MrHotter Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Point 5 is completely wrong. Go try Warhammer. That was a game where it was fun to PvP from level 1 and most people leveled with only PvP. It sucked when you got to the last tier and had to play against the people who spent hundereds of hours farming rep (and rep gear). That made the game less fun when you realized that you needed to have one character and stick with it if you wanted to be competative in the end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFishes Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Point 5 is completely wrong. Go try Warhammer. That was a game where it was fun to PvP from level 1 and most people leveled with only PvP. It sucked when you got to the last tier and had to play against the people who spent hundereds of hours farming rep (and rep gear). That made the game less fun when you realized that you needed to have one character and stick with it if you wanted to be competative in the end game. Read all of point 5... Down at the end... I infer how BW has already eluded to the fact that 50's will be in their own tier VERY soon because right now, the system in place is to allow for short queue times and to let everyone experience what is to come... As for bringing up W:AR, Emperor M.F. Punjab (yes, I had the emperor title) Goblin Shaman V.P. of Mergers and Aquisitions Calamitous Intent Ostermark RP-PvP Greens is da BEST! Red ones go faster WAAAAAAAGH! edit: And the big point was that it wasn't the level 50's in the Warzones, but rather the expertise gear they wear... Edited December 31, 2011 by TheFishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordresh Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Good post, I agree with all of them except point 3. While I don't personally think that sorcerers/sages are overpowered. (I think my marauder is pretty damn strong and does reasonably well against these and other classes.) But while all your other points have a good explanation on why it is working as intended and I agree with them. Point 3 just assumes that people are basing their complaint entirely on an animation for some reason, while it could be any number of things. Still good post, lets hope it stops some of the needless whining on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Instead of going into this at GREAT length, I'll state simple facts and you can decide for yourself... Sorcs have, as CC... 1 Electrocute - Instant cast 4 second stun 2 Whirlwind - Castable Mezz 3 Overload - PBAoE Knockback 4 Force Slow - Instant slow 5 Force Lightning (kinda) - 3 second Channeled Slow And that's it... So Sorcs have 5, (operatives are the highest with 6 base I believe...) and I can barely call Force Lightning a CC... You sir, as a sentinel/marauder, do not have a push/pull mechanic, and it's because you have the single greatest single target output of any of the classes, coupled with a Stealth mechanic, AND a Charge mechanic... So right there, you're the ball carrier's biggest threat, you get stunned, slowed and knocked off the catwalk, and then you're right back in the fight with a full Resolve bar... Any other questions? A 2 second root cannot be compared to an 8 second stun. Force Slow is instant and *ranged* and no, the Sentinel/Marauder doesn't have the single greatest single target output because that is mitigated by the need to stay onto a target and not be stunned/mezzed/knocked back (all of which conveniently the Sorcerer can do) as for a Stealth mechanic, 4 seconds of Stealth is an aggro dump and if specced a method out of a snare or root, that is about it. A charge mechanic, might I add, that can be countered by a knock back. Also, don't forget the Sorcerer's knock back also roots the target. As for your incorrect statement of "And then you're back in the fight with a full Resolve bar..." Hardly. I'm usually dead after being stunned. After being knocked back I'm usually running around the pit because I can't get LoS on someone to Force Leap back up to the catwalk. After being mezzed I am back in the fight, yes, but the enemy has already scored so there is little point. I am not the biggest threat to the ball carrier. The biggest threat to them is being knocked into the fire/acid or CC'ed in the fire, as that kills them far faster than I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoXxX Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 A 2 second root cannot be compared to an 8 second stun. Force Slow is instant and *ranged* and no, the Sentinel/Marauder doesn't have the single greatest single target output because that is mitigated by the need to stay onto a target and not be stunned/mezzed/knocked back (all of which conveniently the Sorcerer can do) as for a Stealth mechanic, 4 seconds of Stealth is an aggro dump and if specced a method out of a snare or root, that is about it. A charge mechanic, might I add, that can be countered by a knock back. Also, don't forget the Sorcerer's knock back also roots the target. As for your incorrect statement of "And then you're back in the fight with a full Resolve bar..." Hardly. I'm usually dead after being stunned. After being knocked back I'm usually running around the pit because I can't get LoS on someone to Force Leap back up to the catwalk. After being mezzed I am back in the fight, yes, but the enemy has already scored so there is little point. I am not the biggest threat to the ball carrier. The biggest threat to them is being knocked into the fire/acid or CC'ed in the fire, as that kills them far faster than I can. Electrocute is a 4 sec stun. The knockback only roots if it is talented. And I'm pretty sure the biggest threat to the ball carrier is the ball itself. As it says, "Hey everyone come smash my face in!" Also force charge is amazing for intercepting the ball carrier, stop wasting it on a random guy standing on the upper tier. And make sure to position yourself so the knockback pushes you along the catwalk not off it. On another note about AoE's. Well force storm in particular, it is great for making a healer panic. Also makes that pack of goons following your ball carrier rethink what they are doing, or keeps a group off a node. I do agree that if all you are doing is AoE'ing or Tab+DoT you will see a high damage output but you will down far less people. I usually find the person being targeted by others and help burn them down. Focus fire will always put more people in the death box than random fighting. Honestly I notice a big difference in the effectiveness between classes at each level. It seems at around lvl 44-45 all classes finally hit equal ground, and pvp seems balanced. 50's with xpertise are very troublesome if it is a premade group, but solo they can be worked over just like anyone else when focused. Very good post OP, a lot of the problems will fix themselves as the playerbase levels out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Electrocute is a 4 sec stun. The knockback only roots if it is talented. And I'm pretty sure the biggest threat to the ball carrier is the ball itself. As it says, "Hey everyone come smash my face in!" Also force charge is amazing for intercepting the ball carrier, stop wasting it on a random guy standing on the upper tier. And make sure to position yourself so the knockback pushes you along the catwalk not off it. I don't see you telling that to the OP (using the "it has to be talented" argument that is) as he stated that the Sentinel has all of this Crowd Control when two of our 5 possible CC's, which he counted, both used Talent points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noeatnosleep Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I for one would like to welcome Emperor Punjab as our new overlord. I second this statement and bow in awe of the Great and Mighty and Glorious and Sanctioned and Omniciant High Emperor and Lord of All Punjab the Magnificent. /bow /bow /bow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurveyorOfTruth Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Ok I'm going to go a little OT here... But these forums remind me of that South Park episode, "Human Cent-Ipad", where basically Steve Jobs' new innovation is a human tablet that will read EULAs for you. Even after showing off his new toy, the human cent-Ipad was still unable to read the contract that came with the human cent-Ipad itself. I'm just saying after a bueatifully thought out (and written) post like this, people are still creating the same QQ threads, somehow thinking theirs is more substanial. *sigh* It must be true, people just don't read anymore. /OT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurveyorOfTruth Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 /bump How did this thread get to page 2? Maybe if people read things, the forums wouldn't be so effing cluttered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallian Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 /bump How did this thread get to page 2? Maybe if people read things, the forums wouldn't be so effing cluttered. Sadly, people don't read any more. In another thread about RP-PVE vs RP-PVP, after 3 pages of hashing back and forth, we still get people who look at the title, and post whats effectively a quote of the 2nd post. Also, bump bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFishes Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Good post, I agree with all of them except point 3. While I don't personally think that sorcerers/sages are overpowered. (I think my marauder is pretty damn strong and does reasonably well against these and other classes.) But while all your other points have a good explanation on why it is working as intended and I agree with them. Point 3 just assumes that people are basing their complaint entirely on an animation for some reason, while it could be any number of things. Still good post, lets hope it stops some of the needless whining on this forum. This was totally based upon the fact that all I had seen for a while was "NERF LIGHTNING!!!" Threads... /sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFishes Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Sadly, people don't read any more. In another thread about RP-PVE vs RP-PVP, after 3 pages of hashing back and forth, we still get people who look at the title, and post whats effectively a quote of the 2nd post. Also, bump bump Isn't it sad that it keeps happening though? 2 lines in (first line was the title...) "Oh, I know what this is about! I totally don't have to read what people said!!!" /sigh again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drin-King Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Agreed on all points, saving that having played a Sage, I do think sage/sorc is a little much. And believe me, it's not because all of my Sage abilities look like lightning. That said, I've only gotten one to 22, so it may even out. In that case, they probably just get a few too many good things a little too fast (opposite of the Jedi guardian problem.) 22. Trust me. By 30 you'll be tearing your hair out when a marauder can leap to you and stick it to you in 12 seconds flat, and snipers are firing 5k crits while you press tk throw for 1.8k, and channel 300 dmg ticks of your main telekinesis ability. And don't talk to me about kiting. Count the number of instant cast abilities you have that actually do something. Can only run around kiting with *****t dmg dots for so long before another marauder sees you looking like a headless chicken and sh*ts on you. Edited January 2, 2012 by Drin-King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFishes Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 22. Trust me. By 30 you'll be tearing your hair out when a marauder can leap to you and stick it to you in 12 seconds flat, and snipers are firing 5k crits while you press tk throw for 1.8k, and channel 300 dmg ticks of your main telekinesis ability. And don't talk to me about kiting. Count the number of instant cast abilities you have that actually do something. Can only run around kiting with *****t dmg dots for so long before another marauder sees you looking like a headless chicken and sh*ts on you. And this has been most of the problem with people complaining pre-50 about class balance... Like I keep saying, different classes bloom at different times... and it seems that whoever blooms last hits hardest... Marauders are the death man... They hit SO hard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkshinoda Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I don't find sorcs to be "OP", the thing with sorcs is that so gosh darn many people play them (16% on release rolled a sorc/Assassin) source: http://swtorprogress.com/members.php (This is a bit outdated now but it was relevant upon early access and straight after release) Sorc's are easily handled solo if you are not completely brain dead. Also liked the post. plus uno! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardiansage Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 There are some small inbalances between mirrored classes that will prob be fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorez Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 While opening up cross server PvP can help queue times, it's unnecessary in this instance. Huttball already serves that purpose... All cross server PvP would do at this point is kill the sense of community that comes from murdering people you recognize on a regular basis... The best way to foster this rivalry is to implement server specific forum pages... Please? Pretty please??? Quoted for truthiness. Game needs server forums. Not nearly enough smacktalk. Probably help foster the server communities too.. but needs more smacktalk ! ;P Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphen Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Please add: Having to reform a group after every group warzone que. This needs to be fixed and deserves any hate that it gets. Hey, I like to reform groups after every Warzone! On more serious note. Totally agree with the Quoted and OP on most of the points. Smugglers have the most CC, or at least it feels eternal when you are stuck in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphen Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Quoted for truthiness. Game needs server forums. Not nearly enough smacktalk. Probably help foster the server communities too.. but needs more smacktalk ! ;P Cheers This x Kajibilionzilliondafillion! Organizing server Events, website urls for server and alike would be great! Lets see if it makes it in by next patch. It's not even hard, takes about 30 minutes to set this up, maybe additional 15-30minutes to think of a Icon and add some announcements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFishes Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Is anyone still amazed that there are 50,000 posts about class imbalance, 50's in WZ's, Unsubbing, and basically everything that has been covered in this post even since the post was made? Dear bioware, Please send the message that while you appreciate the input, people need to consolidate. Put their posts that have the same topics (sometimes even the same title) into one spam garbage thread so that those of us who would like to constructively talk about pvp and the systems that are already in place have an easier time doing so... Screw it... Make me an admin and I'll see to it personally... Thanks! E.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallian Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Is anyone still amazed that there are 50,000 posts about class imbalance, 50's in WZ's, Unsubbing, and basically everything that has been covered in this post even since the post was made? Dear bioware, Please send the message that while you appreciate the input, people need to consolidate. Put their posts that have the same topics (sometimes even the same title) into one spam garbage thread so that those of us who would like to constructively talk about pvp and the systems that are already in place have an easier time doing so... Screw it... Make me an admin and I'll see to it personally... Thanks! E.P. They be trying, I've had a couple of threads I posted in closed with a comment that there is another thread about it, and a link to the thread. Takes time, tho, and there are more artards posting than mods locking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFishes Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 And so what is with people comparing SWTOR to WoW as far as pvp goes? Let's look at SWTOR vs WoW (in its first year of release)... People just seemed brainwashed anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFishes Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Just went back and read my original post... Yup, still relevent... E.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFishes Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Are you all still going to keep posting about these things after the patch? For one more day, still relevant... so /bump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFishes Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 STOP POSTING ABOUT THIS STUFF!!! REALLY!!! plzkkthx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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