Class Changes: Corruption Sorcerer / Seer Consular

[krfsm]

My suggestions for changes to the changes.

 

Sorcerer

Reduced the amount of healing done by Dark Heal by 4.86%

Keep this without reduction. The other sorcs have it rough enough as it is, and nobody uses hard casted dark heals anyway. Also, if you reduce crit rate (see below), it will impact dark heal too.

 

Reduced the amount of damage absorbed by Static Barrier by 5.3%

Let this go on efficacious currents instead of static barrier directly, so it only impacts corruption and not the dps specs.

 

Corruption

Increased the base Force cost of Dark Infusion from 45 to 50 and the amount of healing it does by 3.38%

Since this is the "cheap but slow" heal, consider keeping this at 45 force and have something else take the 5 force hit.

 

Reduced the amount of healing done by Innervate by 8.74%

Since you're nerfing pretty much all healing abilities, consider removing parts of the force crit bonus from life surge instead. That would impact healing, plus it would make it less certain to get a force surge stack from a plain innervate.

 

Reduced the amount of healing done by Revivification by 10%

Consider removing revivification from dark concentration. That would indirectly increase the cost of revivification and make dark infusion more worthwhile.

 

Force Bending now reduces the activation time of Dark Infusion by 0.25 seconds (down from 0.5 seconds) and the Force cost of Revivification by 20% (down from 30%); all other Force Bending effects remain unchanged

Since you're chopping off most of the alternatives to bending innervate, consider reducing the crit bonus on bended innervate instead of taking a straight damage nerf on innervate.

 

Increased the base Force cost of Resurgence from 40 to 50 and the amount of healing done by its initial heal by 10.59%, but reduced the amount of healing done by its heal-over-time by 14.29%

Reduced the amount of healing done by Renewal by 14.29%

Consider having renewal clip the dot and only give the fixed heal. That would encourage riding the buff in a similar way to reverse corruptions.

 

Increased the base Force cost of Roaming Mend from 65 to 70 and reduced the amount of healing it does by 25.22%

Secrets of the Dark Side no longer increases the healing done by Roaming Mend by 5%, but still reduces its Force cost

Consider a smaller healing nerf, but keep cost higher by having secrets of the dark side reduce cost less (only 5 force less). Also consider eliminating double tap, as double tap trivializes both tank healing and pvp healing.

 

Other considerations:

 

Since force management is a bit easy, there might be room for smaller adjustments to consuming darkness and reverse corruptions. Maybe 5 less force from consuming darkness (though check if this works with the dps specs, or give them a corresponding 5 force boost) and shorten reverse corruptions to 8 seconds (4 force less if riding all the way). That would make it a harder choice when having only one stack of force surge - get needed heals in, or get the force from the free consumption.

[ivanhedgehog]

so much for their new "transparency". They arent interested in feedback of any sort, they posted the nerfs and will in no way discuss them with anybody. No pts, no discussion. Kieth is no different than those who came before him, he just talks a better line.

[VirtualMorrigan]

so much for their new "transparency". They arent interested in feedback of any sort, they posted the nerfs and will in no way discuss them with anybody. No pts, no discussion. Kieth is no different than those who came before him, he just talks a better line.

 

Yes, you get it.

 

There is no discussion, only the illusion of one to keep the forum occupied and posting here where it can be moderated instead of, say, reddit. That's all it is.

[Dweezill]

If only the changes to madness were as drastic

 

Also, the nerf to static barrier is pretty hilarious

Edited July 1, 2017 by Dweezill

[Ramalina]

Keep in mind when discussing the force costs, that the core Seer/Corruption force regeneration mechanics have not changed in terms of force pool or how the regen is gotten.

 

What HAS changed, is that we no longer need to trade health for regeneration. It's a great QoL change, but the healer force mechanics are still built around that tradeoff. In the old days, if you didn't keep a cushion of force there was a real risk that if you got too low on the combined resource pools you'd die. So functionally, you'd want to keep well away from your force pool being empty. To make it more forgiving, the class started with a large resource pool and very generous per skill use regeneration because the underlying assumption was that emptying the force pool below a certain level, or using regen cooldowns too rapidly could cause a catastrophic failure for the healer.

 

Now that there's no longer a health tradeoff, those cushions of force pool and regen rate are routinely useable without penalty. That's a large part of the answer to, "whatever happened to force management for Seers and Corruption Sorcs?"

[MidichIorian]

Just got back to the game so not sure how OP sage/sorc healing (seemingly) has been latey but jeez, from the look of those changes it must have been ridiculously OP.

 

Here's the thing though, since I returned I've heard more about how the dps specs suck rather than how good the heal spec is. The changes to madness/balance didnt really reflect that Nor can I ever remember madness/balance being anything more than a stat padding spec in PvP, looks good on the scoreboard but how much did they really do?

 

Lastly, from the look of the replies I'd say that the devs still completely ignore community feedback. I say "still" because I remember back in the day when pretty much every sage/sorc was on the same page and the devs took it in the completely opposite direction. And the suggestions were by no means unreasonable ot biased yet NONE of it was implemented. Nothing!

Edited July 3, 2017 by MidichIorian

[VirtualMorrigan]

J

Lastly, from the look of the replies I'd say that the devs still completely ignore community feedback. I say "still" because I remember back in the day when pretty much every sage/sorc was on the same page and the devs took it in the completely opposite direction. And the suggestions were by no means unreasonable ot biased yet NONE of it was implemented. Nothing!

 

Yep. We got a "new" name and face, the pretense that said new face is actually playing the game and therefore is "one of us", and some new phrases about how communication is now different, but sum total, it the same as ever. Only worse, since with the state the game is in, patience is no longer an abundant resource. But as long as there are enough people to still jump every time they throw a stick, nothing willchange. Why would it.

[Elusive_Thing]

Just got back to the game so not sure how OP sage/sorc healing (seemingly) has been latey but jeez, from the look of those changes it must have been ridiculously OP.

 

Here's the thing though, since I returned I've heard more about how the dps specs suck rather than how good the heal spec is. The changes to madness/balance didnt really reflect that Nor can I ever remember madness/balance being anything more than a stat padding spec in PvP, looks good on the scoreboard but how much did they really do?

 

Lastly, from the look of the replies I'd say that the devs still completely ignore community feedback. I say "still" because I remember back in the day when pretty much every sage/sorc was on the same page and the devs took it in the completely opposite direction. And the suggestions were by no means unreasonable ot biased yet NONE of it was implemented. Nothing!

Yup. Around a week until the changes go live and they haven't even responded. While this thread had replies that were not constructive or helpful, there has also been a good deal of proper discussion along with excellent suggestions. Oh well, I have been mentally preparing for these changes.

[HeBecTyJlKa]

... so here we are, with less than a week until the 5.3 patch is supposed to be live we stay with empty hands: no final patch notes, no PTS testing opportunity, no response from the Combat team to the players' feedback in a 450+ replies thread.

 

In this very same thread, there are some really good suggestions to what could resolve the PvP "sorc raid boss" issues while not nerfing the PvE healing to the ground. I personally was expecting to see an answer to the valid suggestions at the very least, as part of the whole "open communication with the players" plan.

 

The only reason I can think of that would explain the Dev team's silence is that they are going to nerf the other two healing specs as well, to bring us all together down to the HPS targets they have in mind - by doing this they will make healing more challenging for everyone, with which I am totally fine! Maybe the nerfs for Ops/Mercs won't be as harsh as the Sorcs' ones, but still that would justify the big numbers in here.

 

If that is not the case, then I am truly disappointed in the team that is supposed to bring balance the Game, not leave it in darkness! You were the Chosen one

Edited July 4, 2017 by HeBecTyJlKa

[ivanhedgehog]

... so here we are, with less than a week until the 5.3 patch is supposed to be live we stay with empty hands: no final patch notes, no PTS testing opportunity, no response from the Combat team to the players' feedback in a 450+ replies thread.

 

In this very same thread, there are some really good suggestions to what could resolve the PvP "sorc raid boss" issues while not nerfing the PvE healing to the ground. I personally was expecting to see an answer to the valid suggestions at the very least, as part of the whole "open communication with the players" plan.

 

The only reason I can think of that would explain the Dev team's silence is that they are going to nerf the other two healing specs as well, to bring us all together down to the HPS targets they have in mind - by doing this they will make healing more challenging for everyone, with which I am totally fine! Maybe the nerfs for Ops/Mercs won't be as harsh as the Sorcs' ones, but still that would justify the big numbers in here.

 

If that is not the case, then I am truly disappointed in the team that is supposed to bring balance the Game, not leave it in darkness! You were the Chosen one

 

The combat team has said in the past that they dont care how broken they leave the game as long as they hit their dps/hps targets. Making it work with content is someone elses problem.

[VirtualMorrigan]

The combat team has said in the past that they dont care how broken they leave the game as long as they hit their dps/hps targets. Making it work with content is someone elses problem.

 

Sounds quite accurate, going by what they are doing. Seems they are hell-bent on really *********** this game up as much as possible.

[Elusive_Thing]

The combat team has said in the past that they dont care how broken they leave the game as long as they hit their dps/hps targets. Making it work with content is someone elses problem.

And looks like they are not adjusting all the DPS/HPS/DTPS numbers in this spec, so it will be quite a while before they will get to adjusting defensives, utilities and whatnot. Will be some curious months ahead.

[Pizca]

"Reduced the amount of damage absorbed by Static Barrier by 5.3%"

I can't understand why that change. From pvp point of view , this class is not going to be much fun to play ;(.

With the new changes force management will be harder and healing will be nerf., I can understand that ...

But why do you reduce amount of damage absorved to Static Barrier?????

Who was complaning about that ? What was wrong with that ??? We are gonna be so squishy now , that I think is not going to be fun at all to play this class, all my healing will be just done to heal my self trying to survive more than 30 seconds in the warzone.

[VirtualMorrigan]

And nooooo reply to any of this. Improved communication, huh? In BW's case that means apparently posting the patch notes here a bit before the patch drops and that's it.

[ottffsse]

And nooooo reply to any of this. Improved communication, huh? In BW's case that means apparently posting the patch notes here a bit before the patch drops and that's it.

 

They have a thread in general chat responding to feedback to 5.3 changes, arsenal corruption and madness were discussed. In the case of arsenal and corruption devs said to "suck it up" basically.

[VirtualMorrigan]

They have a thread in general chat responding to feedback to 5.3 changes, arsenal corruption and madness were discussed. In the case of arsenal and corruption devs said to "suck it up" basically.

 

Time to let my subscription lapse, then. Well done, BW.

[realleaftea]

It's generally not you who's about to die in those cases. It's that tank with 2% health, the death of whom will wipe the raid. No medkit or DCD can help you save that tank.

If the tanks have used all their DCDs and medkits and neither my co-healer nor I have a more potent heal ready, I doubt a 9k heal after 1.35s will keep them alive.

 

I've heard those troopers don't use explosive round much, especially gunnery. But they use that boltstorm all the time. Boltstorm is both cheaper and hits harder. Why don't we nerf damage on boltstorm so it's better to use two explosive rounds instead of a bolt storm, if you have the energy for it? That would make explosive round much more valuable!

 

Because it's the signature move. And the signature move for sorc healer is innervate. It's okay if unproced explosive round and dark heal are bad, but it's not ok if boltstorm and innervate are bad.

That's silly. First, DPS classes have more skills to choose from than healers.

 

Second, Dark Infusion is a skill unique to this spec (unlike Explosive Round). So sure, let's give every DPS spec at least one skill unique to them they won't use!

 

Third and this is the most important aspect: According to you, a Vortex Bolt / Priming Shot must deal more damage than a Demolition Round / Heatseeker Missile because it takes longer to cool down.

 

However, my point of view is that it's more important to keep all the skills in question valuable. In case of damage dealers, it doesn't necessarily include all the skills (although a more reasonable damage wouldn't hurt either). But to make 2 out of 7 heals useless, is just plain stupid.

 

And if you care that much about the cooldown, there's a simple way to change that as well:

 

Innervate: 70 force cost | 0s cooldown

Dark Heal: 40 force cost | 6s cooldown (more HPS than Innervate)

Dark Infusion: 60 force cost | 9s cooldown (more HPS than Dark Heal)

 

And it would actually make sense since Sorcerers are currently the only healer spec that don't have a cooldown on either the 1.5s or the 2.5s skill. A Merc's Advanced Medical Probe has a 12s CD and Kolto Probe a 9s CD.

 

And an Innervate without cooldown would be like a Diagnostic Scan, except that it would be more potent and would consume more 'energy'.

 

The advantage:

Innervate could still be used whenever it's currently used, but both Dark Heal and Dark Infusion would be valuable again.

And it would be simple to let a different skill generate Force Surge stacks, if that's considered a problem.

____

 

But that's not the only possibility:

And here, I can only repeat myself and point to the Force Mobility utility. What if this utility would make Dark Heal usable on the move instead of Innervate, just like the Sniper's Hot Pursuit / Calculated Pursuit makes the Charged Bursts / Snipe usuable on the move?

 

Such a simple change and suddenly a Dark Heal becomes way more appealing. In addition, it would remove the mobility advantages a Sorcerer has over the other 2 specs.

 

And like I already stated in previous replies, I would have had no problem - no I would have actually appreciated it - if the devs would have made Boltstorm / Full Auto a skill without a cooldown and would have made the Grav Rounds / Charged Bolts the one with a cooldown instead.

 

Hail of Bolts - basically the AoE variant of Full Auto - can be used successively, so why has the single target variant a cooldown? How stupid is that? If this class ought to be an Assault Cannon class, support this theme, let players use their toy and make the channeling skill available all the time.

 

Besides, a free dark heal every 10 seconds is one in seven GCDs or so. Hardly a very limited use. But we don't see one every 10 seconds, but more like one every 12 seconds. Why? Because revivification.

Show me the Dark Heal every 12s in this parse. Or tell me how this parse could have been better if it would included more Dark Heals or Dark Infusions.

 

One easy way to make dark infusions more valuable is thus to remove revivification from the list on dark concentration.

That's nonsense. It would mean noone will see an instant cast Dark Heal either.

 

2. The high chance of criting on innervate without force bending, meaning you won't need to use force bending for that but can instead use it to lower force cost 30% on revivification, or for instant bounce on roaming mend. So if you have continuous raid wide damage, you can get cheap revivfication, bouncing mends, and free dark heals.

That's quite a silly explanation. You can use Resurgence three times per 18s. So there are more than enough Force Bending stacks to make Roaming Mend jump over instantly. And if you use a stack to lower the cost of Revivification, you saved yourself 20~22 force points at the cost of a ~20% higher HPS for Innervate, ie. approx. 4.6k per use. And in most cases, you would still have one stack left. So judge by yourself whether foregoing 4.6k damage outbalances the force cost you've saved.

 

Roaming mend surely needs a nerf. As it's stated I feel it's a bit agressive on the damage nerf. I'd prefer to keep the 5% bonus on secrets of the dark side, but make it lower the cost less (either not at all or only by 5 force). Also, prevent double tap - if there's no third target to bounce to, the remaining charges are wasted, just as with other similar skills.

Why would they want to prevent the 'double tap', if they nerf the skill the way they do. It will deal approx. 11k per jump, i.e. 22k in case of a double tap. A Progressive Scan heals the first target by approx. ~24k, but must be channeled a bit longer. And Innervate will probably restore 27k on a single target, but it must be channeled even longer than a Progressive Scan (unless you use Polarity Shift).

 

And I don't want to argue whether the removal of the +5% bonus via 'Secrets of the Dark Side' was necessary or not, but to lower the force cost for Roaming Mend takes into consideration that it's a 1 GCD skill (unlike Innervate) and doesn't affect as many targets as Revivification.

Edited July 14, 2017 by realleaftea

[CARNAGE_FU]

How to destroy a class with one patch? Ask the experts...A.K.A BioWare

[adayamothrawn]

Is it worth it to switch from lightning to corruption?

I'm very frustrated with lightning atm and was wondering whether corruption would be more viable for ops - even with the nerf!?

[VirtualMorrigan]

Is it worth it to switch from lightning to corruption?

I'm very frustrated with lightning atm and was wondering whether corruption would be more viable for ops - even with the nerf!?

 

No. Sorcs are ****ed.

[CARNAGE_FU]

Is it worth it to switch from lightning to corruption?

I'm very frustrated with lightning atm and was wondering whether corruption would be more viable for ops - even with the nerf!?

 

No, a K’lor’slug on Korriban is more useful than a corruption inquisitor now.

[HeBecTyJlKa]

Just keep in mind that in any Operation, you will be the healer with lesser HPS numbers (if you play at the same skill level as the other healer/s) and will be considered as "being carried" rather than "carrying the team" healing-wise If that's okay with you, reset to Corruption! Yeah, you might find some fun in playing the class nowadays.. let me know if you do! Edited July 12, 2017 by HeBecTyJlKa

[Jake_Chambers]

Corruption was broken op and easy af to play since 3.0. The spec still has good instant burst and a host of other tools as well as being much easier to play than op or merc (kolto probes and heat management eek). Honestly... people need to suck it up. It was way too easy to get good numbers on a sorc and now the output matches effort put in imo

[Elusive_Thing]

Corruption was broken op and easy af to play since 3.0. The spec still has good instant burst and a host of other tools as well as being much easier to play than op or merc (kolto probes and heat management eek). Honestly... people need to suck it up. It was way too easy to get good numbers on a sorc and now the output matches effort put in imo

Not to mention that all healing specs have the same target HPS, so it is very likely that the hammer is going to come down on the other two as well.

[Chelz]

I can deal with the major force regen issue now. I could also deal with them taking away our Aoe's, what I can't deal with, and what makes the class useless now in PvE, is the major nerf to our burst healing. We don't have HOT's. We Can't AoE. What would you like us to do now? You can't take away everything and expect us to be viable in even an SM raid. At this point a comp could heal better.

 

In full 248's I feel like I am healing naked. I have a Scoundrel/ Op healer in 224's that are better healers at this point. I am going to have to raid with them, which I think is what they wanted us to do.