Sins pretty much useless in ranked

[assatrap]

Its about time someone said this what many sins are feeling right now. Sins are pretty much useless at the moment in ranked. Not talking about regs - all classes can decent in regs and sins are pretty good there.

What do sins contribute in ranked:

 

+ Decent damage and burst melee in 4m range. Yes 4m.... lol compared to sniper and mercs even sorcs unlimited 30m+ freecasting.

+ CC's whirlwind and Low slash - yeh its good but barely makes a difference with skilled players.

 

- Not enough gapclosers - yes we got force speed. But you just cant use it anytime you want you have to save it for

when your getting focused.

- yes we got phantom stride when it works 50% of the time very unreliable.

- Damage reduction: we got 19-20% damage reduction at default. Lowest of all classes.

Then we can add another 15% from maul and 9% from proc.

- Our DR is the big problem: Catch a sin offgaurd - we only got 20% especially if he has no proc on its VERY easy to global a sin even if its almost full 248.

- With endless amounts of pushback, roots, stuns and cc its very very difficult to keep the 15% maul proc dr active especially if your focus target. (mercs and snipers make about 2/3 of the que).

-We have only 1 big breaker - Vanish - but it doesnt work especially if your slowed and there is merc and snipers in ranked they will almost always reveal you 7/10 regardless of how you vanish.

- Problem is our Vanish is not undetectable for like 5 seconds like maras we immediatly get reaveled and we'r pretty much dead in seconds after that.

-NONE of our DCDS work while stunned - NONE... this combined with our lowest dr in class makes sins very vurnebale. We have to anticipate all the time when we are about to get focused - to be absoloulty sure i usually pop a dcd or 2 the second i get attackted. Because iam so traumatized by the 2-3 times i got globled. If the players are smart they wont attack and you have wasted your dcds and pretty much cannon fodder after that.

 

 

So what do sins do in ranked the typical process: typically gets focused - if lucky might able to get a cc or 2. Now at the openening is extremly dangerous for sins since we got very low DR. then vanish at about 40% - heal backup if you lucky and contribute a tiny amount of dps untill your quickly finished....

 

we realy need our Phase Walk back... our make vanish undetectable the first 5-6 seconds. Make some of our DCD's work while stunned. Sins right now are like juggs and PTs- difference being juggs and PTs can actually contribute decend amount of DPS before they die.

 

EDIT: i made this post thread because most people think sins are in a good place. Yes we are in a good place when we got all our procs up and no one touches us...but sin DR is too PROC dependent ... a whopping 24% comes from proc. None of our DCD's works while stunned and our vanish is easily detectable. Summary OUR DCDS needs to be buffed - less proc dependent and some of them should work while stunned. Not enough gapclosers bring back phasewalk...

Edited May 7, 2017 by assatrap

[verfallen]

There is 0 proc in the defensives, its a sure effect.

 

The only one is on crits but if you use recklessness smartly, you get them right at start.

 

Sin IS in a good place, and from your post I can tell you have a lot of room to improve what you are doing.

 

Now you do have a choice tough :

 

Improve, or come here, blame merc and snipers and don't improve.

 

If you choose the former, lots of good info around. If you choose the later, well you're off to a good start.

 

While you identified them AFTER, at least, you should definitely compute the 9%+15% as it gives sin a permanent 45% DR, among the highest in the game. Higher than merc, sniper, PTs and dps jug.

 

Yah.

Edited May 8, 2017 by verfallen

[Evolixe]

If they buff our survivability to any more than what it already is we might as well start full time tanking in Deception.

 

If you are having trouble, you should begin with yourself. Instead of blaming everything else.

 

You get a literal 100% reset if you do it right. Just don't pick a bad moment for it.

The best moment isn't the latest possible moment.

The best moment is when you can still get away safely and recover as much health as possible.

[Ottoattack]

Its about time someone said this what many sins are feeling right now. Sins are pretty much useless at the moment in ranked. Not talking about regs - all classes can decent in regs and sins are pretty good there.

What do sins contribute in ranked:

 

+ Decent damage and burst melee in 4m range. Yes 4m.... lol compared to sniper and mercs even sorcs unlimited 30m+ freecasting.

+ CC's whirlwind and Low slash - yeh its good but barely makes a difference with skilled players.

 

- Not enough gapclosers - yes we got force speed. But you just cant use it anytime you want you have to save it for

when your getting focused.

- yes we got phantom stride when it works 50% of the time very unreliable.

- Damage reduction: we got 19-20% damage reduction at default. Lowest of all classes.

Then we can add another 15% from maul and 9% from proc.

- Our DR is the big problem: Catch a sin offgaurd - we only got 20% especially if he has no proc on its VERY easy to global a sin even if its almost full 248.

- With endless amounts of pushback, roots, stuns and cc its very very difficult to keep the 15% maul proc dr active especially if your focus target. (mercs and snipers make about 2/3 of the que).

-We have only 1 big breaker - Vanish - but it doesnt work especially if your slowed and there is merc and snipers in ranked they will almost always reveal you 7/10 regardless of how you vanish.

- Problem is our Vanish is not undetectable for like 5 seconds like maras we immediatly get reaveled and we'r pretty much dead in seconds after that.

-NONE of our DCDS work while stunned - NONE... this combined with our lowest dr in class makes sins very vurnebale. We have to anticipate all the time when we are about to get focused - to be absoloulty sure i usually pop a dcd or 2 the second i get attackted. Because iam so traumatized by the 2-3 times i got globled. If the players are smart they wont attack and you have wasted your dcds and pretty much cannon fodder after that.

 

 

So what do sins do in ranked the typical process: typically gets focused - if lucky might able to get a cc or 2. Now at the openening is extremly dangerous for sins since we got very low DR. then vanish at about 40% - heal backup if you lucky and contribute a tiny amount of dps untill your quickly finished....

 

we realy need our Phase Walk back... our make vanish undetectable the first 5-6 seconds. Make some of our DCD's work while stunned. Sins right now are like juggs and PTs- difference being juggs and PTs can actually contribute decend amount of DPS before they die.

 

EDIT: i made this post thread because most people think sins are in a good place. Yes we are in a good place when we got all our procs up and no one touches us...but sin DR is too PROC dependent ... a whopping 24% comes from proc. None of our DCD's works while stunned and our vanish is easily detectable. Summary OUR DCDS needs to be buffed - less proc dependent and some of them should work while stunned. Not enough gapclosers bring back phasewalk...

 

There is so much L2P. Way so much...

 

No gap closers? You mean 15 sec unhindered movement speed breaking roots does not count? From all melee dps, Dec is are arguably the hardest to control in combat.. Please explain how phantom stride is "unreliable." I have not used once and it did not work.

 

As for "very low DR"... this is either a lie or you are absolutely clueless. Dec sins get 9 bonus armor + utility that adds armor. Passive damage reduction is a bit over 32% then Dec gets flat 15% reduced damage on top of that... Yes Dec sins do not have massive "cannot touch this" DCDs, but I would argue that Dec sins are balanced, its snipers and merc that need (and will) get a suvivability nerf. Also, Dec is more survivable than merc if you have a healer..

 

The only thing that I would agree with is the maul position requirement. It is a relic when maul used to be the strongest hitting skill. As PT main and playing mainly combat sentinel, I do not see any reason for the positioning requirement as Dec currently stands.

 

If we are talking about Hatred sins, ya, they suck. Dec, L2P. If you are struggling in yolo que being focused by 4 dps, I hate to break it to you, this is not what the game designed or balanced around.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Ottoattack

[Kirpputori]

+ Decent damage and burst melee in 4m range. Yes 4m.... lol compared to sniper and mercs even sorcs unlimited 30m+ freecasting.

+ CC's whirlwind and Low slash - yeh its good but barely makes a difference with skilled players.

Isn't about half of sins attack 10m tho. And cmon, no need to mention sorcs since they'll die in around 10s after round starts.

to be absoloulty sure i usually pop a dcd or 2 the second i get attackted.

If you pop both dcd's the moment one person attacks you, that might be part of the problem

 

 

So what do sins do in ranked the typical process: typically gets focused

sorcs, pt's and juggs are on the focus list before sins, and maras tend to be sometimes too before sin. And sometimes even operative if other team has mercs, since oper is basically defenseless when netted

 

Sins right now are like juggs and PTs- difference being juggs and PTs can actually contribute decend amount of DPS before they die.

If pt's and juggs does better than sin, it's player skill issue

 

EDIT: i made this post thread because most people think sins are in a good place.

tbh i'd say sins are in rather good place atm. Certainly not near op, and definitely not near trash. Big amount of control and nasty burst. Sure, nets and engi sniper probe cucks sins but that's the case with every melee atm

 

tl;dr most likely l2p issue

[Luuin]

If we are talking about Hatred sins, ya, they suck.

 

:(

[Kazz_Devlin]

There is so much L2P. Way so much...

 

No gap closers? You mean 15 sec unhindered movement speed breaking roots does not count? From all melee dps, Dec is are arguably the hardest to control in combat.. Please explain how phantom stride is "unreliable." I have not used once and it did not work.

 

As for "very low DR"... this is either a lie or you are absolutely clueless. Dec sins get 9 bonus armor + utility that adds armor. Passive damage reduction is a bit over 32% then Dec gets flat 15% reduced damage on top of that... Yes Dec sins do not have massive "cannot touch this" DCDs, but I would argue that Dec sins are balanced, its snipers and merc that need (and will) get a suvivability nerf. Also, Dec is more survivable than merc if you have a healer..

 

The only thing that I would agree with is the maul position requirement. It is a relic when maul used to be the strongest hitting skill. As PT main and playing mainly combat sentinel, I do not see any reason for the positioning requirement as Dec currently stands.

 

If we are talking about Hatred sins, ya, they suck. Dec, L2P. If you are struggling in yolo que being focused by 4 dps, I hate to break it to you, this is not what the game designed or balanced around.

 

ok as for PS not working he's god $%$& right! it's a 50/50 crap shoot on whether it transports/teleports what ever nomenclature you wish to use the fact is it don't work all the time just gives you the speed buff. Any visible terrain a space herpes, force ghost, Biowares's miasma of uttter failure standing in your way and wham all you get is speed buff. The fact that you haven't experienced this i find dubious. Can't count number of times when i could have finished off a sorc and hit my PS only to get lame as speed buff.

As for 9 bonus armor could you please explain this? I'm having trouble with this I know we get a max of 9% damage reduction from entropic field but were are you get a bonus of 9 to armor? Yeah we can get bonus to armor at cost of emersion or dark stability from my experience i go from 4k to 5.6k which raises my DR to 33% at the cost of mobility (i.e emersion) or increased ability to slow peeps (magnetism) or stun immunity *dark stability)

Edited May 23, 2017 by Kazz_Devlin

[KendraP]

we realy need our Phase Walk back... our make vanish undetectable the first 5-6 seconds. Make some of our DCD's work while stunned. Sins right now are like juggs and PTs- difference being juggs and PTs can actually contribute decend amount of DPS before they die.

/QUOTE]

 

As a vigi guardian reading I'm more survivable that a sin when focused makes me want to cry lol. I have one self heal, a fake heal, and ward. I don't do ranked admittedly because I've read how terrible that is as vigi. But in 4v4 it sucks seeing as I'm generally the first one focused. Without a dedictated healer I'm dead in 4v4.

 

And PTs? Haha you're funny. Roll a merc. Seriously more damage and survivability. Just give them a taunt and they'll be a better tank than PTs.

[Evolixe]

As a vigi guardian reading I'm more survivable that a sin when focused makes me want to cry lol.

 

Well that's not true, so don't you worry about us.

[teclado]

Please explain how phantom stride is "unreliable." I have not used once and it did not work.

Oh man. I usually play Mara, but I've been playing Deception for the past week just for fun. Phantom Stride is super buggy. Mara leap is far more reliable, and there are plenty of situations in which you end up short of the target after leaping, for no apparent reason.

 

It seems to be worse on certain maps like original Huttball. Any time you have things like ramps, it starts to not work so well. You vanish and then suddenly appear right back where you started. Happens all the time to me. I just played huttball and it happened about 2-3 times.

[Zolxtren]

LOL sin useless in ranked ? PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF pleeeeeease..... Try a DPS Sorc in ranked.... now THATS useless......

[Elusive_Thing]

LOL sin useless in ranked ? PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF pleeeeeease..... Try a DPS Sorc in ranked.... now THATS useless......

So two classes can't underperform at the same time? Who will tell this to the DPS Juggies and PTs?

[KendraP]

So two classes can't underperform at the same time? Who will tell this to the DPS Juggies and PTs?

 

Naturally more than one class can underperform in pvp. And a a dps guardian (on pub side harby no less) I will say that the issue with guardians is not dps. It's survivability.

 

I commented on this thread to be a smart alec a while ago, and not playing a sin/shadow I am perhaps assuming a lot, but it just seems that guardians (and worse for PT) just don't have the survivability of sins.

[invertioN]

Well there are 2 main problems for sins in ranked, but really one is caused by the other.

1. Merc and sniper dcds, electro net and plasma probe, and marauders having too many immunities (though this is not that bad, depends on both team comps really).

2. There are too many mercs and snipers; if there was a balance of the classes qing then it would be a lot more pleasant to q as sin.

 

Personally I stopped qing after I reached gold tier on sin because of those reasons. If I like the new class changes I will q again, especially if somehow hatred becomes good.

[xxZman]

I don't think Deception should be buffed, I think deception is the ideal sort of balance. You get some defensives, good dmg, some good cc and mobility. I think the problem is that the other classes are so so good and have amazing self heal even on dps only specs. i.e. sniper. They have roots, slows, kiting, they can't be interuppted, can't be stunned, can't be jumped too. Every class is on steroids now besides deception.