Iokath - Lana

[Zemblanity]

Just wanted to share something...

 

That moment you begin to awaken after sitting on the throne, when your vision is still blurry and there's a hint of a smile on Lana's face? You can't quite be sure, because once your eyes focus, she's back to her normal, unreadable self, but it touched me. So, umm, whoever did that scene, well done!

 

 

[Estelindis]

I'm glad you liked it. I can give credit to the animator(s) for the little change of expression - it was well-executed at a technical level.

 

Personally, though, I think that the scene on Iokath could've been more reactive. It seems like Lana is the one your character wakes up to, regardless of relationship status. So, from that point of view, I find the little smile she gives to be either meaningless or a bit creepy.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to dampen your buzz. Lana is just not a character I really like. After all this time, I feel like we still understand almost nothing of her background and what matters most to her (apart from the main character). Every time the game tries to make my character feel some closeness to her, I feel repelled instead.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Estelindis

[SithKoriandr]

I'm glad you liked it. I can give credit to the animator(s) for the little change of expression - it was well-executed at a technical level.

 

Personally, though, I think that the scene on Iokath could've been more reactive. It seems like Lana is the one your character wakes up to, regardless of relationship status. So, from that point of view, I find the little smile she gives to be either meaningless or a bit creepy.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to dampen your buzz. Lana is just not a character I really like. After all this time, I feel like we still understand almost nothing of her background and what matters most to her (apart from the main character). Every time the game tries to make my character feel some closeness to her, I feel repelled instead.

 

Unless one is totally mean to Lana, I can't see why Lana wouldn't smile at the PC, because there's still a friendship there, regardless of LI status, again, unless the player is totally mean to her at every given chance, but by that time, I would wonder why she's even still with you

[Ralei]

Agreed, Lana is a total creep.

[Estelindis]

Unless one is totally mean to Lana, I can't see why Lana wouldn't smile at the PC, because there's still a friendship there, regardless of LI status, again, unless the player is totally mean to her at every given chance, but by that time, I would wonder why she's even still with you

My character is never mean to Lana. But she also almost never does what Lana wants, because they have very different world-views. Lana feels some sort of intense loyalty to my character and has inserted herself in the role of right-hand woman, but I don't think they actually have some kind of personal bond. I mean... Lana feels intense loyalty to every main character, seemingly regardless of how they behave - that's why I find it somewhat meaningless. And the creepy part comes because other LI characters should take her place in this part of the cutscene. (Not that my char's LI was available, but this criticism would apply in many others' cases.)

 

And yeah, I would wonder why Lana would still be with a character who's awful to her at every opportunity. But she is, because Bioware need writing hooks (which is fine), so her main character trait is now apparently loyalty to the player character (which is less fine; I'd like something more interesting from her). Theron is there no matter what too, but I find that more understandable because I think he's written better.

 

I dunno - maybe Lana is actually intended to come across as obsessively devoted to a worrying degree, in which case the writing is a complete success.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Estelindis

[Zemblanity]

(...) maybe Lana is actually intended to come across as obsessively devoted to a worrying degree, in which case the writing is a complete success.

 

 

That's how I see her too, given the way she tracked the Outlander down for 5 years without knowing what she'd find. Everyone else gave up - including your LI - and while Lana was probably hoping said Outlander was either the player or Darth Marr, it might as well have been just an ordinary helmsman who got patsied for Arcann's powergrab. It was an incredible gamble, and it paid off.

 

At this point, she's basically Shepard's Miranda on steroids, and I can't see Beniko doing anything other than devoting herself to the Outlander, even though she'd never admit it. Whether the player actually agrees with her actions is another matter. Who knows, maybe even she had something to do with the missing force-sensitive LI's as well, either due to some weird form of repressed jealousy or just to keep the player from being too influenced by the Jedi/Sith code.

 

Anyway, I liked that hint of a smile. I'm warming up to Lana

 

[Estelindis]

That's how I see her too, given the way she tracked the Outlander down for 5 years without knowing what she'd find. Everyone else gave up - including your LI - and while Lana was probably hoping said Outlander was either the player or Darth Marr, it might as well have been just an ordinary helmsman who got patsied for Arcann's powergrab. It was an incredible gamble, and it paid off.

 

At this point, she's basically Shepard's Miranda on steroids, and I can't see Beniko doing anything other than devoting herself to the Outlander, even though she'd never admit it. Whether the player actually agrees with her actions is another matter. Who knows, maybe even she had something to do with the missing force-sensitive LI's as well, either due to some weird form of repressed jealousy or just to keep the player from being too influenced by the Jedi/Sith code.

 

Anyway, I liked that hint of a smile. I'm warming up to Lana

 

It's interesting that a lot of the things that appeal to you about Lana actively put me off her. This is possibly true more at a meta level, in terms of the writing decisions about Lana, rather than concerning Lana "in her own right." (Arguably characters can't be separated from writing decisions about them, but I think they can to a certain degree.) I dislike that Lana is written as more persistent about the main character than many of the LIs. (It's not fair to say all of the LIs, because some of them literally aren't free to continue searching, like Quinn.) It's clearly a choice for game design efficiency, not for what best fits all the characters. Bioware just didn't have the resources to make the character who rescues the PC be a bunch of different people depending on circumstance. That's understandable. But I don't have to like it!

 

In-universe, it just doesn't make sense that Lana, who we may have disagreed with from the first time we met, whose decisions we may have always opposed, who might be from the opposite faction and working towards completely different ends than the main character, would be more devoted than their husand or wife who has been with them through thick and thin for years.

 

In terms of the Mass Effect comparison, you're right, but I find Lana to be more like some Miranda-Liara hybrid. And I didn't like how, if someone else is your LI, Miri and Liara get more story attention and seem to be more "devoted" than the actual LI. It soured me very much on Liara especially. She knows Shepard's real status for years and doesn't tell Ashley or Kaidan, just leaving them to grieve alone. She's written as more central to the plot whether she's your LI or not, which really goes against a satisfying story structure.

 

Seems like I have a tendency not to fall for Bioware's writing darlings who they pin all the plot on... Honestly, I don't mind that Bioware need some characters to play a certain story role, but if they give us a choice in terms of who our characters love and are close to, it then feels artificial if a different character is forced into a more central role in the story.

 

Anyway, maybe you're right and Lana has something to do with the force-user LIs being missing. But I personally doubt it. It would be a very interesting development, and I would respect them for writing such a thing. However, it would be unrealistic for the player character to not have an option to take revenge on Lana if they found out - even to the point of killing her, since we have options to kill people for far smaller infractions - and then Bioware wouldn't be able to reliably use her for plot, which seems to be her main purpose at this point.

 

I'm glad that you like Lana. I'm glad that everyone who likes her gets enjoyment from her moments in the spotlight. But, at least they way she's written up to this point, she's not interesting to me.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Estelindis

[casirabit]

If you are into Lana then yea but I would have much more prefer Koth or Theran be there instead. My republic characters have very little in common with Lana as they do the direct opposite that she suggests. I understand that some think Lana is great and like this but some of us just don't like it and would prefer someone else there instead.

[Zemblanity]

Honestly, I don't mind that Bioware need some characters to play a certain story role, but if they give us a choice in terms of who our characters love and are close to, it then feels artificial if a different character is forced into a more central role in the story.

 

 

I guess it's a matter of perspective and selective suspension of disbelief on my part. To me, the whole Lana thing was never romantic. It was about loyalty, the likes of which no one had ever shown him, whether that meant his absent family, his master, his emperor, his second-in-command, his apprentice, or even his sassy twi'lek lover. IMO, Lana isn't so much forced into a central role in the story as she's caught by the maelstrom that is the player. Almost every important event in the galaxy in the last 10 years was directly shaped by the player, limited, of course, by Bioware's dialogue wheel and development constraints, and Lana alone was wise enough to recognize it. No wonder she never leaves your side!

 

I want the old companions back as much as anyone, but consider whom the player, sitting on the most powerful throne in the galaxy, would want as an advisor. Theron and Lana fit that role perfectly, both experienced spies hailing from the Alliance's current political rivals, the Empire and the Republic, who often have conflicting, though equally valid points-of-view. I definitely want those two around!

 

Anyway, this wasn't supposed to turn into a pro-Lana or pro-Theron thing. It was incidental that it involved Lana, just meant to show appreciation to a minor detail from the animators

 

[Estelindis]

Anyway, this wasn't supposed to turn into a pro-Lana or pro-Theron thing. It was incidental that it involved Lana, just meant to show appreciation to a minor detail from the animators

 

It is totally on me for hijacking your topic!

 

I appreciate your point about Lana recognizing the player character's importance. The thing is, it feels a bit like ego-stroking on the part of the writers. Yes, look, we are so special, etc. But the main character can be very different depending on background and story choices, to the point where someone loyal to them no matter all these differences is just a bit strange. And, in fairness, this point isn't at all confined to Lana - she is just the most extreme example.

 

But different strokes for different folks! By all means, continuing liking Lana.

[Asmodesu]

Yes! I like these little things. They've done this before with Lana actually. In SoR, the final chat with her and Theron on Manaan.

 

 

If your character flirts with Theron there, bringing up that they absolutely know he's got a crush on them. Theron denies it, badly, and the droid comments that he is blushing. If you glance past Theron and focus on Lana during that moment he starts saying his line "we're gonna.. Jakarro me and the droid--" Lana smirks while glancing at Theron. It barely lasts a second, but it is there before she's back to usual reserved neutral facial expression. The animation doesn't look great though, it's in the background and does not last long so easy to miss.