Stacking of sniper AoE - worse than stacking of smash

[Icykill_]

While the smash era was bad, I made a living as Vengeance spec by hunting down and killing smash monkeys, because they were easy to kill. Literally all they had going for them was the burst. The same cannot be said for snipers and mercs in their current state, as not only do they pump out ridiculous amounts of damage, but they are extremely difficult to kill.

 

I did the same on my Madness Sorc

[Kazz_Devlin]

I just don't understand why BW thinks that it's a great idea to go completely over board with such absurd styles like this one, or smash, or sorc healer gods etc. Sure, some people will do a fotm reroll, but loads of others will play less because they don't want to waste their time with futile attempts to fight the supermen of the month. At the end, these things won't increase profit, or the game's popularity, but rather urge people to unsub.

 

:mad:

 

i'm there now. Do the really think open world PVP without a class balance pass will be enjoyable??

[Icykill_]

i'm there now. Do the really think open world PVP without a class balance pass will be enjoyable??

 

What classes work in 8 man don't all work in Arena. Each WZ also favours certain classes. So what works in traditional pvp will not translate to OWPVP. Every class also has strengths and weaknesses, I think you'll find certain classes that are currently considered weak (Sorc DPS) will be able to do fairly well in an Open World scenario. The classes that will dominate OWPVP will be the same ones since launch, stealths. They've always had a massive advantage in that area. But with their new total blackout passive ability they will be the gods of gank, pulling mobs into you when you have low health, killing you when you've low health after killing someone else, etc.

Snipers will have a hard time in OWPVP because of mobility. They are great guards or crowd control in a big fight, but in OWPVP they will have a distinct disadvantage with mobility.

Mercs will probably be the only class they excels in all forms of pvp in the game. But I don't think they will be as god like in OWPVP because that realm of pvp belongs to stealths and always has. Why else do you think there are so many lvling up at moment.

I fully expect nerf Sins and Operative threads and QQ about gank squads when OWPVP starts up. This has happened over and over in this game since launch with anything open world. It's why OWPVP died. Give it a few months for the novelty to wear off and people will stop doing the pvp aspect of this new area.

[Elusive_Thing]

What about when you have 4 Sorcs spamming Force Storm?

Okay, this and the other thread both imply you don't really understand the nature of the problem. Just the "Sins have no trouble with Snipers" notion showed that. Anyway, let's try to explain this: Snipers lose no DPS, because they don't channel the probe and it's a part of their rotation.

[Icykill_]

Okay, this and the other thread both imply you don't really understand the nature of the problem. Just the "Sins have no trouble with Snipers" notion showed that. Anyway, let's try to explain this: Snipers lose no DPS, because they don't channel the probe and it's a part of their rotation.

 

LoL, I understand that you're QQing. Enough said.

[Elusive_Thing]

LoL, I understand that you're QQing. Enough said.

Yes, I absolutely think Engineering is overtuned. The role Plasma Probe has in the Engineering rotation makes the radius buff amazing for PvP while the slow effect makes it frustrating for the others. Combined with the new defenses (though I think Snipers needed a defense buff) it makes the spec easily the best 1 vs. 1 spec in the game and essentially immune to dying against any melee enemies. At least you can CC your way past some Merc DCDs.

[Icykill_]

Yes, I absolutely think Engineering is overtuned. The role Plasma Probe has in the Engineering rotation makes the radius buff amazing for PvP while the slow effect makes it frustrating for the others. Combined with the new defenses (though I think Snipers needed a defense buff) it makes the spec easily the best 1 vs. 1 spec in the game and essentially immune to dying against any melee enemies. At least you can CC your way past some Merc DCDs.

 

I've noticed not one of you guys calling for a nerf is willing to tell us what classes you are playing that cause snipers to be a problem for you.

 

I'll start taking the QQ seriously when people start telling us what classes they are playing and having an issue on. Then we can have a proper discussion and not theory craft.

[Stummt]

LoL, I understand that you're QQing. Enough said.

 

There is no other spammable ability like plasma probe. It is a large area denial skill in pvp.

 

The probe stays even if you...

... interrupt the sniper (not even channeled)

... kick the sniper

... pull the sniper

... stun/mezz the sniper

... kill the sniper

That's ridiculous.

 

Nearly all other dmg-AoE can be countered by one of the ways above. The only exception that comes in my mind is toxic haze.

I have no problem with the dmg or the slow if the ability had some regulation in it's avaibility/up-time.

[Elusive_Thing]

I've noticed not one of you guys calling for a nerf is willing to tell us what classes you are playing that cause snipers to be a problem for you.

 

I'll start taking the QQ seriously when people start telling us what classes they are playing and having an issue on. Then we can have a proper discussion and not theory craft.

In a descending order of priority: Deception, Corruption, Concealment, AP. For Corruption the biggest problem is trying to cap in Novare, so nothing particularly nasty there.

[Sargrith]

I've noticed not one of you guys calling for a nerf is willing to tell us what classes you are playing that cause snipers to be a problem for you.

 

I'll start taking the QQ seriously when people start telling us what classes they are playing and having an issue on. Then we can have a proper discussion and not theory craft.

 

 

What class someone plays as a main hardly matters. Stacking AoE slows with damage are tough on melee. I main really two people one a guardian (I play both tank and dps, though mostly dps) and a sharp shooter gunslinger. Don't care much as a gunslinger, though I am way behind dps wise and survivabilty to sab gunslinger, I know because when i swap specs I can see first hand how easy it is to dominate melee classes. My guardian has ever speed boost and snare break he can, it doesn't matter. I get pushed back two or three times, slowed the entire time and unless they screw up big by giving their back to a wall I can't get in on them for more then a hit or two at best. Even if they screw up and plant near a wall that I can use to prevent getting knocked back they roll away eventually and i am stuck slow walking after them...in fire.

[Sargrith]

Two classes I struggle against as a vigilance guardian are the dps Commando and the Sab GS.

 

But you can adjust what you do to mitigate the power of the Commando.

 

Nothing you do as a guardian makes fighting a Sab GS seem possible. You have your snare break but its a field of snare additionally he has a ranged snare he can throw at you often. He has multiple knock backs which you can't defend against and which force you to once again slow walk back to him. You can line of sight him to a degree but to do damage eventually you need to close which means fire and facing his high burst damage. Your own defenses are less useful then his even, and he has CC immunity often while you have no one to get it.....The only thing worst for me then a Sab GS is trying to pressure a Sage healer solo.....while my team runs around saying focus on the healer but they are doing anything but that.....

[Vember]

I can kill tanks in tank gear faster than I can get a sniper down to 50% health, and i'm not killing that sniper solo. Edited April 5, 2017 by Vember

[BaineOs]

The probe stays even if you...

 

... kill the sniper

That's ridiculous.

 

If you're seeing that, then it's probably a bug. This used to be true in the 1.0 era if my memory serves, but it didn't stay in for long as they removed it.

[Thaladan]

since at least 3.0, the aoe diseappears when the (sniper) owner is killed..

 

as always it was better before because 18sec duration and it remained even if you were dead...that was good for defend.

 

but all are whining now about plasma probe...ridiculous. there's so many other big issues in pvp.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Thaladan

[mmmbuddah]

Yes, I absolutely think Engineering is overtuned. The role Plasma Probe has in the Engineering rotation makes the radius buff amazing for PvP while the slow effect makes it frustrating for the others. Combined with the new defenses (though I think Snipers needed a defense buff) it makes the spec easily the best 1 vs. 1 spec in the game and essentially immune to dying against any melee enemies. At least you can CC your way past some Merc DCDs.

 

I can give you a few.

 

Vanguard Tank, trying to get to ANY enemies with a spam of plasmaprobe, once your jump is used is near impossible.

 

Scoundrels. Even double rolling will not get you out of 2 well placed plasma probes, leaving you dead in the water.

 

Guardian...I really dont need to say anything there.

 

HELL even playing another spec of sniper is a royal pain in the *** because due to the cover mechanic you just have to take the AOE for the full duration if you want to have any chance of fighting the attacking engi sniper.

 

The class needs a 9 second cooldown, it would not effect its rotation at all. Saying " oh it will hurt their rotation because people can get out of it too easily " would be like saying " interrupting a mercs boltstorm is bad for their rotation because it interrupts it" That is kind of the point. Rotations should be interruptable.

Edited April 5, 2017 by mmmbuddah

[Balameb]

I can give you a few.

 

Vanguard Tank, trying to get to ANY enemies with a spam of plasmaprobe, once your jump is used is near impossible.

 

Scoundrels. Even double rolling will not get you out of 2 well placed plasma probes, leaving you dead in the water.

 

Guardian...I really dont need to say anything there.

 

HELL even playing another spec of sniper is a royal pain in the *** because due to the cover mechanic you just have to take the AOE for the full duration if you want to have any chance of fighting the attacking engi sniper.

 

The class needs a 9 second cooldown, it would not effect its rotation at all. Saying " oh it will hurt their rotation because people can get out of it too easily " would be like saying " interrupting a mercs boltstorm is bad for their rotation because it interrupts it" That is kind of the point. Rotations should be interruptable.

 

I agree.

I vote for 9 sec Cooldown AND only 40% slow. The 70% is just too much, and as it is not a 100% root, full resolve is ignored. I think only VG/PT tanks have a similar skill but we cannot target, is reduces ACC instead of DMG and has a cooldown of... wait for it........ 60 SECONDS!!! The only other skill that reduces speed an is kind of spammable is from the Jugg and is 40%. So, 9 sec and 40% slow keeping the damage and the range seems fair without changing the rotation.

Even with that Juggs/Guardians and PT/VG will still die in "most" 1v1, but that already happens with any sniper because they have more tools to keep you away that the first to get close, simple as that.

[Vember]

I vote sniper gets no escapes, one long cooldown low DR shielding ability, and no immunity to leaps or CC of any kind, ability to wear heavy armor, and your range reduced to 4-10m. Edited April 5, 2017 by Vember

[AlCorazon]

I vote sniper gets no escapes, one long cooldown low DR shielding ability, and no immunity to leaps or CC of any kind, ability to wear heavy armor, and your range reduced to 4-10m.

 

i detect sarcasm

Edited April 6, 2017 by AlCorazon

[Alex_York]

Stacking any class is bad. How about a bunch of Sorc healers or a 4 man Sin death squad? Stop asking for nerfs based on class stacking. There is no basis for it.

Sins are sh**t haven't you heard?

[Icykill_]

Two classes I struggle against as a vigilance guardian are the dps Commando and the Sab GS.

 

But you can adjust what you do to mitigate the power of the Commando.

 

Nothing you do as a guardian makes fighting a Sab GS seem possible. You have your snare break but its a field of snare additionally he has a ranged snare he can throw at you often. He has multiple knock backs which you can't defend against and which force you to once again slow walk back to him. You can line of sight him to a degree but to do damage eventually you need to close which means fire and facing his high burst damage. Your own defenses are less useful then his even, and he has CC immunity often while you have no one to get it.....The only thing worst for me then a Sab GS is trying to pressure a Sage healer solo.....while my team runs around saying focus on the healer but they are doing anything but that.....

 

Yes guardians have issues. They need a mobility buff, not nerf sniper

Edited April 7, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

Sins are sh**t haven't you heard?

 

OMG are you kidding? Please tell me that's a joke.

[Ottoattack]

I vote sniper gets no escapes, one long cooldown low DR shielding ability, and no immunity to leaps or CC of any kind, ability to wear heavy armor, and your range reduced to 4-10m.

 

You mean become a PT

[Icykill_]

So far I've seen 2 ledgitmate classes that have problems and two I disagree with. I don't think Sins or Operatives are having issues, especially people who know what they are doing and not trying to face tank a sniper.

 

Instead of asking for nerfs on Guardians or VGs, how about asking for a small mobility buff.

 

If you nerf snipers then the other classes that have no issues with them will seem OP for a sniper to fight. You also have to consider who is going to counter the Mercs

 

A lightning Sorc perspective could easily sit here and call for nerfs to all other classes dps, especially burst classes. But that's stupid because all they need is a buff. I could go on and pick every class(spec) I play, which is most, and pick things about correspondingly classes that cause them issues. As I pointed out, each class, especially specs, have strengths, weaknesses and roles to play.

Bioware don't balance any so it's a straight up even fight in a 1v1 situation. It is what it is and I believe it makes the game more dynamic because you need to use different tactics and strategy for seperate classes.

I can tell you straight up that it takes a good player to kill me in a reasonable time 1v1 on my Lightning Sorc and I don't even need to be as good as they are. It normally takes 2-3 focusing me at once, which is a tactic people have worked out when attacking Sorcs. Most solo guys just give up because it's taking too long.

If you want to kill a healer, tank or Merc in a reasonable time, you work in tandem with others and focus.

That is really no different to attacking snipers. If you get 2 Sins working in tandem that know what they are doing, then the sniper will die easier than a Sorc.

 

As it stands, I don't think any class needs a nerf, not even Mercs. But some classes need buffs on mobility or dps.

 

Dps Sorc needs a dps buff, especially lightning which only needs a single target burst buff (not AOE). Even though they're hard to kill, they will hardly every kill any other class of equal skill.

Jugg/guardian needs a mobility buff

PT needs another breaker

Some other different classes specs need buffs to bring them to a similar lvl as the rest of their class.

 

I agree in sentiment that a stack of snipers is terrible. But it's not different to a stack of healers, a stack of tanks, a stack of stealth, a stack Mercs/Maras/Juggs..

More than anything, stacking is the problem here, it doesn't matter the class.

 

I've said it over the years and I'll say it again. People need to stop calling for nerfs, need to learn tactics and strategy, need to pick a class that suits their abilities or style of play, need to learn that class properly, need to learn team work and not try to 1v1 every thing (ie focus tactics) and lastly need to start pvping pre lvl 20 (without XP boost). Waiting till you get to 70 or starting to pvp late after coasting through piss easy PVE content does not give you the skill required to play that class properly in pvp, even if you are good on other classes.

I'm sure some of you do all of that, but let's face it, the skill lvl in pvp is extremely low and getting worse. Blame Arena and the dead art of objective pvp, because I get the feeling it's objective pvp you are all complaining about and that means stop death matching and if you can't kill a class, learn to neutralise it. You don't need to kill everything to win objective pvp.

Most of the time it's the invidual player thats OP and it doesn't matter what class they are on.

 

Some of you have finally stated what classes you are playing and having an issue with, now tell us if it's ranked or objective pvp.

[Icykill_]

I agree.

I vote for 9 sec Cooldown AND only 40% slow. The 70% is just too much, and as it is not a 100% root, full resolve is ignored. I think only VG/PT tanks have a similar skill but we cannot target, is reduces ACC instead of DMG and has a cooldown of... wait for it........ 60 SECONDS!!! The only other skill that reduces speed an is kind of spammable is from the Jugg and is 40%. So, 9 sec and 40% slow keeping the damage and the range seems fair without changing the rotation.

Even with that Juggs/Guardians and PT/VG will still die in "most" 1v1, but that already happens with any sniper because they have more tools to keep you away that the first to get close, simple as that.

 

Where do you get these metrics from? 9 sec CD and 40% slow. Where is the data that helps you decide that. You can't compare it to other classes because other classes are completely different. You are just pulling numbers out of thin air because you don't know how that affects every other class when you nerf something. When they nerf or buff something, all other classes are also affected in some way, it's why they are never able to get the balance just right.

Also just because you can't 1v1 something and kill it, doesn't mean it needs a nerf.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Icykill_

[Elusive_Thing]

So far I've seen 2 ledgitmate classes that have problems and two I disagree with. I don't think Sins or Operatives are having issues, especially people who know what they are doing and not trying to face tank a sniper. .

Just to clarify, you don't think Sins and Operatives have issues against Engineering Snipers?