Shwarzchild Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I'm not sure I can agree that they should tune anything around pug groups. In some ways it defeats the purpose of the content. If the purpose is to be the top end portion of the end game (structurally speaking) it doesn't make sense to tune it to something so easy that it trivializes what end game progression should be. When I say end game progression I mean player progression from a starting point to the end point. That's something this game has unfortunately lost its way with. I believe players would be much better off if they were given a clear path to the operations so that when they get into something more complex they are ready for it. We've always said the game doesn't help players get to the level they should be at in operations of any difficulty. If they were to structure end game so that you started with daily areas and eternal championship then progress to hard mode flashpoints then to story mode flashpoints and then hardmode to nightmare if the player feels so inclined that would be a very good structure. On the other hand, the philosophy of the studio is play the way you want to play which means content should be accessible. What the definition of accessible actually is, is the kind of unicorn type thing. I don't believe new raids should be tuned to completely stomp pug groups out of existence, but I also don't agree that removing mechanics like they have done is the answer either. I forget who said it, but the answer might more readily rest in DPS/ Heal check values and enrage timers while also giving flashpoints and the lower esk level content attention in terms of balance and rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabigool Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Or they could just create LFR mode as a 4th option. While the playerbase is not massive, the spread in skill is. Reality is the cost of creating an LFR mode would be negligible. Remove enrage timer, reduce damage output to nonsensical levels... Bam. LFR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 King arthur wouldnt have lasted a week if that had happened.. Or maybe he would have had to return excaliber mk.1 to the Lady Of The Lake along with 200 tokens to get excaliber mk.2 Priceless ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I'm not sure I can agree that they should tune anything around pug groups. In some ways it defeats the purpose of the content. If the purpose is to be the top end portion of the end game (structurally speaking) it doesn't make sense to tune it to something so easy that it trivializes what end game progression should be. When I say end game progression I mean player progression from a starting point to the end point. That's something this game has unfortunately lost its way with. I believe players would be much better off if they were given a clear path to the operations so that when they get into something more complex they are ready for it. We've always said the game doesn't help players get to the level they should be at in operations of any difficulty. If they were to structure end game so that you started with daily areas and eternal championship then progress to hard mode flashpoints then to story mode flashpoints and then hardmode to nightmare if the player feels so inclined that would be a very good structure. On the other hand, the philosophy of the studio is play the way you want to play which means content should be accessible. What the definition of accessible actually is, is the kind of unicorn type thing. I don't believe new raids should be tuned to completely stomp pug groups out of existence, but I also don't agree that removing mechanics like they have done is the answer either. I forget who said it, but the answer might more readily rest in DPS/ Heal check values and enrage timers while also giving flashpoints and the lower esk level content attention in terms of balance and rewards. NIM mode is supposed to be the utmost difficulty. HM is hard but doable by many. SM is easy to do by many and very forgiving of class and gear. You should be able to do sm with 1 healer, or 3. 5 dps or 3. OPS have interesting stories and scenery and should not be locked down to a lucky few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwarzchild Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 NIM mode is supposed to be the utmost difficulty. HM is hard but doable by many. SM is easy to do by many and very forgiving of class and gear. You should be able to do sm with 1 healer, or 3. 5 dps or 3. OPS have interesting stories and scenery and should not be locked down to a lucky few. That's not entirely what I'm getting at, but your point is well taken none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekogunner Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) lol what? Just look at sites like Tor Community, they already published the info from 5.2 ops/boss names, changes in 5.2 etc, there is no lawsuit with them. Even when Zorz was testing Revan pictures have leaked outside, there is no point on involving layers, what will you get from a 20 year old student from Romania?? If they had zero intention of punishing people they wouldn't both with the NDA. That's the whole point of an NDA. You agree not to talk about content in the public eye, including these forums. Whether they follow up with it or not is up to them and doesn't matter. The intent is present with the NDA itself. Edited February 3, 2017 by nekogunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stookydroid Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 no ToS violation in the last 12 months? well **** considering how retarded the ban system is, idk if thats even possible guess no closed test for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanNV Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 no ToS violation in the last 12 months? well **** considering how retarded the ban system is, idk if thats even possible guess no closed test for me If you got banned in game then you are correct. If it was in the forum they said it doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychopyro Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I'm not sure I can agree that they should tune anything around pug groups. In some ways it defeats the purpose of the content. If the purpose is to be the top end portion of the end game (structurally speaking) it doesn't make sense to tune it to something so easy that it trivializes what end game progression should be. When I say end game progression I mean player progression from a starting point to the end point. That's something this game has unfortunately lost its way with. I believe players would be much better off if they were given a clear path to the operations so that when they get into something more complex they are ready for it. We've always said the game doesn't help players get to the level they should be at in operations of any difficulty. If they were to structure end game so that you started with daily areas and eternal championship then progress to hard mode flashpoints then to story mode flashpoints and then hardmode to nightmare if the player feels so inclined that would be a very good structure. On the other hand, the philosophy of the studio is play the way you want to play which means content should be accessible. What the definition of accessible actually is, is the kind of unicorn type thing. I don't believe new raids should be tuned to completely stomp pug groups out of existence, but I also don't agree that removing mechanics like they have done is the answer either. I forget who said it, but the answer might more readily rest in DPS/ Heal check values and enrage timers while also giving flashpoints and the lower esk level content attention in terms of balance and rewards. The thing is, the more people we get into ops group that can do it the better. A lot of people don't even try that may want to do them after they try. If you can get them in and say hey this is kinda fun, then you have more people potentially train to do the harder ones. It does not have to be basic attack stupid easy, but if you give someone a sense of some accomplishment, they will want to get that next level of feeling... It's a psychological thing. Vet and Master mode story content is how you get people interested in that content that want a higher sense of accomplishment. Replay value is probably the biggest problem in this game, in any MMO actually. The more content you can make playable to the masses in general, the more people you can get to stay. Yes you need more content, but if replay value is there in the old stuff, it gives them some more time to do new content and keep a stream of content incoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Its attitudes like this that make them not want to ask. This is the first time in a long time I can remember them even asking for help. If the community isn't willing to help because they love the game, then the community has only itself to blame if they don't get what they want or get something the Devs think they want, but is broken. I think them asking is a step in the right direction, an over due step to be sure, but still a right step. Asking them for something free to help isn't the way to get a good game or get them to listen. They used to release almost everything on the PTS first, back in the day. You even could earn titles for your character on the main servers for leveling characters on the PTS. They didn't ask for applications so they could scrutinize and filter out anyone who's ever shown negativity towards them. Anyone who wanted could go on the PTS, make characters, and try new content. People could--and did--talk about PTS content on the forum for the PTS, as well as with their friends in game, and on websites like Dulfy. Then they stopped doing that, and the three days or a week you would get as 'early access' of something for pre-ordering/subscribing by a certain deadline turned into their beta testing period, with predictable results. Now they want to pick and choose who gets to beta test for them, requiring an NDA to add a threat of a lawsuit if you dare say anything about the content of the PTS. See a pattern here? Edited February 3, 2017 by AscendingSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Part of the problem is the horrible stat distribution on many items. It is like finding excaliber and having to rip out parts to fix it so it will work. King arthur wouldnt have lasted a week if that had happened.. Or maybe he would have had to return excaliber mk.1 to the Lady Of The Lake along with 200 tokens to get excaliber mk.2 Nice example Anyway the point here is also that gear is of no importance in the game anymore! You get bolster or level sync everywhere you go. Gear is only relevant for HM/NiM ops, Vet/Master Chapters, EC and Star Fortress. So unless you have good gear, don't attempt those! You can get gear with bad stats, its fine, but if you want to do that content you better start getting the BiS gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 The thing is, the more people we get into ops group that can do it the better. A lot of people don't even try that may want to do them after they try. If you can get them in and say hey this is kinda fun, then you have more people potentially train to do the harder ones. Yeah whats good about it is that its again part of story, at least its an option and the player will be directed towards it. Whats important now is to give Bioware metrics that people will wanna do ops, so we get more in the future. Its nice that 2017 is a year for group content, but we can get Story again next few years. In order to make sure we get ops people need to do run it. New people entering the game dont have that much of a desire to do old opses, most make lvl 65 toons and skip it all. Only DP/DF and ToS are story part, where you dont have to do the ops for ToS even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Wait that is not what you said before... before you said if you were not banned on the forum you can enter. Does that mean now if you have had a ban within 12 months you cannot? That is unfair. TOS- Terms of Service-relates to the game Forum- Relates to the forums. Two separate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 no ToS violation in the last 12 months? well **** considering how retarded the ban system is, idk if thats even possible guess no closed test for me I've been here since launch and never been banned on game nor on the forums. Yes I got a warning once but that was it. Not hard to not get banned if you follow the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_mike Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Not hard to not get banned if you follow the rules. ./insert wild laughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I'm probably too critical for their liking, so I won't bother. Hope you guys who get in at least give some useful feedback instead of just saying that everything is so great and all because you don't like to be critical. I mean if it's good then great but if there are improvement points then you better be willing to let them know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auroroavalor Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 When is the application window closing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I'm probably too critical for their liking, so I won't bother. Hope you guys who get in at least give some useful feedback instead of just saying that everything is so great and all because you don't like to be critical. I mean if it's good then great but if there are improvement points then you better be willing to let them know. From past experience rest assured the concerns are being clearly pointed at on the PTS forums. Now would the producer allowed the devs to tweak 5.0 accordingly to the feedback, we would not be in the current critical situation. I guess the answer lies here He specifically mentioned Galactic Command -- a controversial system that just released with the latest expansion -- when talking about taking a calculated leap of faith while being humble about it. "We took a risk here; we took a shot. I think we got most of it right, but there are things that we didn't get right. And that was providing goals for those who are doing the hardest content and providing specific gear-chase items. So two weeks after we launch, we reviewed that data and had a heart-to-heart discussion with ourselves to say this is what we've got to do. It's the right thing to do for the game." Now while Ben Irving is the producer James Ohlen is truly the one taking decisions and choosing the direction of the game. He's been doing that since the start of SWTOR development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychopyro Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Now while Ben Irving is the producer James Ohlen is truly the one taking decisions and choosing the direction of the game. He's been doing that since the start of SWTOR development. I'll be honest, this sounds just like the arguments for the CU and eventual NGE in SWG just before they flatly announced they screwed up. While I can fault EA for a lot of this (know how EA works), at the same time some of this stinks of LA and directions Julio Torres wanted the game (SWG) to take. Without knowing the full extent of Disney's involvement with the game, it's hard to judge who has responsibility for what. Sadly I don't have the same kind of access as I did at SWG so I can't say for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Post EricMusco Posted February 3, 2017 Author Dev Post Share Posted February 3, 2017 When is the application window closing? Pretty much as long as Closed PTS is active . -eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire-breath Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Eric? Just to clarify the semantics about ToS violations here. Will a received warning without infraction points about violating the rules of conduct (with postremoval) count as a ToS violation when it comes to closed PTS? EDIT: Nvm. For some reason I muppeted out and missed the yellow post about the difference between ToS and forumviolations. Edited February 4, 2017 by fire-breath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Eric? Just to clarify the semantics about ToS violations here. Will a received warning without infraction points about violating the rules of conduct (with postremoval) count as a ToS violation when it comes to closed PTS? Read the thread. He has stated a couple of times now that ToS violations are game violations, not forum violations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuuu Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Is BW actual gona listen to testers and fix bugs and issue BEFORE it live? or will they be ignored like always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire-breath Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Read the thread. He has stated a couple of times now that ToS violations are game violations, not forum violations. Woof woof ..... FYI, I did read the thread including all yellow posts. Or so I thought. For some reason however I missed the line where Eric told us about the difference between ToS and forumviolations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire-breath Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Is BW actual gona listen to testers and fix bugs and issue BEFORE it live? or will they be ignored like always Actually ........ believe what you want but they do really listen. There can be and has been a really nice flow of crossfeedback between the community and devs. Which feels a bit confusing as we also get ignored quite a good amount of times. So I get where your comment comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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