SWTOR is less than a month old, wow is 7 years old. Why do people compare?

[RVampSetimo]

Let's keep it simple.

 

The game was build inside the world of the old Republic, it gone similar to KOTOR, this is the magic.

It's a game for fans, to people who like Star Wars and the previous RPG games.

 

Could you people stop complaining without a significant argument.

 

Men, we need to play as it's been developed. And stop Crying about "It could be just like..." or similar...cause it's not...it's original, and better.

 

Follow the greed, be a sith.

[Reecelol]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.1.1

 

I dare someone to find me a patch that didn't have bug fixes or a change to a system that seemed to not work the way it was intended?

 

the bug fixes are near the bottom of each page

 

i guess if you expect every game to be as bland/buggy/featureless as wow vanilla was 7 years ago i suppose this logic will work for you.

[Dathron]

i guess if you expect every game to be as bland/buggy/featureless as wow vanilla was 7 years ago i suppose this logic will work for you.

 

I said this because people seem to think wow on launch had 0 bugs..... and are complaining that swtor has bugs on launch.

[PhoenixStar]

i guess if you expect every game to be as bland/buggy/featureless as wow vanilla was 7 years ago i suppose this logic will work for you.

 

If it's so bland and buggy what are you doing here and what do you expect to change by the end of the month?

[Mordith]

"Give them time" That is the problem. A game should be very polished and ready to go with minimal problems. In this day and age of MMOs, the competitive landscape is huge. Do it right the first time or you loose the subs and they won't be back. I personally think they should have spent another year on development. It feels a bit rushed to me. In fact a lot of the issues that many any beta have been complaining about for months still isn't fixed. Just saying...

 

Yes the landscape is huge, but so is the complexity of today's coding methods and debugging. I see people say this exact same thing "ZOMG THIS GAME SHOULD BE JUST AS POLISHED/GOOD AS WOW IS TODAY!!!".

 

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

 

That's like saying that since WoW's had over 7 years to refine their game, debug their game, and further their content / character design, that every single developer should meet that same exact SEVEN YEAR STANDARD coming out the gate. And that's logistically IMPOSSIBLE.

 

A bit of news for you: If that's your attitude, then WoW's just down the road, go back to it. You'll be happier.

 

When Blizzard released their MMO in 2004, their network infrastructure was horribly flawed. We told them during Phase 2 and Phase 3 beta that certain actions would crash zones. We told them that collision was nonexistent in many dungeons, such as a problem in Stratholme where upon entering you would clip through the floor to the bottom of the zone (BELOW the dungeon proper) and die. If somehow you got lucky and that DIDN'T happen, then there was a very good chance that you would encounter a Z-axis aggro bug that would chain through every mob one level below you, and for some reason link aggro through the bone room.

 

Those bugs mentioned weren't fixed for SEVEN MONTHS, almost the time when they released Molten Core. The same QQ was seen as is now "ZOMG EVERQUEST'S DUNGEONS DON'T HAVE THIS BS SO WOW FAILS AND SHOULD BE AS GOOD AS EQ IS WITH OVER FIVE YEARS DEVELOPMENT!!"

 

But I guess its easy to just put on our fanboi blinders and proclaim that every element of TOR should be perfect out of the gate, when we have no clue how development works.

 

You play pro, so you know better than they do, amirite?

 

I for one am willing to give them a reasonable time frame. If they cant seem to resolve certain issues by then I'll move on most likely. But you and the majority who QQ here throw the baby out with the bathwater. Here's a solution: Go back to playing your perfect WoW, and come back when you hear that the game's as perfect as you want it to be. Which will probably be never, since you say in so many words that you want a WoW-esque game, that's NOT WoW. Ummmm......*boggle* O.o

Edited December 28, 2011 by Mordith

[poryan]

Because iPad 7 is completely brand new, but it doesn't have all the features that iPad 1 had, and it doesn't have the features that iPad 7 should have either. It's just incomplete. Yet, they put it on sell anyway.

 

Clear ?

 

That doesn't make it right, that makes it money-grubbing corporation capitalizing off of the ignorance, tolerance for in-adequate products, acceptance of being force-fed what we "need" and blaise passiveness of the masses. Clear?

 

We don't have to, as consumers, accept inferior products. If one is being handed to us, we have the right to complain.

[Kedemel]

The car analogy works just fine.

 

If you bought a new car a decade ago and are in the market to buy a new car now, you're not going to want to buy a car that has the same standard features of the car you bought ten years ago.

 

The genre as a whole has grown quite a bit in the past seven years, in large part because of what Blizzard has done with WoW. Some of you might not agree or like with what they've done to the game, but there's a reason why they've retained a number of subscriptions throughout the years. Even if those numbers are falling, they still have a playerbase in the millions.

 

As a company making a brand new MMO, you shouldn't look at your product and say, "Well, seven years ago it was OK." Imagine walking into a room of execs at Ford and saying that when presenting a new car design. It's not going to cut it.

 

My issue is that while BioWare did a great job with the voice overs and the story, it doesn't seem like they spent a lot of time on core features on what makes MMOs get their hold on it's playerbase.

 

Regardless, the story is enough to make me stick around for now. I'm enjoying the game and the stories, so kudos to the fellas for getting that right.

[Dathron]

Yes the landscape is huge, but so is the complexity of today's coding methods and debugging. I see people say this exact same thing "ZOMG THIS GAME SHOULD BE JUST AS POLISHED/GOOD AS WOW IS TODAY!!!".

 

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

 

That's like saying that since WoW's had over 7 years to refine their game, debug their game, and further their content / character design, that every single developer should meet that same exact SEVEN YEAR STANDARD coming out the gate. And that's logistically IMPOSSIBLE.

 

A bit of news for you: If that's your attitude, then WoW's just down the road, go back to it. You'll be happier.

 

When Blizzard released their MMO in 2004, their network infrastructure was horribly flawed. We told them during Phase 2 and Phase 3 beta that certain actions would crash zones. We told them that collision was nonexistent in many dungeons, such as a problem in Stratholme where upon entering you would clip through the floor to the bottom of the zone (BELOW the dungeon proper) and die. If somehow you got lucky and that DIDN'T happen, then there was a very good chance that you would encounter a Z-axis aggro bug that would chain through every mob one level below you, and for some reason link aggro through the bone room.

 

Those bugs mentioned weren't fixed for SEVEN MONTHS, almost the time when they released Molten Core. The same QQ was seen as is now "ZOMG EVERQUEST'S DUNGEONS DON'T HAVE THIS BS SO WOW FAILS AND SHOULD BE AS GOOD AS EQ IS WITH OVER FIVE YEARS DEVELOPMENT!!"

 

But I guess its easy to just put on our fanboi blinders and proclaim that every element of TOR should be perfect out of the gate, when we have no clue how development works.

 

You play pro, so you know better than they do, amirite?

 

I for one am willing to give them a reasonable time frame. If they cant seem to resolve certain issues by then I'll move on most likely. But you and the majority who QQ here throw the baby out with the bathwater. Here's a solution: Go back to playing your perfect WoW, and come back when you hear that the game's as perfect as you want it to be. Which will probably be never, since you say in so many words that you want a WoW-esque game, that's NOT WoW. Ummmm......*boggle* O.o

 

WTB thumbs up button for good forum comments

[DarthSeer]

People say wow has so many fetures and swtor is bad because it does not have them... wow has had 7 years to improve upon its self. Give Swtor a chance and time to put in the things your f***ing complaining about.... ¬.¬

 

WoW was not the first MMO nore was it original all WoW did was take the MMO template and improve upon it by removing things that were annoying (e.g crafting had a chance to fail) it did this with games Such as Ever Quest and so on.

 

SWTOR has done the same it has take the MMO TEMPLATE not copyed wow but taken the MMO TEMPLATE Which all MMO's use and removed useless stuff, ADDED its own stuff and improved upon existing stuff.

 

People need to remember WoW its self is a quoat un quoat "Clone" of the MMO's that came before it.

 

My final point. Who cares if it borrowed things from other games, it happens all the time in everything. just shut up, get on with the game and stop comparing it to WoW; an MMO thats long out lived its greatness WoW "died" along time ago and is just clinging onto life and dragging its self out to long. Its 7 gosh darn years old, its had its time at the top and has set a good standard for MMO's to go by and people should accept the fact its long out lived its awesomenes.

 

Seven years ago, MMOs were in a very different place to where they are today. The reason WOW has updated, the reason they've moved with the times, is to evolve and develop to represent the current expectations of the genre (I should add at this point I am not a WOW player).

 

It's like the mobile phone industry. If someone comes in manufacturing the kind of briefcase-brick you'd see back in the 80s, they'd be laughed out of the market. In the auto industry, if a new feature comes out which is popular, all new cars have it as standard. The same goes for mmos. There is a reason people are comparing TOR to WOW as it currently stands, because that is the current standard in mmo gaming.

 

I have to say, I'm still kind of on the fence about the game. I really enjoy playing it, and so I'm not going to go into a whole rant about how it will fail (I really hope it doesn't) but at the same time, there are a number of schooboy errors being made. The kind which are almost inexcusable - if the company had developed their game around the current mmo standard.

 

As it is, I'll give it a few months and see what happens. But as it stands, the game feels rushed, almost incomplete. It feels a great deal like a Cryptic Studios release, as I've said many times before, and that does trouble me deeply...

[GreyWolfSC]

The game has been in development for longer than the engine it uses has existed. At some point it appears someone "threw in the towel."

[Barracudastr]

The car analogy works just fine.

 

If you bought a new car a decade ago and are in the market to buy a new car now, you're not going to want to buy a car that has the same standard features of the car you bought ten years ago.

 

The genre as a whole has grown quite a bit in the past seven years, in large part because of what Blizzard has done with WoW. Some of you might not agree or like with what they've done to the game, but there's a reason why they've retained a number of subscriptions throughout the years. Even if those numbers are falling, they still have a playerbase in the millions.

 

As a company making a brand new MMO, you shouldn't look at your product and say, "Well, seven years ago it was OK." Imagine walking into a room of execs at Ford and saying that when presenting a new car design. It's not going to cut it.

 

My issue is that while BioWare did a great job with the voice overs and the story, it doesn't seem like they spent a lot of time on core features on what makes MMOs get their hold on it's playerbase.

 

Regardless, the story is enough to make me stick around for now. I'm enjoying the game and the stories, so kudos to the fellas for getting that right.

 

This.

 

Its not about wow its about the mmo genre in general.. New mmos are putting out similar features. New features have been developed over the years for mmo's in general to make the experience funner for everyone.

 

Swtor went back in time and was like ya this was cool back in 2000....

[Dathron]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.1.1

 

I dare someone to find me a patch that didn't have bug fixes or a change to a system that seemed to not work the way it was intended?

 

the bug fixes are near the bottom of each page

 

do it

[Chokis]

Those of you who are complaining so much, I'd like to remind you that you're not entitled to anything. BW is not your government, your employer, nor are they your mother. They have no responsibility to cater to your every whim. They provide a product and you, of your own volition, pay to use that product. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of the workings of a market economy should be able to get it through their head that, if they're not satisfied with said product, they can stop paying and therefore stop playing. That's what I did with WoW; I grew bored with it and stopped. It's as simple as that.

 

SWTOR is not like BW's single-player games; it's a living world and, as such, will keep changing as they receive feedback from the community. Of course it won't be perfect at launch (or ever). It's healthy to give suggestions and say what you do or don't like about the game; this will change it for the better. But there's no reason to get so hung up over this; nobody wants to hear sob stories about how you were so excited and then BW (who obviously hates kittens and makes small children cry) let you down. MMOs are not life - at least not for reasonable people. If they are for you, I implore you to seek help.

[Dathron]

lol again, i never said wow wasnt flawed. the swtor fanboy soapbox must be getting crowded.

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.1.1 7 years of bug fixes and new things implimented stop expecting a new game to be perfect at launch, give it time.

[Reecelol]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.1.1 7 years of bug fixes and new things implimented stop expecting a new game to be perfect at launch, give it time.

 

annnd again, i never said i expect it to be perfect at launch. but some key features i do expect to be there/better designed. you obviously just want to put words into peoples mouth and/or scream ITS NEW ITS NEW/ITS NOT WOW. so i think you and i are done probably.

[eloco]

You are looking at this the wrong way around. A new game, performs worse, and has less features and tools than a game that is 7 years old.

 

The bugs and the content I can forgive.

[PhoenixStar]

That isn't necesarily true. World of Warcraft became the best MMO and it is far from being about the journey.

 

Where this game goes is completely up to BioWare, but for it to be successful in the MMORPG genre long-term, it has to become more than KOTOR 3-15, or whatever number the developers threw out there.

 

Once again...WoW is not the "best" MMO. It is the most successful, and has the most players...because it's accessible to anyone with a computer.

 

WoW has never offered anything innovative since it's creation. Even instancing dungeons was an EQ feature released at it's peak(shortly before it's decline) that WoW simply improved upon.

 

And well spouting off at the mouth about what it takes to be successful in this industry is a joke because the truth is no one really knows. WoW threw all the stats off by valuing quantity over quality and creating a mass influx of new MMO players who had never even touched a PC game before let alone an MMORPG in their lives.

 

I can always spot someone who's first MMO was WoW by the way they post about it. I'll reiterate that WoW was not innovative nor was it the first to do anything aside from modify a few features that really were not a big deal one way or the other.

 

This.

 

Its not about wow its about the mmo genre in general.. New mmos are putting out similar features. New features have been developed over the years for mmo's in general to make the experience funner for everyone.

 

Swtor went back in time and was like ya this was cool back in 2000....

 

It's not about the genre, it is about WoW. WoW stagnated the entire genre with it's quality over quantity success. You want to know why you can't find a new game to peak your interest...well that's why. WoW perfected the way to hand you leftovers with a new name and publishers only care about reaching that same success rather than allowing game companies to produce new "risky" games that are actually creative and innovative.

 

WoW is the reason MMORPGs can't move forward. No that new car analogy doesn't fit.

 

At some point you'll wake up and understand that for MMORPGs to move forward WoW must be removed from everyone's mind because a cheap inexpensive game that can be played on anything will never be creative or innovative.

 

SWTOR at least offers a non-fantasy theme park that is "new" in terms of something different from the 7 years of WoW. With CONSTRUCTIVE criticism after the "new shiny" kids go away the game may add new and innovative modes of play. Right now it's cookie cutter and that's fine because if it kills WoW the genre can finally begin to move forward for once in seven freaking years.

Edited December 28, 2011 by PhoenixStar

[Reecelol]

You are looking at this the wrong way around. A new game, performs worse, and has less features and tools than a game that is 7 years old.

 

The bugs and the content I can forgive.

 

this person is doing it right.

[Dreossk]

this person is doing it right.

 

Exact. It's not about the bugs or the content, it's about the missing basic features like HD textures, day/night, swimming, housing, post-creation character customization, environment interaction, collisions, liberty, RP tools, etc.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Dreossk

[PhoenixStar]

You are looking at this the wrong way around. A new game, performs worse, and has less features and tools than a game that is 7 years old.

 

The bugs and the content I can forgive.

 

In what ways does this game perform worse than WoW? I see some of you keep posting this but you don't expand or say how you just stomp your feet a few times in each thread.

 

Explain?

[Darnite]

WoW doesn't suck. Come on. Its the most successful MMO period. Making that statement is just plain silly and you sound like an idiot making that statement. I play this game and still play WoW to this date. You might not like WoW but it doesn't suck. Hell Bioware used a lot of ideas from WoW in SWTOR.

 

And WoW used a lot of things found in NWN, EQ, UO, and the list goes on. Sorry, being a WoW player for 7 years myself it's a dead and boring game now. The planned release that WoW has is a copy of a few other things.. cough... cough Pokemon. Op I support your message, and I couldn't have said it any better. Hey fanboys flame on!

Edited December 28, 2011 by Darnite

[Kedemel]

Once again...WoW is not the "best" MMO. It is the most successful, and has the most players...because it's accessible to anyone with a computer.

 

WoW has never offered anything innovative since it's creation. Even instancing dungeons was an EQ feature released at it's peak(shortly before it's decline) that WoW simply improved upon.

 

And well spouting off at the mouth about what it takes to be successful in this industry is a joke because the truth is no one really knows. WoW threw all the stats off by valuing quantity over quality and creating a mass influx of new MMO players who had never even touched a PC game before let alone an MMORPG in their lives.

 

I can always spot someone who's first MMO was WoW by the way they post about it. I'll reiterate that WoW was not innovative nor was it the first to do anything aside from modify a few features that really were not a big deal one way or the other.

 

To clear some things up: my first MMO was Ultima Online. Then I played Star Wars Galaxies, followed by a free trial of EVE. Then I decided to play World of Warcraft, then dabbled in City of Heroes a little bit. Saying you can spot someone who's first MMO was WoW by the way they post about it is as foolish as saying that you can tell a person's character by the color of their skin.

 

Being the "best" can easily be measured by success and to date, WoW is the most successful MMO.

[PhoenixStar]

And WoW used a lot of things found NWN, EQ, UO, and the list goes on. Sorry, being a WoW player for 7 years myself, it's a dead and boring game now. The planned release that WoW has is a copy of a few other things.. cough... cough Pokemon. Op I support your message, and I couldn't have said it any better. Hey fanboys flame on!

 

But everything WoW does is new and innovative. It's not copying Pokemon because WoW came before Pokemon and WoW invented kung-fu panda bears.

 

To clear some things up: my first MMO was Ultima Online. Then I played Star Wars Galaxies, followed by a free trial of EVE. Then I decided to play World of Warcraft, then dabbled in City of Heroes a little bit. Saying you can spot someone who's first MMO was WoW by the way they post about it is as foolish as saying that you can tell a person's character by the color of their skin.

 

Being the "best" can easily be measured by success and to date, WoW is the most successful MMO.

 

And with such a long history of MMO playing what did you find new and innovative about WoW? Don't worry I'll wait. Take your time.

Edited December 28, 2011 by PhoenixStar

[DarthSeer]

In what ways does this game perform worse than WoW? I see some of you keep posting this but you don't expand or say how you just stomp your feet a few times in each thread.

 

Explain?

 

You're missing the point of the argument, or choosing to ignore it. The point is that much as we love TOR, it is missing basic features which have become staple in ANY mmo. If you want details just search the forums.

 

Oh wait, there's no search function...

[Zeodic]

Because iPad 7 is completely brand new, but it doesn't have all the features that iPad 1 had, and it doesn't have the features that iPad 7 should have either. It's just incomplete. Yet, they put it on sell anyway.

 

Clear ?

 

your example is full of fail ...

 

You took an item researched by the same company, developed by the same company and maintained by the same company...

 

You are trying to compare that scenario to Blizzard and Bioware, two different companies and thankfully two different products.