CXP Pros/Cons from a founders perspective

[ShinDoRai]

FIX RNG, or FIX NOT RNG. that IS THE BUG !

[FerkWork]

Problem isn't CXP imho. It's the fact that I Distengrate almost all of my crates crates and only after 50+ crates I get something that's an actual upgrade. This is the first expansion since I started in 2.0 I had a full new 6 piece set bonus on a toon after playing this long in every expac save this one. Mind you this is all 230 entry level gear lol and I haven't even gotten duplicates lol.

 

Here are my ranks and useful items I have acquired.

 

Sniper 117: 2 Set pieces

Merc 42: 1 Implant and 1 Relic

Assassin 52: 1 Set Piece

Shadow 35: Nothing

PT 12: Nothing

VG: 10: Nothing

Mara 10: Nothing

Gunslinger 7: Nothing

 

 

How to fix this: Get rid of green gear drops from crates. Adjust drop rates so that by the time you leave a tier you have a complete set from it. Get rid of useless relics or let use choose.

 

This is main problem for me. I'll grind but only if I know it's worth it. To me I have a better chance of getting 6 set bonus pieces and left side from Ops than from crates. Which is funny as the drops were suppose to be supplemental to crates. Also grind should be about rewarding challenging content over grinding faceroll content or throwing snowballs. My 2 cents

Edited January 27, 2017 by FerkWork

[ShinDoRai]

Sniper 117: 2 Set pieces

Merc 42: 1 Implant and 1 Relic

Assassin 52: 1 Set Piece

Shadow 35: Nothing

PT 12: Nothing

VG: 10: Nothing

Mara 10: Nothing

Gunslinger 7: Nothing

 

so u got 5 things out of 285 level grind works as intended rofl

and that for 8 classes where u got more for crystals pre 5.0 for all ur toons

[DanNV]

so u got 5 things out of 285 level grind works as intended rofl

and that for 8 classes where u got more for crystals pre 5.0 for all ur toons

 

Honestly, I believe it is working as intended. That doesn't mean it's working like a player wants or in a way to encourage play, but it is working exactly as designed,

[FerkWork]

so u got 5 things out of 285 level grind works as intended rofl

and that for 8 classes where u got more for crystals pre 5.0 for all ur toons

 

By the end of 4.0 I had every 220/224 Set bonus in the game Excessive but I never farmed EV or KP. Most of it from NiM or Rav/ToS. And PvP gear for all my toons.

 

By the end of 3.0 was the same for all my toons.

 

2.0 Same for all one of my toons at max level.

 

FeelsBadMan

Edited January 28, 2017 by FerkWork

[Deewe]

Problem isn't CXP imho. It's the fact that I Distengrate almost all of my crates.

Guess we are all in the same situation.

 

At least we're getting some CXP out of them which is an improvement vs the unsellable junk in the CM packs.

[Ramalina]

FIX RNG, or FIX NOT RNG. that IS THE BUG !

 

PvE gearing in SWTOR has always been RNG, and it's not RNG that's the problem.

 

The problem is the low probability of a drop.

 

If the probability P(x) of a tier set item is 0.95 ( 95% drop chance translating from math to normal language), then there's really not much difference between RNG and deterministic system that gives nothing on the first try, and guarantees a drop on the next 9 tries.

 

My guess based on very insufficient data, is that the tier (meaning set bonus, or equivalent quality ear, implant, or relic) item drop rate is somewhere in the 1% to 5% range.

 

So your chance of getting a full set of tier 1 gear while in tier 1 is close to zero. I haven't gotten into the higher tiers yet, but if that holds, then you'll need fairly good luck to have a full 6 piece set bonus when you hit level 300 in the Galactic Command grind even if you mix tiers 1, 2 and 3.

 

The 300 isn't where you're expected to finish gearing, it's not even where you're finally supposed to get a set bonus. It's just supposed to be an upper limit on the amount of playtime you need to get the next crate. So the developers apparently do believe that there is such a thing as, "too much grind."

 

The Galactic Command system has at least three core design goals, and it fulfills those goals very, very well.

 

• The first goal is to allow people to gear their characters with endgame appropriate gear by doing any of the endgame activities.
   
  
• The second goal is to use gear reward rates to encourage people to play a wide variety of endgame content.
   
  
• The third goal is to drastically increase the amount of played time it takes to gear a character in the top rated endgame gear compared to the past 3 expansions.
  

 

They hit solid homeruns on all three of those goals, though I think they could have been more efficient on number three. The drop rates on gear are so low that characters are unlikely to complete tier 1 and tier 2 gear sets before they get to the point where they are earning tier 3 gear. So instead of driving players to grind through 3 entire sets of gear, the system now pushes them to complete something like 1.3 to 1.7 sets of gear, depending on how unlucky the player is (basically if you have bad luck you get to skip tier 1 and tier 2. Should we be happy or sad about this?).

 

A small part of the problem with acceptance may be that people are only getting a few pieces of tier 1 and tier 2 before they hit tier 3. There's no moment of feeling that you've completed a beginner or intermediate set, it's just one long continuous grind.

 

TL;DR version. GC does not suck because of RNG, there was plenty of RNG in the old system. GC gearing sucks because it was carefully and effectively designed to be an extremely long grind. It does what it was meant to do, and it does it very well.

 

Where they came up with the idea that long time players, ie the core audience for endgame content, would like the extreme grind function of GC, I have no idea. Whoever their supplier for that idea was, they should return the idea as defective and try to get a refund.

[Deewe]

PvE gearing in SWTOR has always been RNG, and it's not RNG that's the problem.

 

The problem is the low probability of a drop.

 

If the probability P(x) of a tier set item is 0.95 ( 95% drop chance translating from math to normal language), then there's really not much difference between RNG and deterministic system that gives nothing on the first try, and guarantees a drop on the next 9 tries.

 

My guess based on very insufficient data, is that the tier (meaning set bonus, or equivalent quality ear, implant, or relic) item drop rate is somewhere in the 1% to 5% range.

 

So your chance of getting a full set of tier 1 gear while in tier 1 is close to zero. I haven't gotten into the higher tiers yet, but if that holds, then you'll need fairly good luck to have a full 6 piece set bonus when you hit level 300 in the Galactic Command grind even if you mix tiers 1, 2 and 3.

 

The 300 isn't where you're expected to finish gearing, it's not even where you're finally supposed to get a set bonus. It's just supposed to be an upper limit on the amount of playtime you need to get the next crate. So the developers apparently do believe that there is such a thing as, "too much grind."

 

The Galactic Command system has at least three core design goals, and it fulfills those goals very, very well.

 

• The first goal is to allow people to gear their characters with endgame appropriate gear by doing any of the endgame activities.
   
  
• The second goal is to use gear reward rates to encourage people to play a wide variety of endgame content.
   
  
• The third goal is to drastically increase the amount of played time it takes to gear a character in the top rated endgame gear compared to the past 3 expansions.
  

 

They hit solid homeruns on all three of those goals, though I think they could have been more efficient on number three. The drop rates on gear are so low that characters are unlikely to complete tier 1 and tier 2 gear sets before they get to the point where they are earning tier 3 gear. So instead of driving players to grind through 3 entire sets of gear, the system now pushes them to complete something like 1.3 to 1.7 sets of gear, depending on how unlucky the player is (basically if you have bad luck you get to skip tier 1 and tier 2. Should we be happy or sad about this?).

 

A small part of the problem with acceptance may be that people are only getting a few pieces of tier 1 and tier 2 before they hit tier 3. There's no moment of feeling that you've completed a beginner or intermediate set, it's just one long continuous grind.

 

TL;DR version. GC does not suck because of RNG, there was plenty of RNG in the old system. GC gearing sucks because it was carefully and effectively designed to be an extremely long grind. It does what it was meant to do, and it does it very well.

 

Where they came up with the idea that long time players, ie the core audience for endgame content, would like the extreme grind function of GC, I have no idea. Whoever their supplier for that idea was, they should return the idea as defective and try to get a refund.

I think you nailed it but for

• "The second goal is to use gear reward rates to encourage people to play a wide variety of endgame content."
  

 

Reason is the CXP rate isn't balanced so for now uprising and PvP give the best rates.

[ShinDoRai]

• The first goal is to allow people to gear their characters with endgame appropriate gear by doing any of the endgame activities.
   
  
• The second goal is to use gear reward rates to encourage people to play a wide variety of endgame content.
   
  
• The third goal is to drastically increase the amount of played time it takes to gear a character in the top rated endgame gear compared to the past 3 expansions.
  

 

 

do or do not... mhg K

 

1. cxp could be attached to the already existing gearing as a second path for solo gimps/noobs. nobody would be harmed or would be angry

 

2nd. nobody wannted to play boring content wich wasnt interesting enough pre 4.0 or even now with 5.0. but with no related endgame they throw all relevant content in and tied it to CXP. and nerfing golds and above this trash, illustrates that even more.

 

3rd. everybody played what they wannted with the freedom (twinks) of gearing vs playtime invested. wich means u got everywhere gear from every corner. even solo players could buy gear for crystals. but they decided, its not the way we should play.

and also the minority (soloplayers) during 4.0 could archive bis gear 224 during this cycle if they wannted and had the ambition. and other minoritys cryed loud enough they couldnt archieve bis 224.

 

i cant see any pro of this system. not a single thing.

and by that they also removed vendors/drops/gear and what i do not know yet everything. seeing not completed patchnotes undlerline this hard.

and for this crap rising the level cap twice with 4.0 and 5.0 for 10 levels ( 5+5 =10 ), i cant see any reasonable occasion for this.

 

ps.: also it looks like, and thats my opinion, they cut 4.0 story + 5.0 story + what now comes along this year, should be put in a completed addon. and all after that was not planed. so they cut it in pieces and sold it to us, so they have more time to create new stuff. it all loks like this was made to buy them some time and milk us more. and now they play bewildered like in a bad soap opera. think about it

 

pps.: replace girl with swtor

Edited January 28, 2017 by ShinDoRai

[FerkWork]

PvE gearing in SWTOR has always been RNG, and it's not RNG that's the problem.

 

The problem is the low probability of a drop.

 

If the probability P(x) of a tier set item is 0.95 ( 95% drop chance translating from math to normal language), then there's really not much difference between RNG and deterministic system that gives nothing on the first try, and guarantees a drop on the next 9 tries.

 

My guess based on very insufficient data, is that the tier (meaning set bonus, or equivalent quality ear, implant, or relic) item drop rate is somewhere in the 1% to 5% range.

 

So your chance of getting a full set of tier 1 gear while in tier 1 is close to zero. I haven't gotten into the higher tiers yet, but if that holds, then you'll need fairly good luck to have a full 6 piece set bonus when you hit level 300 in the Galactic Command grind even if you mix tiers 1, 2 and 3.

 

The 300 isn't where you're expected to finish gearing, it's not even where you're finally supposed to get a set bonus. It's just supposed to be an upper limit on the amount of playtime you need to get the next crate. So the developers apparently do believe that there is such a thing as, "too much grind."

 

The Galactic Command system has at least three core design goals, and it fulfills those goals very, very well.

 

• The first goal is to allow people to gear their characters with endgame appropriate gear by doing any of the endgame activities.
   
  
• The second goal is to use gear reward rates to encourage people to play a wide variety of endgame content.
   
  
• The third goal is to drastically increase the amount of played time it takes to gear a character in the top rated endgame gear compared to the past 3 expansions.
  

 

They hit solid homeruns on all three of those goals, though I think they could have been more efficient on number three. The drop rates on gear are so low that characters are unlikely to complete tier 1 and tier 2 gear sets before they get to the point where they are earning tier 3 gear. So instead of driving players to grind through 3 entire sets of gear, the system now pushes them to complete something like 1.3 to 1.7 sets of gear, depending on how unlucky the player is (basically if you have bad luck you get to skip tier 1 and tier 2. Should we be happy or sad about this?).

 

A small part of the problem with acceptance may be that people are only getting a few pieces of tier 1 and tier 2 before they hit tier 3. There's no moment of feeling that you've completed a beginner or intermediate set, it's just one long continuous grind.

 

TL;DR version. GC does not suck because of RNG, there was plenty of RNG in the old system. GC gearing sucks because it was carefully and effectively designed to be an extremely long grind. It does what it was meant to do, and it does it very well.

 

Where they came up with the idea that long time players, ie the core audience for endgame content, would like the extreme grind function of GC, I have no idea. Whoever their supplier for that idea was, they should return the idea as defective and try to get a refund.

 

In Ops I knew what I got. And as a team we farmed it as a group for gear and was planned who got was. So to say there was always RNG is not true for everyone. The problem again is RNG some people Are getting more gear through the supplementary processes than the main way. And increasing the grind when there is barely any content out means the people who accepted the dearth of content for easy gearing vs grinding in say WoW for more content. Now the choice is grind in swtor for bare bones content updates or grind in other MMOs for lots of content. They can't have it both ways. Either easy gearing or lots of content. Especially since this system fails at actual gear path instead of a major dissapojtnment and makes me log off to play FF.

Edited January 28, 2017 by FerkWork

[ShinDoRai]

They can't have it both ways. Either easy gearing or lots of content. Especially since this system fails at actual gear path instead of a major dissapojtnment and makes me log off to play FF.

 

u are a ture beliver arent ya.

i dont belive €A cant pay some more devs. they clearly wont invest, for what we already payed for since release.

otherwise it would be similar to wow, eso, ff or all good looking mmos out there , the same for us in swtor.

so we suffer now with this. the only meaningfull choise is to unsub and let them know how we think, or they continue this procedure on and on and on ...

even if it means we have to deal some years without a sw mmo. rather this, than continuing that BS with us. hard but fair.

 

ps.: remember what they gave us as compensation after that ******** with this same gearing after 1.0 hit. they put a vendor on the fleet with white crystals for a 2-3 week period until 1.2 hit ^^ cant wait what we get this time.

[DanNV]

PvE gearing in SWTOR has always been RNG, and it's not RNG that's the problem.

 

The implementation of RNG for GC is the problem. Whoever came up with the idea needs to have their head examined. Although I expect they figured it would go over fine since they used it for Heroic rewards and the Cartel crates. They seem to have forgotten that a lot of us stopped buying those when the RNG went crazy, too. (Another screw up they won't admit.)

[IstariZen]

The implementation of RNG for GC is the problem. Whoever came up with the idea needs to have their head examined. Although I expect they figured it would go over fine since they used it for Heroic rewards and the Cartel crates. They seem to have forgotten that a lot of us stopped buying those when the RNG went crazy, too. (Another screw up they won't admit.)

 

WHAT!?! RNG is in every RPG EVER!!!!

 

All from 2012:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=224181

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5286281

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=154566

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=153660

 

They go on forever, those are just the first 4 in a custom search from 2012.

 

Basically, your motives are questionable. You have said you are a founder?!? Whatever, RNG is common. Increasing the rewards will be fine, but RNG is not going anywhere.

Edited January 28, 2017 by IstariZen

[Groncho]

WHAT!?! RNG is in every RPG EVER!!!! What dont you understand DAN:

 

All from 2012:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=224181

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5286281

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=154566

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=153660

 

They go on forever, those are just the first 4 in a custom search from 2012.

 

Basically, your motives are questionable. You have said you are a founder?!? Whatever, RNG is common. Increasing the rewards will be fine, but RNG is not going anywhere.

 

yup between 1.0 and 1.8 they opened 180 new servers due to the RNG success

[IBFMABP]

Yes, the grind is too much and RNG isn't my favorite either but it wouldn't be so bad if we were getting crates at a decent rate. IMO the simplest solution would be to lower the amount of CXP required for each crate. One way of doing that would be to do away with the incremental increases for the next crate and instead switch it to a static number. I haven't put a great deal of thought into this yet, but i was thinking it would be something like 1000 CXP per tier one, 2000 for 2nd and 3000 per for 3rd. I genuinely feel this would help a great deal, sure it doesn't fix all the probs, but it is a start. Another thing that would help is to make the crates more rewarding, When i spend 2 hours to get a crate and theres noting of use in the crate it really kills motivation to get the next crate. It could be Comp gifts(imo each crate should drop a stack of 5-10 grd 5/6 gifts, not just a possibility of getting one measly gift) maybe even have a chance at cxp boosts in the crates. The point is EVERY crate needs to give players something useful. Real changes are needed asap.

[DanNV]

WHAT!?! RNG is in every RPG EVER!!!! What dont you understand DAN:

 

You are being purposely being obtuse. You know exactly what RNG I am talking about.

[DanNV]

Yes, the grind is too much and RNG isn't my favorite either but it wouldn't be so bad if we were getting crates at a decent rate.

 

As long as it stays you might, maybe get a piece of gear and it might, maybe be useful, it doesn't matter how fast they drop, you still can't be sure you'll get the gear you need for the content you want to run. Speeding it up still doesn't fix the fact that you might get 600 crates and not have a 6 piece set bonus. It's possible you won't have any, although the chance of that is slim, I hope. GC is no fun, it's frustrating and infuriating and it gets worse the more crates you open. No thanks. If I want to play something like that, I'll go drop quarters in a slot machine.

[ShinDoRai]

it is already stated out on t3-m4 from some ppl beyond 400 level of cxp that u are not guaranteed to get a set with bis gear after this BS grind

dont fight over this crap system that rewards nobody. its only scam

why u are so defending it or thinking u get anything out of this.

i dont touch swtor till its gone or changed to a drop rate that give me rewards in that way where i was pre 5.0

simple as that

[IstariZen]

:):):):):) Edited January 28, 2017 by IstariZen

[IstariZen]

it is already stated out on t3-m4 from some ppl beyond 400 level of cxp that u are not guaranteed to get a set with bis gear after this BS grind

dont fight over this crap system that rewards nobody. its only scam

why u are so defending it or thinking u get anything out of this.

i dont touch swtor till its gone or changed to a drop rate that give me rewards in that way where i was pre 5.0

simple as that

 

PVP and OPS are a 100% guarantee. PVP drops currency to buy pieces and OPS drop the gear itself (a token to exchange for gear off a boss)

Edited January 28, 2017 by IstariZen

[DanNV]

No dude. You are.

 

Congratulations, you have made a very short list, you are now on ignore. Go troll somewhere else.

[IstariZen]

........ Edited January 28, 2017 by IstariZen

[IBFMABP]

As long as it stays you might, maybe get a piece of gear and it might, maybe be useful, it doesn't matter how fast they drop, you still can't be sure you'll get the gear you need for the content you want to run. Speeding it up still doesn't fix the fact that you might get 600 crates and not have a 6 piece set bonus. It's possible you won't have any, although the chance of that is slim, I hope. GC is no fun, it's frustrating and infuriating and it gets worse the more crates you open. No thanks. If I want to play something like that, I'll go drop quarters in a slot machine.

 

Like i said I don't like anything about RNG, unfortunately its highly unlikely it's going anywhere anytime soon if ever. So we will have to find a way to lessen the frustrations some way within the current system. 5.1 alleviates some of those issues you raise, it's just not enough. Should they increase the rate at which crates are earned coupled with a increase in drop rates for gear or lower the amount of tokens needed to purchase gear that's some meaningful change would you not agree?

[ShinDoRai]

PVP and OPS are a 100% guarantee. PVP drops currency to buy pieces and OPS drop the gear itself (a token to exchange for gear off a boss)

 

are you guys just complaining and not even playing...

 

That is the result of constructive feedback, instead of mindless hate.

 

why should i care if they try to return to the old system only with a fresh new currency, but keep the old system now from 5.0 where u still need to grind out a level of CXP to be able to buy higher tier of gear !?

 

makes no sense. it only slows ppl down.

and that ammount of pieces u need to buy one item of gear is primal high.

so casuals are fxcked up cos of time vs rewards

raiders invested time vs reward

pvper scammed cos of nerfing the **** out of pvp rewards vs time.

 

when u think about 4.0 gearing u started as casual in pvp for example.u ding max level and had quest gear. in one day (frequently popping for 5 hours ) u could get the 1st tier in pvp. wich was good for decent hc fp runs to get decent gear and crystals to buy medicore pve gear for sm raids. i know we vets didnt care much about sm fps or pvp gear to be able to fight through pve hc content. we skipp that and jump dircetly into hc.where we got 100% loot on every boss.

 

now u only have a 100% drop on the last boss. some are already complaining they only got loot from the last one while other groups got drops in between. but all in this dumb system require a minimum cxp level, to be able to buy things from vendors.

so lowering the drop rate from bosses ( RNG ) and rolling for it if something drop 1/8 or 1/16 + restrictions on cxp to be able to get things from vendors change nothing. and also thinking of drops in CXP-RNG-Boxes is the thrill of the hunt over 2-5 year old content without any new stuff ?

castrated mini fps/tacticals/eternal championship and starfortress dont count for raiders. even with diffrent difficulties.

this hole 5.0 attempt was only made to let players play more for less to pay more for less.

 

and thinking about the new op comming with 5.2 or something like that with every 60 days a new boss change nothing. the first boss still have the lowest droprate and have not 100% drop rates. and by the end of the year u played the hole stuff wich u played through the last years. but you cant archive maybe a full bis gear or even think about gearing twinks.

that's the butt hurt part

[IstariZen]

why should i care if they try to return to the old system only with a fresh new currency, but keep the old system now from 5.0 where u still need to grind out a level of CXP to be able to buy higher tier of gear !?

 

makes no sense. it only slows ppl down.

and that ammount of pieces u need to buy one item of gear is primal high.

so casuals are fxcked up cos of time vs rewards

raiders invested time vs reward

pvper scammed cos of nerfing the **** out of pvp rewards vs time.

 

when u think about 4.0 gearing u started as casual in pvp for example.u ding max level and had quest gear. in one day (frequently popping for 5 hours ) u could get the 1st tier in pvp. wich was good for decent hc fp runs to get decent gear and crystals to buy medicore pve gear for sm raids. i know we vets didnt care much about sm fps or pvp gear to be able to fight through pve hc content. we skipp that and jump dircetly into hc.where we got 100% loot on every boss.

 

now u only have a 100% drop on the last boss. some are already complaining they only got loot from the last one while other groups got drops in between. but all in this dumb system require a minimum cxp level, to be able to buy things from vendors.

so lowering the drop rate from bosses ( RNG ) and rolling for it if something drop 1/8 or 1/16 + restrictions on cxp to be able to get things from vendors change nothing. and also thinking of drops in CXP-RNG-Boxes is the thrill of the hunt over 2-5 year old content without any new stuff ?

castrated mini fps/tacticals/eternal championship and starfortress dont count for raiders. even with diffrent difficulties.

this hole 5.0 attempt was only made to let players play more for less to pay more for less.

 

and thinking about the new op comming with 5.2 or something like that with every 60 days a new boss change nothing. the first boss still have the lowest droprate and have not 100% drop rates. and by the end of the year u played the hole stuff wich u played through the last years. but you cant archive maybe a full bis gear or even think about gearing twinks.

that's the butt hurt part

 

They are clearly making strides to adjust this stuff. They asked for as much feedback as possible (feedback, not complaints). The grind may be a little bit much, but with a little bit of tweaking it can actually be an amazing system, especially if it allows new content to compliment the old.

Edited January 28, 2017 by IstariZen