Galactic Command Gearing Roadmap - Coming This Week

[Deewe]

IWe're getting it now because people are bailing at an alarming rate and they can't figure out what to do to stop it since they refuse to actually hear what their paying customers have spent 4 months telling them.

That plus they don't have the budget to develop in a timely manner.

[Hellhog]

The first set of changes will likely be next week in Game Update 5.1.1. The second set of changes a few weeks later (likely end of Feb) in 5.1.2. I am working on the final details. I am really hoping to get the post out today with all of the details, tomorrow the latest.

 

-eric

 

Eric,

 

Will we be seeing any class balances or fixes with these coming updates? For example utilities like Insulation not working for DPS Assassins or Mercenaries and Commandos having different utilities in the Masterful tier.

[RswanBing]

I believe the boss at a time thing is a last gasp attempt to keep people around. I believe it was supposed to be announced now and released near the end of the year with or without a new expansion. But it was not originally supposed to come out in pieces. We're getting it now because people are bailing at an alarming rate and they can't figure out what to do to stop it since they refuse to actually hear what their paying customers have spent 4 months telling them.

 

Sad but probably true.

 

While reading a Ben Irving interview the other day I found a quote, not about swtor but himself, when he moved from Australia to Austin for this game:

 

"That's always been my philosophy: put yourself out there and do what you want to do. If you fail, then you fail, but at least, you will have no regrets."

 

I just hope he doesn't apply that philosophy to his work, but if he does, that explains a lot about 5.0. He did what he wanted to do and he failed. And he totally hears what players have said for months, he just has no regrets.

Edited February 2, 2017 by RswanBing

[Damedius]

This has already been stated but increasing CXP gain doesn't change anything. The command crates are too RnG. They mostly contain garbage.

 

This isn't going to help at all. I just unsubscribed because the schematic drop rate was nerfed with the last change.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Damedius

[Quraswren]

SNIP...

Actually, it is an attempt to keep end game players subbed. If the first boss isn't something totally stupendous it will fail no matter what else they do. The players will unsub and come back when it's done just like story players did for KotFE.

 

SNIP...

 

Thats very true but there is another possible problem.

 

This is the first boss in an OPS of 5 bosses. What do you think his gear drop rate is as a first boss? Pretty low if you go by other first bosses. There is no reason to think it will be the 100% last boss chance either.

 

I fear that no matter how interesting the boss could be, keeping the similar drop rate of gear as other bosses except the last wont go over well. Yea, you killed the boss. Hope you can use that schematic.. Now get out till next week. I don't see that having a good reception.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Quraswren

[GalacticKegger]

Thats very true but there is another possible problem.

 

This is the first boss in an OPS of 5 bosses. What do you think his gear drop rate is as a first boss? Pretty low if you go by other first bosses. There is no reason to think it will be the 100% last boss chance either.

 

I fear that no matter how interesting the boss could be, keeping the similar drop rate of gear as other bosses except the last wont go over well. Yea, you killed the boss. Hope you can use that schematic.. Now get out till next week. I don't see that having a good reception.

Historically a first boss would drop a few purples from a farmable short list that may or may not be a usable upgrade for anyone in the party. Any pieces that go unused are rolled on to get RE'd into mats for eventual recycling into a piece of usable gear. I would expect comms for all as well, how many will be determined by the progression economy (assuming there is one); as well as some random fluff like cosmetics, stronghold items, pets, emotes, mounts, etc.

 

In theory the heroic area and Uprisings will keep players getting alts prepared for Operations. But I can see players hitting a brick wall after a few months of this and walking away until the last boss comes out. That is assuming GC doesn't chase them away before they ever get started.

 

The real question will be tier-piece related. If we are only getting 5 bosses over the next 10 months to complete the expansion's group end game with, I am assuming each tier set will consist of 5 pieces (head, chest, hands, legs & feet). Will that first boss drop a random slot tier piece? A specific slot tier piece? No tier piece? What about the other bosses? Will tier set completion be gated behind the last boss who we'll have to wait 10 months for? Will we even see tier pieces in Iokath? Or will it focus on base purples? What about difficulty mode considerations? Will they go the cheap route and simply have bosses drop a crate for each player that is guaranteed to contain a gear token?

 

I would ask Ben what exactly is the planned piecemeal progression and gearing system? And please do NOT ram Galactic Command down our throats for this.

Edited February 2, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Avinler]

And since it dropped, this is the least amount of time I have ever spent playing this game. I don't even log in. This gear grind has completely broken my will to play.

 

Same here. That's what I said from the initial announcement of Galactic Command and that's what has happened. I just don't have any motivation to play the game under this system.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

My entire point is that there is no sufficient improvement possible. I think I've been as clear as can be on this.

 

Sweet, unsub and be done with it then. If it can't be improved in your views there is little point to you sticking around to enjoy a "different level of suck" now is there?

The only action you can possibly take that will affect them to revert the system is to stop giving them money.

 

 

There are too many inequities between the playstyles of Operations players and PvP players to make CXP-based gear acquisition fair.

 

That's not true at all.

They could scale back the rate you get unassembled pieces in PVP to match the time investment spent on operations to get gear.

They could remove gearing entirely from PVP though that arguably removes it from the CXP system.

 

The two activities cannot be scaled in a way that is equitable.

 

Says you.

 

"Improving it" has gotten us an additional layer of RNG within the instances, an additional currency, the need to check a light/dark thermometer every hour (soon to be every 30 minutes!) and additional vendors. What's next? Another gold icon on my screen? CXP gain for wipes?

 

So they should just stop trying to improve it? Revert back to the old system? Not going to happen. The sooner you accept this the better.

In the end if we end up with a better than 4.x system AND an additional improved GC system everyone will win.

 

Unfortunately we aren't going to get there with your sort of feedback ... "it can't be improved".

 

When you have to spend more time rolling out fixes than the initial release - isn't that indicative of a problem?

 

Who said or implied there wasn't a problem?

 

I do not care that GC exists for players that do not primarily PvP or run Operations. I'm glad if it's good for them. And sure, keep "monitoring" "tuning" and tweaking". Bolt on whatever is needed to further render this system unrecognizable from its initial state if it helps those players.

 

But it should have nothing to do with how to obtain gear in Operations and nothing to do with how to obtain gear via PvP because it is not a system that can ever serve both functions equitably. I have seen no "improvement" suggested that changes this, nor do I expect to.

 

And now it doesn't because you can ideally skip a GC and gear via those means. Currently they are unbalanced and it still takes far too long to be considered acceptable but that's why tweaks come in.

The tokens ideally you would automatically get enough doing the content to get the gear in the first place.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Here's the deal.

 

People who are upset about GC aren't upset because they hate the game. They are upset because they love the game. They want it to be the success it could be but are frustrated that the dev team isn't making it happen.

.

 

That's certainly true for many people but not for all.

 

Take Wayshuba .. he has blatantly said he will be gone when he unsubs and will not return.

 

Thus all his anti game posts seem to be nothing more than to fan the flames, wind the crowd up.

 

Whilst I get your point I still maintain many could endeavour to be more constructive and then the few who are here purely to fire up the crowd should just be ignored for the most part.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

No - I wanted you to be accurate - you weren't. You claimed gear had always been RNG and that is simply not true. Gear was 100% static from the same boss, guaranteed to drop each and every time. That's the complete opposite of random.

 

No I was completely accurate. I even clarified what I meant and you kept on with it ... as you are still doing.

 

The saying "a dog with a bone" comes to mind.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I think the point Menace was trying to make, while the gear was guaranteed to drop it was not guaranteed you would get the piece so that part was RNG as you were never guaranteed to get anything that dropped. I know I ran some operations and there were times I winded up with nothing from the run.

 

Thank you - someone understood it ( even though I blatantly did clarify the point ).

[Nightblazer]

I hope they keep the interface. I like the window of selecting the specific task I want to do such as Warzones, Ops, Uprisings, etc all from a single interface.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Correct, not only guaranteed to get gear, but guaranteed to get EXACTLY what they focused on. If I needed the MH weapon, I could get it. If I needed the chest, I knew exactly what to do to get it. The drops were guaranteed PER boss. There was nothing random at all about it.

 

You just used "they" and "I" in the same logical reasoning. How does that even make sense?

 

If it's "I" - which is what you've specifically said above - you are either being completely subjective to how your personal guild did things that had a "TUXs gets everything first rule" or you are coming from the view as being the only person who needed that piece. Unless you know something I don't and there are bosses guaranteed to drop enough items for everyone?

 

If not which time and we talking about here? The first run are you guaranteed? The second? Which point is GUARANTEED as you put it? How then if everyone needed that MH do you decide who gets it? I don't see how if everyone needs it any one individual can be guaranteed to get it? How does that happen?

[GalacticKegger]

That's certainly true for many people but not for all.

 

Take Wayshuba .. he has blatantly said he will be gone when he unsubs and will not return.

 

Thus all his anti game posts seem to be nothing more than to fan the flames, wind the crowd up.

 

Whilst I get your point I still maintain many could endeavour to be more constructive and then the few who are here purely to fire up the crowd should just be ignored for the most part.

Neither the game, nor Bioware, is in need of defense; and no defense of either is going to improve their reputation. They will both sink or swim based on their own merits and nothing else.

 

While I won't go into the conduct surrounding calling another individual out by name, I can say that there are a lot of people who are rightfully upset at what has been happening to this game. So as a paying member of this community (as we all are) I would ask that you refrain from making enemies by taunting them. Save your taunts for Tyth.

Edited February 2, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Neither the game, nor Bioware, is in need of defense; and no defense of either is going to improve their reputation. They will both sink or swim based on their own merits and nothing else.

 

While I won't go into the conduct surrounding calling another individual out by name, I can say that there are a lot of people who are rightfully upset at what has been happening to this game. As a paying member of this community I would ask that you not make enemies by taunting them. Save your taunts for Tyth.

 

Enemies? Lol what is this the bloody playground? Judging by a lot of "feedback" it seems it might very well be.

[GalacticKegger]

Enemies? Lol what is this the bloody playground? Judging by a lot of "feedback" it seems it might very well be.

I don't know. Is this the bloody playground? Because if it's not then why try bullying others about their position? What they are saying about the game or Bioware hurts no one. So please refrain from trying to snuff out what others have to say, especially when they take the time and initiative to detail their concerns. Unless you think that Bioware only listens to you? Edited February 2, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The first set of changes will likely be next week in Game Update 5.1.1. The second set of changes a few weeks later (likely end of Feb) in 5.1.2. I am working on the final details. I am really hoping to get the post out today with all of the details, tomorrow the latest.

 

-eric

 

You know you're going to get roasted no matter what the changes are short of "we've put it back to 4.0" so just aim to release it last thing before you head home Friday.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I don't know. Is this the bloody playground? Because if it's not then why try bullying others about their position? What they are saying about the game or Bioware hurts no one. So please refrain from trying to snuff out what others have to say, especially when they take the time and initiative to detail their concerns. Unless you think that Bioware only listens to you?

 

Because there are people who are seemingly doing nothing more than trying to fire up the community ... for what reason .. who knows?

Maybe they found another game that they think is superior to this game because it releases tons more content regularly but for whatever reason they spend most of their time complaining and posting negative attitudes on this game instead of playing that better game whilst they wait for their subscription to expire in this game which they only use to do said complaining and negative posting. *breathes* Oh and then they resub a few weeks later and do it all again.

[curulz]

If not which time and we talking about here? The first run are you guaranteed? The second? Which point is GUARANTEED as you put it? How then if everyone needed that MH do you decide who gets it? I don't see how if everyone needs it any one individual can be guaranteed to get it? How does that happen?

 

come on man, you coming off a little obtuse here but I know you're not.

 

In a PUG run, the distribution of the gear may be random, but not the gear drop itself

 

In an organized raid team, it is more likely that gear would be predetermined in any number of ways, taking the randomness out of it completely. Whether its the first run of EV HM (assuming priority op of the week in 4.0) or the 8th on alts with lock outs is inconsequential. One could be "guaranteed" a MH in this manner.

[GalacticKegger]

Because there are people who are seemingly doing nothing more than trying to fire up the community ... for what reason .. who knows?

Maybe they found another game that they think is superior to this game because it releases tons more content regularly but for whatever reason they spend most of their time complaining and posting negative attitudes on this game instead of playing that better game whilst they wait for their subscription to expire in this game which they only use to do said complaining and negative posting. *breathes* Oh and then they resub a few weeks later and do it all again.

Maybe deep down they want to love this game like they did before Bioware betrayed them, and are continuing to sub, unsub then resub because Bioware's stringing things along has them doing that. And throughout these incessant announcement of an announcement rinse and repeat cycles they simply become more cynical and more vocal with each repeat.

 

You know what the fix for that is? For Bioware to stop jerking people around, grow some stones and come right out with exactly what the game will have and not have in 3 months, 6 months, 12 months and beyond. I promise you the moment that happens is the moment you will finally have peace and quiet here.

Edited February 3, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[MeNaCe-NZ]

come on man, you coming off a little obtuse here but I know you're not.

 

Perhaps but I thought maybe TUXs wanted a taste of his own medicine so to speak.

 

In a PUG run, the distribution of the gear may be random, but not the gear drop itself

 

This was more or less my point - the way we obtain gear was random. You can go back to see I clarified this before it went on and on.

 

In an organized raid team, it is more likely that gear would be predetermined in any number of ways, taking the randomness out of it completely. Whether its the first run of EV HM (assuming priority op of the week in 4.0) or the 8th on alts with lock outs is inconsequential. One could be "guaranteed" a MH in this manner.

 

In my subjective pre organised raid experience this has only been the case if you were the person needing the piece and no one else did. Else you rolled for it with whoever needed it. That's over about 5 guilds and 5 years.

 

Other guilds might very well do it differently but this point is really subjective - the point is as designed there is not enough gear to guarantee everyone a piece of gear per boss. How you then split that out was upto your team but my experience it still had RNG involved.

 

The OTHER point I was trying to illustrate ( and the key point ) is around terminology and people needing to be more clear and concise when they say just "get rid of RNG" because that can mean ...

 

Remove RNG gear drops from the first 4 operation bosses.

Remove RNG gear drops from GC.

Remove RNG chance of X gear drop from GC.

 

To be fair to the first point people have been saying "remove RNG" before that came in too.

 

What I see coming in 5.1.1 and the next one ... improved drop rates ( no guaranteed ), improved GC gain, improved unassembled component drop rate in PVP, etc. - basically same system but improved numerically.

 

As to 5.2 - I imagine we'll see guaranteed drop from the OP boss but RNG what piece(s) this is. Plus new higher rating gear that come from the operations differing modes.

They might use that new higher tier gear to redo GC by reducing the gear tiers range ( not 90 levels, 50 levels instead ) as opposed to outright adding new tiers to GC ( which would cause the forums to literally burn ).

Remember these are just "predictions" - I've not read or saw see anything to confirm any of this.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Maybe deep down they want to love this game like they did before Bioware betrayed them, and are continuing to sub, unsub then resub because Bioware's stringing things along has them doing that. And throughout this announcement of an announcement rinse and repeat cycle they simply become more cynical and more vocal with each repeat.

 

You know what the fix for that is? For Bioware to stop jerking people around, grow some stones and come right out with exactly what the game will have and not have in 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, and in perpetuity. I promise you the moment that happens is the moment you will finally have peace and quiet here.

 

But if BWA are jerking people around and you aren't happy with what is announced why on earth would you resub? Just to say "Hey I needed to pay to tell you - I'm not happy!".

 

As to the poster I mentioned earlier - well I could have just quoted his posts where he basically says no matter what he won't be back to this game which makes me believe there isn't always a reasoned debate going on here with him. Just a smear campaign more or less.

[Kurj]

Look at it this way. If no one had griped, and instead had simply unsubbed, we might not be seeing the current level of communication from the devs. And, regardless of what Eric announces tomorrow, we are going to see whether or not they actually are listening. I'm hoping that we are all pleasantly surprised, and if we are, everyone who posted in this thread - and all of the others - deserves a pat on the back, regardless of what their particular viewpoint was. At the end of the day, the one thing we all have in common is that we love this game enough to both relentlessly attack it when we're not happy, and to vigorously defend it when we are. That's not a bad thing.

[gabigool]

Sweet, unsub and be done with it then. If it can't be improved in your views there is little point to you sticking around to enjoy a "different level of suck" now is there?

The only action you can possibly take that will affect them to revert the system is to stop giving them money.

 

OK, first - I'm not clear on why I should be un-subbing. Because I am recommending a change that is outside the scope of what you suspect is possible?

 

And aren't you the same guy that posted the "Worst business model" thread?

 

That's not true at all.

They could scale back the rate you get unassembled pieces in PVP to match the time investment spent on operations to get gear.

They could remove gearing entirely from PVP though that arguably removes it from the CXP system.

 

Of course it's true. You've just listed two ideas that prove my point.

 

Scale PvP gear acquisition back you say? You believe - honestly - that's what needs to happen? I just stopped laughing so let me ask you this - how do you define "time investment in Operations?" Like a clock? That'll go over great - people afk'ing in Ops is exactly what this game needs.

 

But you don't mean that, do you? You mean bosses killed. Ahh, I gotcha. Here's the problem though. Killed by who? PuGs? Have you PuG'ed ToS lately? EC? What about groups that are trying to kill harder stuff? Groups just getting back into NM that struggle for a night on a boss? Or should you scale it to groups that can Farm HM's and a lot of NM stuff, leaving everyone in the dust? As I said in an earlier unrelated post the number of players doing Ops is debatable, but the size of the skill gap is not. So - anyone behind who you aim it at gets the shaft. Anyone in front has such a massive advantage it's not funny.

 

But, you thought of all that already 'n stuff.

 

Your other idea - removing gear from PvP altogether.... I'm not sure how that's any less farfetched than putting loot back on bosses and bringing back PvP commendations. Regardless though - now you're just screwing Ops players. And forget about the fact that it does not in any way touch my point (which you seem to be ignoring) that a common system for PvP and Operations gearing cannot be equitable.

 

So they should just stop trying to improve it? Revert back to the old system? Not going to happen. The sooner you accept this the better.

In the end if we end up with a better than 4.x system AND an additional improved GC system everyone will win.

 

Unfortunately we aren't going to get there with your sort of feedback ... "it can't be improved".

 

I'm not sure how much clearer I could possibly be in this font - correct, they "should" stop trying to improve it and focus on removing it as the intended primary mechanism for Ops and PvP gearing.

 

You're making a lot of noise but I haven't seen a proposal by anyone, including you, that would be more fair.

 

Who said or implied there wasn't a problem?

 

Context bro. You're failing at trying to play semantics. The problem I am referencing is certainly being glossed over by you. If you need to reread, do so. The fundamental idea of putting Ops and PvP gearing into the same overarching mechanism is a flawed idea. Period. I promise you, if you really want to keep on this - put up a solution with values. I will find the point of failure in under a minute.

 

And now it doesn't because you can ideally skip a GC and gear via those means. Currently they are unbalanced and it still takes far too long to be considered acceptable but that's why tweaks come in.

The tokens ideally you would automatically get enough doing the content to get the gear in the first place.

I have not seen anything that makes me believe this is even remotely reality, because at the end of the day gear still requires a constant throughput of CXP. And you haven't defined "doing the content" in a way that is equitable for PvP and PvE players.

 

I do not disagree the system could be tuned to be fine for one or the other. But I am saying it cannot be for both, and the best you're hitting back with is "yes it can" and some backsass. Show me an actual fix that is fair for all, with numbers, or you have nothing.

Edited February 3, 2017 by gabigool

[GalacticKegger]

But if BWA are jerking people around and you aren't happy with what is announced why on earth would you resub? Just to say "Hey I needed to pay to tell you - I'm not happy!".

 

As to the poster I mentioned earlier - well I could have just quoted his posts where he basically says no matter what he won't be back to this game which makes me believe there isn't always a reasoned debate going on here with him. Just a smear campaign more or less.

Some people will be happy with Operations but won't be happy with Galactic Command. Some won't be happy with Operations but will be happy with Galactic Command. Some people will be happy with both, and some will be happy with neither. All positions are valid and deserve equal respect.

 

Taking issue with any one of those is pointless because they are merely preferences and nothing else. Preference (however voiced) and why that preference is important is not verbal combat, though I find it eminently amusing that some get offended enough to lash out at it like it's going to steal their blanky from them. It is simply voiced data (i.e. feedback) the devs can use. Interrupting that data flow prevents the dev's from doing their job. Let it go so the devs can see other people's words with their own eyes.

 

And so what if there are elements of smear in the data if the data is accurate? Other than shareholders, what's smear to anyone outside of BWA's building anyway?

Edited February 3, 2017 by GalacticKegger