The poor business model of sub perks.

[HuaRya]

This is where Bethesda gets it right where EAware fails:

 

Example: Fallout 4

 

You can purchase all their DLC expansions a la cart or you can purchase a Season Pass and get it for free. Bethesda/Activision knows people like me will probably end up buying all the content individually because I was busy at the time.

 

I know the EAware kids are looking at their watches and salivating toward that 5 o'clock happy hour in austin's trendy booze district but if they could stay an hour or so after work and package the HK mission and sell it in the cartel market for $25 bucks they can come into work the next day slightly hung over and see that there were multiples of purchases....

Edited February 3, 2017 by HuaRya
grammar

[ivanhedgehog]

That's not a fair comparison. It's more like the owner of the Walking Dead series producing a limited edition DVD collection for Season 2 that has an extra behind the scenes featurette and only selling it for a few months. If you didn't buy it then, too bad, you missed out, but you can still buy the regular DVD set just fine (which for TOR would be all the existing expansion chapters, which you can play just fine without the bonus chapter).

 

So the OP is like the guy who goes into Best Buy a year after the limited edition DVD set stopped being available and proceeds to throw a fit because he can't get the limited edition DVD set anymore, because he wanted it now!

 

Your are wrong with that. with a limited edition dvd you can still watch season 2 on the regular release. new customers will NEVER be able to see the story locked in bw's previous perk. In a franchise that is all about story, this is unforgivable. not getting a pet, mount or companion is no where near as big a deal as leaving a hole where story should be. Again, I have access to it myself, but new customers do not. which I feel is a huge mistake for bw to make. That is my opinion, which differs from yours and others. I am not upset at you or anyone else over this, I just feel they made a mistake. Not much either of us can do about it anyway.

[Vyerix]

For most bonus content I think it should stay for those that earned it. As for the Shroud of Memory bonus mission. It is fun to play and think it should be put on Cartel Market as an account wide unlock after 6 months from release. Make it 2500cc or whatever and that way those that earned it for free are happy. Those that didn't and want to play can now buy access to it.

 

I would not do this for any companions or such. Just any possible future bonus missions like SoM.

[Nothing_Shines]

For most bonus content I think it should stay for those that earned it. As for the Shroud of Memory bonus mission. It is fun to play and think it should be put on Cartel Market as an account wide unlock after 6 months from release. Make it 2500cc or whatever and that way those that earned it for free are happy. Those that didn't and want to play can now buy access to it.

 

I would not do this for any companions or such. Just any possible future bonus missions like SoM.

 

No. Not for $$. Not for CC. People can either build a flux capacitor or watch it on YouTube.

[Ratajack]

Please explain how I am making an arguement against a person?

 

You don't have a point lol, your "point" is that because this is what it is in american football, this is what it should be with SWTOR, I then presented a case where your arguement would be similiar.

 

I am blatantly saying, I want non-long time subs to be rewarded with the same oppertunities as long time subs, even if it means it costs me more then a sub reward, meaning I'd have to pay real money to get it.

 

I don't for the life of me, get how people can be so selfish that they are fundamentally against this?

Blows my mind.

 

Like lets take a look at it from a business perspective.

 

Alright, so the bonus chapter, it was 6 months worth of sub right?

Meaning, it would be fair it would cost approximately cost 78 USD to get it, turn that into Cartel coins, and then you have access to it.

Meaning, the people who paid for it after the submode, lost 3000cc + current sub to get it.

And other rewards could also be more expensive, do you not see that this is a better business model that can actually help improve your because it would tempt people to keep their sub longer, in order to not pay for the extra, instead people are cancelling because why should they keep subbing? They're more likely to switch to another MMO because of the punishing nature of the sub only at this month perk.

 

It was 8 months of subscribing,or $120 at the single month rate.

 

I do not believe that BW should ever make that BONUS chapter available again, but IF they chose to do so, it should be for REAL MONEY only, NOT CC's. There are way too many FREE CC's floating around. It should also cost more than that $120. There should be some additional cost for getting a "second chance", IMO.

 

Since you've already said (and I will paraphrase) "even if it costs more than the sub reward", would you be willing to pay $150 in real money for access to that chapter? Or, are your words empty and nothing more than false pretenses? Even if you were willing to pay $150 for access to that chapter, how many others do you think would be willing to do so?

[ivanhedgehog]

It was 8 months of subscribing,or $120 at the single month rate.

 

I do not believe that BW should ever make that BONUS chapter available again, but IF they chose to do so, it should be for REAL MONEY only, NOT CC's. There are way too many FREE CC's floating around. It should also cost more than that $120. There should be some additional cost for getting a "second chance", IMO.

 

Since you've already said (and I will paraphrase) "even if it costs more than the sub reward", would you be willing to pay $150 in real money for access to that chapter? Or, are your words empty and nothing more than false pretenses? Even if you were willing to pay $150 for access to that chapter, how many others do you think would be willing to do so?

 

not $150..Make it 18 months of continuous subscription. a time and money commitment. It should help build activity in the game and give new players something to work towards. If you sub now you will unlock it in a year and a half.

[Ratajack]

not $150..Make it 18 months of continuous subscription. a time and money commitment. It should help build activity in the game and give new players something to work towards. If you sub now you will unlock it in a year and a half.

 

That would only cause the "complaints" to change to "I want it NOW!!!!!!!" or "I was subbed for 17 months straight, but I missed month 18, so I have to start over?" .

 

There is nothing BW can do that will please everyone and stop the complaints from some of those who want something they KNOW they are not entitled to have.

 

IMO, the BONUS chapter needs to stay exclusive to those that actually MET the requirements to be eligible to receive it.

[AscendingSky]

That would only cause the "complaints" to change to "I want it NOW!!!!!!!" or "I was subbed for 17 months straight, but I missed month 18, so I have to start over?" .

 

There is nothing BW can do that will please everyone and stop the complaints from some of those who want something they KNOW they are not entitled to have.

 

Exactly. People with huge entitlement issues like the OP will always find reason to complain, no matter what. They will always want something for nothing, just because they want it. They will always want to receive the rewards other people have earned and paid for, even though they didn't earn or pay for it. They will always want everything now!!! They are the Veruca Salts of the world.

 

You have to draw a line somewhere when you're making any kind of exclusive or limited time offer, and since there's no way you can please the Veruca Salts no matter what you do, there's no point in moving that line just to try to placate them. You snooze, you lose.

[ivanhedgehog]

That would only cause the "complaints" to change to "I want it NOW!!!!!!!" or "I was subbed for 17 months straight, but I missed month 18, so I have to start over?" .

 

There is nothing BW can do that will please everyone and stop the complaints from some of those who want something they KNOW they are not entitled to have.

 

IMO, the BONUS chapter needs to stay exclusive to those that actually MET the requirements to be eligible to receive it.

 

give them a path that is doable. not an easy path, but one that can be accomplished. I have done the 18 month thing in another game and it isnt the problem you think it is.

[Kaedusz]

This thread is pure popcorn gold.

[NeverLoseFaith]

I think you are missing the point guys.

 

Achievements and Rewards are 2 different things.

 

Imo all achievements of the game should be doable at any given time.

 

Rewards for being a Sub at a specific time should be other things. Like Mounts/Pets/Armors. Like with season PvP awards.

 

In the end, it's not nice locking out achievement hunters. Give to the Subs sth else special that has nothing to do with Achi.

Edited February 4, 2017 by NeverLoseFaith

[Andryah]

I think you are missing the point guys.

 

Achievements and Rewards are 2 different things.

 

Imo all achievements of the game should be doable at any given time.

 

Rewards for being a Sub at a specific time should be other things. Like Mounts/Pets/Armors. Like with season PvP awards.

 

In the end, it's not nice locking out achievement hunters. Give to the Subs sth else special that has nothing to do with Achi.

 

Sorry, but if you are late, or intermittent, in your playing of this game, and as a consequence you miss out on a few achievements... too bad. If achievement completionists feel so strongly.. then they had the ability to actually be an active player at the time that limited time achievements were active.

 

Wanting special consideration for people who missed out on something because for whatever reason they were not actively playing the game... is a weak sauce attempt at entitlement.

 

TL;DR: you snooze, you lose. Sometimes there is simply no "do over" in a game.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Andryah

[Ratajack]

give them a path that is doable. not an easy path, but one that can be accomplished. I have done the 18 month thing in another game and it isnt the problem you think it is.

 

First, BW should NOT make that chapter available again, IMO.

 

It was a limited time offer. If Johnny missed the limited time, then he missed it.

 

Second, $150 IS doable. It might not be easy, but it is easier than 18 months continuous subscription and cheaper.

 

Johnny can take that $15 he would pay each month to subscribe and put it away for ten months. It doesn't even have to be 10 continuous months. This means that if Johnny misses a month, he does not have to start over from square one.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Ratajack

[Tgellan]

I see the view and point from both sides. I have all that content, because I was subscribing, besides from HK55, that was a complete waste of money. Amazing story, terrible and very poor mmo content.

 

But I still have to agree with the OP, while it is not a punishment for new players it is most certainly a deterrent for people that might want to return or even new players. Whenever I want to play a new MMO, I always think of all the stuff I can't get, that is unavailable to me for joining years later. Bottom line, you want new players, you want them to join and keep playing, and this kind of rewards it completely detrimental toward that end.

[Ratajack]

I see the view and point from both sides. I have all that content, because I was subscribing, besides from HK55, that was a complete waste of money. Amazing story, terrible and very poor mmo content.

 

But I still have to agree with the OP, while it is not a punishment for new players it is most certainly a deterrent for people that might want to return or even new players. Whenever I want to play a new MMO, I always think of all the stuff I can't get, that is unavailable to me for joining years later. Bottom line, you want new players, you want them to join and keep playing, and this kind of rewards it completely detrimental toward that end.

 

Do you only play games in which there is nothing that is no longer obtainable?

 

If so, then I wonder how large your selection of games that you are willing to play can be.

 

Do you recognize that sometimes starting a game a few years after it was released means that some things and some "content" may no longer be available and play those games anyway?

[Decalin]

I missed the bonus chapter, which I was a bit pissed at myself for, but IMO that is the end of it, you cant just go and make it available again if it was given out as a subscriber reward during a specified period.

 

That said, while I actually think sub rewards are a good thing overall, I do think using bonus story content which will never again be made available is a really bad choice of reward.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Decalin

[ivanhedgehog]

I missed the bonus chapter, which I was a bit pissed at myself for, but IMO that is the end of it, you cant just go and make it available again if it was given out as a subscriber reward during a specified period.

 

That said, while I actually think sub rewards are a good thing overall, I do think using bonus story content which will never again be made available is a really bad choice of reward.

 

Actually, i just went back and read the advert. They said that subscribers fro jan to july get it free. They never use the word exclusive. they didnt rule out giving it to others for "not free". Can someone show where they said it was exclusive? Or are people feeling entitled to an exclusive thing they were not promised?

[Ratajack]

Actually, i just went back and read the advert. They said that subscribers fro jan to july get it free. They never use the word exclusive. they didnt rule out giving it to others for "not free". Can someone show where they said it was exclusive? Or are people feeling entitled to an exclusive thing they were not promised?

 

Read further down the page and you will see the clear and explicit terms and conditions.

 

The clear and explicit terms and conditions have been quoted numerous times, but here they are again:

 

 

*Terms and Conditions

 

* To qualify for the Knights of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Rewards, the account must be in a Subscriber status as of 11:59PM PST//7:59AM GMT on the date listed by the reward. Knights of the Fallen Empire rewards are delivered through in-game mail or mission and are redeemable as of the launch of the monthly chapter(s). Players must have an active Subscription status to unlock 2 Days of Early Access for each Chapter.

*Players must have completed Chapters 1-9 to access their HK-55 Companion. After completing Chapter 9, players will receive an Alliance Alert that will take them on a mission to recruit HK-55.

** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016. Once you qualify and the Bonus Chapter is released, you may enter and play the Bonus Chapter after you complete Chapters 1-16.

* ACCEPTANCE OF END USER ACCESS AND LICENSE AGREEMENT ('EUALA'), PERSISTENT INTERNET CONNECTION, AND ACCOUNT REGISTRATION REQUIRED TO PLAY. MUST BE 13+ TO REGISTER. ACCOUNT IS NON-TRANSFERABLE ONCE USED. PAID SUBSCRIPTION, VALID AND ACCEPTED PAYMENT METHOD OR PAID GAME TIME CARD (IF AVAILABLE) REQUIRED TO ACCESS SUBSCRIPTION GAMEPLAY. PAYMENT METHOD AGE RESTRICTIONS MAY APPLY. SWTOR ONLINE SERVICE MAY BE DISCONTINUED. SEE EUALA FOR DETAILS. AGREEMENT TO SHARE ACCOUNT INFORMATION WITH LUCASFILM ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY LTD. ('LUCASFILM') IS REQUIRED TO ACCESS GAMEPLAY. GAME INTENDED FOR PLAY ONLY WITHIN NORTH AMERICA, EUROPE AND CERTAIN OTHER TERRITORIES. USE OF CARTEL COINS SUBJECT TO DIGITAL SERVICES AGREEMENT. PRIVACY POLICY AND TERMS OF SERVICE AVAILABLE AT http://WWW.SWTOR.COM. ALL TERMS AND CONDITIONS TO PLAY THE GAME APPLY AT ALL TIMES. SUBSCRIPTIONS MAY BE CANCELLED AT ANY TIME. SEE http://WWW.SWTOR.COM FOR DETAILS.

 

Notice the highlighted part.

 

"** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016".

 

That is very clear and explicit.

 

Notice that it does not say "unless and/or until we decide to make it available again if enough people whine about not having access to it."

 

If Johnny was not subscribed continuously from January 11-August 1, 2016, then he does NOT qualify to receive the BONUS chapter.

[ivanhedgehog]

Read further down the page and you will see the clear and explicit terms and conditions.

 

The clear and explicit terms and conditions have been quoted numerous times, but here they are again:

 

 

*Terms and Conditions

 

* To qualify for the Knights of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Rewards, the account must be in a Subscriber status as of 11:59PM PST//7:59AM GMT on the date listed by the reward. Knights of the Fallen Empire rewards are delivered through in-game mail or mission and are redeemable as of the launch of the monthly chapter(s). Players must have an active Subscription status to unlock 2 Days of Early Access for each Chapter.

*Players must have completed Chapters 1-9 to access their HK-55 Companion. After completing Chapter 9, players will receive an Alliance Alert that will take them on a mission to recruit HK-55.

** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016. Once you qualify and the Bonus Chapter is released, you may enter and play the Bonus Chapter after you complete Chapters 1-16.

* ACCEPTANCE OF END USER ACCESS AND LICENSE AGREEMENT ('EUALA'), PERSISTENT INTERNET CONNECTION, AND ACCOUNT REGISTRATION REQUIRED TO PLAY. MUST BE 13+ TO REGISTER. ACCOUNT IS NON-TRANSFERABLE ONCE USED. PAID SUBSCRIPTION, VALID AND ACCEPTED PAYMENT METHOD OR PAID GAME TIME CARD (IF AVAILABLE) REQUIRED TO ACCESS SUBSCRIPTION GAMEPLAY. PAYMENT METHOD AGE RESTRICTIONS MAY APPLY. SWTOR ONLINE SERVICE MAY BE DISCONTINUED. SEE EUALA FOR DETAILS. AGREEMENT TO SHARE ACCOUNT INFORMATION WITH LUCASFILM ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY LTD. ('LUCASFILM') IS REQUIRED TO ACCESS GAMEPLAY. GAME INTENDED FOR PLAY ONLY WITHIN NORTH AMERICA, EUROPE AND CERTAIN OTHER TERRITORIES. USE OF CARTEL COINS SUBJECT TO DIGITAL SERVICES AGREEMENT. PRIVACY POLICY AND TERMS OF SERVICE AVAILABLE AT http://WWW.SWTOR.COM. ALL TERMS AND CONDITIONS TO PLAY THE GAME APPLY AT ALL TIMES. SUBSCRIPTIONS MAY BE CANCELLED AT ANY TIME. SEE http://WWW.SWTOR.COM FOR DETAILS.

 

Notice the highlighted part.

 

"** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016".

 

That is very clear and explicit.

 

Notice that it does not say "unless and/or until we decide to make it available again if enough people whine about not having access to it."

 

If Johnny was not subscribed continuously from January 11-August 1, 2016, then he does NOT qualify to receive the BONUS chapter.

 

They were clear what you had to do to qualify for that offer. The limitations given were 100% on the player, not on them. They never said exclusive, it is their property and no where do they promise you that it would never be given out again. They could run the exact same perk the next year and still will not have promised you exclusivity.

[Ratajack]

They were clear what you had to do to qualify for that offer. The limitations given were 100% on the player, not on them. They never said exclusive, it is their property and no where do they promise you that it would never be given out again. They could run the exact same perk the next year and still will not have promised you exclusivity.

 

What part of ""** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016". is so difficult to understand?

 

The word "exclusive" may not have been explicitly used but the dates are clear and specific including the year as is the requirement that the account be continuously in active subscription status between those two dates.

 

 

How can anyone who did NOT continuously subscribe from January 11-Auugust 1, 2016 go back in time so they can continuously subscribe between those two dates without the benefit of a TARDIS or a flux capacitor?

[eriksarcasm]

What part of ""** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016". is so difficult to understand?

 

The word "exclusive" may not have been explicitly used but the dates are clear and specific including the year as is the requirement that the account be continuously in active subscription status between those two dates.

 

 

How can anyone who did NOT continuously subscribe from January 11-Auugust 1, 2016 go back in time so they can continuously subscribe between those two dates without the benefit of a TARDIS or a flux capacitor?

 

But you said CLEAR AND EXPLICIT! Now you say it wasn't explicit?

[AscendingSky]

I think you are missing the point guys.

 

Achievements and Rewards are 2 different things.

 

Imo all achievements of the game should be doable at any given time.

 

Rewards for being a Sub at a specific time should be other things. Like Mounts/Pets/Armors. Like with season PvP awards.

 

In the end, it's not nice locking out achievement hunters. Give to the Subs sth else special that has nothing to do with Achi.

 

The ONLY achievement linked to the bonus chapter is the achievement for completing the bonus chapter. It is not tied into anything else, including the meta achievements for completing all of the expansion content.

 

Also, as others have said, if achievement hunters really cared about getting that one achievement, THEY COULD HAVE PAID THE 8 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS OF SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED TO GET IT LIKE EVERYONE ELSE WHO DID. If achievement hunters missed out on that one achievement, they have only themselves to blame.

Edited February 5, 2017 by AscendingSky

[AscendingSky]

But you said CLEAR AND EXPLICIT! Now you say it wasn't explicit?

 

"To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016"

 

That is a clear and explicit restriction right there. THE ACCOUNT MUST HAVE BEEN CONTINUOUSLY SUBSCRIBED DURING THOSE MONTHS TO QUALIFY. How much more clear and explicit can you get?

[ivanhedgehog]

What part of ""** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016". is so difficult to understand?

 

The word "exclusive" may not have been explicitly used but the dates are clear and specific including the year as is the requirement that the account be continuously in active subscription status between those two dates.

 

 

How can anyone who did NOT continuously subscribe from January 11-Auugust 1, 2016 go back in time so they can continuously subscribe between those two dates without the benefit of a TARDIS or a flux capacitor?

 

they listed the requirements to get it FREE. They did not list the requirements to get it by paying. You have a false sense of entitlement. You are trying to add something in there that does not exist.

[eriksarcasm]

"To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016"

 

That is a clear and explicit restriction right there. THE ACCOUNT MUST HAVE BEEN CONTINUOUSLY SUBSCRIBED DURING THOSE MONTHS TO QUALIFY. How much more clear and explicit can you get?

 

Ooh, I know how to turn caps lock on and off too! Watch....

 

It never says exclusive. Captain CLEAR AND EXPLICIT there even admitted it's never EXPLICITLY stated, only IMPLIED.

 

I'll tell ya something that's CLEAR AND EXPLICIT: in the TOS, where it says they can change anything about the game at any time. That means that, at their discretion, they can give and take away ANYTHING THEY WANT.

 

Deal.