Are Credit Spammers ever going to be dealt with?

[nootsie]

The credit spammers would not be there if it were not for the players who cheat and buy credits.

 

They should just start perma banning the buyers who are easy to track.

 

Arrest the Johns

 

What about the Jims, Tonys, Ryans, Sues, Marys, etc.?

[dr_mike]

And I can say saturday just fine in chat.

 

Saturday is on the filter list. I'm sorry if you feel it;s not but I'll be happy to provide a screen shot.

 

I stopped reading there since it's clear you do not know what you are talking about. I will be happy to point you to some 3rd party resources on what dealing with spam costs in money and effort.

 

Oh and just to mention since it's coming up lately, spammers aren't using the starter world mailboxes to fire off their stuff. They're using their own hacked API to interject it with a script. Just because we don;t have access to an API doesn't mean other folks are following the same rules. I;'d point you to a link but that's datamining and that's a nono around here.

Edited February 1, 2017 by dr_mike

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Uh lets not remove mailboxes from starter planets shall we? Some of us have 50 mails or more to work through, various of them with boosts (from those cantina crates) or companions or even money and dont feel like traveling to a stronghold every time. So lets not do this.

 

Get the legacy unlock - problem solved.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Every week in FF14, the devs list their weekly haul of RMT advertisers and bots. This is last weeks report.

 

 

 

This is from the week before.

 

 

Keep in mind that this game has to be purchased and a sub to play, and is also region locked(chinese cannot get onto the US/EU servers with their cheap copies) Now, just doing some head math, that's an insane amount of money coming into the studio on a weekly basis.

 

Yeah that's cool they do that. I always thought BWA should be more public with punishments ( what they were, how many etc. ).

 

Especially pointing out they are banning buyers, that would scare quite a few I'm sure.

[Andryah]

Every week in FF14, the devs list their weekly haul of RMT advertisers and bots. This is last weeks report.

 

 

 

This is from the week before.

 

 

Keep in mind that this game has to be purchased and a sub to play, and is also region locked(chinese cannot get onto the US/EU servers with their cheap copies) Now, just doing some head math, that's an insane amount of money coming into the studio on a weekly basis.

 

Not doing a very good job over there.......if we use the same "critical metric" that is used on the studio in the forum here. {I mean... why can't they just ban them all and be done with it!} Oh that's right... because knocking down spammers and RMTs, bots, etc... is like playing a lifetime subscription to whack-a-mole.

 

Personally, I could care less if a studio posts their ban/action metrics or not. It's not like any of us can actually verify such numbers. I will note however, that the mail spammers here are jumping through contorted hoops now days to get past the ever evolving spam filters on in game mail.

[Zasszz]

Saturday is on the filter list. I'm sorry if you feel it;s not but I'll be happy to provide a screen shot.

I can write it just fine. No feelings involved. I can provide screens too: http://up.picr.de/28197325wh.jpg

The idea that the word saturday is on a word filter and the most common credit sellers website adress is not would be a hell of a major screwup. Even I would not assume BW is capable of such a level of incompetence after what Ive seen already.

 

I stopped reading there since it's clear you do not know what you are talking about. I will be happy to point you to some 3rd party resources on what dealing with spam costs in money and effort.

Fact is, a tiny addition to the client can do exactly what the players asked for. An individual chat word filter doesnt require any effort or money at all. Players asked for it, to do the work for BW. It doesnt get cheaper than that.

A handful of people with an eye on a list of fresh accounts could prevent the spam before the created chars get past the intro too. But the refusal to install or to adapt a word filter (legacy/accountwide of course) and still claiming to fight spam is worse. Reading the same spammer with the same lines for over a year really exposes the yellow lies we read here on a regular basis.

 

Oh and just to mention since it's coming up lately, spammers aren't using the starter world mailboxes to fire off their stuff..

They dont need the mailboxes? Good, remove them so those without that hack cant use them either. New players and veterans dont need them anyway. So removing them wont cause harm either way.

 

They're using their own hacked API to interject it with a script. Just because we don;t have access to an API doesn't mean other folks are following the same rules. I;'d point you to a link but that's datamining and that's a nono around here.

Right, and without any evidence I have little reason to believe you. And its odd that the ones sending mail always stay 1m away from the mailboxes.

How would that API work? Create a F2P account, use legit/stolen bank account/credit card or play through two classes on a planet to get 40 coins to buy something (cheapest is minor valor for 30 coins) from the cartel market to get prefered status for mail access and then use a list of written down char names to pester with spam? And that without a mailbox.

Not really convincing.

[Bryanbejay]

Right, and without any evidence I have little reason to believe you. And its odd that the ones sending mail always stay 1m away from the mailboxes.

How would that API work? Create a F2P account, use legit/stolen bank account/credit card or play through two classes on a planet to get 40 coins to buy something (cheapest is minor valor for 30 coins) from the cartel market to get prefered status for mail access and then use a list of written down char names to pester with spam? And that without a mailbox.

Not really convincing.

 

They wouldn't waste their time doing that, especially when they don't need to.

 

These people have hundreds of disposable F2P accounts, most of which will be credit farming using bots, all they then need to do to get around the F2P restrictions is click on someones referal link.

 

Instant 7 day sub that removes the F2P restrictions, they get all of their credits out of storage, and they can now send all of it to their "banker" accounts. That then leaves them free to spam the mail for 7 days until they get banned or the 7 days is up, in which case that account goes back to farming.

 

Why give yourself trouble trying to "hack" or code something when the game gives you the tools already.

[dr_mike]

They wouldn't waste their time doing that, especially when they don't need to.

 

No, we're not allowed to discuss it here.

 

For some reason people forget we're on the internet and there are ways of searching for stuff.

 

And there are other websites that cover this and other games.

Edited February 2, 2017 by dr_mike

[JojoMagus]

here is a simple flowchart to create a spam e-mail ignore to start off ( i am not a programmer)

 

 

ascii_position = 1

check for "keyword" (i know keyword changes but to receive multiple spams email/general chat is just ridiculous)

count ascii characters in an e-mail

 

while (ascii_position < character count in an e-mail)

{

read ascii_position (none standard characters are ignored)

if 1st ascii charcter = k

then check1 = k

if next ascii character = e

then check1 = ke

.... so on

ascii_position = ascii_postion + 1

}

if check1 = full keyword (is true)

ignore mail

 

all bioware have to do is to create the spamming ignore into update 10.xxxx. this should be running in the players client and can be disable by the player. that way it does not utilize any processing power from biowares server.

 

tis is just a generic start, and if someone can add plz do.

 

btw this is not a joke, I play in multiple servers and with each character I log into I have to spent time to delete/ignore spams.

Edited February 2, 2017 by JojoMagus

[Vego_Mohenjo]

What if they implemented a system to allow the PLAYERS to police them? I've found many of these vermin standing around Fleet, spamming away. If I could have, I would have simply attacked and KOed the character, ending the spam.

 

How about, if a character has X number of spam reports against it, it becomes targetable? Then the players (or wandering NPC guards) can attack and silence them.

[josephxp]

If you can pass it on to the appropriate channels please tell them to have mailboxes removed on the starter planets. It's been asked for a long time now and I think it would severely impede on the credit spammers. Thanks!

 

I like when i start a new toon to send myself credits to buy unlocks, armor mods, etc. It's not the best idea.

[dr_mike]

I like when i start a new toon to send myself credits to buy unlocks, armor mods, etc. It's not the best idea.

 

Folks making this suggestion will tell you you can go to your stronghold with a new character and do all that.

 

Me? I'd rather have the mailboxes

[Andryah]

Folks making this suggestion will tell you you can go to your stronghold with a new character and do all that.

 

Me? I'd rather have the mailboxes

 

/Agree.

 

And what these mail box removers do not understand is that by the same token.. a spammer can easily pick up a stronghold on a legacy and do exactly the same thing... meaning.. removing mail boxes does nothing other then perhaps move where the mail spam is launched from.

[Avinler]

This is a topic we have certainly talked about quite a bit in the past. Our fight against credit spammers is always on-going and something that will be tricky to ever resolve 100%. Sometimes we wait to take action to take down entire "rings" of sellers at one time, other times we take more direct frequent action, typically against compromised accounts.

 

We know it can be frustrating and it is something we are constantly looking to address. Always report them when you see them, it helps us immensely in taking them down.

 

-eric

 

Eric,

 

Please add a subscription token to the game through the cartel market that can be sold in game on the GTN. The only way to defeat credit sellers is to remove the incentive. If you offer players a legitimate way to convert money into credits that is relatively price stable (that's the problem with existing cartel market items) the credit sellers will lose their market.

 

It is much easier to solve the demand side of this equation than the supply side of the equation.

[Avinler]

What if they implemented a system to allow the PLAYERS to police them? I've found many of these vermin standing around Fleet, spamming away. If I could have, I would have simply attacked and KOed the character, ending the spam.

 

How about, if a character has X number of spam reports against it, it becomes targetable? Then the players (or wandering NPC guards) can attack and silence them.

 

I understand where you're coming from and don't completely disagree, but it does create an opportunity for issues with harassment and griefing by players. There would have to be a lot of safeguards in place.

[Zasszz]

/Agree.

 

And what these mail box removers do not understand is that by the same token.. a spammer can easily pick up a stronghold on a legacy and do exactly the same thing... meaning.. removing mail boxes does nothing other then perhaps move where the mail spam is launched from.

Now you have to explain how ANYONE can access a stronghold with a 5min old account. Or do you think the spammers are so stupid to hand out silver keys for each other to make it easier to be tracked?

 

Unless you want to imply that a spammer plays the first char as long as it takes to buy the stronghold, finishs the stronghold mission (between lvl15-20) or buys a mailbox as decoration, starts spamming, gets banned and then continues to play on another char on the same account as if nothing happened to instantly gain access to the same stronghold with every other char on the server.

 

You paint a picture that once a spammer gets reported and banned, the account is still active. If thats the case then there really is no hope to stop the spam because the system would be even more ineffective than we know.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Zasszz

[PlasmaJohn]

Folks making this suggestion will tell you you can go to your stronghold with a new character and do all that.

I actually prefer going to my stronghold. First and foremost to work on an outfit that looks nice but mostly to escape the guild invite spam. Oh and access to my legacy bank to pick up some class XP boosts.

 

Me? I'd rather have the mailboxes

My preferences notwithstanding I agree that removal is pointless. There are too many ways to work around that not to mention that getting to lvl10 and fleet is a fairly trivial task these days.

[Zasszz]

My preferences notwithstanding I agree that removal is pointless. There are too many ways to work around that not to mention that getting to lvl10 and fleet is a fairly trivial task these days.

I had the impression that you had to finish your class story on the starter planets to use the shuttle to leave. Or do you just need lvl10?

Never tested it since I play it the normal way by finishing the planet before I have need to leave it.

[Joonbeams]

Limit in game mail to those in your legacy, guild, and mutual friends list. Every other use case can be dealt with by the players themselves. /problem.

[Zasszz]

Limit in game mail to those in your legacy, guild, and mutual friends list. Every other use case can be dealt with by the players themselves. /problem.

I like that.

[PiiTarr]

You paint a picture that once a spammer gets reported and banned, the account is still active. If thats the case then there really is no hope to stop the spam because the system would be even more ineffective than we know.

 

Many times this is exactly the case. When you conduct an investigation you often allow the lower level subjects to continue their activities for a time in order to trace them back to the ones you really want to catch. Furthermore, they have explicitly stated in the past they prefer to action multiple accounts simultaneously rather than one at a time, because doing so tips their hand that they're on to the perpetrators.

 

You may not agree with their methods, but they do explain them here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8229028#edit8229028

and here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8180622#edit8180622

Edited February 2, 2017 by PiiTarr
typo

[josephxp]

Eric,

 

Please add a subscription token to the game through the cartel market that can be sold in game on the GTN. The only way to defeat credit sellers is to remove the incentive. If you offer players a legitimate way to convert money into credits that is relatively price stable (that's the problem with existing cartel market items) the credit sellers will lose their market.

 

It is much easier to solve the demand side of this equation than the supply side of the equation.

 

Via CM for cartel coins is highly unlikely. It would have to be something like WoW pay $20 for a token and sell it on the GTN, they still need to make money, and you get 500cc per month for free (600 with SK) because in 4 months you could buy one and increase your sub for free, not to mention referral link usage to quickly get the CC's.

 

Thats why a token would probably be direct purchase and not a CC purchase.

[Andryah]

Now you have to explain how ANYONE can access a stronghold with a 5min old account. Or do you think the spammers are so stupid to hand out silver keys for each other to make it easier to be tracked?

 

Unless you want to imply that a spammer plays the first char as long as it takes to buy the stronghold, finishs the stronghold mission (between lvl15-20) or buys a mailbox as decoration, starts spamming, gets banned and then continues to play on another char on the same account as if nothing happened to instantly gain access to the same stronghold with every other char on the server.

 

 

Simple. I can't believe you cannot figure this out for yourself, seeing how obvious it is.

 

First your premise is full of holes. These are not 5 minute old accounts....... not if they are working efficiently they are not.

 

There are several ways you could go about this..... siting one example (and not the only, nor the easiest) :

 

- Create a new account.

- Buy the minimum CC needed to make the account preferred instantly. A few dollars, maybe plundered from someones credit card.

- Level a character to 15 (which takes an experienced player about 30 minutes, less if they have help with another character on another account).

- Begin laundering funds from one account to the new account (which is easy to do if it is preferred) to jump start the account for spam

- Setup camp in the empty stronghold, with just a mailbox in it, and spam away.

 

Of course, they could also just level the character to 10 and head straight to fleet and onward to the next planet and set up camp there too.. in about the same time, but more visible to passers by (whereas the stronghold is private and cannot be easily observed).

 

The life cycle of the account doing this before it gets banned is unknown (and I'm sure it varies, and they probably do mail spam in large batches using lists of character names harvested and provided to them from the RMTS) ... but it would only need to be active for a few hours in order to be worth the effort for the RMT business.

 

And by the way, there is a lot of evidence floating on the internet that it is actual players (not RMTs) that are doing most of the mule work here in the spamming department, and that they are using spoof accounts to do it. That said, clearly there is collusion between these players and the RMTs... and hence they will also have instructions on the fastest, least expensive way to do this. Which is precisely why you want to track characters and accounts for a time so as to find other connection points with other accounts, and roll them up a batch at a time.

 

Now.. do they do this now? Probably not since there are mail boxes everywhere. But my original point stands.. it's not hard, time consuming, or expensive to make spam mule accounts that use stronghold mailboxes for the spam. So.. taking out the mailboxes on the starter planets will penalize actual players and will NOT stop the mail spam at all.

 

Ripping out mailboxes is an exercise in futility in controlling mail spam, regardless what you personally think.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Andryah

[Zasszz]

Many times this is exactly the case. When you conduct an investigation you often allow the lower level subjects to continue their activities for a time in order to trace them back to the ones you really want to catch. Furthermore, they have explicitly stated in the past they prefer to action multiple accounts simultaneously rather than one at a time, because doing so tips their hand that they're on to the perpetrators.

 

You may not agree with their methods, but they do explain them here:

I doubt the perpetrators can tell how the accounts were identified before they got banned.

Ive heard those methods many times and they have proven to be ineffective and cause the damage the devs pretend to oppose. The perpetrators never have to change their methods because they already know that they can do their thing for a few months and then they start from scratch. By forcing them to change their methods and killing their supply at every turn, you actually harm them more and waste their time instead of doing nothing for months.

 

Removing billions of credits after months of investigation only demonstrates that they let the farmers accumulate immense amounts of cash which they sell in the meantime before they take action. Even tho they provide zero evidence for the claim that they actually banned hundreds of accounts and removed billions of credits. And the yellow poster who posted is doesnt have a credible posting record.

 

Simple. I can't believe you cannot figure this out for yourself, seeing how obvious it is.

Yeah, its not like I went through a scenario involving strongholds earlier... But I rather hear your scenario.

 

- Create a new account.

- Buy the minimum CC needed to make the account preferred instantly. A few dollars, maybe plundered from someones credit card.

- Level a character to 15 (which takes an experienced player about 30 minutes, less if they have help with another character on another account).

- Begin laundering funds from one account to the new account (which is easy to do if it is preferred) to jump start the account for spam

- Setup camp in the empty stronghold, with just a mailbox in it, and spam away.

Of course, its always a stolen credit card involved. And you made a good point to waste the spammers time and even money to spam. You waste up to 30 minutes of the spammer before he can begin spamming. That grows over the month. Actually a good reason to remove the mailboxes because, as I explained twice already, it doesnt harm new players or veterans but only spam chars.

 

Which is precisely why you want to track characters and accounts for a time so as to find other connection points with other accounts, and roll them up a batch at a time.

The chance to make a connection between a spam account and a credit delivering account is next to zero. If there were a simple method available the accounts would be closed within the timeframe it takes to identify the similarity between them. Spam accounts just have to be shut down. Tracking the delivery accounts should be the main focus.

 

Now.. do they do this now? Probably not since there are mail boxes everywhere. But my original point stands.. it's not hard, time consuming, or expensive to make spam mule accounts that use stronghold mailboxes for the spam.

As you pointed out, it takes some time for an experienced player to get away from the starter planet which is the additional waste of time the spammers have to deal with. Now if a GM would have an eye over fresh created chars with wordsalad names that stand on starter planets for 2 days without gaining any level, we wouldnt have to suggest to force the spammers to change their methods. But thats not happening.

 

taking out the mailboxes on the starter planets will penalize actual players and will NOT stop the mail spam at all.

Stopping spam might be next to impossible. Im aware of that. But its possible to make it harder, more time consuming and hopefully more expensive for them. In the meantime its easier to identify them before they can start spamming. Again, there is zero penalty for new players who have no need for a mailbox before they see their first enemy to kill because they dont get mail until they progressed in their story abit or veterans who have a stronghold. So far you made no argument why new players or veterans need a mailbox on the starter planet. Nobody did. "But it hurts them."

 

Ripping out mailboxes is an exercise in futility in controlling mail spam, regardless what you personally think.

Just claiming it doesnt make it true, regardless what you personally think. Your method is do nothing, let them spam, be lazy, predictable. The countermethods havent changed in over a decade. Same goes for the excuses and the claims of "active opposition" yet the farmers never have to change their methods. If the devs dont adapt their methods then no amount of our complaints will achieve anything. Fighting windmills from our point of view. But the methods I can think of require more people and cost more money, and thats something the people in charge are not willing to do.

 

Thats why we have to endure constant spam instead of sometimes spam.

[slukslaksla]

This is a topic we have certainly talked about quite a bit in the past. Our fight against credit spammers is always on-going and something that will be tricky to ever resolve 100%. Sometimes we wait to take action to take down entire "rings" of sellers at one time, other times we take more direct frequent action, typically against compromised accounts.

 

We know it can be frustrating and it is something we are constantly looking to address. Always report them when you see them, it helps us immensely in taking them down.

 

-eric

 

 

this is old now and i already posted it on forums but i wanna re post in in case it helps:

 

this happend on progenitor when me and my friend was playing heroics.

link to my youtube channel's vid here:

 

 

saw them again a few weeks ago on eclipse same spot took some screenshots but couldn't locate them im afraid :/

 

but yea this is "proof" of their methods or something lol...

Edited February 3, 2017 by slukslaksla