Why Do Female Characters Have Such Revealing Clothes?

[Ralei]

Science suggests otherwise. I could link you an official study, but you'd probably not read it as it's long, and it may not be appropriate to link on the forums either way. But that aside, it isn't hard to guess why a lot of things that cater to men don't cater to women as much as it does to men.

Certain industries make a whole lot of money because of how visual men are. While they make money off of women too men, almost double that amount. While men like seeing things directly, women like certain context applied to what they're seeing. This doesn't mean that exceptions don't exist.

 

Just like Ronda Rousay can curb a whole lot of guys, but against equally trained men she wouldn't stand a chance in hell.

 

 

 

 

What she's trying to say isn't that women don't like seeing men, it's that men are more "triggered" by what they see than women are. She isn't incorrect.

I also don't see why seeing a few people on Facebook counts as serious evidence.

 

And I could link studies that show the opposite, usually involving actual scientific measurements instead of self reporting. Plus, I'm also a woman, and I know what I like.

 

Saying "women aren't as visual as men" is an over simplification of an extremely complex topic that ignore hundreds if not thousands of years of societal controls and is mostly used as a convenient reason to explain away or ignore women's desires while at the same time excusing prejudiced behavior.

 

I know this is sort of off topic, but I can never let an uninformed opinion go unpunished Especially when it comes to getting more male eye candy in my favorite game.

 

I mean, just the front page of this forum alone should call into question that women aren't visual. I'm sure if Quinn or Scourge were drawn to look like Baras, we'd see thousands of pages of Quinnmancing and romance requests

[Eshvara]

And I could link studies that show the opposite, usually involving actual scientific measurements instead of self reporting. Plus, I'm also a woman, and I know what I like.

 

Saying "women aren't as visual as men" is an over simplification of an extremely complex topic that ignore hundreds if not thousands of years of societal controls and is mostly used as a convenient reason to explain away or ignore women's desires while at the same time excusing prejudiced behavior.

 

I know this is sort of off topic, but I can never let an uninformed opinion go unpunished Especially when it comes to getting more male eye candy in my favorite game.

 

I mean, just the front page of this forum alone should call into question that women aren't visual. I'm sure if Quinn or Scourge were drawn to look like Baras, we'd see thousands of pages of Quinnmancing and romance requests

 

What do you mean by self reporting? It's an actual large study on an official goverment site. It isn't exactly made up. Nobody says women don't like attractive men and don't have desires. But men are just more visual by fact. If you actually have a study that proves the opposite from an official site i'd like to see it and read it.

If I'm actually wrong, I'm not going to keep defending a claim that has been proven incorrect by fact.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Eshvara

[Ylliarus]

I mean, just the front page of this forum alone should call into question that women aren't visual. I'm sure if Quinn or Scourge were drawn to look like Baras, we'd see thousands of pages of Quinnmancing and romance requests

 

Oi, don't shame Baras! I am sure he has a big personality... I mean there is a lot of space for it, isn't there? I do get what you say though, yet I still want a male Warrior and Quinn romance, I really, really miss that and think it is a missed opportunity.

[mmmbuddah]

Absolutely nothing of course ^_^ but I'd be nice to be able to choose when you show what you're working with and when not with the same outfit that is. I know there are plenty of non-revealing sets but I'd like for that to be also the case for the Feral Visionary and Ottegan Force Expert sets

 

Yeah some of the gear you get from questing is suddenly a crop top for us when you equip it. Two versions would be nice.

[Damask_Rose]

What she's trying to say isn't that women don't like seeing men, it's that men are more "triggered" by what they see than women are. She isn't incorrect.

I also don't see why seeing a few people on Facebook counts as serious evidence.

 

My issue with his platitude is that it is binary thinking and men and women's responses to stimuli are not binary. He was implying that it's ok to have a double standard because "biology". My response was not intended to be "serious evidence" but anecdotal. Women in a comfortable environment tend to be far more visual than historically given credit for and marketers are cottening onto that. Just because men tend to enjoy cheese cake more than women enjoy beef cake doesn't mean you should only serve cheese cake. (And dont forget, quite a few men also like their beefcake!)

 

Luckily Bioware realized their magically shrinking clothes were off-putting to a significant portion of their player base and changed their design philosophy. New designs are universally revealing or not. Unfortunately when they reskin old armor the new versions retain the old gender bias no matter how beautiful the details are that get cut away and no matter how stupid cropped tanks with massive shoulerpads and hoods look. We wouldn't have gotten to this level of parity if people didn't complain, and perhaps if we continue to complain Bioware will release full versions of some of those great armors for females.

 

And it is rather amusing the number of people who think wanting equal access to revealing/non-revealing armor is the same as wanting all revealing armor to be removed

[Ylliarus]

Yeah some of the gear you get from questing is suddenly a crop top for us when you equip it. Two versions would be nice.

 

It's definitely not bad looking gear, I definitely can see situations where the crop top works and fits in perfectly. But indeed, two versions aka choice diversity would be the best way to go. Bioware would cater to both the ones wanting the revealing set and those who don't. If anything it would be a perfect move to make some money by releasing such versions on the Cartel Market, but preferably they'd just include them into drops and mission rewards, or even that Adaptive Gear vendor on the fleet.

[Ylliarus]

My issue with his platitude is that it is binary thinking and men and women's responses to stimuli are not binary. He was implying that it's ok to have a double standard because "biology". My response was not intended to be "serious evidence" but anecdotal. Women in a comfortable environment tend to be far more visual than historically given credit for and marketers are cottening onto that. Just because men tend to enjoy cheese cake more than women enjoy beef cake doesn't mean you should only serve cheese cake. (And dont forget, quite a few men also like their beefcake!)

 

Luckily Bioware realized their magically shrinking clothes were off-putting to a significant portion of their player base and changed their design philosophy. New designs are universally revealing or not. Unfortunately when they reskin old armor the new versions retain the old gender bias no matter how beautiful the details are that get cut away and no matter how stupid cropped tanks with massive shoulerpads and hoods look. We wouldn't have gotten to this level of parity if people didn't complain, and perhaps if we continue to complain Bioware will release full versions of some of those great armors for females.

 

And it is rather amusing the number of people who think wanting equal access to revealing/non-revealing armor is the same as wanting all revealing armor to be removed

 

You deserve a medal for this post as you phrase my thoughts perfectly ( I should have written my OP differently I think). I honestly have little more to add if anything at all because what you wrote is exactly my issue. I have no problem with revealing sets, I just would love to see some specific sets that were made during the "sexy croptop phase" Bioware went through to also have a normal unrevealing look. The big shoulderpads for example look silly with the croptop in my personal opinion and I am glad to see you wrote exactly that because it means I am not the only one thinking that.

 

And exactly that... I have no idea how "i want there to be two versions of this outfit, one revealing and one unrevealing" translated into "I want all unrevealing armor sets gone". I never said that in my OP XD

[Eshvara]

My issue with his platitude is that it is binary thinking and men and women's responses to stimuli are not binary. He was implying that it's ok to have a double standard because "biology". My response was not intended to be "serious evidence" but anecdotal. Women in a comfortable environment tend to be far more visual than historically given credit for and marketers are cottening onto that. Just because men tend to enjoy cheese cake more than women enjoy beef cake doesn't mean you should only serve cheese cake. (And dont forget, quite a few men also like their beefcake!)

 

Luckily Bioware realized their magically shrinking clothes were off-putting to a significant portion of their player base and changed their design philosophy. New designs are universally revealing or not. Unfortunately when they reskin old armor the new versions retain the old gender bias no matter how beautiful the details are that get cut away and no matter how stupid cropped tanks with massive shoulerpads and hoods look. We wouldn't have gotten to this level of parity if people didn't complain, and perhaps if we continue to complain Bioware will release full versions of some of those great armors for females.

 

And it is rather amusing the number of people who think wanting equal access to revealing/non-revealing armor is the same as wanting all revealing armor to be removed

 

It isn't unheard of. That aside, Bioware has been rather progressive and they haven't really been unfair with the amount of new revealing skins. I understand that going back and changing everything is not worth it. "which was I think the topic of the thread" Unless I'm completely wrong. Anything can happen.

[Ylliarus]

It isn't unheard of. That aside, Bioware has been rather progressive and they haven't really been unfair with the amount of new revealing skins. I understand that going back and changing everything is not worth it. "which was I think the topic of the thread" Unless I'm completely wrong. Anything can happen.

 

Well, maybe not entirely go back and reskin them, but for example at least release one, for example the Darth Baras set with that mask made available in the Adaptive Gear vendor on the Imperial fleet. That way they don't need to reskin everything but merely add one gearset to one vendor and have it so that when female toons equip it, it won't be revealing but have the same design as the male version has. That would be a very doable solution I think, one that doesn't require a lot of effort AND we get new items in the Adaptive Gear vendor which is always a great thing I think :3

[Kolskeggur]

To clarify: I never meant this in a sexist/misogynistic way. I meant it in the same way that you don't see the head of a state wearing a tanktop, either male or female, or other revealing clothing when representing their office. People in power should have a serious appearance when acting in the capacity of that office, that was the ONLY way I meant it in. Otherwise, I completely have no problem with a Sith Lord walking around in a revealing armor set, be it female or male, inclusiveness and equality for all. Heck, when on Belsavis I had my female Sith Inq wear the original Jaesa-style set. All I am asking for is diversity in choice.

 

EDIT: If for example Darth Marr or Mortis walked in with the revealing spikey-armour set, showing off their sixpack in the Dark Council chamber, I'd very much hope the other Dark Council members would blast them as well. I really don't care if it's males or females wearing revealing sets in the Dark Council chambers, I personally, with the reasoning I wrote down above, don't find that appropriate for people in power. But again, that is not the point of this thread, the point of this thread is more choice for player appearance.

 

Quite weird stance to take. The Dark Council is about one thing alone: power. If you were powerful enough to be granted a seat on the Dark Council, they don't give a fig how you dress. Insanity haven't stopped anyone from rising high in the Empire. Obviously, some of the more prude councilors may have personal opinions, and the more paranoid would be out of their mind trying to figure out what you gain by flaunting yourself, but at the end of the day they only care how powerful you are. After all, the Dark Council is ripe with infighting, power ploys and political maneuvering.

 

Trying to apply the standards of IRL leaders on the leaders of the Empire seems pretty silly.

[Ylliarus]

Quite weird stance to take. The Dark Council is about one thing alone: power. If you were powerful enough to be granted a seat on the Dark Council, they don't give a fig how you dress. Insanity haven't stopped anyone from rising high in the Empire. Obviously, some of the more prude councilors may have personal opinions, and the more paranoid would be out of their mind trying to figure out what you gain by flaunting yourself, but at the end of the day they only care how powerful you are. After all, the Dark Council is ripe with infighting, power ploys and political maneuvering.

 

Trying to apply the standards of IRL leaders on the leaders of the Empire seems pretty silly.

 

It was only an example of what I personally find, I don't say this has to be the case for everyone. I just want to highlight that there are players that would like to have unrevealing sets or versions of that specific armor set I mentioned, the Ottegan Force Expert and Feral Visionary sets. That example with the Dark Council was nothing more than that, an example of my personal view on the matter. The point and subject of this thread is that I'd like to see and inspire more choice diversity regarding player sets, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Also, we compare stuff with what we know. We know the real world so naturally we compare our world with that of a fictional one. It's not that silly if you think of it that way. There are a lot of parallels between IRL and the Star Wars universe so it's not that far of stretch to apply what we know to the fiction universe. After all, that fictional universe is based on our own.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Kolskeggur]

It was only an example of what I personally find, I don't say this has to be the case for everyone. I just want to highlight that there are players that would like to have unrevealing sets or versions of that specific armor set I mentioned, the Ottegan Force Expert and Feral Visionary sets. That example with the Dark Council was nothing more than that, an example of my personal view on the matter. The point and subject of this thread is that I'd like to see and inspire more choice diversity regarding player sets, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Also, we compare stuff with what we know. We know the real world so naturally we compare our world with that of a fictional one. It's not that silly if you think of it that way. There are a lot of parallels between IRL and the Star Wars universe so it's not that far of stretch to apply what we know to the fiction universe. After all, that fictional universe is based on our own.

 

If you were to compare the Sith Empire to any real world equivalent you would probably have to go by Tacitus and Suetonius descriptions of the Roman Empire, where such things as skimpy clothes hardly mattered much and several Emperors by description even were outright mad or degenerate in their interests and behaviour, though. And that doesn't even have the Sith code and the cult around that as an explanation to why skimpy clothing wouldn't matter at all - after all, the Sith do propose using Passion, no?

[Ylliarus]

If you were to compare the Sith Empire to any real world equivalent you would probably have to go by Tacitus and Suetonius descriptions of the Roman Empire, where such things as skimpy clothes hardly mattered much and several Emperors by description even were outright mad or degenerate in their interests and behaviour, though. And that doesn't even have the Sith code and the cult around that as an explanation to why skimpy clothing wouldn't matter at all - after all, the Sith do propose using Passion, no?

 

I agree with what you say but you're missing the point of what I'm trying to raise attention towards. I am not trying to compare the Sith Empire to IRL concepts, I am trying to highlight that in my opinion, and from what I saw in this thread also in that of others, there could be more choice diversity regarding choosing to have revealing armour sets and unrevealing armour sets. I merely used an IRL thing as an example to try to explain my point of view.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Ylliarus

[dead-cat]

If you were powerful enough to be granted a seat on the Dark Council, they don't give a fig how you dress. Insanity haven't stopped anyone from rising high in the Empire.

Yet, if you wore Karagga's Unyielding Helm, i am sure Marr and the Council would take offence and do something about it. And rightfully so.

[Ylliarus]

Yet, if you wore Karagga's Unyielding Helm, i am sure Marr and the Council would take offence and do something about it. And rightfully so.

 

Immersion wise, I'd very much hope so XD Unless it's "Crazy Hat Day" of course, that is the only exception

[Kolskeggur]

I agree with what you say but you're missing the point of what I'm trying to raise attention towards. I am not trying to compare the Sith Empire to IRL concepts, I am trying to highlight that in my opinion, and from what I saw in this thread also in that of others, there could be more choice diversity regarding choosing to have revealing armour sets and unrevealing armour sets. I merely used an IRL thing as an example to try to explain my point of view.

 

Oh no, I get the issue you're trying to raise, I just don't have an opinion on that. But I had a lil issue with the way you tried to argue about it there.

 

Yet, if you wore Karagga's Unyielding Helm, i am sure Marr and the Council would take offence and do something about it. And rightfully so.

 

Would they? I don't see why they would object to another Sith flaunting a battle trophy - they would more likely ignore it and believe it to be that persons' concern.

[Ylliarus]

Oh no, I get the issue you're trying to raise, I just don't have an opinion on that. But I had a lil issue with the way you tried to argue about it there.

 

Oh no I do realise that our world and the fictional world of star wars are two seperate universes with each their own rules and customs. I will admit that my example wasn't the best one as indeed every Sith Lord on the Dark Council is there for another reason than their clothing. I realise I should have used a different example if not phrased it differently, but the point still remains the same

Edited June 16, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Aeneas_Falco]

Quite weird stance to take. The Dark Council is about one thing alone: power. If you were powerful enough to be granted a seat on the Dark Council, they don't give a fig how you dress. Insanity haven't stopped anyone from rising high in the Empire. Obviously, some of the more prude councilors may have personal opinions, and the more paranoid would be out of their mind trying to figure out what you gain by flaunting yourself, but at the end of the day they only care how powerful you are. After all, the Dark Council is ripe with infighting, power ploys and political maneuvering.

 

Trying to apply the standards of IRL leaders on the leaders of the Empire seems pretty silly.

 

It is established canon at any rate that many force users, regardless of alignment, wear little to no armor. All the Jedi from the films wear robes, as do Palpatine and Darth Maul. Count Dooku does not wear armor either, instead opting for a suit and cape. The Force is all the armor they needed. At least one Jedi (Aayla Secura) was not only unarmored but also scantily clad.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Aeneas_Falco

[Ylliarus]

It is established canon at any rate that many force users, regardless of alignment, wear little to no armor. All the Jedi from the films wear robes, as do Palpatine and Darth Maul. Count Dooku does not wear armor either, instead opting for a suit and cape. The Force is all the armor they needed. At least one Jedi (Aayla Secura) was not only unarmored but also scantily clad.

 

I get that, of course, but there are also those who did. From Legends I have a lot of example, like Darth Malgus, Warb Null, King Adas, Tulak Hord among others. So basically it comes back to the point of having choice diversity.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Ylliarus]

What could work is a t shirt slot like WoW has. There's so many different colours of t-shirts, so there will be at least one that matches! I always found it nice as WoW has some armors that's cropped as well, and I didn't always find it suitable.

 

I am not sure how they would add it to the game, but I do recognise this could be an amazing solution. It would be interesting to see especially if you could also dye it, you could create amazing sets with such an option. Interesting suggestion definitely, but it would require a huge redo of the character sheet thingy ingame or at least the outfit designer.

[denavin]

Personally I feel that there are not enough revealing outfits for females in the game.

 

There needs to be more of them and they need to be even more revealing.

 

My girls have great curves and want to show them to all.

 

Besides robes and armor are too restrictive for Melee battle. I can be much more acrobatic and fluid without all that flowing cloth wrapping its self around my body and arms slowing down my actions and fouling my Light Saber or heavy hard un-moving plates of armor.

 

The Force is my Armor.

 

Let my enemy's get lost looking at the curves of my buxom body, the distraction will allow me to catch them unaware, as I beat them to death.

 

My body is a weapon, best wielded.... BARE!

[WelbyWars]

 

My body is a weapon, best wielded.... BARE!

 

Dude,...

 

 

 

.

[MandFlurry]

I can definitely guess, doesn't mean I agree with it which makes me therefore wonder why there couldn't have been two versions of it.

 

Money, and putting resources in better areas of the Game, none of you are forced, ever, to wear revealing clothes. You can wear armor. Us Men don't like everything either, but we learn to more, shall i say deal with it better, and not call it sexist, as the OP is alluding to. A lot of Guys that are straight would like to have more revealing things, though some guy make fune of them for it, which isn't right.

 

Me, I love Bulky/ Buff armor myself.

Edited June 16, 2017 by MandFlurry

[Ylliarus]

Money, and putting resources in better areas of the Game, none of you are forced, ever, to wear revealing clothes. You can wear armor. Us Men don't like everything either, but we learn to more, shall i say deal with it better, and not call it sexist, as the OP is alluding to. A lot of Guys that are straight would like to have more revealing things, though some guy make fune of them for it, which isn't right.

 

Me, I love Bulky/ Buff armor myself.

 

For the record I am male although not straight but that's kinda irrelevant in this issue. Of course I understand we don't have to wear revealing armor sets on our female toons, it's just that I'd like to have the opportunity to wear the Feral Visionary set for example and have the ability to wear it in a unrevealing design as well. That really is all I am asking, but if I want to wear Feral Visionary or Ottegan Force Expert on a female toon now I only can have it in a revealing design. "Then don't wear it" people will say, but that is the point. I would like to have the ability to wear it and be completely content about the design of the outfit and not to have to settle for less or completely not wear it.

[MandFlurry]

Everyone has a 'set' mind of what stuff they want to wear, the thing i bring up, and i understand what your talking about. Is the fact too much money and other resources go into the Cartel Market, which most of us hate. People will always end up seeing in any world chat almost about the Complaints of the Cartel Market getting more resources from their point of view and some of mine, which can't be well proven. But the Community does see the Cartel Market getting, in my eyes too much time with resources that i think should be spent elsewhere.

 

Just my view.