5.2 Gear Gap is Wrecking New Players

[Kurj]

To be honest I think Icy is overdoing it.

 

It depends on your point of view. If you're looking at things from Keith's perspective, yes, it seems overboard given he has been in his new position for less than 2 months. If you look at it from the perspective of PVP players who are fed up with the gearing system and its effects on PVP populations, it is spot on. People have been complaining about these issues for months now, and while it may not be entirely fair to take it out on Keith, the gripe is legitimate.

[merovejec]

It depends on your point of view. If you're looking at things from Keith's perspective, yes, it seems overboard given he has been in his new position for less than 2 months. If you look at it from the perspective of PVP players who are fed up with the gearing system and its effects on PVP populations, it is spot on. People have been complaining about these issues for months now, and while it may not be entirely fair to take it out on Keith, the gripe is legitimate.

 

Yes I know what you mean, I wrote it myself, if PVPers want the gear fast they can get it, but have to go PVE for it, which as you all say shouldnt be the case. Well, personnaly dont see a way to have all sides what they want, the only way is a compromise.

 

Like for examle if you remember at start of 5.0 Eric said that the most rewarding content will be Ranked, Uprisings and NiM Ops. This was only true for ranked, which gave MAJOR cxp and PVPers were fine, but then came the nerfs and system change to what we have now. The components are a good idea in general, but yes, you need to combine them with PVE OPs tokens for efficient gearing.

 

Still I dont see any good way how to fix it and increasing bolster should be the solution as it would remove gearing for PVPers completely.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I just wrote a scathing post to Keith in his road map thread because he is just ignoring major issues and only posting "fluff" to try and distract us.

Guys don't fall for Bios sleight of hand tricks "again", about new things while the ignore important issues.

 

My post to him might be a bit full on for some of you and I'm sure some will disagree. But know that it's from the heart because I want what's best for the game and they just have their heads in the sand.

 

I'm going to post this in a few threads that are going on these important topics to try and rally people who want the issues in those thread addressed. I am not trying to spam, but not everyone reads topics that they don't care about and I didn't want to start another thread.

 

Anyway, here is Keith's latest post and my reply.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=921404&page=38

 

Good Job Icy, when I saw that excerpt that the teaser was about customizing that pub flake theron my eyes just about bugged out of my skull! That's supposed to make us feel better about the future?? That's more important than the problems facing PVP due to gear differences, class imbalances and concerns over premades and the like?? Wth???

 

It moved me to respond to his post directly in that thread. I think it was a good idea that you posted about it in different areas on the forums to insure as many people were aware of it as possible and could respond in kind if they were moved to do so.

 

Well done, Icy.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

To be honest I think Icy is overdoing it.

 

She is old enough to understand how a business and MMO work. From how it looks till now the game is pretty much being run by the RPers who wanna play space barbie as they buy the stuff off CM and thats why they develop it so much, instead of for example Ranked Season Rewards. Sure leaderboards are full of players, but who are they? Probably mostly noobs who tried to make easy components of CXP.

 

2 things I wanna say to this.

 

1. Its an MMO, there needs to be a grind for gear and they have made it easier since 5.0 so the stuff that "new players get wrecked by geared players" is legit, look at GSF and try going in with a tier 1 Strike Fighter. Its how its supposed to be. Bolster? Why u want 250 bolster? There would be no initiative to play PVP, why? for gear? no need! For components? What do i need gear for when its 250 bolster?

 

2. State of the game is at it is. The game is made not only for PVPers, RPers and PVErs, its made for the combination of these. For example I play all parts of the game and I dont experience the things you write here as bugs. Sure I havent played my Scoundrel in ages so I cant tell if I still get stuck in ground and kicked out of WZ after respawn, but all those bots etc I never seen! If you are just one of those players (pure PVP or pure PVE) maybe yes, there are things that are not good for you and PVPers are forced to gear up using PVE stuff and vice versa, but that is due to the game phylosophy, which you should understand. They want people to play it all and experience it all. Its also important for the statistics and metrics to show management, if we want to keep playing this game.

 

So in the end, I know there might be issues, but the game is still fun and people keep on coming back to it. Change always come, sooner or later, but they do come!

 

 

While I have no issue at all with Icy's post, I do agree with you that there needs to be a grind in MMOs, and BIS gearing should not be easy and it should not be quick. Personally, I love gearing [the progression raider in me!], they can keep on coming out with new gear every 3 months I would be thrilled. I'm one peice of gear away from full 248 BIS gearing. Keep it coming!

 

I also agree with you about the different modes of play being options that one can either choose or not choose and that in partaking in different modes of play this can effect your ability to gear. I, like you, play all modes of play. [i had stopped raiding when 5.0 came out because the two progression raid groups I was in disbanded within a week of 5.0 and because they took gear out of operations]. I have mostly geared through PVP and UCs, with lower level gear being gotten in Operations and than upgraded in some cases, and only recently have I started to get back into raiding more heavily because more people are going into Operations again because there is gear to be had in them.

 

I am personally of the notion that BIS gear should be strictly for raiders. Take it out of PVP, raise the bolster, make gear irrelivent for PVPers [which, is afterall what they want], and thus make PVPing solely about skill vs skill again. If PVPers also want BIS gear than they should have to do Operations to get it just like it was before 5.0.

 

All in all, since 5.2, I have very little to complain about, gearing if anything is better than ever because of the various choices that exist to get it.

 

But seriuosly, don't tell me that the things being worked upon by BW in terms of importance is the color of Theron's friggen underoos. That are more important issues that should be tackled first heh

[Foambreaker]

Actually it's not fast or easy for dedicated pvpers who don't do pve content. Plus while you grind the gear you are getting farmed by people in BiS. That is in no way fun and a massive turn off

 

Of course, you do realize this is really PvP vs PvE elite in this thread. The PvEers are protecting their advantage.

 

That is all.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Of course, you do realize this is really PvP vs PvE elite in this thread. The PvEers are protecting their advantage.

 

That is all.

 

I can't imagine what Star Wars MMO you are playing.

[Thaladan]

Pvers are bad and always be, that's the reason they love to hit bots.

 

period.

[Kurj]

Of course, you do realize this is really PvP vs PvE elite in this thread. The PvEers are protecting their advantage.

 

That is all.

 

That is not what's going on. The current gear system permits PVP players to gear like PVE elites, while the lack of expertise no longer results in a penalty for end-game PVE gear. This is combined with a much, much longer time-to-gear than previously. That is the fundamental problem.

[Eli_Porter]

Didn't Expertise also penalize new players who didn't know about PvP gear? Edited May 19, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Kurj]

Didn't Expertise also penalize new players who didn't know about PvP gear?

 

Eli, if I didn't know better, I'd say you were setting me up with a question you already know the answer to But, yes, the answer is yes. Expertise had its own issues. There were ways around it, but you wouldn't figure it out on your own in game. You had to find Icykill's bolster thread to know what rating gear to buy to avoid bolster penalties until you got your initial set of PVP gear. Which took all of 2 weeks for a very casual playstyle, more like 1 week for the average player. That made it a much less significant issue than what we have now, if only because the problem was so short-lived.

[Seterade]

Lets not forget, most pvpers made the 208 20k wz comms just lvling from 10-65.

[Kurj]

Lets not forget, most pvpers made the 208 20k wz comms just lvling from 10-65.

 

That is an interesting point. How does our analysis change if GC starts from level 1, and you can divert experience either to regular or CXP as you level, to start your gear as you move along, at your desired rate? And not just "oh wow that'd be great," but what would the potential problems as well as the benefits be of doing that?

[stoopicus]

That is an interesting point. How does our analysis change if GC starts from level 1, and you can divert experience either to regular or CXP as you level, to start your gear as you move along, at your desired rate? And not just "oh wow that'd be great," but what would the potential problems as well as the benefits be of doing that?

 

The difference is still RNG. WZ comms were deterministic.

 

Honestly - nothing is going to make me like a RNG based loot system. Not because they are uncommon, just the opposite - they are average, mediocre MMO loot systems. We had better. The loot system in SWTOR, being driven by player choice, really stood out as an advancement to me. Not unique either, but I felt it was well done and a real selling point of the game. Ben taking the game back to RNG was a huge leap back to mediocrity.

Edited May 19, 2017 by stoopicus

[Eli_Porter]

Deterministic gearing currently exists in the form of GTN (246 gear coming there in 5.3 probably) and UC's.

 

What if every 5 valor ranks gave you an auto-reward mission, like the ones for alliance specialist levels. The reward would be a PvP strongbox containing crafting materials (VMC/Isotopes) and UC's.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[stoopicus]

Deterministic gearing currently exists in the form of GTN (246 gear coming there in 5.3 probably) and UC's.

 

That word does not mean what you think it means

 

But please, just stop. The fact that a player aftermarket exists does not imply that the gearing system is deterministic, just that there is a workaround for a bad gearing system.

 

UCs do indeed exist. Do we have to have our discussion about the glacial pace of gearing via UCs again? The one where I post depressing numbers, you counter with "BUT THE WEEKLIES!", and I post the number "124 per week"?

 

We can have that discussion again, but it is getting old, Eli.

Edited May 19, 2017 by stoopicus

[Kurj]

That word does not mean what you think it means

 

Inconceivable!

[Eli_Porter]

We can have that discussion again, but it is getting old, Eli.

 

I'm literally doing the opposite of having that discussion again. I'm coming up with suggestions to address your concerns.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Kurj]

Deterministic gearing currently exists in the form of GTN (246 gear coming there in 5.3 probably) and UC's.

 

What if every 5 valor ranks gave you an auto-reward mission, like the ones for alliance specialist levels. The reward would be a PvP strongbox containing crafting materials (VMC/Isotopes) and UC's.

 

That would work out to 20 boxes over 100 valor ranks, and the higher ranks take a long time to get. They would have to drop a huge amount of UCs to make much difference. Way more than what we are currently getting for the daily or weekly.

[stoopicus]

I'm literally doing the opposite of having that discussion again. I'm coming up with suggestions to address your concerns.

 

Crafting will indeed fix a lot. In fact for me it will fix everything, but for others, probably less so.

 

As long as we're LARPing Princess Bride here, for me the lack of mats in 5.2 was INCONCEIVABLE

[Kurj]

You keep on'a using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Seterade]

So I just jumped on my gunslinger, absolutely horrid gear. He melted. 5 times in a row. The bolster vs 242^ which most ppl have on their mains is a slaughter.

[Eli_Porter]

That would work out to 20 boxes over 100 valor ranks, and the higher ranks take a long time to get. They would have to drop a huge amount of UCs to make much difference. Way more than what we are currently getting for the daily or weekly.

 

It would encourage alts, and wouldn't tip the rewards too much in PvP's favor due to the diminishing returns.

[Seterade]

I have 16 toons.

 

That being said, I have a total 16 dailys a day. If you factor that if you daily every day you finish the weekly in 7 days. you add that 16 dailys is all day long (no room for life there) and you get 12 for each toon. So lets suppose I have all the time in world an swtor is my life. that's 192 for all day long. lets add in 1 win and 2 losses for every daily, that's 226. that 418 a day. remember I have no life, swtor is my life in this count. lets add after 7 days 40 for each toon. 640. In theory I could make 3,566 in a week. with no life.

 

418 possible a day

640 in weeklys on Monday.

7 days add up 3566 a week.

 

finally 2 losses and 1 win for all 16 is roughly 12 minutes x3, 36. for sake of arguments, lets say 30 minutes a toon.

 

for spending 8 hours a day on swtor, 7 days a week. I can make 3566 in a week.

[Seterade]

I have 16 toons.

 

That being said, I have a total 16 dailys a day. If you factor that if you daily every day you finish the weekly in 7 days. you add that 16 dailys is all day long (no room for life there) and you get 12 for each toon. So lets suppose I have all the time in world an swtor is my life. that's 192 for all day long. lets add in 1 win and 2 losses for every daily, that's 226. that 418 a day. remember I have no life, swtor is my life in this count. lets add after 7 days 40 for each toon. 640. In theory I could make 3,566 in a week. with no life.

 

418 possible a day

640 in weeklys on Monday.

7 days add up 3566 a week.

 

finally 2 losses and 1 win for all 16 is roughly 12 minutes x3, 36. for sake of arguments, lets say 30 minutes a toon.

 

for spending 8 hours a day on swtor, 7 days a week. I can make 3566 in a week.

 

rip. I forgot to add, these are not legacy bound, so you can make 84 UC in dailys after 7 days, add 8 for a win and 6 for 2 losses x7 = 98+84 = 182+40(for weekly) = 222....... you made 222 per toon across 16 toons. have fun with that.

 

A week. 222 a week.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Seterade

[Icykill_]

Of course, you do realize this is really PvP vs PvE elite in this thread. The PvEers are protecting their advantage.

 

That is all.

 

Yes, agreed, but I'll add it's also the hybrid players who take pvp more casually than the dedicated pvpers, so a gear gap is also important to them to be competitive.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Icykill_