Ralei Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) TLDR : make the original story/planet quests reward much more dark or light points so that your alignment will effect your story, like it was designed to. I've recently started a new warrior to prepare for a certain someone's return I love playing dark side, and I choose mostly dark side choices (5,818 vs 300). I'm level 32 and I've still not reached dark I. What's the big deal? Well, it ruins the story! Yes, I know I could do extra work to get diplomacy, and run diplomacy missions while I level, but it really shouldn't be that way, ESPECIALLY IN THIS GAME. Your story decisions should make the impact, not some mindless grind. Otherwise, what's the point? The thing that really has me shaking my head is the warrior quest on Tatooine where you do battle with your inner self. The last time I played a warrior, I was well on my way to full darkness and my redeemed mirror self warned me about how terrible/amazing I was. It was cool. To my surprise, tonight I have the "dark me" confronting my new warrior about how I'm filled with the "stench of the light". WHAT?!?! I'm a murder machine!!! This makes no sense! I'm dreading getting to Jaesa and somehow screwing up and getting a ls Jaesa. I think I would just /delete and start over. Edited February 10, 2017 by Ralei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I think it's safe to state that BWA have moved on from the level 1-50 experience in favor of their new story lines and endgame such as it is (DvL in this case). A real shame because the level 1-50 experience is still one of the best parts of the game and they shouldn't detract from it really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralei Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 I think it's safe to state that BWA have moved on from the level 1-50 experience in favor of their new story lines and endgame such as it is (DvL in this case). A real shame because the level 1-50 experience is still one of the best parts of the game and they shouldn't detract from it really. Yes, but it's such an EASY fix. Just increase the points gained from vanilla quests by whatever %. Done. When you're 70, there's no way to go back and do those quests again to switch sides easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Yes, but it's such an EASY fix. Just increase the points gained from vanilla quests by whatever %. Done. When you're 70, there's no way to go back and do those quests again to switch sides easily. You misunderstand. They don't want you to have a lot of dark side points at level 70. They want you to grind DvL for points. If you get more DS points while leveling it makes their DvL thing even more of a failure. Edited February 3, 2017 by Tsillah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralei Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 You misunderstand. They don't want you to have a lot of dark side points at level 70. They want you to grind DvL for points. If you get more DS points while leveling it makes their DvL thing even more of a failure. errr I don't see that. You don't really "grind" dark or light points at 70 unless you're trying to switch sides. You get the same rewards at 10,001 dark or light as you do max, right? If anything, it seems to encourage a neutral character, which is a crazy 180. I'm more inclined to attribute Hanlon's on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 errr I don't see that. You don't really "grind" dark or light points at 70 unless you're trying to switch sides. You get the same rewards at 10,001 dark or light as you do max, right? If anything, it seems to encourage a neutral character, which is a crazy 180. I'm more inclined to attribute Hanlon's on this one. As you said yourself, it takes a lot of points now to get even to DS1. The only reason for this change is the DvL thing. Call it what you want to but that's the cause of the problem and if you are DS5 at level 70 then it negates the point of DvL. Having a DS rank now gives you bonus CXP when your side wins. Even at level 70 it takes a while to get to DS5, so if you don't want to call it grind, fine, but what would you call it then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Any quest, including crafting gives you points and even more when you have DS/LS choices. I tend to be rank 5 shortly after if not before I hit 70. Its not that big of deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralei Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Any quest, including crafting gives you points and even more when you have DS/LS choices. I tend to be rank 5 shortly after if not before I hit 70. Its not that big of deal. You must do a lot of craftin 1-50 O.o I'm talking about when you first start out with a new story and character with the base game. Making 5,000 points worth of dark side decisions should not make your own toon lecture you about how you stink of lightness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Dude just run BT a few times. Are you doing the planetary quests too or just the story? Pretty sure they designed the original 1-50 game with both in mind. I noticed the faction thing too on my LS characters I burned up through DvL doing just the story and skipping flashpoints and planet arcs when the DvL XP boost was there. Edited February 3, 2017 by stoopicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralei Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Dude just run BT a few times. Are you doing the planetary quests too or just the story? Pretty sure they designed the original 1-50 game with both in mind. I noticed the faction thing too on my LS characters I burned up through DvL doing just the story and skipping flashpoints and planet arcs when the DvL XP boost was there. Yeah, I'm doing planet and class stories. No heroics or fp's. Why?! I'm already way above every planet's level I go to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Yeah that was my theory too while leveling DvL alts, and my faction balance was kinda what you're describing. I'm thinking they balanced it with doing everything in mind. Edited February 3, 2017 by stoopicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I must agree with the op, i mean the points I actually get for my choices is like using a water gun in the sea it does not do anything at all, my choices alone should be the major factor in my alignment not miscellaneous stuff like warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anduhar Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) This has been mentioned before a few times and it does screw with the class stories quite a bit. You pretty much don't get to see the special light / dark options anymore during your story. They need to adjust the rate at which you gain light and dark points during class stories or they could change the special light / dark options to require specific point amounts instead of ranks. I don't know why everyone in this particular thread doesn't seem to care. You literally cannot pick the special light / dark options unless you specifically halt your story progress and farm light / dark points, this is a big deal. I think it's safe to state that BWA have moved on from the level 1-50 experience in favor of their new story lines and endgame such as it is (DvL in this case). A real shame because the level 1-50 experience is still one of the best parts of the game and they shouldn't detract from it really. You misunderstand. They don't want you to have a lot of dark side points at level 70. They want you to grind DvL for points. If you get more DS points while leveling it makes their DvL thing even more of a failure. What are you basing this on? There has been no official mention that they no longer care about the class stories or anything of that nature. Just because they haven't expanded on them doesn't mean they don't value them at all. The 1-50 class stories still remain one of the main pillars of this game and they are one of the big things that attracts new players and keeps them playing which Bioware relies heavily on. They want you to farm light / dark tokens from DvL not necessarily points. The tokens are what give you the fancy cosmetic gear. They have made no indication that they want to nerf the light / dark aspect anywhere else in the game let alone the class stories of all things. They simply wouldn't intentionally damage one of the main pillars of this game (class stories) for a feature (arguably a minor feature) that primarily rewards cosmetic items. The very thought is absurd. Edited February 3, 2017 by Anduhar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagaimee Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 You must do a lot of craftin 1-50 O.o I'm talking about when you first start out with a new story and character with the base game. Making 5,000 points worth of dark side decisions should not make your own toon lecture you about how you stink of lightness. Literally *everything* you do has light or dark points - crafting, warzones, flashpoint, I'm pretty sure even normal conversations that don't have explicitly light or dark decisions. That includes combat. Kill an enemy, you automatically get light or dark points depending on which side you have toggled on. The huge amount of points necessary to reach any tier is made up for by the fact that EVERYTHING now has light/dark points attached to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anduhar Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Literally *everything* you do has light or dark points - crafting, warzones, flashpoint, I'm pretty sure even normal conversations that don't have explicitly light or dark decisions. That includes combat. Kill an enemy, you automatically get light or dark points depending on which side you have toggled on. The huge amount of points necessary to reach any tier is made up for by the fact that EVERYTHING now has light/dark points attached to it. You seem to be missing the point. We're not talking about farming points when you're at / near max level. We're talking about your class story for levels 1-50. You simply do not gain enough light / dark points to rank up from doing your story to trigger the special light / dark options during natural story progression. You shouldn't have to halt your story progress just to spend hours farming light / dark points. This is not how the class stories are meant to be played and its not how they are played by the majority of people. Edited February 3, 2017 by Anduhar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralei Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Dude just run BT a few times. Are you doing the planetary quests too or just the story? Pretty sure they designed the original 1-50 game with both in mind. I noticed the faction thing too on my LS characters I burned up through DvL doing just the story and skipping flashpoints and planet arcs when the DvL XP boost was there. and it would be 7 times to get dark 1 from where I'm at now, btw. No thanks. That sounds horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anduhar Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Here's another popular thread on the same issue but gives a bit more detail for anyone interested: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=907331 Edited February 3, 2017 by Anduhar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoopicus Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 and it would be 7 times to get dark 1 from where I'm at now, btw. No thanks. That sounds horrible. Yeah - not saying it's a good option, but it might be your easiest option if you want to get out of neutral ASAP. Or run all the level-appropriate FPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralei Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Yeah - not saying it's a good option, but it might be your easiest option if you want to get out of neutral ASAP. Or run all the level-appropriate FPs. yeah, I know it's not good. That's why I made this thread So they'll fix it. I just think it was a complete oversight on the devs part because they were concerned with DvL at 70. Which is fine, but good lord don't ruin all the effort of the original stories in the process. I really didn't expect anyone to disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRieh Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 What are you basing this on? There has been no official mention that they no longer care about the class stories or anything of that nature. Just because they haven't expanded on them doesn't mean they don't value them at all. Why, they had been 'expanded on'!.. 2 out of 8 (JK + SI) The 'expansion' is called KotFE + KotET... Smugglers, agents or troopers? Who rolls them anyway. Sarcasm aside - when had you last seen a 'class' mission? Right, it's that tiny fetch-quest on Rishi. No 'classes' exist past Ziost. Wish it had been any different. Also, the 1-50 content is absolutely out of balance. XP rates are insane, and it's impossible to keep within the level range. Crafting while leveling is screwed too - I could equip grade 3 before leaving the Coruscant. It's impossible to sync the process with the story. Some changes in class skills had broken the class story combat designs - e.g. smuggler has a moment with several * droids, and they were supposed to use CC, which had been taken away from them, some spots were supposed to teach us how to use the no longer avaliable covers. Yeah, it does not mean much with overnerfed and outleveled encounters, but that's just how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anduhar Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Why, they had been 'expanded on'!.. 2 out of 8 (JK + SI) The 'expansion' is called KotFE + KotET... Smugglers, agents or troopers? Who rolls them anyway. Sarcasm aside - when had you last seen a 'class' mission? Right, it's that tiny fetch-quest on Rishi. No 'classes' exist past Ziost. Wish it had been any different. Like I said, just because they haven't expanded on and added more class specific content, doesn't mean they don't value the class stories as they are. Also, the 1-50 content is absolutely out of balance. XP rates are insane, and it's impossible to keep within the level range. Crafting while leveling is screwed too - I could equip grade 3 before leaving the Coruscant. It's impossible to sync the process with the story. They revamped the leveling process a while back so everyone can level from doing only their class story and planet story arcs (purple missions) and you can skip any side missions (yellow missions) if you want. Level scaling also prevents you from overleveling the content you're doing. These changes are all intentional so that the leveling process is quicker and more streamlined. And I don't see how leveling crafting while leveling matters, the content is easy and the gear you get while leveling is more than enough to get you to max level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasmaJohn Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Diplomacy is now the worst tradeskill to use to grind LS/DS points. Its natural alignment is completely masked by whichever side you picked so there's no way of knowing which is which unless you've got a cheat sheet that maps mission name to DS/LS. Even then you only get so many of each. Much better to pick a different gathering skill where each mission gives you points towards your chosen side. Frankly the DvL feature is an utter travesty. It screwed up the base stories. It spams us with an utterly obnoxious and unavoidable popup that actively interferes with most playable content. The worst part is the whinging about which side is winning. But what should we expect from the crack design team that brought us Galactic Command? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defecter Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Wait, they changed it so that it's extremely hard to get LS/DS ranks during your class story? And thus excluding several choices during your story which rely on having a certain level of LS/DS rank? Jesus christ... Combined with all the RNG stuff I hear about, it's getting more and more absurd. I just resubbed to relevel a new toon after a long sabbatical, but I'm debating on just letting it run out without even playing much now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediAkemi Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 On Diplomacy you hover your cursor over the mission name (or alignment symbol) and it will tell you how many of each side's points it is worth. On a crit, the mission's natural alignment change doubles (or more). Crafting itself doesn't change alignment, but all Gathering and Mission skills give alignment points based on the mission grade (16 each for grade 1 up to 102 each for grade 10) All actual missions (class, planetary, exploration, flashpoint, daily, etc) seem to give your level in alignment points regardless of whether there's an actual Light/Dark choice inside it. I don't think you get Light/Dark points just for kills, but if you're doing a bonus mission to kill x number of things, completing each stage of the bonus mission may well give the same boost as completing a basic mission. PVP is minimum 1000 points per match... the only problem with that is the rate at which "lowbie" and "midbie" pvp actually pops. So, yeah, while we have way more methods of changing our alignment these days, that still doesn't change the fact that trying to do it the way the game was meant to be played (just actually doing the story) is no longer viable since 5.0 dropped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunnerNM Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Totally agreed with the OP. I'm noticing this on my BH, and as this is my first time through the BH story, it really sucks, BW. Still have the JK story to do. *Sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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