[Jdast]

As you can probably see, the accusations of bias and trolling has begun since I replied to you because I started the poll and it's not the way some people want it. That's why I didn't start one sooner. Apparently anything I say now is troll worthy so I'm just going to stay quiet for a bit.

 

You have a broad definition of trolling. Pointing out methodological flaws is not trolling. That's because: a) the way you phrased the question; and b) by your own acknowledgment, the poll is worthless since it just forum users; and c) the question you keep avoiding --

 

EVEN IF you do somehow get a reliable poll, you still can't answer why on Alderaan that is a good tool for development. I mean, if we're going to turn it in to mob rule, why not ask: "Should CXP be earned 10x faster so people can level alts faster?" Yes / No? Gee, no bias there.

 

All the best,

 

Dasty

Edited August 7, 2017 by Jdast

[olagatonjedi]

Stuff.

Use the word strawman as much as you want, but it won't change facts

 

Bioware is a business. They have a room full of people with potential to lose their jobs if the MMO isn't up to their standards, whatever they may be. They have no reason not to look at all the information they can regarding the trends of the game. So I'm sure that population trends are included in that information.

 

That said......

 

They have already said they are not changing bolster to 248, 250 or anything above 242. So it doesn't matter what posts and links and arguments you make. It doesn't matter what polls are put up. Bolster will be 242, done. That's the only proof that is needed, tbh. And it has nothing to do with grasping for straws (though I'm certain you will say it again, lol).

 

You can sit there believing whatever you want to believe about the state of the game, the demise of swtor, the sky is falling, arguing for your personal agenda, and that is fine and dandy. But it doesn't appear that it will change things one bit.

 

Meanwhile, I, and others, will continue logging in, enjoying the game in its current state, asking for certain improvements using valid reasoning rather than irrational and overexaggerrated arguments, knowing that the upcoming bolster changes will not break PvP or ruin incentive for gearing because its going to a max of 242.

[Foambreaker]

Use the word strawman as much as you want, but it won't change facts

 

Bioware is a business. They have a room full of people with potential to lose their jobs if the MMO isn't up to their standards, whatever they may be. They have no reason not to look at all the information they can regarding the trends of the game. So I'm sure that population trends are included in that information.

 

That said......

 

They have already said they are not changing bolster to 248, 250 or anything above 242. So it doesn't matter what posts and links and arguments you make. It doesn't matter what polls are put up. Bolster will be 242, done. That's the only proof that is needed, tbh. And it has nothing to do with grasping for straws (though I'm certain you will say it again, lol).

 

You can sit there believing whatever you want to believe about the state of the game, the demise of swtor, the sky is falling, arguing for your personal agenda, and that is fine and dandy. But it doesn't appear that it will change things one bit.

 

Meanwhile, I, and others, will continue logging in, enjoying the game in its current state, asking for certain improvements using valid reasoning rather than irrational and overexaggerrated arguments, knowing that the upcoming bolster changes will not break PvP or ruin incentive for gearing because its going to a max of 242.

 

So if someone doesn't like a decision, stay silent, is that correct comrade?

[Foambreaker]

82 pages later:

 

People with 248 gear: Protecting advantage

People without: Looking for fair play

 

Score is even.

 

Person who posts last has the winning opinion

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Use the word strawman as much as you want, but it won't change facts

 

Facts require evidence, not made up fantasy.

The only fact I've seen from you is the fact you were using that strawman methodology though.

Bioware is a business. They have a room full of people with potential to lose their jobs if the MMO isn't up to their standards, whatever they may be. They have no reason not to look at all the information they can regarding the trends of the game. So I'm sure that population trends are included in that information.

 

Because they've never misread analytics before? Hmmm let me think of a recent example. Oh yeah ... GC/CXP - Ben Irving lead that charge, community revolted, he defended the system, community revolted further, no more Ben Irving (it's pretty strange to quickly replace him so quickly after a major expansion release and so suddenly).

 

Did his metrics tell him that people actually loved GC/CXP and to do more of it or was his misreading metrics or doing what he thought best anyway? Never assume businesses can't make colossal stuff ups or that personal egos can drive poor decision making.

 

They have already said they are not changing bolster to 248, 250 or anything above 242. So it doesn't matter what posts and links and arguments you make. It doesn't matter what polls are put up. Bolster will be 242, done. That's the only proof that is needed, tbh. And it has nothing to do with grasping for straws (though I'm certain you will say it again, lol).

 

So your logic is anytime they say something it's set in stone and we should just all be quiet and accept it.

That must be why they put gear drops back in operations right? Because "too bad this is how it is" heh. I could make more examples but it was pretty easy to shut down that cop out of yours.

 

You're not the first person to try this tired cop out of an argument in this thread either, let's hope you are the last. You are basically just stating this because you can no longer hold a logical argument anymore, every point you'vem ade is either pure fantasy or been utterly shot down. Now you resort to "too bad this is what they are doing so no point discussing it" which begs the question ... why are you discussing it? Take your own advice. I will continue to do what I feel is right and best for the community and that is posting against poor design decisions in this case.

 

You can sit there believing whatever you want to believe about the state of the game, the demise of swtor, the sky is falling, arguing for your personal agenda, and that is fine and dandy. But it doesn't appear that it will change things one bit.

 

Until either it does change things, I stop playing altogether or the games does close. In the mean time advocating positive change is not a bad thing. You seem to view it bad as you seem to be coming from a selfish perspective where you do not want to lose your personal advantage.

Meanwhile, I, and others, will continue logging in, enjoying the game in its current state, asking for certain improvements using valid reasoning rather than irrational and overexaggerrated arguments, knowing that the upcoming bolster changes will not break PvP or ruin incentive for gearing because its going to a max of 242

 

Let me know when you learn the definition of "valid reasoning" and when you can give an example of it ... is it anything like "LoL lost 35% of their population in the US over the past 2 years"? That one was gold and no I'm not going to let that one go until you prove it or admit you were wrong.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

82 pages later:

 

People with 248 gear: Protecting advantage

People without: Looking for fair play

 

Score is even.

 

Person who posts last has the winning opinion

 

Winning!

[olagatonjedi]

So if someone doesn't like a decision, stay silent, is that correct comrade?

Not at all. I encourage speaking up, as that is how a common, or differing voice, may be heard.

 

However, he, and many others, have already voiced their concerns prior to the decision by BW. The decision was still made. Posting population numbers and threats that "lots of people are leaving," before, and now after the decision, doesn't appear to be a very productive way to get the changes made that they seek. Saying it over and over again when they have already stated they heard the feedback typically gets them to stop reading entirely. Almost to the extent of childish behavior - mama, can I, mama, can I, mama, can I, mama, can I, mama, can I. The answer typically remains no.

 

At this point, I would suggest a new strategy, or bring new information to light that may sway them to revisit the changes, because obviously the prior argument didn't achieve the intended results.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Not at all. I encourage speaking up, as that is how a common, or differing voice, may be heard.

 

However, he, and many others, have already voiced their concerns prior to the decision by BW. The decision was still made. Posting population numbers and threats that "lots of people are leaving," before, and now after the decision, doesn't appear to be a very productive way to get the changes made that they seek. Saying it over and over again when they have already stated they heard the feedback typically gets them to stop reading entirely. Almost to the extent of childish behavior - mama, can I, mama, can I, mama, can I, mama, can I, mama, can I. The answer typically remains no.

 

At this point, I would suggest a new strategy, or bring new information to light that may sway them to revisit the changes, because obviously the prior argument didn't achieve the intended results.

 

You do realize people are just replying to you right? The only reason anything is being stated over and over again is because you keep posting arbitrary, unfounded statements that require said responses to basically show those statements for what they are.