Flashpoints - A Guide for New Players

[DexonCreel]

Excellent guide - I forwarded to a few friends and wish there was a way to forward to some ingame folks who shall remain nameless (and most likely groupless...)

 

Target's target also does not function for me. Maybe someday!

[VonAryan]

Great thread, I think I learned more in an hour of reading, than I ever did in 6 years of SWG...(I'm mostly a solo player) I'm looking forward to figuring out what kind of class I'm supposed to be, and getting into some group missions. Thank you for an informative guide and discussion.!

[Damagegoods]

Can someone explain what Need and Greed actually does?

 

NEED: is if you need it for your toon

GREED: Is if you want it to sell or make money of it.

[SintaxOI]

Thank you for the great write up.

 

As an experienced MMO player I even found this useful, but more importantly I've linked this to a few guildies who are new to the entire genre. I'm sure they'll find it useful.

 

+1

[Chrismilk]

So is doing too little damage as a DPS bad?

 

How do I tell if a DPS is doing a bad job, other than threat?

 

(new to MMO's)

[spoe]

So is doing too little damage as a DPS bad?

 

How do I tell if a DPS is doing a bad job, other than threat?

 

(new to MMO's)

 

That's a good question. Without an in-game way of actually measuring someone's dps, there's no real way to tell if you are doing optimal dps or not. I'm not so sure, however, that an individual's damage output is the best way to measure group play; I think it falls down to one question: are the bosses going down? If they are, then the group is fine. If they are not, then something is wrong, but that something could be any number of things, not just damage.

 

The smart play at this stage is simply to make sure you are current with your gear (using gear that is at least within a few levels of what you currently are) and that your gear is designed for you.

 

For example, if you are a Mercenary bounty hunter dps, but you are stacking mods that have defensive capabilities instead of damage-dealing ones, then you're probably not doing optimal dps.

 

One other thing you can do to help make sure your dps output is beneficial to your groups is to make sure you are prioritizing your abilities properly during your damage rotation. Put your abilities on your quickbar so that the abilities descend from highest damage to lowest damage, and always click the highest damage-dealing abilities as they come off cooldown.

 

That's a bit simplified, really, but it's a place to start. As you gain more experience, you'll learn which abilities may be more appropriate for certain types of fights. And some abilities that might not cause as much damage as others might create a condition that increases the damage potential of another ability. These things can be determined by carefully reading your talents and the tooltips on individual abilities.

 

For example, you might have a damage-over-time ability (a "DoT") that causes your next [insert ability here] to have a +30% increased crit chance. If you determine such through reading about your talents and/or abilities, it makes sense to prioritize the DoT before using the other ability. There are numerous factors that can lead to these kinds of rotational decisions when you are prioritizing attacks, but, as I said, it's nothing that a thorough read of your talents and abilities won't enlighten you on.

 

I would, as a side note, avoid putting single-target and aoe abilities together on the same bar (I use the top row for single-target abilities and the bottom row for aoe abilities) because if there are CC targets nearby and you select an AoE ability, you will break the CC early, which can lead to a wipe.

 

Of course, you also have to learn how to manage your resource -- force, energy, or heat, whichever the case may be depending on your class. You will definitely NOT be doing optimal dps if your play style keeps you at low force or energy all the time (or high heat if you are a bounty hunter). You might come out of the gate with tremendous burst damage, but over the course of a long boss fight, your damage will be low because you'll rarely have the resources to use your highest damage-dealing abilities.

Edited January 23, 2012 by spoe

[spoe]

Great thread, I think I learned more in an hour of reading, than I ever did in 6 years of SWG...(I'm mostly a solo player) I'm looking forward to figuring out what kind of class I'm supposed to be, and getting into some group missions. Thank you for an informative guide and discussion.!

 

Thank you for saying so. I wish I could have expanded a little more on the different roles, but I really did try to keep this guide to the basics. Hopefully someone will take on the challenge of roles and provide the community with an in-depth analysis of the trinity (tank, heal, dps) and how those three roles interconnect in groups. This guide touches on it, but there really is a lot more that could be said.

 

Sounds like a lot of work, but it would be rewarding I'm sure.

[Kben]

So even though it has been said about 50 times already...i must also echo that this is a VERY solid guide and exactly what I was looking for. I casually played some WoW back in the day (like 5-6 years ago) but only played a hunter, shaman and druid (thus...no tank).

 

Now BioWare had to go and bring the Star Wars universe to the MMO and just suck me right back in. I just started about 2 weeks ago and rolled a Jedi Knight. To be honest, I didn't make the choice to play a tank, but because I wanted to be a Jedi Knight (Who the eff doesn't? )

 

But after reading your substantial and excellent post, I'm glad I did. I'm looking forward to fun challenges that becoming a solid tank will present.

 

I do have one question. I did some further investigation and came across a post here called Tanking: A Primer. While I read through and found some interesting things like ability rotations and threat management, there was a ton of calculations and hard data that were deemed "essential". My question is....it is truly ESSENTIAL to understand those concepts to be an effective tank? To be honest, I want to play a video game, not retake my high school algebra class.

 

Seriously though...thanks again for such a great beginners guide. It has made my life much easier. Kudos to you good sir!

Edited January 25, 2012 by Kben

[spoe]

So even though it has been said about 50 times already...i must also echo that this is a VERY solid guide and exactly what I was looking for. I casually played some WoW back in the day (like 5-6 years ago) but only played a hunter, shaman and druid (thus...no tank).

 

Now BioWare had to go and bring the Star Wars universe to the MMO and just suck me right back in. I just started about 2 weeks ago and rolled a Jedi Knight. To be honest, I didn't make the choice to play a tank, but because I wanted to be a Jedi Knight (Who the eff doesn't? )

 

But after reading your substantial and excellent post, I'm glad I did. I'm looking forward to fun challenges that becoming a solid tank will present.

 

I do have one question. I did some further investigation and came across a post here called Tanking: A Primer. While I read through and found some interesting things like ability rotations and threat management, there was a ton of calculations and hard data that were deemed "essential". My question is....it is truly ESSENTIAL to understand those concepts to be an effective tank? To be honest, I want to play a video game, not retake my high school algebra class.

 

Seriously though...thanks again for such a great beginners guide. It has made my life much easier. Kudos to you good sir!

 

Thank you for the kind and very articulate words. I appreciate it, as these kinds of comments keep me coming back to address the questions that pop up as best I can (not that I am an expert by any stretch).

 

As far as the essentiality you mentioned, I suppose that isn't a simple yes or no answer; it really depends on just how in-depth you want to be. I think the theorycrafting and number-crunching and min-maxing definitely have their place in MMO games, as the information those dedicated players come up with always helps others be better players.

 

If you plan to just play the game, run flashpoints with guildies, and do some light ops runs in high-end content, I'd venture to say that you do not have to really dig into all of the super-fine points of tanking (though I still think reading posts like the one you linked is very beneficial for the knowledge alone).

 

It is probably enough to know how to best prioritize your attacks so that you generate as much threat as you can and to know how to properly gear your character to be as defensively strong as possible so that you can dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge your way through flashpoints without stressing your healer too much. Healers love tanks who know enough about tanking that if the healer needs to heal a dps, he knows the tank will be okay for a few seconds (a few seconds can be an eternity, though, when facing an end-game raid boss who hits like a force push from Yoda himself, but in raids, you'll often have dedicated tank healers).

 

If you plan to get into some serious raiding, though (if you plan to start a no-nonsense progression with your guild so you can see all of the high-end content), I definitely recommend closely reading what the theorycrafters and min-maxers have to say about not only taking but also healing and dps.

 

This isn't to say that it is necessarily essential to re-learn algebra (I lol'd at that comment, btw); some guilds will, as some gamers really take their raiding quite seriously because that is where they find the most enjoyment.

 

For the rest of us -- what the hard-core raiders call "casuals" (and no, it isn't a derogatory term) -- It is usually enough to familiarize ourselves with the information they are kind enough to share so that we can gain more insight, which, as I said, only makes us all better players in the complex MMO environments we like to romp around in.

 

The key, however, is to have fun. If you don't want to dig as deeply as some, don't. You can still have a fun and exciting end-game progression if you don't want to immerse yourself in the fine points; the only difference is that you won't master the content as quickly as some, but that's not a big deal either. The bosses will still be there waiting when you do get to them. If you spend a little time reading their research and absorbing some of what they have calculated, it'll only make you a better player. I am always happy to read those in-depth guides from players with the brains to put it all together because I know that every single time I do, I learn something useful that I didn't know before, and it always helps my game.

 

Happy gaming! And thanks again for your wonderful comments.

 

PS: and you mentioned that you read the other post and learned about threat management and rotations; understanding just those concepts alone puts you leaps and bounds above many So even if it seemed like a lot of daunting information, it was still highly beneficial. If that's the sort of things you are getting from reading those kinds of posts, then I'd say you are well on your way to super stardom as a tank.

Edited January 26, 2012 by spoe

[Kben]

I appreciate it, as these kinds of comments keep me coming back to address the questions that pop up as best I can (not that I am an expert by any stretch).

 

Don't sell yourself too short. Simply taking the time to come up with such substantial responses is incredibly helpful. I'm obviously not the only one who has shown their appreciation of your efforts. MMO's in general could use more people like you. I'm fortunate enough to have found a new-ish guild that has people willing to share their knowledge and experiences, but it's obvious from this thread that not everyone can say the same (unfortunately).

 

This isn't to say that it is necessarily essential to re-learn algebra (I lol'd at that comment, btw)

 

Excellent!

 

The key, however, is to have fun.

 

In the end, I'm really glad you made this comment. What's the point if you are not having fun? I'm just going to going into the end-game content as a "casual" raider and see where it goes. If a little nighttime reading is required to progress, then that's what I'll do.

 

Thanks again oh wise one!

[spoe]

Thanks again for the kind words. I think I am due for a bit of nighttime reading myself on the heals forums to see just how bad my Inquisitor is set up right now. lol Edited January 26, 2012 by spoe

[VanDeBeast]

Thank you for a very informative guide, as a person who only had a little experience in MMOs (LOTRO), and no raiding experience, it has been helpful.

 

You mention marks, and I have seen them in game before. My question is where (or what classes) does one gain the ability to place those marks?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Kben]

You mention marks, and I have seen them in game before. My question is where (or what classes) does one gain the ability to place those marks

 

Once you have a target selected, you just right click on their portrait (just to the right of your abilities bar) and the only option will be to set a mark for the target. You then have roughly 6-8 images that you can use for marks.

 

Reiterating what the OP laid out, If you were leading a flashpoint as the tank you decide a mark order (e.g. Flame, Shield, Lightening, etc.) and do that same marking process for each target in the mob you are about to attack.

 

Hope that helps and happy hunting!

[spoe]

Once you have a target selected, you just right click on their portrait (just to the right of your abilities bar) and the only option will be to set a mark for the target. You then have roughly 6-8 images that you can use for marks.

 

Reiterating what the OP laid out, If you were leading a flashpoint as the tank you decide a mark order (e.g. Flame, Shield, Lightening, etc.) and do that same marking process for each target in the mob you are about to attack.

 

Hope that helps and happy hunting!

 

Well said, Kben. The key with marks it to keep them consistent throughout the group so that players do not get confused as to their meaning.

 

For example, if you decide that the lightning bolt icon will be used for the Sorcerer in the group to cc with Whirlwind, use the lightning bolt for that reason for the entire flashpoint; that way, the CCer will always know what to do when that mark shows up

 

Likewise, as Kben said, make sure your "kill first" mark (whichever one you decide it shall be) is always the "kill first" mark.

 

Consistency is the name of the game

 

Always remember, however, that if marks are being used, AOE attacks should not be used -- if someone damages a CC target, the CC will break, likely leading to a wipe. So separate your single-target and aoe abilities to keep from making that mistake

[CoryCarniphex]

If I knew this guide existed before tonight I would have read it and committed it to memory. As a result of my ignorance I feel doubly shamed by not knowing what a loot ninja was and then finding out because of my ignorance of the need/greed buttons that I am now viewed as a loot ninja because of one incredibly stupid and yet God's honest truth- mistake. On top of the many other faux pas I made, I have the reputation in my guild as a theif... I have reviewed this and am now properly informed. I only hope this guide saves countless other n00bs who have not played mmorpgs in the last 10 years from making uber ignorant mistakes. Edited February 4, 2012 by CoryCarniphex

[misterME]

As many others have pointed out, excellent post and great info for new or backslid gamers, and for those like me (and apparently many others) whose MMO experiences are limited to single-player questing due to the typical overwhelming arrogance of experienced players...

 

My only suggestion: There is a ton of useful info contained in the responses by you and other members of this community in this thread, much of which directly relates to your subject. Please edit your original post to include it, rather than leaving it in the comments and responses for readers to happen across. This post has 19 pages of responses (much of it well-deserved accolades); but few of us have the time to sift through 19 pages looking for the good stuff. For me, I gave up after 8 or 9...

 

I know your desire is to keep the original Guide short, sweet, and simple, and I can appreciate that. And I know that some of the useful info provided in the responses on this thread may not fit your original scope precisely. But there is so much important, critical, useful stuff in here, all things that I've found to be a great benefit to my own play, and to others in the groups I've pitched with. Not including it for everyone to see on page 1 seems criminal...

 

But, in the words of a recently evacuated troll, it's your guide, so I won't demand you do anything with it (I think I put it slightly better than he did). But it would be nice to see the good stuff consolidated to the first page.

 

In any case, thanks for your efforts on sharing this info with the community at large, and helping us all be better cooperative gamers in the process...

[Kben]

If I knew this guide existed before tonight I would have read it and committed it to memory. As a result of my ignorance I feel doubly shamed by not knowing what a loot ninja was and then finding out because of my ignorance of the need/greed buttons that I am now viewed as a loot ninja because of one incredibly stupid and yet God's honest truth- mistake. On top of the many other faux pas I made, I have the reputation in my guild as a theif... I have reviewed this and am now properly informed. I only hope this guide saves countless other n00bs who have not played mmorpgs in the last 10 years from making uber ignorant mistakes.

 

It's unfortunate that you had to deal with this situation. I'm no MMO expert, but I played WOW about 6-7 years ago and know some of the basics about "loot etiquette". I find it strange/disappointing that you've been brande unfairly and aren't able to provide an explanation.

 

But when you mix millions of different people with millions of unique personalities, this stuff is just going to happen. I was running the Athiss Flashpoint the other night with two guild members and a random (Commando) who joined us. That Commando was the highest level and the only one who had previously run the FP so he took the lead. One of my guildmates was completely new to MMOs and we had to explain things along the way (Luckily our guild takes the teaching approach). The Commando was incredibly impatient as our guildmate made a few mistakes here and there (no wipes though), but the random guy kept pushing through. Well, we're about 3/4 the way through and get to a boss. Our noob guildmate broke a CC. The Commando went off an ended with "I'm not dealing with this." and bailed. That meant we were completely hosed and just wasted about an hour since we most definitely couldn't complete it with 3.

 

2 days later the 3 of us ran it again with another random (also Commando). I explained our guildmate's playing experience beforehand and he was the exact opposite. Helped in explaining certain situations, and understanding a small mistake here or there. At the end, my guildmate kept talking about how much fun that FP was, and what a difference it made to have a solid plan and work like a team.

 

Now that I've written a small novel...the point I'm trying to make is that while there are those out there who find some strange pleasure in ripping people to shreds, there are also those who are much more interested in helping noobs learn the game and enjoy it that much more. Hopefully you path crosses more of the latter.

[spoe]

If I knew this guide existed before tonight I would have read it and committed it to memory. As a result of my ignorance I feel doubly shamed by not knowing what a loot ninja was and then finding out because of my ignorance of the need/greed buttons that I am now viewed as a loot ninja because of one incredibly stupid and yet God's honest truth- mistake. On top of the many other faux pas I made, I have the reputation in my guild as a theif... I have reviewed this and am now properly informed. I only hope this guide saves countless other n00bs who have not played mmorpgs in the last 10 years from making uber ignorant mistakes.

 

I'm sorry to hear this. I think some MMO players forget that we are all new once to the game. I'm sure if you explain things they will understand. If not, then perhaps that isn't the guild you need to be in anyway. people make mistakes, and the good folks out there know that.

[spoe]

As many others have pointed out, excellent post and great info for new or backslid gamers, and for those like me (and apparently many others) whose MMO experiences are limited to single-player questing due to the typical overwhelming arrogance of experienced players...

 

My only suggestion: There is a ton of useful info contained in the responses by you and other members of this community in this thread, much of which directly relates to your subject. Please edit your original post to include it, rather than leaving it in the comments and responses for readers to happen across. This post has 19 pages of responses (much of it well-deserved accolades); but few of us have the time to sift through 19 pages looking for the good stuff. For me, I gave up after 8 or 9...

 

I know your desire is to keep the original Guide short, sweet, and simple, and I can appreciate that. And I know that some of the useful info provided in the responses on this thread may not fit your original scope precisely. But there is so much important, critical, useful stuff in here, all things that I've found to be a great benefit to my own play, and to others in the groups I've pitched with. Not including it for everyone to see on page 1 seems criminal...

 

But, in the words of a recently evacuated troll, it's your guide, so I won't demand you do anything with it (I think I put it slightly better than he did). But it would be nice to see the good stuff consolidated to the first page.

 

In any case, thanks for your efforts on sharing this info with the community at large, and helping us all be better cooperative gamers in the process...

 

Actually, sir, it has never really occured to me to do that. Duh moment on my part, obviously. I wonder if the original post will allow for that kind of information. I guess I should have reserved a few posts for doing that. I've never posted something that became stickied before, so blame it on my ignorance and lack of forward thought.

 

I will attempt to consolidate all of the useful information as you suggested. Thanks for pointing it out. Makes perfect sense. However, if one post won't hold that much information, I'm not exactly sure how to proceed. Any thoughts?

[misterME]

Actually, sir, it has never really occured to me to do that. Duh moment on my part, obviously. I wonder if the original post will allow for that kind of information. I guess I should have reserved a few posts for doing that. I've never posted something that became stickied before, so blame it on my ignorance and lack of forward thought.

 

I will attempt to consolidate all of the useful information as you suggested. Thanks for pointing it out. Makes perfect sense. However, if one post won't hold that much information, I'm not exactly sure how to proceed. Any thoughts?

 

There are only two options I can think of.

 

Option 1: It should be as simple as hitting the Edit button above the original post. If for some reason that button isn't there, and the edit functionality has been removed as a secutiry feature of "sticky" posts. Then I guess option 2 is the only other choice.

 

Option 2: Create a brand new post from scratch, copying the info from your original, and adding any new content you feel is appropriate from the 20+ pages of reponses. At some point, a Dev should happen by and sticky it, removing or "unstickying" the original.

 

The ideal option, if Option 1 isn't available, is to contact a Dev and have them reinstitute the Edit functionality in the original post long enough for you to make the changes. But I honestly don't know how easy that is on these forums...

[DavidJVB]

I'm a very long-time RPG player, but this is the first time I've delved in the MMO world. I've been reading just about everything I can find about grouping, the MMO trinity, etiquette, etc. I have to say: of all the "guide for the MMO noob" type pages and posts I've read, this one is the most clear and the most helpful by far.

 

I specifically have been rolling my character to be a DPS type, because I knew the demands in terms of situational awareness and know-how are heavier on the tank and healer roles, and I figured I'd save building one of those until I had some more grouping experience.

 

Given all of that, I've managed to work myself up through level 16 (Sith Marauder) completely by soloing thus far. I've heard a lot about newbies getting a bad reputation (as a "terribad" player or a ninja for example) and of experienced players being really hard on the new guys when you start grouping up, which is the main reason I haven't responded to any "LFG" requests yet. Not only do I not want to get a bad rep, but I don't want to ruin a mission for some other players through my ignorance, either.

 

Any tips on finding people to group with who are more understanding of newbies and their mistakes? Are there groups / guilds that cater to this?

 

Your post here has really got me interested in starting to get in some groups, but I'm still a bit gun-shy and fighting through whatever I can solo as it stands.

 

DB

[MariusZane]

Dunno if mentioned in any of the pages, but a good practice if you are somewhat experienced with the flashpoint you are doing is to ask if the people you are with has done the flashpoint before. This saves alot of explaining and grief.

Someone explaining encounters when the whole group already knows the drill is sure to backfire

Same goes if its the other way around.

And by all means, if you are new to a flashpoint, shout it out! it makes it easier for the group if something needs to be explained, particularly bossfights. Dont be shy, most people will happily explain, as it benefits them aswell.

But there are always exceptions, some people cant tolerate newbies. If that is the case, it is better to just politely leave the group, as it will most likely lead to an unpleasant experience.

[BoOmSwiss]

As a experienced MMO-Player, I believe this is a pretty good guide on explaining Tanks, Dps and healers and the 5 second rule. Also the Need and Greed aspect of it. Well done!

[Ilharess]

I will also add my thanks for the time and effort spent on putting together all those useful tips and suggestions

 

As many others I am a long time (hmm... over ten years now...) player but a novice to MMOs. Actually my 21lvl Sage is the first character I got brave enough to put into some kind of teamwork Before I tried with many MMO and got really discouraged because I was ashamed of my mistakes on the one hand and because of rudeness or stupidity of other group members. So at the end I didn't want to ruin fun for others as well didn't want others to riun my fun and I stayed solo.

 

I started TOR and was actually surprised. I don't know whether I had so bad luck before or I am extremely lucky now, but people I met during my travel through the galaxy are mosty nice and helpful. Finally I started to enjoy playing in a group.

 

From my point of view I'd like to underline (again, because it was already said) the need for comunication in the group. One thing I hated before and I still hate are people, who join the group, behave like bots and after the first mistake or drowback just leave the group in the middle of Heroic Area (sometimes just before the respawn of the mobs) without a word. I'm surely not the best party member ever, but I'm actually trying to do my part as well as I can, so I deserve at least someone telling me: "Find someone else on my place". Also all the suggestions during the play are welcome. It's a lot easier to learn if you are told something than if you have to figure it out yourself (Capitain Obvious says: Hi , but still many forget about it).

 

For example yesterday I had a really cool group. It was a disaster at the begining and we got beaten badly. But with time, team effort and one experienced player, who took the lead and introduced some tactics suddenly we found out, that we suddenly stopped dying and started killing

 

So for the new players: It's not so hard to improve your performance in the group, so don't be afraid to try.

And for the experienced ones: It will not take you a lot of time to explain basics to a newbie or to give him a tip or two but it may greatly improve the overal atmosphere and make the game more fun for everyone.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Ilharess

[spoe]

I'm a very long-time RPG player, but this is the first time I've delved in the MMO world. I've been reading just about everything I can find about grouping, the MMO trinity, etiquette, etc. I have to say: of all the "guide for the MMO noob" type pages and posts I've read, this one is the most clear and the most helpful by far.

 

I specifically have been rolling my character to be a DPS type, because I knew the demands in terms of situational awareness and know-how are heavier on the tank and healer roles, and I figured I'd save building one of those until I had some more grouping experience.

 

Given all of that, I've managed to work myself up through level 16 (Sith Marauder) completely by soloing thus far. I've heard a lot about newbies getting a bad reputation (as a "terribad" player or a ninja for example) and of experienced players being really hard on the new guys when you start grouping up, which is the main reason I haven't responded to any "LFG" requests yet. Not only do I not want to get a bad rep, but I don't want to ruin a mission for some other players through my ignorance, either.

 

Any tips on finding people to group with who are more understanding of newbies and their mistakes? Are there groups / guilds that cater to this?

 

Your post here has really got me interested in starting to get in some groups, but I'm still a bit gun-shy and fighting through whatever I can solo as it stands.

 

DB

 

These are valid concerns you have. But, there is hope! The best thing for new MMO players to do is find a guild sympathetic to new players. Tell them up front that you are new but that you are most willing to hear advice from other players while in groups. This guide might seem a bit daunting, but in reality, it isn't all that hard to master. You do, however, need to practice the skills a bit to become proficient.

 

If you can land in a guild with experienced players who don't mind showing you the ropes, you're home free

 

Random groups, well, you're likely to find a bunch of d-bags who forgot that they were new players once too. That doesn't mean all of them are like that. If you do enter a random group, let the players know you are new so as not to expect you to know things intuitively. If you ask them to explain things, most will. Some won't. But most will.