Akando Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 How much extra damage? I really want to go the rage line but feel that to be i schii cho form all the time takes so much away from the guarding of your healers in pvp. The skill schii cho mastery seams to be one of the KEY tallents in the tree but perhaps I am wrong? Does anyone have any hard numbers on what amount that will effect overall damage percentage wise... I am sure it can't be a 20 percent increase in damage. Thanks for any help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabaal Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) It will vary from target to target and will be more effective on heavy armour users than light. I'm pulling these numbers out of a hat but it probably goes something like : Heavy armour user has 50% mitigation You ignore 20% Heavy armour user now has 40% mitigation Light armour user has 20% mitigation You ignore 20% Light armour user now has 16% mitigation I might be wrong but that's how i see it. Edited December 28, 2011 by Kabaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodatious Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 How much extra damage? I really want to go the rage line but feel that to be i schii cho form all the time takes so much away from the guarding of your healers in pvp. The skill schii cho mastery seams to be one of the KEY tallents in the tree but perhaps I am wrong? Does anyone have any hard numbers on what amount that will effect overall damage percentage wise... I am sure it can't be a 20 percent increase in damage. Thanks for any help... until we get a combat log, and a parser we have no way of knowing. However with that said, Rage is mostly focused on force attacks. The only non-force attack I could see them using is vicious slash/assault & obliterate if it is considered melee (i would guess it is force though). So imo it woun't translate to much of an increase in dps at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodatious Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 It will vary from target to target and will be more effective on heavy armour users than light. I'm pulling these numbers out of a hat but it probably goes something like : Heavy armour user has 50% mitigation You ignore 20% Heavy armour user now has 40% mitigation Light armour user has 20% mitigation You ignore 20% Light armour user now has 16% mitigation I might be wrong but that's how i see it. Are force attacks mitigated by armor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabaal Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 until we get a combat log, and a parser we have no way of knowing. However with that said, Rage is mostly focused on force attacks. The only non-force attack I could see them using is vicious slash/assault & obliterate if it is considered melee (i would guess it is force though). So imo it woun't translate to much of an increase in dps at all. Force attacks are kinetic damage, reduced by armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 It will vary from target to target and will be more effective on heavy armour users than light. I'm pulling these numbers out of a hat but it probably goes something like : Heavy armour user has 50% mitigation You ignore 20% Heavy armour user now has 40% mitigation Light armour user has 20% mitigation You ignore 20% Light armour user now has 16% mitigation I might be wrong but that's how i see it. Heavy armor users only have that much mitigation if they are in tank stance. Otherwise it's more in the 25% range (without talents). Heavy armor does not equal much mitigation advantage over the other armor types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodatious Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Force attacks are kinetic damage, reduced by armour. thnx, i figured they would be like inquisitor attacks... apparently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabaal Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Heavy armor users only have that much mitigation if they are in tank stance. Otherwise it's more in the 25% range (without talents). Heavy armor does not equal much mitigation advantage over the other armor types. The numbers weren't meant to be exact, just giving the guy an idea of how much would be reduced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akando Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 Interesting not nearly as much as I had thought. Might just pass on all the shcii cho tallents entirely ... though the alternative seams to be ravager then and that is not that benefitial. 10 seconds off a minute cooldown and 3 seconds off a 15 second cooldown. Maybe just schii cho form mastery for pve help and stance changing in pvp when one on one. Great replies thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quor Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Interesting not nearly as much as I had thought. Might just pass on all the shcii cho tallents entirely ... though the alternative seams to be ravager then and that is not that benefitial. 10 seconds off a minute cooldown and 3 seconds off a 15 second cooldown. Maybe just schii cho form mastery for pve help and stance changing in pvp when one on one. Great replies thanks! I'm not 100% sure it's additive, but best case scenario with Shii-Cho armor penetration is you'll have a total of 40% with the talent and 5 stacks of Sunder on a target. Worst case you have about 36% instead. Example - Target has 1000 armor. Shii-Cho talented ignores 20%, making target effective armor 800. Assuming additive, Sunder x5 would mean target has an effective armor of 600 when you are attacking it in Shii-Cho with 5x Sunder. That's the best case scenario. Worst case is that the Sunder or Shii-Cho armor debuff applies to the new armor value. So a target with a base armor of 1000 would be reduced to 800 by 5x Sunder, and then you would ignore 20% of 800, which comes out to 640 armor total, which is a 36% net armor reduction. Either way, it's still powerful. Even in the worst case you're still ignoring 36% of a targets armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solduios Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I'm not 100% sure it's additive, but best case scenario with Shii-Cho armor penetration is you'll have a total of 40% with the talent and 5 stacks of Sunder on a target. Worst case you have about 36% instead. Example - Target has 1000 armor. Shii-Cho talented ignores 20%, making target effective armor 800. Assuming additive, Sunder x5 would mean target has an effective armor of 600 when you are attacking it in Shii-Cho with 5x Sunder. That's the best case scenario. Worst case is that the Sunder or Shii-Cho armor debuff applies to the new armor value. So a target with a base armor of 1000 would be reduced to 800 by 5x Sunder, and then you would ignore 20% of 800, which comes out to 640 armor total, which is a 36% net armor reduction. Either way, it's still powerful. Even in the worst case you're still ignoring 36% of a targets armor. My guess is the armor reduction comes first than the sunders... also flat 20% reduction is huge no matter the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quor Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 My guess is the armor reduction comes first than the sunders... also flat 20% reduction is huge no matter the case... Probably. It's the same either way, which devalues the talent a little bit, but it's still a free 16% armor penetration on any target that has 5 sunders. Which is still quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akando Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Yes which is great for pve and I have decided to take the talent for sure. The problem was in pvp as I like to guard.... the major trade off. I dedided to pull from payback at any rate as that is extremely lack luster 10% every two minutes is not a game changer. Would rather have the armor mitigation for those times when I am in that stance. Thanks for all the replies it helped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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