How did 5.0 and 5.1 improve the gearing system?

[Lhancelot]

I want to honestly see the other side of the coin and have it explained sensibly by someone that likes the changes that came with 5.0 and 5.1.

 

Please explain how the gearing system and bolster is better now compared to how bolster and the gearing system was working in 4.0.

[Romeugues]

They gave casual players(i.e don't do operations) access to higher tiers of gear as long as they wanted to treat SWTOR like a full time job. Edited January 29, 2017 by Romeugues

[Ranstasia]

I can't say much about the difference how bolster worked in 4.0 to how it works in the 5.0 + era. Only time before that I've even dabbled with it was some years ago when , if I remember correctly putting a blue hilt/barrel in ones mh gave better output than the best available pvp hilt because some bolster issue.

 

Apart from that 2018 expertise was mandatory for me on hitting max level and doing pvp. Even though I played lower level pvp as well. Considering the Teutonic shifts in power between classes as they gain differently in relative strength all the way to level cap. It was of little to no concern even there though bolster was the sole source of expertise until cap.

 

Between 5.0 when bolster was equivalent to 250 and the change in 5.1 to 232 I've noticed ( N.B speaking only for myself) no major difference, in pvp that is. Perhaps a slight nudge towards favoring DPS more and HPS less as TTK seems to have gone down a notch. A good thing in my opinion. Time will tell.

 

In general I think removing expertise as a stat is a good thing, at least as long as things don't go haywire (as it seems to have done with the DvL armor, nothing I have or will try as it bears no meaning for me gaining advantage that way. )My reasoning in thinking this is that the less stats I have to look at to min/max the better. Having a tank as main already requires multiple sets to be efficient. In 5.0 and 5.1 even though I carry a PvE set and a PvP set its mostly different augments and left side stuff I dabble with.

 

Even as pvp got its issues, in my opinion gear is not at the moment at least one of them. The absolute worst PvP I have ever experienced was around Christmas. With hacking being so common in all types of pvp that I stopped playing. This seems to have been handled by bw even though nothing has been said. At least from where I stand it has almost ceased to happen.

 

As for the introduction of galactic command and how we progress I like how it functions. Opening up gearing paths independent of what part of the game players wish to experience. Pre 5.0 the only way to attain BiS PvP/PvE gear was ops or pvp. And no matter what others experienced, mine is that it was a massive grind. Sure I could blow up EV/KP each week to get stuff, and I did but nowhere was that fun or felt deserved. It was a way to get alts decked out. Sure I could get me a starter kit for pvp instantly. But to get the good stuff it took a while.

 

What I strongly dislike with GC is the random nature. Having to trust in luck is never a good thing, it is what it is but its terribly annoying to upgrade my 4th earpiece by 2 item levels and still be running around with 224 boots. So I don't care much for the execution. I had rather had, if a random model must be used, that instead of gear each time I open a crate i get some random amount of unassembled gear tokens. With the minimum and maximum amount increasing depending on command level. This way I could progress with intent and not with chance.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Ranstasia
spelling

[Lhancelot]

I can't say much about the difference how bolster worked in 4.0 to how it works in the 5.0 + era. Only time before that I've even dabbled with it was some years ago when , if I remember correctly putting a blue hilt/barrel in ones mh gave better output than the best available pvp hilt because some bolster issue.

 

Apart from that 2018 expertise was mandatory for me on hitting max level and doing pvp. Even though I played lower level pvp as well. Considering the Teutonic shifts in power between classes as they gain differently in relative strength all the way to level cap. It was of little to no concern even there though bolster was the sole source of expertise until cap.

 

Between 5.0 when bolster was equivalent to 250 and the change in 5.1 to 232 I've noticed ( N.B speaking only for myself) no major difference, in pvp that is. Perhaps a slight nudge towards favoring DPS more and HPS less as TTK seems to have gone down a notch. A good thing in my opinion. Time will tell.

 

In general I think removing expertise as a stat is a good thing, at least as long as things don't go haywire (as it seems to have done with the DvL armor, nothing I have or will try as it bears no meaning for me gaining advantage that way. )My reasoning in thinking this is that the less stats I have to look at to min/max the better. Having a tank as main already requires multiple sets to be efficient. In 5.0 and 5.1 even though I carry a PvE set and a PvP set its mostly different augments and left side stuff I dabble with.

 

Even as pvp got its issues, in my opinion gear is not at the moment at least one of them. The absolute worst PvP I have ever experienced was around Christmas. With hacking being so common in all types of pvp that I stopped playing. This seems to have been handled by bw even though nothing has been said. At least from where I stand it has almost ceased to happen.

 

As for the introduction of galactic command and how we progress I like how it functions. Opening up gearing paths independent of what part of the game players wish to experience. Pre 5.0 the only way to attain BiS PvP/PvE gear was ops or pvp. And no matter what others experienced, mine is that it was a massive grind. Sure I could blow up EV/KP each week to get stuff, and I did but nowhere was that fun or felt deserved. It was a way to get alts decked out. Sure I could get me a starter kit for pvp instantly. But to get the good stuff it took a while.

 

What I strongly dislike with GC is the random nature. Having to trust in luck is never a good thing, it is what it is but its terribly annoying to upgrade my 4th earpiece by 2 item levels and still be running around with 224 boots. So I don't care much for the execution. I had rather had, if a random model must be used, that instead of gear each time I open a crate i get some random amount of unassembled gear tokens. With the minimum and maximum amount increasing depending on command level. This way I could progress with intent and not with chance.

 

I see. Even someone who finds the new gearing system tolerable you still do not enjoy the RNG aspect to it.

 

I am just surprised that you felt that getting top PVP gears was a grind though, because I never felt it was much of a grind at all.

 

It just goes to show how everyone's perspective is different when judging the same thing.

 

I respect your position on the topic.

 

I just hope some of the more fervent supporters can chime in with their opinions.

 

I am not surprised they have not bothered responding to this thread. They rather just criticize the critical feedback instead of actually providing any personal feelings as to what they enjoy or like about the new gearing system.

[wainot-keel]

Define improvement in this context.

 

Anyways, I don't see it as an improvement since I honestly believe that wasn't the idea behind this design. The whole point of this GC gearing is imposing a massive grind and nothing more. So very slow and frustrating due to how awful the RNG is.

 

I think the worst part is for pvp. The system in 4.0 was simply perfect. If you were interested in pvp, with little work you could get a full 204 set and be competitive. Having fun was right there. 208 was merely a small upgrade and it didn't really take that long. By doing enough WZs to complete the dailies every day in a couple of weeks you had enough to upgrade everything. Gear gap was virtually non existant, so team work and personal skill were the most important thing. That is a good thing for pvp.

And since expertise mattered, that prevented pve players going to WZs with their 216/220/224 sets and roflstomp everybody. In WZs, pvp players were protected from pve. IMO, for pve makes sense a gear progression since there are very clear levels of difficulty. For pvp, not really

 

In 4.0, the main problem to be handled by BW was class balance. But the gear gap now that this GC system creates is another big issue on top of that. That makes even a bigger mess.

 

5.1 didn't do much to ease things for pvp.

The costs for the non-RNG route are just insanely high so this does little when you're struggling with the awful RNG from crates. And it only contributes to the gear gap that is a bad thing in pvp, since there is a big difference between winning and losing. New players (or someone using an alt) will be farmed by well geared players because now gears matters in pvp. So in a sense, they're only making it worse because those who have a gear advantage will get more components (and cxp) and therefore will have more gear to keep the advantage.

 

I think for pve 5.1 did make things significantly better.

In terms of hours played, I spend more time pvping than pveing. With my guild we only raid twice on the weekends, for about 2 and a half hours. With the harmodes we cleared this weekend, we all got two 236 pieces, and two got 3. Yes, we were lucky with bosses dropping tokens but when they do, they drop 2 of them.

I got implant and head so that translate to 450 Unassemble components with the pvp route. No way I can farm that many components in 5 hours of WZs. It's certainly not 4.0 but at this rate (with a bit of luck , yes) we will be funneling 236 gear to alts or offspecs in a rather short term

 

I can't really speak about bolster. In 4.0 all it was for me boiled down to: "gear with no expertise, no more than 190 rating" and that was it.

Bolster in 5.0, well, I read Hottie's thread and all her findings but that seem like a huge mess and couldn't be arsed with any of it. I just upgraded my gear with whatever I was getting, even if that wasn't the best thing to do

 

Yes, I am fully aware this is not what OP asked, in fact the opposite, but the question itself implies this is better and I strongly disagree. Specially if we're talking about pvp

[Lhancelot]

Define improvement in this context.

 

Anyways, I don't see it as an improvement since I honestly believe that wasn't the idea behind this design. The whole point of this GC gearing is imposing a massive grind and nothing more. So very slow and frustrating due to how awful the RNG is.

 

I think the worst part is for pvp. The system in 4.0 was simply perfect. If you were interested in pvp, with little work you could get a full 204 set and be competitive. Having fun was right there. 208 was merely a small upgrade and it didn't really take that long. By doing enough WZs to complete the dailies every day in a couple of weeks you had enough to upgrade everything. Gear gap was virtually non existant, so team work and personal skill were the most important thing. That is a good thing for pvp.

And since expertise mattered, that prevented pve players going to WZs with their 216/220/224 sets and roflstomp everybody. In WZs, pvp players were protected from pve. IMO, for pve makes sense a gear progression since there are very clear levels of difficulty. For pvp, not really

 

In 4.0, the main problem to be handled by BW was class balance. But the gear gap now that this GC system creates is another big issue on top of that. That makes even a bigger mess.

 

5.1 didn't do much to ease things for pvp.

The costs for the non-RNG route are just insanely high so this does little when you're struggling with the awful RNG from crates. And it only contributes to the gear gap that is a bad thing in pvp, since there is a big difference between winning and losing. New players (or someone using an alt) will be farmed by well geared players because now gears matters in pvp. So in a sense, they're only making it worse because those who have a gear advantage will get more components (and cxp) and therefore will have more gear to keep the advantage.

 

I think for pve 5.1 did make things significantly better.

In terms of hours played, I spend more time pvping than pveing. With my guild we only raid twice on the weekends, for about 2 and a half hours. With the harmodes we cleared this weekend, we all got two 236 pieces, and two got 3. Yes, we were lucky with bosses dropping tokens but when they do, they drop 2 of them.

I got implant and head so that translate to 450 Unassemble components with the pvp route. No way I can farm that many components in 5 hours of WZs. It's certainly not 4.0 but at this rate (with a bit of luck , yes) we will be funneling 236 gear to alts or offspecs in a rather short term

 

I can't really speak about bolster. In 4.0 all it was for me boiled down to: "gear with no expertise, no more than 190 rating" and that was it.

Bolster in 5.0, well, I read Hottie's thread and all her findings but that seem like a huge mess and couldn't be arsed with any of it. I just upgraded my gear with whatever I was getting, even if that wasn't the best thing to do

 

Yes, I am fully aware this is not what OP asked, in fact the opposite, but the question itself implies this is better and I strongly disagree. Specially if we're talking about pvp

 

It's fine to express the negatives about the new gearing system you did it in a very well-written, concise manner. Pretty much explained it in very fine detail too, especially with regards to how it is and will affect PVP.

 

Still waiting for the greatest defenders of the new system to explain how and why the system is an improvement, or to clarify as you did it's not really an improvement just a change in direction regarding how to gear up.

 

For all the negative feedback compared to the positive feedback I have to gather the new gearing system has been a huge failure in the eyes of the majority of players.

 

Hopefully that motivates the devs to implement less RNG and more gear drops, and soon.

[Janglor]

The RNG gearing strategy was such a miserable failure at launch it damn near killed the game and forced the biggest budget MMO of all time to go F2P inside of a calendar year.

 

So why not try it again? What could possibly go wrong.....

[jedcjedcjedc]

It's not really an improvement, but it's also not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. Increase the component gains and its fine.

[falkron-kerupt]

It's not really an improvement, but it's also not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. Increase the component gains and its fine.

 

enjoying yourself with a bad bolster and dvl exploit. Kinda obvious every time you post that this 5.1 is fine and not bad like many others mention.Increasing components not only thing that needs to be done and you know that but you rather support this system because why exactly .As some one posted earlier in this thread give reasons to explain how you think this system is fine as is because i want to laugh.Stead all you do is post bogus remarks. Sry the game is not going to cater to the small percentage of people that say the game is fine.Look all over the forums nothing but people and lots of people upset with current game setting just cause you think its fine does not mean it is.

 

Plz if your going to post anything in response make it logical and backed with theories or evidence supporting your thoughts which you never do. because all you are is a troll and a bad one at that.

Edited January 30, 2017 by falkron-kerupt

[jedcjedcjedc]

enjoying yourself with a bad bolster and dvl exploit. Kinda obvious every time you post that this 5.1 is fine and not bad like many others mention.

 

It's pretty obvious whenever you post how little you know and how bad you are at paying attention. I do not have any DvL gear, I wasn't even playing during that time. There are also several SS's floating around showing my gear and setup so yet again, you are completely off point.

[falkron-kerupt]

It's pretty obvious whenever you post how little you know and how bad you are at paying attention. I do not have any DvL gear, I wasn't even playing during that time. There are also several SS's floating around showing my gear and setup so yet again, you are completely off point.

 

No your right so you have your full set of 240s and armorings ? so you don't need to grind like the rest because you spent a ton of hours to get and have no job.How bout you stop with your nonsense and read my post above as far as bad goes you take the cake mr troll.

Edited January 30, 2017 by falkron-kerupt

[Lhancelot]

It's not really an improvement, but it's also not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. Increase the component gains and its fine.

 

Can you elaborate as to what is fine with 5.0 and 5.1?

 

Essentially by what you say here when you say it's "not an improvement", "not as bad as people say", this just makes it sound like you agree it's actually worse than the old gearing system.

 

Is it fair to surmise that you feel the gearing system is actually worse as the system stands right now, compared to how it was before 5.0 and 5.1?

 

If not, then what in your mind has improved with 5.0 and 5.1?

[falkron-kerupt]

Can you elaborate as to what is fine with 5.0 and 5.1?

 

Essentially by what you say here when you say it's "not an improvement", "not as bad as people say", this just makes it sound like you agree it's actually worse than the old gearing system.

 

Is it fair to surmise that you feel the gearing system is actually worse as the system stands right now, compared to how it was before 5.0 and 5.1?

 

If not, then what in your mind has improved with 5.0 and 5.1?

 

Dude that would imply that he stay on topic obviously he not about the topic but about the trolling. Yet he accuses me of being off topic. pot calling kettle black.

[Lhancelot]

Dude that would imply that he stay on topic obviously he not about the topic but about the trolling. Yet he accuses me of being off topic. pot calling kettle black.

 

I just want to hear a straight forward answer from him and others who keep arguing with the players who create threads expressing their unhappiness with 5.0 and 5.1.

 

If Qwurd, Jedc and others feel so impassioned to argue that it's "not as bad as people say", then why not share what is good and improved about the new gearing system?

 

I ask because perhaps I am in the dark and missing something here.

 

From my perspective, I see not one improvement, not one with 5.0 and 5.1.

 

I just want to hear the opinion from those that like to debate the supposed negatives posed by other players of this system to actually shine some light as to what it is they see in 5.0 and 5.1 that has improved PVP and made the gearing system better.

 

Otherwise, I fail to see what their reasoning is to constantly contradict the negative feedback that the majority of players are giving on this new system, other than to be contrarian.

[falkron-kerupt]

I just want to hear a straight forward answer from him and others who keep arguing with the players who create threads expressing their unhappiness with 5.0 and 5.1.

 

If Qwurd, Jedc and others feel so impassioned to argue that it's "not as bad as people say", then why not share what is good and improved about the new gearing system?

 

I ask because perhaps I am in the dark and missing something here.

 

From my perspective, I see not one improvement, not one with 5.0 and 5.1.

 

I just want to hear the opinion from those that like to debate the supposed negatives posed by other players of this system to actually shine some light as to what it is they see in 5.0 and 5.1 that has improved PVP and made the gearing system better.

 

Otherwise, I fail to see what their reasoning is to constantly contradict the negative feedback that the majority of players are giving on this new system, other than to be contrarian.

 

I agree with you hence why i called him out. previously on his bad trolling attempts

[jedcjedcjedc]

Can you elaborate as to what is fine with 5.0 and 5.1?

 

Essentially by what you say here when you say it's "not an improvement", "not as bad as people say", this just makes it sound like you agree it's actually worse than the old gearing system.

 

Is it fair to surmise that you feel the gearing system is actually worse as the system stands right now, compared to how it was before 5.0 and 5.1?

 

If not, then what in your mind has improved with 5.0 and 5.1?

It's definitely worse than 4.0, there isn't even a question there. It's easily managable though, and the changes are not nearly as game-breaking as people have been saying. I've stated it needed changes since the begning (including the post you quoted) but with bolster going most of the way and crafting allowing you most of the rest of the way, making the entry tier gear more accessible while making the gearing process faster overall (I.E increasing component gain) would make the system go from manageable to fine. Allowing a method of gaining them in lower levels would make it a slightly worse version of 4.0

 

I agree with you hence why i called him out. previously on his bad trolling attempts

you can't see it but I'm rolling my eyes. I have yet to see a meaningful post from you. I really don't think you know the meaning of the word troll.

[falkron-kerupt]

you can't see it but I'm rolling my eyes. I have yet to see a meaningful post from you. I really don't think you know the meaning of the word troll.

 

 

Pot calling kettle black again. where have you answered anything relative to any post other then to be contradictive with no evidence or theory to back up your claims that things are okay.

 

Plz do keep telling us to use crafted components. must be you have not noticed the significant difference between crafted dropped and vender.

 

relics dropped and vendored have crit on them crafted does not. implants ears can be bought on gtn as well but cant be traded in for the next tier so you wasted alot of creds for something you will have to get off the vendor anyways if you want the next tier of gear.Not to mention the significant difference between the crafted ears implants and the dropped versions of same gear rating. This system is utter crap and your are kidding yourself to say otherwise. Yet you still have not given any viable reason as to why you think this system is fine as is. Stead you just troll nonsense on these forums must be your day job trolling.

Edited January 30, 2017 by falkron-kerupt

[falkron-kerupt]

of course he wont reply instead he put me on ignore because i am correct with what im calling him out on.

[Zombiesalmon]

I'd like to keep my thoughts on 5.0 , 5.1 pretty simple

 

 

The Good:

I like that I can do any content and it still helps me advance towards end game gear.

 

The Bad:

Even with the 5.1 changes I will not be playing my many alts until something changes(i.e. galactic command becomes a legacy shared level). I can do any content I like but am stuck to one character if I went to get the next tier of gear.

 

Bottom line:

System has solved one problem: getting me to do more than just PvP, but created another problem: I will not be using my alts if I want to advance. Playing alts in PvP has kept me subbing since early access

[Lhancelot]

It's definitely worse than 4.0, there isn't even a question there.

 

Alright, if you can admit this then obviously you are not being antagonistic just for the hell of it. I am surprised you admit 4.0 was better tbh.

 

If they rolled the stupid patches back, I am pretty sure the vast majority would celebrate in glee seeing even those like yourself who see it not as bad as most admit that this newest rendition of gearing is "definitely worse" than 4.0.

 

Too bad they won't post a vote on the forums and in game asking if we'd like a roll back, or to keep it as is. I would love, LOVE to see the numbers on a poll or vote regarding 5.0 and 5.1 and if people are happy with it or not.

 

If they cared about what the players wanted they would actually have a communication system in place that worked between players and the devs/representatives of this company but nah, they don't.

[Lhancelot]

Playing alts in PvP has kept me subbing since early access

 

My favorite thing on this game has been the ability to create tons of alts for PVP, and to gear them all via PVP only. I also really enjoy playing dress-up barbie on all my alts with the appearance customizations the game offers.

 

What I don't like in swtor is the raids, I don't like their stories that much, never play GSF, so when they try to force us to play facets I don't like it only makes me more angry and frustrated.

[mmmbuddah]

5.0 was ok because bolster was good. 5.1 ruined gearing completely and came out in COMPLETE favor with people who live and breathe this game.

[Mikeieveli]

The RNG gearing strategy was such a miserable failure at launch it damn near killed the game and forced the biggest budget MMO of all time to go F2P inside of a calendar year.

 

So why not try it again? What could possibly go wrong.....

 

Thats not what did it. It was that the game was released as a beta. Bugs that werent taken care of, class specs that were overpowered or underpowered without fine tuning, lack of end game pvp arenas and the removal of 8v8 ranked all killed the population. Yes the RNG system didnt help, but there were tokens that were available back then too to purchase more packs.

[Mikeieveli]

It's not really an improvement, but it's also not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. Increase the component gains and its fine.

 

I agree with this, but I think they should take it a step further. When you grind gear it can take as long as devs want it as long as it FEELS like you are progressing. What BW should do for the RNG is this:

 

Tier 1 Command: as is...

Tier 2 Command: Remove greens from loot table

Tier 3 Command: Remove blues from loot table

 

For all tiers add unassembled components OR increase unassembled components gain AND/OR lower unassembled components cost.

 

Removing lower gear from the loot table you will see more gear of the item level you desire thus making you feel like you are progressing. Its really bad to see green piece of gear pop up when you have all blues or purples or combination. I dont mind not needing or being able to use the gear but at least let it be on the same item level. Then I will feel like I am progressing.

 

Unassembled component rewards and cost need to change from what they are now. I have no idea how they thought anyone could gear an alt with the system that they implemented. Also, the unassembled system is unnecessarily overly complex. I can understand why the want to make the gearing more grindy, so they have time to put quality OPs and such out, but they need to make some changes to it.

 

IMO, those changes would greatly improve the system and would be a win for players and devs alike.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Mikeieveli

[Qwurdilu]

What makes 5.0 or 5.1 better? Incentive.

 

I do not have any DvL gear, I wasn't even playing during that time.

 

Many players werent. In fact, midway through 4.0 this game lost tremendous amounts of players. At least thats what i saw. In pvp forum we saw posts about how people dont play objective anymore, and i know a lot of people who didnt even accepted a new daily after they geared their 7th twink, they just played warzones for fun. But for sure they didnt care to play another game for finishing a daily, if they hadnt fun anymore, they just quit. Thats why this game lost so many players to overwatch or other games temporarily, there was no reason to not try another game because you literally missed out on nothing in swtor pvp. From what i can tell, a lot returned with 5.0 and many stayed. Pops are better now, i already played more teamranked games than i did the complete last season. Since 5.0 people have a reason again to do daily and weeklys. In terms of longtime motivation, 4.0 was a declaration of bankruptcy and people who wish back 4.0 most likely have rose tinted glasses. Of course its fun short term to have BiS after a few hours played, but long term that system was superbad.

 

Its modern psychology that says humans need incentives. Thats why we play some sportsmen millions of dollars, and thats why every game has some form of achievements and grind. In swtor 4.0 there was nothing to gain in pvp. 5.0 did intruduce that.

 

The second thing i like, they finally got rid of pvp-pve gear. I wished for that for so long. I always wanted to run some ops, but fun for me includes a challenge, and prior to 5.0 i couldnt run modes that were a challenge with my pvp gear. Now all i need to do is switch some augments and im prepared for hc. Today i just beat my first nim boss. I wouldnt have done that if there still be pvp-pve gear because of the lack of incentive to so. If it werent for 5.0, i wouldnt touch ops for another 5 years.

 

With all that beeing said, i think the biggest problem is in documentation or introduction.

I think the system has excellent approaches, but its very complicated and bioware should have introduced it much better.

The goal was to make an easy system but that failed miserably. In fact, its that complicated that even experienced players like snave dont really get how to gear up efficiently.

It was also a mistake to lock recipes behind cxp and nim because that completely ****ed economy. The early adopters are now billionaires.

 

They should also have documented much more about what their goals with bolster were and how it works. A lot of people dont have a clue about stats, and theres just way too many misinformation and hearsay going around in this community.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Qwurdilu