Storyline Ops Need an Overhaul

[J_Craver]

You know, if it had been up to me, ops would never have been connected to the main storyline. They would have been optional side content, like most of the flashpoints. Because it's a stupid idea to make progressing a single-player storyline dependent on getting seven other people to group up at once, let alone insuring that they fill all combat roles, let alone insuring that none of them rage quit the first time the group loses a fight. It's like pulling teeth, and it's why not a single toon I've leveled up from Level 1 has ever -- ever -- made it to KOTFE.

 

But that ship has sailed, hasn't it? The content has been released, and now we have to deal with it, don't we? But that doesn't mean that BioWare couldn't make dealing with it just a little easier. They could add a story mode for the Dread War and Revan-related ops, the way they did with the Revan and Ilum flashpoints. Perhaps this story mode could require a group of four instead of eight. Or they could open up Ops Group Finder so that you can get the GF bonus for any op at any time, the way you can with flashpoints, which would incentivize joining pick up groups and disincentivize rage-quitting. Or they could allow the same op to be done more than once a week, the way you can with flashpoints. There are all kinds of tweaks they could make to this system to make it actually possible to complete this content in a reasonable period of time.

 

I bring this up, guys, because I finished my class storyline on my latest Sorcerer a week and a half ago and decided that this time I would power through the ops instead of giving up and starting a new toon. And as a result of this decision, I have spent a minimum of two hours on the Fleet every single night for the past week begging strangers to group up with me, because I never have seven friends with the proper balance of combat roles, who are interested in raiding but aren't locked out from that particular op, on the server at the same time. And then, once I have the group filled, I inevitably get three or four bosses into the op and have someone rage quit over the group losing a fight or them not getting the loot they wanted. So then it's back to the fleet for another round of chat-begging for new members, only harder now because it's later and less people are online. And, of course, there have been several nights (including this one, when there were over 100 people on the Fleet) when I couldn't even do the op at all, because I couldn't get any tanks to step up or I couldn't keep two healers in the group for more than 30 minutes at a time.

 

For God's sake, devs, I am paying you to play this game and instead I'm standing around like an idiot for literal hours every night begging people to group up because it's necessary to advance the plot. This is not value for my subscription money. And when I stop getting value for money, I stop spending it, savvy?

[bdatt]

 

Dread Masters die

 

 

You don't miss much story wise, but you do miss some of the best trash talking in the actual operations.

 

But a "skip to final cutscene" option would be fine at this point.

 

That said i see groups on JC when it's the gf op.

Edited May 5, 2017 by bdatt

[J_Craver]

Key phrase there being "when it's the gf op." When the op is in Group Finder, you can get a group just by snapping your fingers. But meanwhile, I'm stuck on the end of the Oricon storyline because Dread Palace was in the Group Finder the day I did Makeb, and I have to wait almost a week for it to come around again.

[Pietrastor]

Solo Mode for Operations would've been a better course of action IMO. Make a basic, simple version to get through the story, heck, remove most of mechanics/puzzles and stuff. No one would complain.

 

At the same time, creating Solo Mode would vastly increase the utilization of the content by the playerbase in general and thus justify the investement in the whole thing more. Sure, most hardcore mechanics would still be primarly created for group versions, but all the art, assets, level design and cutscenes created for the Operations would be played by a (much) larger number of the players and allow Ops to partake in core story progression.

 

We all know MMO developement economics weight the usage of content heavily and I believe Solo Mode for story players would only improve it.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Pietrastor

[J_Craver]

Preach it, brother!

[Halinalle]

Oricon is side storyline. You can do it any time after you gain access to it. Even after completing KotET. It stays in you quest log until you finish it. Just like Ilum and Makeb.

 

Solo Mode for Operations would've been a better course of action IMO. Make a basic, simple version to get through the story, heck, remove most of mechanics/puzzles and stuff. No one would complain.

 

Keep the loot?

Edited May 5, 2017 by Halinalle

[merovejec]

What server are you on mate?

 

I can come over and make a group for you!

[Yezzan]

They probably need to remove enrage and reduce mechanics damage in story mode. Ops tend to drag out because of wipes and rage-quiting. On a lighter note, I healed 9.9k HPS on Tyth (via GF) and there were no wipes ( i understand the burn phase usually results in a wipe). Edited May 5, 2017 by Yezzan

[Nefaras]

Solution: Like it is with revan, you can have a special Story Fight and all is fine.

 

 

But stop asking for *********** solo content. The game is in such a garbage state (way to easy , class balancing is slow and most of the time trash, bug fixxes...we dont need to talk here , pvp...hahahaha , and NO new operation content until now...and we just got one boss)

 

They should delete the **** bolster, give Hard Mode Flashpoints real loot back that you need to learn your class right, than you can do story mode ops (raise the difficulty here like it was in 2.0 , 3.0) learn and become better, than you can jump into hard / nim. People who die in these so calles "Story Mode Operations" should not be playing at all, it was not hard 2 years ago ...and now my 2 year old could play them if i mark the keyboard with colors he needs to press....

 

We have 2 Server where are a decent amount of players still online , the rest of the servers are dead (except some guilds ). This Solo/Story killed the game (and yes i like the story, i liked the kotor games ....) but this is an MMORPG. Solo Content should not be the major part of your play experience here.....

 

The story was a big ++++ in the 1-50 area. And is still good but weaker (no more personal) . But people who sub just to enjoy a little bit of story and than continue to play other games (even if they buy cartel ****) will not help the game.

 

Agreed they need a Overhaul, make them harder like before! Stop the wining if content is hard, enjoy when you improve =). And before the cry mode goes on..... The time arguement is trash (Even with 60hrs work per week and a son i could do it) . MMORPGs are here that you play with people , they are not a solo thing.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Nefaras

[Yezzan]

Solution:

They should delete the **** bolster, give Hard Mode Flashpoints real loot back that you need to learn your class right, than you can do story mode ops (raise the difficulty here like it was in 2.0 , 3.0) learn and become better, than you can jump into hard / nim. People who die in these so calles "Story Mode Operations" should not be playing at all, it was not hard 2 years ago ...and now my 2 year old could play them if i mark the keyboard with colors he needs to press....

 

We have 2 Server where are a decent amount of players still online , the rest of the servers are dead (except some guilds ). This Solo/Story killed the game (and yes i like the story, i liked the kotor games ....) but this is an MMORPG. Solo Content should not be the major part of your play experience here.....

 

The story was a big ++++ in the 1-50 area. And is still good but weaker (no more personal) . But people who sub just to enjoy a little bit of story and than continue to play other games (even if they buy cartel ****) will not help the game.

 

To what end? People are getting themselves killed in regular FPs let alone harder stuff. Story-mode didn't kill the game. People gripe about class balance, and new PvP maps/ OPs and rage quit for one reason or the other.

 

I don't know what you going on about MMORP but most games that fall in that category cater to the diverse player-base. Even C9, which is a dungeon-based game, has solo mode, because you can solo the dungeons. SWTOR, has group content, it's just that things that players HAVE to do to progress story-wise can be done solo, as it should be.

 

There are a lot of ops and FPs and uprisings with various difficulty mode. So go a MM uprising by yourself ans see how that works out for you. if people are solo-ing, its because they want to; group content is certainly there. But, you don't group for gameplay as much as you group for interaction.

[Nefaras]

To what end? People are getting themselves killed in regular FPs let alone harder stuff. Story-mode didn't kill the game. People gripe about class balance, and new PvP maps/ OPs and rage quit for one reason or the other.

 

I don't know what you going on about MMORP but most games that fall in that category cater to the diverse player-base. Even C9, which is a dungeon-based game, has solo mode, because you can solo the dungeons. SWTOR, has group content, it's just that things that players HAVE to do to progress story-wise can be done solo, as it should be.

 

There are a lot of ops and FPs and uprisings with various difficulty mode. So go a MM uprising by yourself ans see how that works out for you. if people are solo-ing, its because they want to; group content is certainly there. But, you don't group for gameplay as much as you group for interaction.

 

And how long is it the same group content? 3.0 dropped december 9 2014 , since than no real group content until now the one Boss.

 

As i said with my solution tag, im fine when there are people who want to enjoy the story , but in a mmorpg , the group content keeps the game alive , nothing else.

 

The people who quit the game did it for a reason. The playerbase is now smaller than it was with 2.0, 3.0 .....

[merovejec]

The playerbase is now smaller than it was with 2.0, 3.0 .....

 

Sadly so is the team which handles the game now

[Memo-]

The solo Revan fight isn't the alternative to the Temple of Sacrifice operation, it's the conclusion of the Shadow of Revan storyline. You do a string of dailies if you don't want to do the operation, but everyone does the solo Revan fight.

 

Dread Masters is a side story and it isn't erased if you start KotFE.

 

Gods from the Machine isn't strictly part of the post-KotET storyline and doing it won't advance the plot.

[DownloadStarter]

You know, if it had been up to me, ops would never have been connected to the main storyline. They would have been optional side content, like most of the flashpoints. Because it's a stupid idea to make progressing a single-player storyline dependent on getting seven other people to group up at once, let alone insuring that they fill all combat roles, let alone insuring that none of them rage quit the first time the group loses a fight. It's like pulling teeth, and it's why not a single toon I've leveled up from Level 1 has ever -- ever -- made it to KOTFE.

 

But that ship has sailed, hasn't it? The content has been released, and now we have to deal with it, don't we? But that doesn't mean that BioWare couldn't make dealing with it just a little easier. They could add a story mode for the Dread War and Revan-related ops, the way they did with the Revan and Ilum flashpoints. Perhaps this story mode could require a group of four instead of eight. Or they could open up Ops Group Finder so that you can get the GF bonus for any op at any time, the way you can with flashpoints, which would incentivize joining pick up groups and disincentivize rage-quitting. Or they could allow the same op to be done more than once a week, the way you can with flashpoints. There are all kinds of tweaks they could make to this system to make it actually possible to complete this content in a reasonable period of time.

 

I bring this up, guys, because I finished my class storyline on my latest Sorcerer a week and a half ago and decided that this time I would power through the ops instead of giving up and starting a new toon. And as a result of this decision, I have spent a minimum of two hours on the Fleet every single night for the past week begging strangers to group up with me, because I never have seven friends with the proper balance of combat roles, who are interested in raiding but aren't locked out from that particular op, on the server at the same time. And then, once I have the group filled, I inevitably get three or four bosses into the op and have someone rage quit over the group losing a fight or them not getting the loot they wanted. So then it's back to the fleet for another round of chat-begging for new members, only harder now because it's later and less people are online. And, of course, there have been several nights (including this one, when there were over 100 people on the Fleet) when I couldn't even do the op at all, because I couldn't get any tanks to step up or I couldn't keep two healers in the group for more than 30 minutes at a time.

 

For God's sake, devs, I am paying you to play this game and instead I'm standing around like an idiot for literal hours every night begging people to group up because it's necessary to advance the plot. This is not value for my subscription money. And when I stop getting value for money, I stop spending it, savvy?

 

Well, instead of asking for a complete overhaul to suit your needs, maybe instead work within the existing infrastructure properly? I mean, really, I don't know how you expected any other experience than the one you had sitting around spamming Genchat for an Ops group. It's just not how things are done, in personal experience.

[J_Craver]

And how are things done, o wise sage?

 

Should I join a guild? I did that. It's a big guild, 50 to 60 people online every night. And not a single one is interested in raiding if the op isn't in the group finder.

 

Should I rearrange my schedule so that I play at a time when more people are online? Because I hate to break it to you, but an online game is pretty far down the list of the most important things in my life.

 

Do please explain to me what I need to change about myself to make this clunky-*** eight-person group mechanic that forces you to depend on the goodwill and competence of strangers work.

[VegasTheLost]

And how are things done, o wise sage?

 

Should I join a guild? I did that. It's a big guild, 50 to 60 people online every night. And not a single one is interested in raiding if the op isn't in the group finder.

 

Should I rearrange my schedule so that I play at a time when more people are online? Because I hate to break it to you, but an online game is pretty far down the list of the most important things in my life.

 

Do please explain to me what I need to change about myself to make this clunky-*** eight-person group mechanic that forces you to depend on the goodwill and competence of strangers work.

 

Joining a guild where you are not just a number but a member and where you can find folks who has similar playstyle and schedule. This helps a lot. Where to find them? Head over to the server sections of these forums or look for advertisements in genchat.

 

Also for the schedule, weekly 2 hours are more than enough to complete every ops in the game in a decent time. Yes weekly, I didn't mis-typed. So if someone, anyone, can't spend 2 hours a week for something that needs to be overhauled in their opinion, because grouping sux than I think the problem is not in the game.

Edited May 5, 2017 by VegasTheLost

[J_Craver]

Again, I would have no problem with only being able to run a given op weekly if they weren't connected to the storyline, but they are. They really are. For example: I get a message on my ship's mission terminal saying I should go to the fleet and talk to a droid. The droid connects me to Darth Marr, who wants me to go to Oricon to face the Dread Masters once and for all. When I get to Oricon, I meet a Sith Lord who gives me a series of interlocking quests to soften up the Dread Masters' forces, at the end of which I storm the Dread Fortress.

 

This is a storyline. It's a storyline that clearly takes place before KOTFE, because Marr is still alive and the Dread Masters believe the Emperor is dead. And it's a storyline that I cannot complete without doing not one but two eight-person ops, despite every part of the storyline leading up to them being single-player. I don't see what's unreasonable about wanting to finish this storyline in less than a week and a half, especially when I'm being billed monthly to play this game.

[VegasTheLost]

This is the Dread War story line that is told with operations. Oricon is a side mission only as well as Section X. Just something that connects some dots but not all. Not at all. When you reach Oricon, something vital already happened in a previous OP. And also before that in previous OPs.

 

So no, Oricon is not a single story line, it is a bonus mission for a sidequest, at the most. Because the Dread War is a sidequest.

[FerkWork]

Make each KotFE and KotET Chapter as an Operation then. ''Tis only fair for players like me.

[bdatt]

Is the questline "purple?" I don't actually know since I haven't made a new character in years. If so that could be on Bioware for implying it's part of the main required story and not exploration. Edited May 5, 2017 by bdatt

[JLazarillo]

So no, Oricon is not a single story line, it is a bonus mission for a sidequest, at the most. Because the Dread War is a sidequest.

Is it really a sidequest when the content that comes after it makes reference to the fact that you did it, though?

[psandak]

Is it really a sidequest when the content that comes after it makes reference to the fact that you did it, though?

 

please specify. I honestly do not recall a moment in SOR or beyond where the Dread Masters are mentioned at all.

[Halinalle]

Oricon is mentioned once or twice. Can't really remember the exact number of times but nothing specific to story of Dread Masters isn't mentioned.

[FerkWork]

please specify. I honestly do not recall a moment in SOR or beyond where the Dread Masters are mentioned at all.

 

There is only one mention afaik and it's so irrelevant as an offhandedly remark that can be ignored and is missed by most.

 

 

On Yavin in SOR, there is one line by Satele Shan who compares the Darkside on Oricon vs the power emitted on Yavin and an option retort by you (or just ignore the line) that the Dread Masters were only a fraction of the power of the Emperor. There is zero mention at all of your involvement or resolution. Heck when you are on Darvannis in KOTFE there is zero mention anywhere of SnV

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by FerkWork

[bdatt]

Is it really a sidequest when the content that comes after it makes reference to the fact that you did it, though?

 

The Dread Masters Oricon stuff is a "yellow" quest line so in fact considered by Bioware to be exploration and optional. I apparently have it just started on my Maurader. Unlike SOR, KOTFE/KOTET, Iokath that are purple and considered critical path.